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View Full Version : P-39 Q1 wing guns incorrect? Are they .50s or .303s?



XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 09:41 PM
I noticed this a while ago, but never really brought it up because I didn't spend much time flying the Q1.

If you go to the object viewer and take a look at the P-39 Q1, the text description lists the armament as "a 37mm T9 cannon, two 12.7mm machine-guns and two 12.7mm Browning machine-guns installed in the wing."

So according that that information, it should have two .50s and the 37mm in the nose, and one .50 in each wing.

However, in the data block just above the text description, it clearly lists:

Armament:

1x37mm cannon (T9)
2x12.7mm MG (Browning .50 cal)
2x7.62mm MG (Browning .303 cal): wing.

So which is it? I'm assuming that the actual in flight loadout in IL-2 and FB is the 37mm, two .50s and two .303s.

It'd be nice if it really did have the four .50s like it's supposed to (I assume), but I can't tell for sure, and the feeling I get from the sim is that it has .303s in the wings.

There's obviously a mistake here someplace, I'd just like to know which part is incorrect.

If it is a mixed load of .50s and .303s, it makes the plane seem somewhat redundant, as the N1 carries more of the same guns along with more ammo, even if it is at a slight weight and handling penalty. Meanwhile, if you want better handling you'd probably just go right to the Q10, since the .303s are fairly weak guns anyway, and only having two of them won't make a lot of difference.

So, anyone have a definitive answer on this?

Message Edited on 09/08/0308:49PM by BinaryFalcon

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 09:41 PM
I noticed this a while ago, but never really brought it up because I didn't spend much time flying the Q1.

If you go to the object viewer and take a look at the P-39 Q1, the text description lists the armament as "a 37mm T9 cannon, two 12.7mm machine-guns and two 12.7mm Browning machine-guns installed in the wing."

So according that that information, it should have two .50s and the 37mm in the nose, and one .50 in each wing.

However, in the data block just above the text description, it clearly lists:

Armament:

1x37mm cannon (T9)
2x12.7mm MG (Browning .50 cal)
2x7.62mm MG (Browning .303 cal): wing.

So which is it? I'm assuming that the actual in flight loadout in IL-2 and FB is the 37mm, two .50s and two .303s.

It'd be nice if it really did have the four .50s like it's supposed to (I assume), but I can't tell for sure, and the feeling I get from the sim is that it has .303s in the wings.

There's obviously a mistake here someplace, I'd just like to know which part is incorrect.

If it is a mixed load of .50s and .303s, it makes the plane seem somewhat redundant, as the N1 carries more of the same guns along with more ammo, even if it is at a slight weight and handling penalty. Meanwhile, if you want better handling you'd probably just go right to the Q10, since the .303s are fairly weak guns anyway, and only having two of them won't make a lot of difference.

So, anyone have a definitive answer on this?

Message Edited on 09/08/0308:49PM by BinaryFalcon

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 09:48 PM
its .50cal.


dont trust any written sources in FB , not in Database not in manuals, unfortunatly /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 09:51 PM
JG53Frankyboy wrote:
- its .50cal.
-
-
- dont trust any written sources in FB , not in
- Database not in manuals, unfortunatly

See, that's my problem. Historically it's supposed to be .50s, and half of the info in FB says they're .50s, half says they're not. So which did they model when you're actually flying the thing, and how do we know for sure it's what we think it is?

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 10:01 PM
What color are the tracers??

If they are green then the P-39Q-1 has the 7.62mm guns if they are white or red then its the 12.7mm (red most likely).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 10:11 PM
I'd thought about that, but tracer color won't work in this case because all of the N1's tracers are the same color, and it definitely has a mix of .50s and .303s.

Upon looking at it again though, it looks like they may be .50s, and it's just the data block that's wrong. The muzzle flash is identical for the guns in the nose and the guns in the wings on the Q1 (it's different for the N1), so that suggest they're all the same weapon.

I'm still not 100% positive, but at least now I'm more sure than not that they are correct.

And to think I've spent the better part of a couple of years overlooking the Q1 because I didn't like the "weak" armament. Oh well, live and learn. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I'll still be giving up some (a lot) of firing time vs the N1, but the added punch may be worth it. Time to try it out and see.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 11:32 PM
Browning .303 and .50 cals use the same tracer graphic on both guns. But the sound is definately different...and I'm very certain that the Q-1 uses .50cals in the wings.

To test the sound, take a Q-1 for a spin and fire its MG's. Sounds the same as the P40's six .50 cals. Now take the N-1 out and shoot until the .50 cals run out and the .303's in the wings are the only ones left. They sound the same as the .303's in the Hurricane Mk 1 or Mk 2B.

More subjectively than sound...the Q-1 tends to chew targets up quicker with MG's than does the N. But thats very subjective.

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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 01:17 PM
The Russians may have changed the loadout, remember, they were sent to Russia and the Russians did have Lend-Lease Spitfires, they could have traded the guns in them. After all, One russian pilot said that 2 .50's was enough to bring down a German 109 and 190's etc.. in the nose of a P-40

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XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 12:19 AM
Sure it was enough, but still took a lot more work to do so/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 01:28 AM
The guns in the sim are infact 4x .30 calibers [2 per wing]. They can be toggled on or off with the gunpod toggle switch. Extra ammo doubles the ammo load for those guns.

The Q-1 can also de-activate it's wing guns.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 06:19 AM
No WW2 USAAF aircraft were ever armed with the .303 British cartridge. It was either the .50 BMG or the .30-06 Springfield.

The P39 N1 has 2 .30-06 Browning MGs in each of it's wings.

The P39 Q1 has .50 Brownings in the underwing pods.

The P39Q10 has no wing armament, although the real Q10s were delivered with .50 Browning gun pods like the Q1.

All US models had 2 .50 Brownings in the nose.

The export version (P 400) had the 37mm cannon replaced by a 20mm Hispano cannon. (Would'nt that be a nice option?)

<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
</img>.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. "
--T.E. Lawrence

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 12:23 AM
Also, the D version had 4 .30 cals in the nose, the 20MM and two .30's in each wing.

Gib


ElAurens wrote:
- No WW2 USAAF aircraft were ever armed with the .303
- British cartridge. It was either the .50 BMG or the
- .30-06 Springfield.
-
- The P39 N1 has 2 .30-06 Browning MGs in each of it's
- wings.
-
- The P39 Q1 has .50 Brownings in the underwing pods.
-
- The P39Q10 has no wing armament, although the real
- Q10s were delivered with .50 Browning gun pods like
- the Q1.
-
- All US models had 2 .50 Brownings in the nose.
-
- The export version (P 400) had the 37mm cannon
- replaced by a 20mm Hispano cannon. (Would'nt that be
- a nice option?)
-
- <center><FONT
- color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> <img
- src="http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40h
- ome.gif">
- </img>.
-
- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by
- night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in
- the day that it was vanity:
- but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for
- they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make
- them possible. "
- --T.E. Lawrence
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 12:29 AM
Howdy
The export version of the P-39D was the Airacobra MK1

It had the HS 20mm, two Browning .50 cals in nose and
four Browning .303 in the wings as per the British
order.

These were the first of the P-39's that the Russians
received.

Export Airacobra Mk1 that were taken back into
US service were redesignated P-400.

These P-400s served along side P39D-1-BE's,P39D-2-BE's
and P39D-BE's.
The P39D-BE had the 37MM, two .50cal , and four 30-06 cal
browning.
The D1-BE and D2-BE had the 20mm HS, two .50cal and four .30-06.

P-400 675 built
P39D BE 60 built (-26 D3-BE and 11 D4-BE recon vers)
P39D-1-BE 705 built
P39D-2-BE 158 built (also had the V1710-63 engine 1325HP)

S!
Weasel

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 12:37 AM
Howdy
The P-39C had 1 37mm 2 .30 cal 30-06 brownings and
two .50cal browning in the nose and no wing guns.

There is pictures of a Prototype D ( Is a P-39C) that
has the muzzle protectors in the wings but still has the
P-39C arm in the nose. This was a Prototype.

The P-39C was never cleared for combat. Only 20 were built.

No D version had 4 30cals in the nose, the 20mm and two .30's in each wing.

S!
Weasel

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:15 AM
BgWeasel wrote:
- Howdy
- The export version of the P-39D was the Airacobra
- MK1
-
- It had the HS 20mm, two Browning .50 cals in nose
- and
- four Browning .303 in the wings as per the British
- order.
-
- These were the first of the P-39's that the Russians
- received.
-
- Export Airacobra Mk1 that were taken back into
- US service were redesignated P-400.
-
- These P-400s served along side
- P39D-1-BE's,P39D-2-BE's
- and P39D-BE's.
- The P39D-BE had the 37MM, two .50cal , and four
- 30-06 cal
- browning.
- The D1-BE and D2-BE had the 20mm HS, two .50cal and
- four .30-06.
-
- P-400 675 built
- P39D BE 60 built (-26 D3-BE and 11 D4-BE recon vers)
- P39D-1-BE 705 built
- P39D-2-BE 158 built (also had the V1710-63 engine
- 1325HP)


Thanks!!!!!!!!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
</img>.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. "
--T.E. Lawrence

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 06:48 PM
Fafnir_6 wrote:
- What color are the tracers??
-
- If they are green then the P-39Q-1 has the 7.62mm
- guns if they are white or red then its the 12.7mm
- (red most likely).
-
- Cheers,
-
- Fafnir_6
-
-
The green tracers are from the russian Shkas machine guns, not american browing ones.


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2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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