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View Full Version : Why still no coop starting choice?



3.JG51_Stecher
12-19-2003, 03:01 PM
Patch after patch, and this is still ignored. I don't get it, there's nothing new to develop or test. Just make the off runway starts an option in coops. You won't find an easier way to add immersion. I know it isn't crucially important to the survival of the game, but, really, how hard would this be to do? Don't worry about AIs, just the humans. I am yet to hear a single case against this. Can I officially designate myself as the "Coop starting location whiner"? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Please 1C, it's easy, it's quick, it's simple, and it will make a lot of people a little bit happier.


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3./Jagdgeschwader 51
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

3.JG51_Stecher
12-19-2003, 03:01 PM
Patch after patch, and this is still ignored. I don't get it, there's nothing new to develop or test. Just make the off runway starts an option in coops. You won't find an easier way to add immersion. I know it isn't crucially important to the survival of the game, but, really, how hard would this be to do? Don't worry about AIs, just the humans. I am yet to hear a single case against this. Can I officially designate myself as the "Coop starting location whiner"? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Please 1C, it's easy, it's quick, it's simple, and it will make a lot of people a little bit happier.


http://flygirl.dhs.org:8080/jg51/Alpine-Thunder.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

CARBONFREEZE
12-19-2003, 11:18 PM
You can start in the air if you create the mission in FMB..

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

kyrule2
12-20-2003, 12:44 AM
When he says "off the runway" I think he is asking for players to be allowed to start on the apron(?) in coops, not in the air.

And I agree.

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"Ice Warriors" by Nicolas Trudgian

Tully__
12-20-2003, 04:31 AM
It requires major recoding in order to cope with those aircraft not chosen by human players. All ground movement by AI aircraft is scripted to save CPU power. As there is no way to control where mission designers choose to put aicraft on the taxi way or parking ramp, scripts can't be written in advance.

Further, the scripts as currently supported in the software will not support taxiing behind a human plane when the plane in front stops unexpectedly. This is is why your AI squad mates sometimes taxi into your parked plane after landing.

There is a way to start from the ramp, ask in the mission builder forum about it, but the AI will not taxi, they'll take off straight ahead in the direction they're facing when they spawn.

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Salut
Tully

3.JG51_Stecher
12-20-2003, 05:31 AM
-------------------------
Originally posted by Tully__:
It requires major recoding in order to cope with those aircraft not chosen by human players. All ground movement by AI aircraft is scripted to save CPU power. As there is no way to control where mission designers choose to put aicraft on the taxi way or parking ramp, scripts can't be written in advance.

Further, the scripts as currently supported in the software will not support taxiing behind a human plane when the plane in front stops unexpectedly. This is is why your AI squad mates sometimes taxi into your parked plane after landing.

There is a way to start from the ramp, ask in the mission builder forum about it, but the AI will not taxi, they'll take off straight ahead in the direction they're facing when they spawn.
-------------------------

I understand that the AI are too stupid to think while taxiing, and they have to be scripted to taxi after landing. I'm not asking for this to be changed, which is why I said to forget about the AI. Let them start on the runway if that is necessary in this game. What I don't get is why the human players in a coop can't have the same spawning places as they have in dogfights. In those, you select a base and then it puts you on your individual spot on the apron. Every human has their own spot. The AI can startup and take off just like normal while the humans taxi out to the runway. There is nothing new to develop here. No AI routine changes, no spawning system changes, just simply give coop humans the spawning system that they already have for dogfights.

I am aware of the FMB "trick" you can do to get coop planes on the apron. It's something like setting the plane where you want it, but at a normal fly waypoint, not takeoff, and then set the speed and altitude to 0. Anyway, it results in the plane spawning with the engines on and at I believe 75% power. Remember, the whole point to this is to add immersion. And this method is even worse than starting in a perfect line on the runway. Also, this spawning situation makes it very perilous for us 262 pilots regardless. Why can't the human dogfight spawning system that already exists simply be made an option for coops?


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3./Jagdgeschwader 51
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

3.JG51_Stecher
12-22-2003, 08:03 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


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3./Jagdgeschwader 51
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

WUAF_Badsight
12-23-2003, 04:11 AM
Stecher_3.-JG51 wrote :
"What I don't get is why the human players in a coop can't have the same spawning places as they have in dogfights. In those, you select a base and then it puts you on your individual spot on the apron"


d00d you CAN

but you need to learn how to work with the FMB

once you do you can get some way cool " hidden bases " with you spawning any damm where you want !!!!!

the FMB has aLOT of un-knowen potential & gives you a awesome amount of scope considering its a small part of a $40 game

3.JG51_Stecher
12-23-2003, 12:48 PM
If you know a way to achieve this, other than the seriously flawed way already mentioned here, would you please explain how to do it?


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3./Jagdgeschwader 51
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

Tully__
12-24-2003, 12:16 AM
On the larger bases it's possible to move a takeoff waypoint far enough from the runway end so that it doesn't snap back when the mission is run. I believe the critical distance is 1000m. You're still stuck with the AI not taxiing, but you get to do a conventional engine start.

You can also do a "field" takeoff by putting all the planes on a road somewhere. To get the takeoff waypoints where you want them you'll have to drag them there from the nearest airfield after placement in most cases, but this also works.

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Salut
Tully

3.JG51_Stecher
12-24-2003, 02:01 AM
Well, I used the base at Caen, it has a tarmac far enough away from both ends of the runway. I was able to put myself on the far corner of it, but my wingman was off a little further. With 109s, the AI tries to take off from the position it's in, which results in a collision with a hangar. So you can't use AI wingmen in these missions. And when I tried it with the 262, the engines won't even start in the first place. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Any other base which isn't huge, requires a spawining point that's just too far off for taxiing on uneven ground. Again, there are more problems created than fixed. It would make much more sense to just put in a human spawning option for coops.


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3./Jagdgeschwader 51
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

3.JG51_Stecher
12-27-2003, 11:58 PM
http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/images/smilies/bump.gif


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3./Jagdgeschwader 51
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

Wolkenbeisser
12-29-2003, 08:23 AM
I agree with Stecher

Wolkenbeisser
12-29-2003, 08:31 AM
Hello Sig?

Fliegergrüsse

<img src=&quot;http://home.tiscalinet.ch/meyera/Bilder/Wolkenbeisser1a.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;Wolkenbeisser&quot;>

Wolkenbeisser
12-29-2003, 08:32 AM
Why no longer post-preview? Miss my sig...

Fliegergrüsse

<img src=&quot;http://home.tiscalinet.ch/meyera/Bilder/Wolkenbeisser1a.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;Wolkenbeisser&quot;>

Wolkenbeisser
12-29-2003, 09:04 AM
Uff, ha's wieder gfunde http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fliegergrüsse

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JG14_Josf
12-29-2003, 12:10 PM
What would happen if the 1000m critical distance was cut down to 100m?

That does not appear to be a big coding problem.

The A.I. may be placed then in a spot that could allow them to simply take-off in a straight line.

GvSAP_Dart
12-30-2003, 01:35 AM
In the meantime, perhaps you'll give this a whirl - http://www.darts-page.us/files/109_supply_intercept.zip

I think you'll find it sort of what you're looking for!

____________________________________
http://www.darts-page.com for more foolishness

WUAF_Badsight
12-31-2003, 06:58 AM
right click & save these 2 files to you coop folder

then play it

you will see what kind of spawn start is possible



http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/311203-IceStationZebra6.mis

http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/311203-IceStationZebra6.properties



BTW it the mission select screen its called :

ice Station Zebra

& to see what was made select & spawn in a Yak

there is also a camera put in the coop & try for the first time with externals to see what i set up

[This message was edited by WUAF_Badsight on Wed December 31 2003 at 06:11 AM.]

WUAF_Badsight
12-31-2003, 07:16 AM
BTW i just learned how to make AI spawn & not move ....

& i mean spawn as in spawn anywhere i want not just at runways

3.JG51_Stecher
12-31-2003, 08:24 PM
With a made up base, even if you can find a relatively flat area of land, it is still programmed as being very rough. Certainly it is possible to take off from them, but the rate of crashes will be relatively high, and in a coop, there are no restarts of course. Whether the AIs charge ahead and crash or are disabled, they are still unavailable to use in a mission as wingmen. If the critical distance for a takeoff waypoint was changed from 1000m to 100m, it would fix some of the problems we encounter when trying to work around the absence of a spawn option. It would allow for actual programmed bases to be used, so taxi and takeoff would be normal. As I mentioned, unlike all other aircraft, the Me 262 cannot even start its engines when placed off of the runway, this would have to be fixed if a 100m critical distance were to be implemented. I'm not sure how much recoding this would take, but it seems to be a very minor change. Although, an official coop spawning option for humans is a minor change in itself, and is to me, still the best fix.


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3./Jagdgeschwader 51
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

WUAF_Badsight
12-31-2003, 10:55 PM
rough ground wasnt in FB v1.0 when my coop was made

taking off from that mountian was dead easy

not now

BTW that mountian has bee deited as well ..... in FB v1.21 that flat ground is no longer there now

only is their in you Coop or DF map if you made the Coop or DF in FB v1.0 or FB v1.11

it was a poor example of AI spawning ill agree but shows what sort of spawn point can be made