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View Full Version : How many fly the 109 K-4c3 online



blackpulpit1970
03-20-2006, 12:50 PM
Just curious how many fly her online and what are your thoughts and tactics. There really is only one gun and that is the 108 so to use it effectively you really need a good shot, preferably a deflection shot. What are some of your tactics you use for the plane to get a good shot in. She climbs real well and is fast so im curious as to what is needed to get that one good shot in for the kill. I usually try to enrgy fight in this plane and it takes some practice to do as well as patience, my plane of choice is the 190 but i also like to fly this one, any thoughts or advice?

TX-Zen
03-20-2006, 01:16 PM
Not me, I quit flying the 109 back in AEP, plus the 190 has always been my favorite ride. I like the climbrate on the K4, but imho it's on the same overmodelled side as the La7 and so I feel somewhat embarrased to fly it.

One thing I do not like about how the handling has changed are the stiff elevators and poor high speed handling, plus the roll rate has never impressed me. All that might indeed be more realistic, but any plane with those characteristics is never a good one for me (except the A6M series, which I really adore in a **** plane sort of way).

Lastly, while I'm kicking the poor 109 so much, I don't like MG+108 as the only armament option...MG's are less than effective in general and the 108 is too hard to hit with, plus there's not enough rounds imho. I vastly prefer 2xMG151/20 over MGs+108 because they are more accurate, lethal enough and better at longer ranges if need be, in particular for high angle deflection shots.

Bout the only thing the 109 has that I like is climb rate, otherwise it's just not my cup of chai. I did fly it alot in IL2 original and liked the FM way better back then, but since AEP it's shifted more towards a turn fighter and so I've lost interest.

Still looks menacing though and for that I'll always appreciate it.

blackpulpit1970
03-20-2006, 01:27 PM
Always nice to hear your input Zen, to the point and honest. I agree on all of your points, its a hard plane to get kills in it, for me i can only get kills when the enemy gives me his wings open to me (deflection shot). I love the climb but now with the new spit it doesnt help very much for me personally. It is a good stalker type plane for waiting over a furball and bouncing an enemy completing his loop or high turn which opens up a shot. Thanks for your input Zen. By the way Zen you have any dora tracks you could send me thru PM mate?

faustnik
03-20-2006, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by TX-Zen:

One thing I do not like about how the handling has changed are the stiff elevators and poor high speed handling.

This really makes it tough for me in the Bf109s.

TX-Zen
03-20-2006, 01:41 PM
I have a few new ones, but nothing to write home about really. I stopped recording regular tracks of my online flying a while ago and haven't gotten back into the habit of it, but I can look around and see what I have if you like.

On the 109, I think these days its more suited for TnB rather than BnZ, at least for the way I fly which is to come in at 700-800km/h+ in the Dora. I find the 109 hard to control at those speeds, which while not really a true flaw of the 109, is something that doesn't suit my flying preferences. For mid to low alt mixed furballing all versions of the 109 seems great, especially the uber turn-y G2, because these days its hard for anyone to accelerate out of a dogfight. No one can really outdive anyone else, so the best you can hope for is to fly as close to 1000km/h as you can and pray the other guy breaks up first, otherwise by not diving so fast you both end up down on the deck in more or less the same E relationship that you had higher up.

(Which tends to mean its best to stick it out in the dogfight rather than try to accelerate for an advantage)

AKA_TAGERT
03-20-2006, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
This really makes it tough for me in the Bf109s. Yet realistic

faustnik
03-20-2006, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
This really makes it tough for me in the Bf109s. Yet realistic </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, I wasn't saying it was unrealistic, just not good. The Fw190s are just far superior at high speeds.

waffen-79
03-20-2006, 02:31 PM
me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Allied_Killer
03-20-2006, 02:44 PM
Realistic or not, I've never flown a real 109 so I really don't know. But I do have the trim wheel under my thumb so stiff elevators do not bother me too much.

I've been flying the 109s as of lately as it is more of a challenge to stay a live in a 109 than the 190. All it takes is a couple of .50 cal hits on the wings and the performance goes out the door (actually, same on the 190s too).
But 109s are more fragile and delicate than the 190s and currently I'm enjoying the challenge it presents against the 25lb Spits and the Tempest.

Lordbutter4
03-20-2006, 09:21 PM
Never really got too into the Fw's. There just to simplistic to fly for me. Theres much more satisfaction out of flying a g6 in a server full of spits and getting 3 kills a sortie. They still have relativly good speed, great dive, outstanding climb. It just comes down to making sure you know what you are fighting against and how to handle it.

mynameisroland
03-21-2006, 04:14 AM
It is more rewarding for me to fight in a Fw 190 A5 and get 3 kills against Spitfire IXs tahn in a Bf 109 G6. In the G6 you have the Mk 108 option and can actually hang with Spitfires. In the A5 you rely on good deflection shooting and energy management.

Vike
03-21-2006, 05:14 AM
Please,this is a 109 K thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

I prefer the 109s over any Fw190s,Roland who knows me,can tell you for ages,but i won't make a tirade to say why. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


Originally posted by blackpulpit1970:
Just curious how many fly her online and what are your thoughts and tactics. There really is only one gun and that is the 108 so to use it effectively you really need a good shot, preferably a deflection shot. What are some of your tactics you use for the plane to get a good shot in. She climbs real well and is fast so im curious as to what is needed to get that one good shot in for the kill. I usually try to enrgy fight in this plane and it takes some practice to do as well as patience, my plane of choice is the 190 but i also like to fly this one, any thoughts or advice?

If your target move a lot,get as close as possible,and "leech" it with your MGs (that are 13mm caliber,which is sufficient to break wings on La7s and Spitfires,using a correct convergence http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )
Then,when close enough,use your MK108 with parsimony.
Never make continued bursts with the MK108,just make "shoot by shoot" burst and look if it hits.
And continue to get as close as you can.
Don't forget the K4/C3 has a 2000HP engine,and that it is among the fatest plane in the game.(~600kp/h at SLevel).
Don't also forget that the 109 is "├╝ber" in maneuvrability under 450km/h,so make the necessary to slow down your target http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BTW,you absolutely cannot use the 109K gunnery like on a Fw190D.
Its shells are slower and less numerous;
That implies you've to be patient;But the kill is so violent...OMG! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hope it helps you.

@+

blackpulpit1970
03-21-2006, 05:50 AM
Do you feel the G6as is a better all around 109 than the K-4, the 20mm is a good gun with more ammo and better for deflection and straight shooting?

Vike
03-21-2006, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by blackpulpit1970:
Do you feel the G6as is a better all around 109 than the K-4, the 20mm is a good gun with more ammo and better for deflection and straight shooting?

In this 4.04m patch,our G6AS (aka G14AS) is faster than the K4/B4 but slower than the K4/C3.

Some details:
Top Speed at Sea Level with MW50 at 5m alt,with closed rads (Crimea map):

-K4/C3=>598Km/h
-G6AS=>591Km/h
-K4/B4=>586km/h

The G6AS Mg151/20mm permits you to shoot from a far distance,as the projectile velocity will create an almost flat trajectory.
Moreover,errors of appreciation during the aim and shoot won't be dramatic (200 20mm shells);
Whereas the Kurfurst will oblige you to shoot closer,with less shells (65 30mm shells),and remember that the 30mm velocity is "only" 540m/s (~2000kp/h) which create an arched trajectory...

In order to "train" in the 1944/45 scenarios,yes take the G6AS to see how to handle the beast,and try to make what i said to you above.Then,when you'll trust completely your machine,jump into the K4/C3.
With experience,you'll find it sharper than the G6AS at close range,thanks to its AWESOME rate of fire (10+ 30mm shells per seconds http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif ) and its 2000HP engine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

@+

JG52Karaya-X
03-21-2006, 06:39 AM
Our Mk108s have a rate of fire of ~8 shells per second. There was a faster firing Mk108 in use on all such equipped aircraft starting in late '44 with about 10-12 shells per second but we dont have it ingame (I guess I'd like the slower firing better anyway - higher ROF = higher chance of wasting ammo IMO)

Brain32
03-21-2006, 06:59 AM
There is only one 109 for late scenarios for me - 109g6AS. K4 is IMO too stiff for BnZ and too heavy for slow(er) fighting. It could be a great ground pounder though...

danjama
03-21-2006, 08:45 AM
I fly a baby camel with H2o boost and sherbert stuffed up his nozzles, works great except in dive, he tends to close his eyes causing the ride to get a bit hectic for a while, grabbing his ears and rearing back real hard seems to do the trick, but i think this needs fixing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Bremspropeller
03-21-2006, 09:12 AM
RBJ does.

WOLFMondo
03-21-2006, 09:37 AM
Turning and burning on the deck like a dog chasing its tail was never my kind of thing :P

TheGozr
03-21-2006, 12:38 PM
Well some good exercices is to fly in the "NormandieNiemen" server ( on HyperLobby ) where yak's and some Russians aircrafts are fighting Axis planes. That is where the good battles happens.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Want challenges ?

blackpulpit1970
03-21-2006, 02:09 PM
Is that an open cockpit server? if so forget it thats not flying to me, if it is closed then i will try it out.

TheGozr
03-21-2006, 02:51 PM
Ho yes it's a closed cockpit pretty close to full switch actually.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Vike
03-21-2006, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by blackpulpit1970:
Is that an open cockpit server? if so forget it thats not flying to me, if it is closed then i will try it out.

Come to UKDed2 BlackPulpit,there is a place for you;
-Full realism settings trial- with very good maps in a good ambiance. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Moreover,if you're located in Europe,UK-Ded2 is among the best places to play!

Look at this thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7051005524) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

@+

blackpulpit1970
03-21-2006, 07:13 PM
Great will do for sure thanks.

jermin122
03-21-2006, 08:57 PM
K4C3 is the only 109 that can fight with late Allied A/Cs. Flying 109 needs more skills than that of 190 cuz its an energy fighter. And its dot is the biggest of fighters in the game, so it is a little harder for 109 to survive. 109 has a number of different tactics which others don't, so it is a great challenge and fun to fly 109. Deflection shoot is a skill you must grasp. Also, you should have very good SA. And you should know how to do the complex engine management. As for me, I love to cuise at above 5km and sneak the enemy climbers. Dive from his high six and shoot him from below. Do NOT cut back throttle when diving. After every attack, keep shallow climb to get back to initial alt and prepare for another attack. Remember, DO NOT spend too much time on every attack, be efficient, 109's engine overheats easily.

TX-Zen
03-21-2006, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Flying 109 needs more skills than that of 190 cuz its an energy fighter.

I must disagree completely with this.

109 can always turn it's way out of trouble against most aircraft, but thats not an option for the 190. Against late war allied fighters, the antons are only suitable for BnZ but it takes a LOT of skill to handle a dora in close against most planes...way way more than the 109 requires.

jermin122
03-21-2006, 10:08 PM
Most tactics 190 uses are HnR and BnZ and it is much easier for 190 to survive. e.g., if a 190 encounters a P51 and a spitfire it can easily outrun the two, and its dot is very small. But it's not necessarily the case for 109. HnR and BnZ are just part of 109's tatics. E-fighting includes both of them. And if 109 work in pair, it can do much more things while 190 can't.

Max.Power
03-21-2006, 11:12 PM
In this situation, dependant on the Bf-109 model, the escape would be to spiral climb away.

jermin122
03-21-2006, 11:19 PM
Not exactly in this version, spit now climbs like rocket. And spiral climb requires enough distance. Above 6km 109 loses its climbing advantages.

Ratsack
03-22-2006, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
This really makes it tough for me in the Bf109s. Yet realistic </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, I wasn't saying it was unrealistic, just not good. The Fw190s are just far superior at high speeds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting how the dyed-in-the-wool Wurger flyers have the same view of the 109's high speed behaviour. I'm with you and Tex-Zen on this one.


Ratsack