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shotdownski
03-15-2006, 02:49 PM
I know this has been touched on before, but I'm not overly thrilled with the performance of the Mosquito FBVI. Before we got it (thanks Oleg and crew), I was under the impression that it was some kind of wonder-plane. But to be honest, the Me-110 is alot more fun to fly. The Mossie has very poor acceleration and just seems underpowered. In comparson the Me-110 feels downright nimble. When I do one-on-one's and get behind a Me-110, he just climbs away and I have a he11 of a time catching up.

Is this a fair observation, or am I missing something?

stathem
03-15-2006, 03:00 PM
Are you absolutely sure you've remembered to switch BOTH of the Mosquito's engines on?

Xiolablu3
03-15-2006, 03:33 PM
YOu know it has WEP right?


It IS a wonderplane, a bomber travelling at that speed in 1942 is almost uncatchable.

On good servers with historical maps for 1942 such as Ukded you can bomb and get back to base with no problem at all, if you stick to the task you are almost untouchable in 1942/1943.

So much safer bombing at almost 600kph than lumbering along in a A20 at 350-400kph, even the 1942 version which we have is very fast throughout '43 and into '44

The only thing that I think it wrong is that it is too weak, it falls apart very easily.

JG53Frankyboy
03-15-2006, 04:34 PM
actually a FB.MkVI is a 1943 plane.
but correct, the B.MkIV is from 1942 - and that should propably even faster than a FB modell ?!

ImpStarDuece
03-15-2006, 05:02 PM
1. The Mosquito is a light bomber/fighter bomber, not a fighter. It's incredibly 'chuckable' for an aircraft that weighs 22,000 lbs loaded.

2. We have an early Mosquito FB MK VI Serise I, with 1,480 hp Merlin 21 engines and manifold exhaust covers, representing the first 300 or so Mk VIs.

The later Serise II with 1,640 hp Merlin 25s, representing the bulk of production, were some 10-25mph faster on the deck, depending on whether or not they had the manifold exhaust covers removed or not. The covers knocked off about 14mph from top speed.

3.The Mosquito will still do 340mph/540kph on the deck, that is 5 mph faster than a 1943 Spitfire L.F. IX and 30 mph faster than a Bf-110. In fact in 1943 it was faster than any other British aircraft downlow, with the exception of the Typhoon and specialised low altitude Spitfire XII. It can run away from any opponent on the deck except the FW190A4/A5, which is about 5/12mph faster. At critical alt of 13,000 feet it is faster than the Spitfire IXc, FW190A4, 109F4 and 109G2.

Stick to the correct altitudes (0-3000 feet and 13000 feet) and the Mosquito should be relatively safe from a similar time period aircraft.

4. Given that the Mossie FB VI weighs about 1200 kg more than a Bf-110G, and has less engine power, its not suprising that the 110 would climb and accelerate better.

5. The faster Mosquitos were the later marks, most particularly the bombers and night fighters. Don't confuse the 1944-1945 fast bombers with emergency No2 injection and 2 stage Merlins, with a 1943 low-altitude heavy fighter bomber with single stage low-altitude rated Merlins at +16 or +18 boost.

LEXX_Luthor
03-15-2006, 05:02 PM
What happened to pingu?

ImpStarDuece
03-15-2006, 05:05 PM
His hair rebelled and ate him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
03-15-2006, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
His hair rebelled and ate him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
LOL

Thats what happened!

Mosquitos are not really wonder planes. THey have that reputation but as with all of the other reputations that have been spoiled by cold flight simulator statistics there are several things at work.

One of the reasons Mossies were untouchable was not that it was just fast, but that it was fast, stealthy to WWII radar, and were only ever detected at a point that was too late to send night-fighters to climb, intercept, and then keep pace with the bombers.

Secondly, the ultra uber Mossie is not represented.

Thirdly, we have an earlier variant that is slower with less powerful engines. We're told that a future patch will introduce a 1944 model with rockets and more powerful Merlins. That'll be more of the machine that everyone was expecting. That said, I think the Mossie is far more fun than even the Bf110 (which is plenty fun!) and in combat the Mossie is a better fighter than the 110.

ElAurens
03-15-2006, 07:03 PM
If you want a real eye opener take a Mossie up in the QMB and go one on one with a Ki 46 Kai set to Veteran.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Kurfurst__
03-16-2006, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
2. We have an early Mosquito FB MK VI Serise I, with 1,480 hp Merlin 21 engines and manifold exhaust covers, representing the first 300 or so Mk VIs.

The later Serise II with 1,640 hp Merlin 25s, representing the bulk of production, were some 10-25mph faster on the deck, depending on whether or not they had the manifold exhaust covers removed or not. The covers knocked off about 14mph from top speed.

Hi,

Do you know what boost is associated to these powers and when they came into use?


At critical alt of 13,000 feet it is faster than the Spitfire IXc, FW190A4, 109F4 and 109G2.

You sure of that? I have 602 kph for the G-1 at 1,3ata, and I'd think the A4 and IX is perhaps even a little faster than that. The MkVI iirc had barely over 600 at top speed, so given the obviously worser acceleration than se fighters, perhaphs it's not a good tactic.. though basically, imho if you catch the attention of se fighter in a Mossie, there's very little you can do about it, he has all the cards.. 10-15 kph higher top speed won't save you, unless he is a very poor shot and can't hit you for long time.

BGs_Ricky
03-16-2006, 01:58 AM
I think that the Mossie we have is quite correct concerning its speed, very fast for a 42-43 medium bomber. It feels a bit less nimble than the Beaufighter, especially in roll, don't know it this is correct, what do the Mossie specialists think of that ??

ImpStarDuece
03-16-2006, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
2. We have an early Mosquito FB MK VI Serise I, with 1,480 hp Merlin 21 engines and manifold exhaust covers, representing the first 300 or so Mk VIs.

The later Serise II with 1,640 hp Merlin 25s, representing the bulk of production, were some 10-25mph faster on the deck, depending on whether or not they had the manifold exhaust covers removed or not. The covers knocked off about 14mph from top speed.

Hi,

Do you know what boost is associated to these powers and when they came into use? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The initial Merlin 21/23s fitted to the Mk VI were rated at +16lbs boost in 1942. Merlin 25 were first fitted to FB VI Mosquitos in May 1943, with 130 produced at the Hatfield plant between May and June of that year. They were rated at +18lbs. Mosquitos with Merlin 25s underwent modification to +25 lbs boost in June 1944.


Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece: At critical alt of 13,000 feet it is faster than the Spitfire IXc, FW190A4, 109F4 and 109G2.

You sure of that? I have 602 kph for the G-1 at 1,3ata, and I'd think the A4 and IX is perhaps even a little faster than that. The MkVI iirc had barely over 600 at top speed, so given the obviously worser acceleration than se fighters, perhaphs it's not a good tactic.. though basically, imho if you catch the attention of se fighter in a Mossie, there's very little you can do about it, he has all the cards.. 10-15 kph higher top speed won't save you, unless he is a very poor shot and can't hit you for long time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I'm sure.

Top speed for a FB. Mk. VI with Merlin 21s and manifold exhausts is ~378 mph at 13,200 feet, fully loaded at 19,500 lbs. That is about 610 kph at 4000m. Later, when manifold exhausts were removed and multi-ejector type exhausts fitted, FB VIs were about 10mph/16kph faster at the same altitude.

B. Mk. IVs had a top speed of about 385 mph/620 kph at the same height with a full 2000lbs bombload and full fuel load, and about 3-4mph faster after bombs gone and with a lighter fuel load.

Top speed for the Spit IXc was 370mph at 13,000 feet
The FW190A5 did just shy of 610 kph at 4000m, so its as fast as a FB. Mk. VI, but a little slower than a B. Mk. IV (i think the ingame speed is about 605kph at 4000m)
Your data is for the G-1 doing 602 kph at 4000m.

Mosquitos main defence was its high cruising speed (275mph range cruise, 330+ mph combat cruise) and good acceleration. It wasn't there to 'mix it' with opposing fighters. The RAF trials of the Mossie B. Mk IV with +12lbs rated (not full service +16bs) Merlin 21s note:

General
Interceptions and attacks were attempted by Spitfire V aircraft at various
altitudes. If the fighter was allowed to close range, the Mosquito was unable to
throw it off as its lower safety factor of 6 does not allow sufficiently violent
manoeuvring with safety. Owing to the high speed and light elevator control of
the Mosquito, high acceleration forces are easily imposed but will normally be
avoided as the upright position of the crew reduces the amount of 'g' that can
be withstood without 'blacking out'. If the Mosquito is cruising fast, the only
present-day fighters which are likely to be dangerous will have to dive down
from a greater height than the Mosquito in order to attain enough speed to carry
out an attack. Those that are climbing up from below will never come in range
and any on the same level as the Mosquito, if seen in time, can be kept out of
range if the Mosquito accelerates quickly.

The trials noted that if a Spitfire V had a 3,000 foot advantage it could dive and catch the Mosquito and get a good burst in. But if the altitude advantage was 2,000 feet or the range greater than 1000 yards then the Mosquito could accelerate away from the Spitfire V at all altitudes below 24,000 feet.

The Mossie is not meant to compete with S/E fighters, but given a head-start and some crew awareness, it should be able to outrun pretty much anything its likelt to encounter in a late 1942 to late 1943 scenario.

Lightning72
03-16-2006, 07:11 AM
Is there something unusual about how to fly the Mossie? Before you ask, I do have all engines on, but I am having real difficulties just getting the plane airbourne.

I've taken a few old bombing missions and substituted the Mosquito using the FMB, modifying the cruising altitudes to reflect a low level approach. With a load of just two 500 lb bombs, I can take off but have a hard time getting the aircraft to increase it speed to anything over 190 km/hr. If I switch to autopilot, the plane does increase up to the expected airspeed and operates fine thereafter. But if I don't engage the autopilot, the plane just stumbles along and then stalls and crashes somewhere within the first kilometer or so of the takeoff point. Flaps aren't the problem, but I don't normally pay too much attention to things like pitch or mixture. Could these be the problem?

CMHQ_Rikimaru
03-16-2006, 07:30 AM
set pitch for 100%

stathem
03-16-2006, 07:31 AM
No, all fine here. I mean it's not blindingly quick to accelerate at low speeds and it slews speed off quickly at low speeds, (particularly on approach, where it drops like a stonew below about 130mph), but it gets up and away OK for a twin.

Mix is auto, Blower speeds are auto. PP is manual but it should default to 100% if you never mess with it. Worth checking I suppose, I really can't think of anything else so long as you've got your gear up. I raise mine the moment the wheels leave the deck (and sometimes before http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)

Viper2005_
03-16-2006, 07:48 AM
To quote the pilot's notes:


120*. Throttle controls

The black friction nut is for the throttles: the (larger) white one is for the propeller leavers.

Normally the throttles can be pushed forward to the stops only. When the small catches on the levers are squeezed the throttles can be pushed fully forward.

Merlin 25 engines give 4-12 lb./sq.in. boost at the stops and +18 lb./sq.in. when fully forward; there is no cut-out. Merlin 23 engines may still be fitted. They give +9 lb./sq.in. at the stops and +12 lb./sq.in. at the fully forward position. If the boost control cut-out is pulled, +14 lb./sq.in. will be obtained in low gear.

De-rated engines for either mark give +9 lb./sq.in. boost at the stops and +12 lb./sq.in. at the fully forward position and do not have a cut-out.

21. Mixture and slow running cut-out controls

i) S.U. carburettors are fitted and mixture is automatically controlled by the bosst pressure; an economical mixture is obtained when this is less thatn +7lb./sq.in.

ii) Spring loaded slow running cut-out controls, mounted above the fuel **** controls should be pulled out to stop the engines, after which they should be released smartly.

22. Propeller controls

The r.p.m. control levers (49) which vary the governed pitch from 3,000-1,800 r.p.m. are fitted on the side of the engine controls box. The feathering pushbuttons (25) are on the right-hand front panel. The friction control lever (50) is the large white knob on the engine controls box.

23. Superchargers control

When the superchargers gear change switch (51) is set to MOD, the superchargers will remain in low gear at all altitudes. When this switch is set to AUTO the electro-pneuematic rams are controlled by an aneroid, and will automatically engage high gear when climbing, at approximately the following heights:

Merlin 23 - 8,750 ft.
Merlin 25 - 7,000 ft.

These heights are the correct supercharger gear change heights only when using maximum power (operational necessity). When using low power settings, the selection of high gear should be carried out by switching to AUTO as recommended in para. 41. When descending in AUTO, low gear will be engages at slightle lower altitudes than those quoted above. Failure of the electrical or pneumatic system will cause the superchargers to remain in, or return to, low gear.

24. Radiator shutters

The radiator shutters are controlled by two switches (15) which operate electro-pneumatic rams. It is not possible to set the shutters at intermediate positions between fully open and shut.


Numbers in brackets like this; (50) refer to the cockpit diagram in the pilot's notes which I can't reproduce here.

* This is a misprint; it should read "20" but I thought I'd reproduce my copy warts and all.

Xiolablu3
03-16-2006, 09:40 AM
I think the Mossie is a wonderplane if used correctly.

It enabled pinpoint bombing without the need for escorts and could escape back to base very quickly outrunning most fighters of its day.

It is not a fighter, its a light fast bomber which fought as a fighter as a last resort.

Its best but least famous work was as a pathfinder for the hundreds of LAncasters bombing at night.

The Mossies would go in first and drop 4 different coloured flares onto four different targets and then the bombers would be told which colour to aim for at the last minute breifing. This way the Germans would not know which of the 4 targets was the one which was going to be hit.

A great plane when used as it should be but NOT a fighter. 2 engined planes should be used as ground pounders and not fighters in my opinon.

FI-Aflak
03-16-2006, 02:24 PM
I flew QMB 4 ace 110 vs 4 ace mossies from both sides. The 110 is by far the better fighter, by thte mossies high speed (once it gets there) makes it the more survivable bomber.

DoubleTap2005A
03-17-2006, 05:22 AM
I am not an expert pilot, granted, but I have been playing the Mozzie alot. I think those that said flying it like it was intended shows its strengths are right on.

You are a hit and run artist in this thing, not a dogfighter or even a strike fighter. You are a very fast, light BOMBER. If you get lucky or an enemy fighter in a bad position, you can dive in and take your shot, but that's not its forte'. I know, because when I violate this rule, I pay for it. When I obey it, I usually get away.

You come in like a bat out of hell, drop your ordinance dead on, and get the hell out. If you do not stop to fool around, and certainly don't get into a dogfight, you should be fine.

Now, this assumes you have enemy fighters around, and no serious fighter protection. If one or both of these conditions do exist, you can take your strafing shots and have a reasonable ability to avoid AA (which WILL tune you up if they get a bead on you).

I also do not find the 110 outperforming me, whether in AI or player. I actually think the two planes are decent matchup, and it seems the Mozzie actually has an edge in that contest.

My general rules (which I am still trying to beat into my own head are this:

If you are dogfighting anything other than bombers or bi-planes, you are asking for trouble.

Do not make short turns when strafing. Zoom away and make LONG turns for another run. I know, this is a general rule for any plane, but take it to heart with the Mozzie.

If you are one going somewhere, and an enemy fighter is in your way, go head to head, fire at .60 for a second or two, then dip below and blow past and keep going. If you don't mess him up, all that ordinance in his face will still rattle most people, giving you a few extra seconds of separation.

It takes a little time and effort to get to top speed. Be patient. If someone is chasing you and does not seem to be falling behind, he's probably WEPing engine. Keep going with as little evasive maneuvers as you need to maintain speed. He'll probably drop out when he feels the heat.

Kurfurst__
03-17-2006, 10:55 AM
Thanks for the reply, Imp' ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

shotdownski
03-17-2006, 11:58 AM
Yeah, thanks for all the responses.

So the take-home is:

1) Fast in/fast out
2) One pass only if enemy a/c around (or flak)
3) No dogfighting
4) If confronted by enemy fighters, then balls-to-the-wall for home

Xiolablu3
03-17-2006, 01:35 PM
ANother good tip for pinpoint bombing in the Mossie or 110 is to fly over your target and attack heading BACK to your base, this way you dont have to do a dangerous turn while low, you are a sitting duck in this turn.

This way you can bomb and run back towards your base with full power on, and you are likely to meet freindly fighters heading to the target if you are on a good server who can help with any chasing fighters.

ImpStarDuece
03-17-2006, 02:37 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

It almost angers me to see people flying strike missions where they take off, fly directly to the target, drop their bombs, pop a 180 and head for home. Particularly in the WC, Spits vs 109 and other 'full real' servers.

Use your heads and you'll have a much better chance of survival.

My usual routine in the Mossie after take off is

1. Gain 1000-1500m altitude and a high cruising speed
2. Plan and fly a dogleg course to the target area, trying to avoid know enemy airbases
3. Come in at 500m either from the rear, or side of the target area.
4. Identify your target
5. Gentle dive to 50m
6. Drop bombs, accurately if you can http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif .
7. Run for home, screaming like a small child.

My most memorable Mossie mission happen recently online.

I made a run in from the side of the target area, dove down, droppped 2000lbs of bombs and somehow managed to kill 2 tanks. I exited the target area heading North East at about 330mph and about 50 feet from the deck, with flak chasing me and the black dots of fighters circling around 3000 feet above me.

Once I was sure I had no fighters after me, I began a shallow climb to 1500m and set course for home. On the way back to base, I spotted some fighters below and in front of me, a 109 chasing a hard manouvering P-51. Dove down and had a quick squirt at the 109, which was going vertical at the time. Missed the shot, popped a yo-yo, rolled over and dove back down for a solid 2 second stern burst which ripped the 109 apart.

Did a little victory roll for my very first A to A kill in the mossie, sighted the airbase, landed and logged off, very happy with the days strike mission.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-17-2006, 05:06 PM
nice, that P51 driver whoever he is owes you a beer! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

mortoma
03-17-2006, 05:20 PM
I find the Mossie a bear to land without bouncing.
Almost as if it's modeled without oleos. Not a nice landing aircraft, not for me anyway. Can anyone here get a greaser landing from her? Best I get is a mild bounce.

mhuxt
03-17-2006, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:

Almost as if it's modeled without oleos.

That may be partly because it didn't have oleos - it had rubber blocks in compression for ease of manufacture.

Aaron_GT
03-18-2006, 01:06 AM
The historical bombing in FB.VI was often done at low level. Target identification at low level is difficult so typically there were two waves. The first would pop up and then dive down on the target. This kept speed up and vulnerability down over the target but allowed the pilots a good view so as to be able to identify the target and communicate this to the second wave coming in low all the way. This was seen as the best compromise between having the whole group bomb in a shallow dive (which makes you more vulnerable) and innaccurate bombing due to failing to find the target (which means going back another day, also raising loss levels).

Care had to be taken with timing the waves and bomb delay times. It could go (and occasionally did go) horribly wrong with aircraft flying into bomb blasts. When control column layouts were changed there were also some instances of aircraft dropping bombs at low level when actually intending activate the radio, and then blowing themselves up if they were planes in the dive bombing formation which often had zero delay on the bombs.

msalama
03-18-2006, 01:35 AM
FWIW & IIRC, someone from the Mossie dev team said a while ago that it _does_ perform correctly for an early version with Merlin XX's...