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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:11 PM
It's not very authentic...

The original "Pegasus" draw-bridge near Benouville wasn't very big and didn't rest on 6 large pillars

(...no need for a large bridge over a small channel...)

Just compare for yourself:

Original:

http://sboos.perso.ch/images/Normandie44/JourJ/ParaGB04.jpg


http://membres.lycos.fr/dday44/historique/dday/pegasusbridge/03.jpg

( http://membres.lycos.fr/dday44/historique/dday/pegasusbridge/pegasusbridge.htm )


FB-model:

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/12Sep/Pegasus01.jpg

( http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/fb_development.php )

So, is this some kind of œber-Pegasus bridge there ? ;-)


Regards, Sven




Message Edited on 09/12/0304:15PM by Sauhatz

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:11 PM
It's not very authentic...

The original "Pegasus" draw-bridge near Benouville wasn't very big and didn't rest on 6 large pillars

(...no need for a large bridge over a small channel...)

Just compare for yourself:

Original:

http://sboos.perso.ch/images/Normandie44/JourJ/ParaGB04.jpg


http://membres.lycos.fr/dday44/historique/dday/pegasusbridge/03.jpg

( http://membres.lycos.fr/dday44/historique/dday/pegasusbridge/pegasusbridge.htm )


FB-model:

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/12Sep/Pegasus01.jpg

( http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/fb_development.php )

So, is this some kind of œber-Pegasus bridge there ? ;-)


Regards, Sven




Message Edited on 09/12/0304:15PM by Sauhatz

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:21 PM
It's a standard bridge from FB. This is a free add-on map.

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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:24 PM
Right, the aerial picture presented on the update (and that the map dev probably used for the map design) isn't a picture of Pegasus Bridge... but a picture of one of the bridge above the Orne river (probably the one who is 500m from Pegasus Bridge on the same road)

The screenshot shows a place which is far to picture Pegasus Bridge.
- The Bridge is too wide without the Metalic superstructure.
- there should be a row of houses on the left side of the road after the Bridge (NW of the Bridge)
- The famous "Café Gondrée" (famous to be the first French house liberated) SW 20m from the Bridge is absent.
- The village is supposed to depict Benouville... and to the S of the village (left side on the screenshot), The Benouville Castle and the forest is also not there.

better to forget the "Pegasus Bridge" title... and replace it with "A bridge somewhere in Normandy"....



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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:29 PM
O.K. I see...

...but it would be nice to see a new bridge object in the role of the "Pegasus"-bridge, wouldn't it ?

'Cause the standard FB-bridge looks like anything else, but not like the famous "Pegasus" bridge...

Edit: Yea, "A bridge somewhere in Normandy", that's perhaps what it is...;-)

Regards, Sven



Message Edited on 09/12/0304:30PM by Sauhatz

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:30 PM
ianboys wrote:
- It's a standard bridge from FB. This is a free
- add-on map.

Ok... but at least the forest (and maybe the Bénouville Castle... a standard 2-story building from FB would do the trick) South-West of Benouville should be there.... and maybe a few buildings near the Bridge (on the W side)


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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:06 PM
Say it with me, pinheads:


<div align="center" style="font-size:48px;">Use your imagination.</div>

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:13 PM
Agreed
New maps are cool. so wehat if it's not THE EXACT BRIDGE.
i'm just happy to get all the stuff we'er getting.


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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:57 PM
tolwyn...

This whole forum should be immediately deleted then...
we could also use our imagination for FM, DM, have a cubic 109 and imagine the real one, etc.....

I'm not saying "this game is crap" like many there... just writing some observations on a screenshot of a future map.
If the sugestions are used and the map updated... then nice... if not.. then no problems, of course everybody can live and play with every kind of maps.

That was the reason this forum was given to us initially....
(and the reason was certainly not to give peoples the opportunity to call other "pinheads"

And something is still wrong, it's not about the game, but just in the update pictures... the real recon aerial picture doesn't show the Pegasus Bridge as the title say



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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:41 PM
pegase_rama wrote:
-
- And something is still wrong, it's not about the
- game, but just in the update pictures... the real
- recon aerial picture doesn't show the Pegasus Bridge
- as the title say
-
-
I'm afraid that the maps are the least well researched feature in IL-2/FB, e.g the Stalingrad map is littered with modern reservoirs and the airfields are not in their correct position relative to the city.
After all the effort put in to the FMs and modelling of the aircraft and other features, and indeed the landscape, it does seem a shame. Maddox Games needs to hire a cartographer that specialises in WW2, (i.e me. I volunteer. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )

If, as some people seem to think, this doesn't matter then fine. Why not re-release the game with just the online maps and forget that it is supposed to represent a set of historical scenarios? And if you do that, then why care if the roll rate of the xxx is 3% slower than it actually was. Why not fly go and fly spacecraft in a galaxy far far away?

Cheers!

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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 08:13 PM
I'm also a cartographer... and have possible access to a lot of 1944 & 1945 aerial recon picture above France (not whole territory... but around 30%, foccussed on opperational theaters).

If a map dev is searching datas, WWII aerial recon picture, pre-WWII maps, precise DEM, and everything related, I can possibly help.


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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 09:45 PM
"The famous "Cafe Gondree" (famous to be the first French house liberated) SW 20m from the Bridge is absent."


I have news for you. There are many missing cafes in IL2/FB, possibly because it is not a dining simulator.

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 10:40 PM
tolwyn.com wrote:
- Say it with me, pinheads:
-
-
- <div align="center" style="font-size:28px;">Use your
- imagination.</div>
-

... or use the Full Mission Builder to add the missing buildings yourself.

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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 10:55 PM
love the new trees....

Chin up ..HUTCH


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XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:41 AM
Weeeelllll...

You've accepted all of the towns and settlements in the game thus far without too much griping...

What's the difference?

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 02:36 AM
because the maps were allready done (and I don't like much the Stalingrad map which is far away to be historical... but it was done, and I played it as it)

Maybe there is some place for improvement on the maps which are in development.... maybe not.
If there is, then maybe my observations can be usefull... if not, I will naturally accept them as they are when they will be released.

Just trying to help.. nothing more


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XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 04:52 PM
This has just occurred to me. What's the point of having Pegasus Bridge in the game anyway? It was captured very quickly by ground forces who landed by glider. So unless someone is modelling the gliders (and perhaps the Stirling as tug?) there is not much that we are going to be able to do with it except admire it. Even then all we would be able to do is land the gliders.
Oh well.
Cheers!

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 12:55 AM
There was at least one air attack FW190 on Pegasus Bridge after it was captured - Source Steven Ambrose Pegasus Bridge

Probably the main issue is with the development update not the modelling. As pointed out elsewhere the recon photo is not of PB despite what the caption is. Major giveaway apart from what it actually looks like :-) is the position of the glider

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 01:09 AM
Dunkelgrun wrote:
- This has just occurred to me. What's the point of
- having Pegasus Bridge in the game anyway? It was
- captured very quickly by ground forces who landed by
- glider. So unless someone is modelling the gliders
- (and perhaps the Stirling as tug?) there is not much
- that we are going to be able to do with it except
- admire it. Even then all we would be able to do is
- land the gliders.
- Oh well.

So there should just be a big pink square where Pegasus bridge was located on the Normandy map?

--AKD

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 09:18 AM
A.K.Davis wrote:
-
-
- So there should just be a big pink square where
- Pegasus bridge was located on the Normandy map?
-


No, every topographic object in this game should be depicted as accurately as is possible within programming limits. See my earlier posts. I've spent 29 years as a cartographic surveyor and hate to see inaccuracies in any map. Sad eh?

My point is whether or not Pegasus Bridge is depicted correctly, there's not a lot of historic scenarios to be played out there in FB. An AI glider attack at night and apparently one Fw190 jabo mission. If anyone wishes to construct a fictional scenario then it doesn't really matter which bridge is used.

The Development Update proudly announced 'Pegasus Bridge', (based on the wrong photographic info and poor research) as if it was something marvellous. It just seems to be rather irrelevant, that's all.

Cheers!

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 12:29 PM
Well, there are a lot more cases on the maps that don´t match with reality, but we´ll survive.

As we speak about bridges it would be a nice feature to have some kind of simulation of wartime bridges(engeniours puttin them up instead of blown out bridges - a target for online and offline missions!

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:01 PM
triggerhappyfin wrote:
<trim>
- As we speak about bridges it would be a nice feature
- to have some kind of simulation of wartime
- bridges(engeniours puttin them up instead of blown
- out bridges - a target for online and offline
- missions!
-

Yep - bridges/bridge-heads were the main targets for Mistel operations. Since the Mistel will be flyable it would be nice to have some pleasing scenic targets to crash it into.

Cheers

Athos


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