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Bearcat99
10-19-2006, 01:53 PM
How about having a section in the arming screen where you can have multiple stick profiles.... you know like you do with Joy to Key or IL2 sticks.. or the stick editor in IL2 Manager5... but built into the arming screen... that way you could change it on the fly. As it is now, even though I have multiple stick profiles for different planes... I have to either know beforew hand what I will be flying or once I find out what the mission is leave, set the profile accordingly, and come in through the back door. It would be greast to have the aility to have 3-5 presets that I could name and set... just like the pilot & plane skins... in each arming scrren. Whattya think? Is it doable for BoB? Or maybe even in a final patch for FB? The software is there already..... just a matter of implementing it into the sim andchangeing the GUI. Or implementing it in BoB before it is released. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Brain32
10-19-2006, 05:25 PM
Awsome idea and IMO badly needed, especialy for people that like to switch planes very often http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Bearcat99
10-19-2006, 09:49 PM
Yes and considering that between the P-51, P-47 and say the 190... each could use a different stick profile.... at least for me...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WOLFMondo
10-20-2006, 04:50 AM
Bah! I suggested this yonks ago :P

It would be the best addition to the way user profiles work in BoB over IL2.

I'd like a generic profile that all planes use, an option to have a custom profile for each plane and a default profile for each plane.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

Manu-6S
10-20-2006, 05:13 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Bah! I suggested this yonks ago :P

It would be the best addition to the way user profiles work in BoB over IL2.

I'd like a generic profile that all planes use, an option to have a custom profile for each plane and a default profile for each plane.

Yes I remember.

Something like the setups in the racing sims. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Diablo310th
10-20-2006, 06:40 AM
Bear...I like the idea too but like Mondo said....this request has been around a long time. I would love to see it implemented into FB.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Philipscdrw
10-20-2006, 06:46 AM
Would it be better implemented as a third-party joystick driver?

It seems that it's hard work to make upgrades to the Il-2 interface - if joystick manufacturers/interested amateurs would make joystick configuration programs, which can interface between the joystick and the Il-2 application, all you'd need to do is set all the sensitivity settings to 100 in Il-2 and task-switch to the joystick config manager to change the settings there.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WOLFMondo
10-20-2006, 10:27 AM
NOOOOOOO!!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Some sticks will allow you to do that already. I can profile my CH stick to have more than one setup but I much prefer having one configuration for the stick itself via the CH control manager which I never touch. This profile allows full control over each axis and self centring. Then I can go into Lomac or FB and customise, rather than being confused when my FW190 profile is selected by I'm flying an F15 in lomac.

I really would not want to have to make a profile for each plane with the stick software, simply because I'll have to click through the profiles each time when I choose my plane, in another application outside of FB, I'd rather have profiles within the sim. Imagin having 229 profiles for FB which I have to click through to select one, and then have to alt tab out to double check I have the right one because all the profiles are in a 3rd party app.

I would be far easier to have a setup for each plane. Along with skins, pilot, loadout, fuel etc you have a screen like you do at the moment for the stick setup but for each plane. This would allow complete customisation of each plane or in fact multiple setups for each plane you could select when choosing your ride.

This would be such a great addition to the new sim.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

LEBillfish
10-20-2006, 12:24 PM
I seem to be disagreeing with you a lot Bearcat, hope it's not a trend http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Anywho.........I disagree.

IMLTHO, joystick profiles should not be set up per plane, yet one time to compensate for the bazillion variables of a user........Hand placement, throw of the stick, over/under reacting as in motion and smoothness, on and on.

In that way you are configuring how you work with your mechanical stick. Now past that, if you took X pilot and put him in Y plane, he'd fly it best as he could considering his skill in the plane and how well he can handle it........YET, put him in Z plane, and he may have trouble till he learns of the plane. They do not go in and magically retune the control surfaces, and handling capabilities of Z plane to match Y plane..........The pilot must simply learn how to fly it.

That's what multiple profiles actually does. It compensates for a virtual pilots lack of experience/skill with various aircraft. If you fly a Ki-43, and turn tight, it may work fine, try the same manuever in a 190 not compensting by how you fly it and you'll stall and fall.

Now it is just a "game".........So anyone can do whatever they want.........Yet to have it be a "simulation", where you must learn the various traits of each aircraft also giving you further advantage seeing the clear differences.....Then you just set the stick up to compensate for your to its incompatibility.

If you do it the other way, A spit flies like a Ki-43, flies like a 190, flies like a I-16, and so on.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Bearcat99
10-20-2006, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Bah! I suggested this yonks ago :P

Well whoop de friggin do.... bend over so I can give you yer medal... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


It would be the best addition to the way user profiles work in BoB over IL2.
I'd like a generic profile that all planes use, an option to have a custom profile for each plane and a default profile for each plane..

Id be happy with just being able to call up any 3-5 presets..... just like skins. I dont think we'd need more than that.


Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
NOOOOOOO!!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Some sticks will allow you to do that already. I can profile my CH stick to have more than one setup but I much prefer having one configuration for the stick itself via the CH control manager which I never touch. This profile allows full control over each axis and self centring. Then I can go into Lomac or FB and customise, rather than being confused when my FW190 profile is selected by I'm flying an F15 in lomac.
I really would not want to have to make a profile for each plane with the stick software, simply because I'll have to click through the profiles each time when I choose my plane, in another application outside of FB, I'd rather have profiles within the sim. Imagin having 229 profiles for FB which I have to click through to select one, and then have to alt tab out to double check I have the right one because all the profiles are in a 3rd party app.
I would be far easier to have a setup for each plane. Along with skins, pilot, loadout, fuel etc you have a screen like you do at the moment for the stick setup but for each plane. This would allow complete customisation of each plane or in fact multiple setups for each plane you could select when choosing your ride.
This would be such a great addition to the new sim.

What I am talking about is sim specific... it wouldnt have any effect on any other sim..... and would be directly related to the stick settings that are found in the rts joystick section of the config file. Basically it would be all the settings now found in IL2 sticks.. just built into the arming screen.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Anywho.........I disagree.

IMLTHO, joystick profiles should not be set up per plane, yet one time to compensate for the bazillion variables of a user........Hand placement, throw of the stick, over/under reacting as in motion and smoothness, on and on.

In that way you are configuring how you work with your mechanical stick. Now past that, if you took X pilot and put him in Y plane, he'd fly it best as he could considering his skill in the plane and how well he can handle it........YET, put him in Z plane, and he may have trouble till he learns of the plane. They do not go in and magically retune the control surfaces, and handling capabilities of Z plane to match Y plane..........The pilot must simply learn how to fly it.

That's what multiple profiles actually does. It compensates for a virtual pilots lack of experience/skill with various aircraft. If you fly a Ki-43, and turn tight, it may work fine, try the same manuever in a 190 not compensting by how you fly it and you'll stall and fall.

Now it is just a "game".........So anyone can do whatever they want.........Yet to have it be a "simulation", where you must learn the various traits of each aircraft also giving you further advantage seeing the clear differences.....Then you just set the stick up to compensate for your to its incompatibility.

If you do it the other way, A spit flies like a Ki-43, flies like a 190, flies like a I-16, and so on.

I dont think so.... I think the stick settings still do not change the overall FMs of each plane. You can fiddle with sticksettings all you want but low and slow a Pony will stall quicker than a Zero.. the stick settings will just allow you to compensate for things like the questionable elebvator authority on the P-51... indeed that is how many folks solved the stalling out problem.... by adjusting the stick it hasnt given them any added maneuverablity.. it just made it harder to stall the plane.. but that is because a certain amount of control is absent with the tweaked stick forces... Do you understand what I mean? It isnt adding to the FM of the plane. I understand what you are saying..... and for the most part I agree... but I just dont think the two viewpoints are mutually exclusive....<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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LEBillfish
10-20-2006, 09:47 PM
That's not entirely true.......It does "not" change the FM of the plane in any way, however it does change the limits, and reaction of control surfaces. So a plane that perhaps in real life was extremely manueveranle meaning it was probably extremely unstable.......You can make very stable and though losing some manueverability, naturally losing the ability to stall it easily.

What you lose in the end is the potential difference between planes.............and we have known some here who say dedicate themselves to very trainrail type zoom and boom because they have quite frankly detuned the stick inputs..........

Again that's fine if you want to "game the game", I'd personally rather fly a simulation.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Bearcat99
10-21-2006, 01:38 AM
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one....<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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heywooood
10-21-2006, 01:06 PM
yes - a couple of quick j/s profiles that could be selected from either arming or pilot profile as part of the 'controls' setup deal would be a nice new feature.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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tagTaken2
10-21-2006, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Again that's fine if you want to "game the game", I'd personally rather fly a simulation.

We all do that to some extent... if you know where the damage boxes are, you aim at them. I abuse slider trim against the ai because I can. BoB should be a gigantic leap forward in fidelity, but unless you're exploiting a software bug, the gulf between reality and gaming is that of waking/dreaming. Why enforce artificial rules over enjoyment and useability?

LEBillfish
10-22-2006, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by tagTaken2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Again that's fine if you want to "game the game", I'd personally rather fly a simulation.

We all do that to some extent... if you know where the damage boxes are, you aim at them. I abuse slider trim against the ai because I can. BoB should be a gigantic leap forward in fidelity, but unless you're exploiting a software bug, the gulf between reality and gaming is that of waking/dreaming. Why enforce artificial rules over enjoyment and useability? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

nope sorry.....guess i'm the odd one out again, don't do it as i fly online and fairplay is paramount.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WWMaxGunz
10-22-2006, 01:06 AM
How does this relate to your RL experiences with trim TagTaken?
Trim is capable of very fine control by how it works.
And it HOLDS in place also by how it works.
Very fine and very smooth but also very slow to make.

WOLFMondo
10-22-2006, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:


I dont think so.... I think the stick settings still do not change the overall FMs of each plane. You can fiddle with sticksettings all you want but low and slow a Pony will stall quicker than a Zero.. the stick settings will just allow you to compensate for things like the questionable elebvator authority on the P-51... indeed that is how many folks solved the stalling out problem....

The P51 is the best example of why this option would be great in BoB. My settings for the P51 are toned down, especially on the elevator and rudder so its stable and doesn't wobble, however using those same settings on the FW190 A6 means its impractical to fly.

There isn't much reason not to have plane profiles allowing customised controls for each aircraft. If you don't want to use them then ignore them but if you do it gives you that extra level of detail and customisation.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

Bearcat99
10-22-2006, 10:35 AM
Yeah... the P-51 was the main one that got me thinking on that... although.. how do you use the stick settings to get rid of the wobble? I always thought that was rlated to gun recoil. Also.. the fact that we have this now with Joy to key means it is doable..... but J2K is like TIR... you have to turn it on before the sim loads... and I often dont know what I will be flying until I get in the sim. Even if it werent on the arming screen.. I will have to try to see if by minimizing and using IL2 manager I can get it to see the profile I load on the fly. IL2 manager has a stick editor in it as well.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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tagTaken2
10-22-2006, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
How does this relate to your RL experiences with trim TagTaken?


In RL, my own contribution to trim is overpacking my luggage... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I don't fly online, don't have broadband at home, plus I suspect I'd get slaughtered.

When flying online, I respect a level playing field, so that's not my issue. However, the AI has special powers, so screw 'em.

It's more the problem of overapplying RL tactics to a GAME that has limited realism.

This worrying about stick settings might be a bit redundant after the DVD comes out. Hopefully they fix the guns on US planes, I've been flying blue for some time now.

WOLFMondo
10-23-2006, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Yeah... the P-51 was the main one that got me thinking on that... although.. how do you use the stick settings to get rid of the wobble?

I reduced my rudder input quite drastically as well as the elevator sensitivity. I only have about 55% deflection on each, which is enough to fly and fight, you won't be out turning anyone but you'll also be keeping your wings, not suffering from wobbles and staying very fast.


Originally posted by Bearcat99:
and I often dont know what I will be flying until I get in the sim. Even if it werent on the arming screen.. I will have to try to see if by minimizing and using IL2 manager I can get it to see the profile I load on the fly. IL2 manager has a stick editor in it as well.

This is why configs in third party stick apps is ok but not at all ideal. For some people alt-tabbing means IL2 will crash or cause graphics errors, so availability of choosing your stick setup on the arming screen would be ideal, or the main menu, or where ever. Usability isn't my fortiet.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!