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JtD
06-28-2006, 01:12 PM
I just checked the Vc Spitfire out and found that the virtual eye (our in cockpit perspective) is like a meter above the 3-d plane model cockpit. Luckily the entire cockpit model has also been moved up this far, so we only notice that we cannot see the engine. I have been pointing out problems like this about 3 years ago with other planes, but have been told off to stop spreading wrong facts. Sadly there were no lights to use for triangulation. Now there are. Looks like I wasn't wrong.

Are there any plans for BoB that "No externals" actually means no externals?

http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/v0.jpg http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/v1.jpg
http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/v2.jpg http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/v3.jpg

JtD
06-28-2006, 01:12 PM
I just checked the Vc Spitfire out and found that the virtual eye (our in cockpit perspective) is like a meter above the 3-d plane model cockpit. Luckily the entire cockpit model has also been moved up this far, so we only notice that we cannot see the engine. I have been pointing out problems like this about 3 years ago with other planes, but have been told off to stop spreading wrong facts. Sadly there were no lights to use for triangulation. Now there are. Looks like I wasn't wrong.

Are there any plans for BoB that "No externals" actually means no externals?

http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/v0.jpg http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/v1.jpg
http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/v2.jpg http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/v3.jpg

AVG_WarHawk
06-28-2006, 06:42 PM
OMG! We've been snookered http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Actually you didn't show the exterior view forward lights (white lights)aligned, but they appear to be in correct alignment for proper cockpit view. Which makes this even more puzzling. You should make that .mis file available for download, so others can confirm your findings.

JtD
06-28-2006, 10:32 PM
The white lights are hidden under the nose in forward view, as you look upward.

You can make that mission yourself, alt of lights is 2.5 meters.

Foo.bar
06-28-2006, 11:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">OMG! We've been snookered </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The only thing JtD wanted to say is that a pilot is sitting 1 meter higher in cockpit than in external view. and that is a good research, in my eyes. good work, JtD.

Waldo.Pepper
06-29-2006, 12:15 AM
Hmm - that's quite clever.

AVG_WarHawk
06-29-2006, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Foo.bar:
The only thing JtD wanted to say is that a pilot is sitting 1 meter higher in cockpit than in external view. and that is a good research, in my eyes. good work, JtD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm fully aware of this. What I meant by the statement you quoted was; why would the creator of this sim do that?

BenQ-the-Hawk
06-30-2006, 04:58 AM
quite interesting
is this with every plane or only Spit?

JtD
06-30-2006, 06:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AVG_WarHawk:

What I meant by the statement you quoted was; why would the creator of this sim do that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Three years ago I was told there is no reason to do that, but there are several to not do that. So I was wrong.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">is this with every plane or only Spit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is different with every plane, and this Spit seems to be worst by far. However, many planes seem to have a notable margin of error.

zaelu
06-30-2006, 08:57 AM
All looks like a compromise. Does this affect the balance of the game? Or the gameplay itself?

It would be interesting for testing those to be able to drag those lights after you in dogfight and see if what you see is what you supose to see (in both situations... as hunter and as prey).

Nevertheless I am shure Oleg and the team had to do some comprimises as the viewport in game is quite.... unnatural in the end. Remember those small portions in the cockpits of some planes (FW190, BF110, etc) that dissapear when viewed at some angles because of some invisible minimum distance of rendering?

Another thing. I'm still wondering how Oleg managed to make a cockpit (actualy all) to look so realistic and not distorted in oposition with ED team that made the cockpits from Lock On. Maybe this is one of the reasons for this "anomaly".

P.S. Do you remember the weapons in Quake 3 Arena were much bigger when floating just to make them apear "normal" while seen from player eyes?

Blackjack174
06-30-2006, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">e interesting for testing those to be able to drag those lights after you in dogfight and see if what you see is what you supose to see (in both situations... as hunter and as prey).

Nevertheless I a </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

or Position the lights in the exact same spot of the position lights , so from inside when you turn on the lights u will see the error way more clearly , have to test that out with some airplanes...


EDIT: tested with seafire , placed 2 white lights EXACTLY where the nav lights are in external view, they are at exact same position in cockpit view, what am I missing ?

JtD
06-30-2006, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zaelu:
All looks like a compromise. Does this affect the balance of the game? Or the gameplay itself? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WW2 fighter had a quality that was called "view over the nose/engine". In FB it is more like "view over the bar that holds the armored windshield". Eventually, some planes benefit because the raised seating position offers a better view over the nose than the plane historically had.

Bremspropeller
06-30-2006, 12:42 PM
Does deflection-shooting ring a bell ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

tomtheyak
06-30-2006, 12:59 PM
Posted about this many months ago in the now defunct Bug Reporting Thread and sent an email to 1C but no reply.

Interesting new angle for displaying the problem. I compared to view from Vb:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/tomtheyak/Cockpitcomparison-starboard.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/tomtheyak/Cockpitcomparison-rearstarboard.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/tomtheyak/Cockpitcomparison.jpg

Blackjack174
06-30-2006, 03:12 PM
Ah so the Spitfire bug is known and I think it was commented from oleg that it will stay that way... (beats me why they cant correct it via all that pay per addon, wouldnt take so much additional space?!?)
But you talk about other planes , which planes have such an huge error?
Dont recall seeing any other extremes like this.

EDIT: splelling http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG53Frankyboy
07-01-2006, 03:11 AM
yes, that the Vc will not be fixed is a pitty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

espacially it was already done with other of Nymes Spitmodells when they were released- cant remember exactly if it was Seafire or MkVIII or both.

JtD
07-01-2006, 06:14 AM
TomtheYak, what you present is actually the observation I made which eventually prompted me to make that a little more precise measuring. I was wondering where my cannons and the prop were gone...

Blackjack, the Vc Spit has imho by far the largest margin of error, with other planes it is not a question of several feet, but a question of some/several inches.

BerkshireHunt
07-03-2006, 03:50 PM
I recall Oleg saying many months ago that the Vc cockpit was arranged like this due to "errors in third party 3D model". And furthermore that, "we will not correct it because 3D model would have to be altered and we have simply no time". (You know the score by now).
As far as he's concerned he has dealt with the issue - and that's doubtless why he won't respond to any more questions about it.

AVG_WarHawk
07-13-2006, 08:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BerkshireHunt:
I recall Oleg saying many months ago that the Vc cockpit was arranged like this due to "errors in third party 3D model". And furthermore that, "we will not correct it because 3D model would have to be altered and we have simply no time". (You know the score by now).
As far as he's concerned he has dealt with the issue - and that's doubtless why he won't respond to any more questions about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, just one more among many reasons he's usually so strict about accurate modeling.

starfighter1
07-14-2006, 01:04 AM
hi,
indeed a main problem at every fligtsim virtual view design,
even in combatsims where the combatview works parallel with the internal virtual camera view of the game view engine.

I wonder if there is no success in this field http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

remember this old discussion about pilot's view
in FW-190 series.

It's not only a problem of 'wrong designed bars' (at FW 190 ex)
in general it's a problem of different types of
plane cockpits and the correct height of pilot's
view at different virtual views even in combat view with several designed gyroscopes/revis in
different warbirds.

hope we can expect an adjustable pilot's seat in height and a well compatibility to TrackIR 3D vector expansion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Nubarus
07-14-2006, 07:43 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/tomtheyak/Cockpitcomparison-starboard.jpg

Actually, the difference in hight from the wing tips to the horizon are due to the fact that the wings on the Vc are too short.

It's pretty obvious since you cannot see the cannons from inside the pit.

The nose is also missing as well.

Because of all this bad modeling I never fly the Spit Vc............. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Griff0
07-16-2006, 03:07 AM
Good Find. I wish I didn't know now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

starfighter1
07-17-2006, 02:16 AM
hi,
a study of original film documents (me-109,FW-190, P-47)
is helpfull http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/388104122/m/9191035004/p/6

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6480/ndvd0171bc.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/937/ndvd5186it.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5476/ndvd3942eq.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1381/ndvd0184qu.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/9938/ndvd2334ar.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6870/ndvd0948jj.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7428/ndvd0248mm.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3662/ndvd3909sq.jpg


http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/2455/ndvd0431gs.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/7006/ndvd0657dd.jpg

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/153/ndvd0352rj.jpg

Aaron_GT
07-18-2006, 02:53 PM
I wonder why, if the Vc model was a problem but the Vb model relatively ok, the Vb model couldn't have been used and have the modifications (extra cannon stubs, tropical filter) added?

starfighter1
07-26-2006, 12:25 PM
hi,
Tip http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
make some inside screeshots of Spit and other
planes like P-47, P-51, P-38 and FW-190 in
'Targetware' and you see the different of well
and accurate design of virtual pilot hight of view(and combatview)
in combatsims of WW-II http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nubarus:

Actually, the difference in hight from the wing tips to the horizon are due to the fact that the wings on the Vc are too short.

It's pretty obvious since you cannot see the cannons from inside the pit.

The nose is also missing as well.

Because of all this bad modeling I never fly the Spit Vc............. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>