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View Full Version : The P40E compared to the P40M



XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 08:19 PM
The later M model has a more powerful engine and extended fuselage, yet it is slower and less maneuverable than the earlier E model... Sounds kinda weird to me...

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 08:19 PM
The later M model has a more powerful engine and extended fuselage, yet it is slower and less maneuverable than the earlier E model... Sounds kinda weird to me...

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 08:35 PM
If I'm not mistaken, it also incorporated somewhat more pilot armor...


Regards,
HerrBaron

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 12:54 AM
It may have a slower top speed, but its acceleration might have been improved (especially if its a low altitude engine)
Acceleration is probably more important in a dog fight, top speed is more useful for high tailing it!

-Hareball

--------------------------------------
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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 01:09 AM
I use the E model online alot and noticed this as well, also the M model was designed not to stall head over by making the rudder and elevators longer, yet in FB the p40m stalls much easier then the E model which doesnt make sense. Hopefully they noticed this without anyone talking about it.

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 12:30 PM
quote ""If I'm not mistaken, it also incorporated somewhat
more pilot armor... ""

i thought the later M model was lighter & faster ....

i thought it to mean the M model had less armour ??

in FB the M doesnt seem to be better to me
if anything it seems equal or a slight bit worse at
stalling ... havent tested it accell yet tho

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 12:47 PM
According to the Sturmovik website, the E model is faster (555km/h vs 515 km/h @ 3000m) but the M model has a better climb rate (7.5 min vs 11.5 min to 6000m).

Loaded, the M weighs 3629kg, and the E weighs 4173. The M has 1200hp vs 1015 for the E.

So the P-40M must have had weight removed from it, and has a slightly better engine, which gives it better climb. Since the wing area is the same, you'd think the P-40M, being lighter, would turn better.

It is strange that, with a lighter airframe and more powerful engine, the P-40M is so much slower than the E, while at the same time having better climb. Maybe typo.

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 06:00 PM
heres the P-40E info:

As P-40s wartime experience increased, Curtiss made many modifications to the earlier variants of the fighter. Armor plate was added, as well as better self-sealing fuel tanks, and more powerful engines. Due to the introduction of the new Allison V-1710-39 engine the two guns in the engine cowling were deleted. The cockpit was modified to improve visibility and the armament was changed to six wing-mounted .50-caliber machine guns, as opposed to only four machine guns in the earlier models.

1,500 were built, primarily for the RAF where they were designated Kittihawk Mk I. Many were also diverted to Canada, Australia, Russia, and New Zealand. Based on the Lend-Lease regulations all aircraft purchased with US funds had to have standard US designations and had to be issued USAAF serial numbers, even though they were never intended for service with the USAAF.

Overall, most pilots who flew the P-40 did not like it. One of the major gripes the US and RAF pilots had with the Warhawk is its altitude performance, which was a direct result of the pre-war bombardment over pursuit design policy. Soviet pilots did not fight at altitude very often, but they also found that P-40 engines were not very reliable and that it could not withstand battle damage as well as the P-39 Airacobras. Many modifications were made to the P-40 and it remained in production until 1944; however it was hardly a fighter pilots dream and was generally outclassed by the enemy fighters all throughout its history.

Advantages: Increased firepower over earlier P-40 with the addition of six 50-caliber machine guns. The P-40E was a sturdy aircraft and could endure a great deal of punishment.

Disadvantages: Despite the addition of the Addition of the Allison V-1710-39, it was too slow, lacked maneuverability, had a low climb rate, and was largely obsolescent by any standards even before it was ordered into production.


and heres some info on the P-40M:


By the late 1942, the scarcity of Packard-built Rolls Royce engines used on the P-40F necessitated that the Allison engine to be reintroduced into the P-40 production line. The result was the P-40K and P-40M versions.

The P-40M was generally similar to late-production P-40Es except for the more powerful Allison engine. The P-40M was initially to retaine the short fuselage of the P-40E, but first batches of P-40K had a tendency to swing during takeoff due to increased power. Therefore late production P-40K and P-40M had a dorsal fin, and the longer fuselage first introduced on the P-40F-5-CU. The P-40M was also adapted for combat in cold weather.

The first P-40M appeared in November 1942. Most of them went to the RAF, the RAAF, Russia, and the RNZAF as the Kittyhawk III. The type served with British Commonwealth forces in the Far East. No. 5 Squadron of the South African Air Force operated a number in Italy.








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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 06:22 PM
Could anybody tell me if there is a big difference in performance between the E and the field mod version with the russian M-105 engine?
I don't fly the P40 that often but it would be interesting to know

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 07:10 PM
heres the specs on the E version with the Russian M-105P engine:

Weight:
Empty: ~2,700 kg
Maximum: ~4,000 kg

Length: 9.50 m
Wingspan: 11.38 m
Wing area: 21.92 sq m

Engine: Klimov M-105P
Power: 1,100 hp

Top speed:
Sea level: 476-480 km/h
At 4,800 m: 560-565 km/h
Climb rate to 5,000 m: ~7.5 min
Service ceiling: ~9,000 m
Range: unknown

Armament:
6 x 12.7 mm MG
up to 6 x RS-82 Rockets
1 x 250 kg bomb
2 x 50 kg bombs


and heres the specs on the P-40E:

Weight:
Empty: 2,880 kg
Maximum: 4,173 kg

Length: 9.50 m
Wingspan: 11.38 m
Wing area: 21.92 sq m

Engine: Allison V-1710-39
Power: 1,150 hp

Top speed:
At 1,524 m: 539 km/h
At 3,050 m: 555 km/h
At 4,570 m: 583 km/h
Landing: 130 km/h
Turn time at 1000 m: 19.5 sec
Climb rate to 6,100 m: 11.5 min
Service ceiling: 8,840 m

Range:
Normal: 1,046 km
Maximum: 2,414 km

Armament:
6 x 12.7 mm MG
1 x 227 kg (500 lb) bomb
2 x 45 kg bombs




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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 09:20 PM
And in the Mediterranean theatre, Hans-Joachim Marseille shot down 18 of them in a single day's combat...

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 01:14 AM
I saw stats on P-40s somewhere that has the P-40M faster than the E model, despite being heavier. I will try and find that, can't remember right now where I saw that.

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 02:03 AM
mortoma wrote:
- I saw stats on P-40s somewhere that has the P-40M
- faster than the E model, despite being heavier. I
- will try and find that, can't remember right now
- where I saw that.


Many of the stats you see on the internet fail to state under what condition the speed was achieved.

Best to compare Military power to Military power or Combat power to Combat power.

Some of the speeds I've seen on the internet are clearly normal power speeds or military power speeds for a very heavy airplane.



Regards,

SkyChimp

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:14 PM
The M can carry a big bomb

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 12:29 PM
The E, too. It's the 75gal drop tank with a fuse higher than 0. That's why the P-40 won the war.


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