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walsh2509
01-04-2005, 04:51 AM
Well I have posted before on this and last night when trying again, I noticed after my crash "again" the other carrier in the background and a plane taking off from that, in the animation the plane, I take it would be a F6F, nose dived off the carrier just the way I had been doing.

As it was just about to hit the water it straighten out and was skimming the surface, so much so that it was kicking up spray each side of the plane.

Now I am no expert but if that happened in real life would the plane be able to carry on with that amount of spary being flung up? then after what looked a 100yrd or more start to climb out of that spray.

Well I gave it another go and with a tank down to 25% fuel I managed to get the plane off and up after I too had skimming along the surface kicking up spray..

Now I tried that on a full tank and I could never get the plane out of the nose dive, I always crash right in front of the carrier. But this time I just managed to miss the water and level out skimming the surface.

All the experts are saying that is the right Flight Dynamics for a F6F and the other F4F's, but one thing that worries me, if I can only get the F6F up after just and I mean just missing the surface and skimming it before I can lift it up, how do I get to a target and back with no weapons and only 25% of fuel?

Never mind with weapons, any more feul and I hit the water, as I said 25% no weapons and I just miss the surface , skimming along throwing up water on both sides.

walsh2509
01-04-2005, 04:51 AM
Well I have posted before on this and last night when trying again, I noticed after my crash "again" the other carrier in the background and a plane taking off from that, in the animation the plane, I take it would be a F6F, nose dived off the carrier just the way I had been doing.

As it was just about to hit the water it straighten out and was skimming the surface, so much so that it was kicking up spray each side of the plane.

Now I am no expert but if that happened in real life would the plane be able to carry on with that amount of spary being flung up? then after what looked a 100yrd or more start to climb out of that spray.

Well I gave it another go and with a tank down to 25% fuel I managed to get the plane off and up after I too had skimming along the surface kicking up spray..

Now I tried that on a full tank and I could never get the plane out of the nose dive, I always crash right in front of the carrier. But this time I just managed to miss the water and level out skimming the surface.

All the experts are saying that is the right Flight Dynamics for a F6F and the other F4F's, but one thing that worries me, if I can only get the F6F up after just and I mean just missing the surface and skimming it before I can lift it up, how do I get to a target and back with no weapons and only 25% of fuel?

Never mind with weapons, any more feul and I hit the water, as I said 25% no weapons and I just miss the surface , skimming along throwing up water on both sides.

Wolkenbeisser
01-04-2005, 04:57 AM
I like the fact, that you need a moving carrier to get airborne.

Maple_Tiger
01-04-2005, 04:58 AM
It is possible to take off with 50% and default amo from a Df carrier. Some have to realize that, in real life, the carrier would be moving into the wind.

Fliger747
01-04-2005, 05:59 AM
Experimenting with the new patch, I went back to the CVE takeoff mission in the F4U to see if things were as bad as advertised. Indeed they are. It IS possible to get airborne with the wimpy 8 knots or so over the deck with 25% fuel and perfect technique. However the sucess rate was about 15% with the retracting gear getting sheared off by the water a couple of times.

It does not 'feel' like ground effect is modeled, which might save your bacon at motorboat altiudes.

Wind, it's wind over the deck that is needed for carrier ops. Even 30 knots over the deck off of an Essex is a bare minimum for realistic ops. We can fudge a little on this when we are the only one on deck, but the real aviators usualy launched from the "Watch for Propellers" area abeam the island.

Wind?

MiszaNC
01-04-2005, 09:13 AM
I am sorry but I have to say that. What is the flight simulator without almost any wind modelled? We have nice turbulance and even "wind" in bad weather but we have no controll on its direction. I do not care about if the cockpit is in 100% accurate but I do care about the air around the plane and the air is almost never stable. How we can expect a "real" flight dynamic if we can not take wind into consideration?.
WIND WIND WIND Oleg give us a WIND!!
Everybody; W-I-N-D !!!!!!

SAS-UK-Maverick
01-04-2005, 09:28 AM
I dont mean to sound condescending or anything like that, but you didnt mention it above.

Have you tried lowering flaps?

TheGozr
01-04-2005, 11:37 AM
Oleg did a mistake.. just wrong.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=2571024952

IV_JG51_Razor
01-04-2005, 11:47 AM
Fliger747 is absolutely correct! You should be able to taxi forward to the island, abeam that warning sign, and take off without using water injection. This could be done in 3.0 - 3.02, with 100% fuel and a belly tank in a mission made with the CV going it's max speed, which is 56 Kts for the Essex class (30 Kts). Not only that, the planes would "fly" off the deck, not settle into ground effect for a couple hundred yards before beginning to climb. Whatever Oleg did, it has really porked things for carrier ops in PF. It's a waste of time even messing around with carrier ops in a DF server.

I'm pretty sure though, he is aware of the problem, and will fix it with this next patch.

walsh2509
01-04-2005, 01:48 PM
I am no flight sim expert, but to the person that said a moving carrier would be better! I forgot to say that these little tests of mine were in the "Single mission" mode and the carrier I was on was moving through the water.

In fact most times I nose dived off the front a few seconds later the carrier ran right over my plane and it blew up!

ps Combat Flaps ..

But I was told to get more speed along the deck not to put flaps on until the last minute!

Well I went through it all from Take Off flaps to Combat and Raised flaps with 100% fuel the F6F nose dived every time, and no matter what setting I had the flaps in running up the deck the F6F never got over 110kmh and though I got up with 25% fuel and that was luck as the gear went up just before I was skimming along the surface, the speed on deck even with only 25% was still 110kmh just as I left the deck as it was with 100% fuel?

Again Im no expert but (i might be wrong) should a F6F (full 110% power) not go faster with only 25% in the tank than it would with a 100%...



The carrier(s) in Single Mission are moving.

jrowland96
01-04-2005, 03:43 PM
I had the same problem/gripe about the Corsair single missions, and was told that the carrier in those missions is the smallest type with the shortest take-off deck. Before the change to the flight model in 3.03, the Corsair and F6F could still take off from those decks, but now they can't. Someone replied and said that the bigger/heavier planes weren't deployed on that class of carrier, so the single missions that came with the game are incorrect, and hence the problem.

I've never used the FMB, but I suppose I'll have to set one up with a Yorktown or Essex Class carrier to practice takeoffs and landings.

Anyone have any single offline missions like that just to practice carrier ops?

ddsflyer
01-04-2005, 04:08 PM
Since I don't fly online, I went back and reinstalled up to the level of v3.01 only. V3.03 porked the USN aircraft so badly they were useless.

Hopper_35thCAG
01-04-2005, 04:25 PM
S! all, I really haven't had many problems launching planes from the CVs. Even with a bomb load-out (minimal, 1 500lb bomb etc). Anchored carriers require a taxi to the fan tail so you can make the most of the whole deck. Set the chocks, drop the flaps completely (landing configuration) run up the engine to maximum power, lock the tailwheel, release the chocks and you're off and running. push forward on the stick to get the tail wheel up (reduces the angle of attack) then after leaving the deck keep back pressure on the stick, but not too much. The CVEs are worthless unless you're in an F4F or an SBD. I don't think anyone ever flew off the deck of those things anyway, pretty much all catapult shots I believe.

IV_JG51_Razor
01-04-2005, 10:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jrowland96:
I had the same problem/gripe about the Corsair single missions, and was told that the carrier in those missions is the smallest type with the shortest take-off deck. Before the change to the flight model in 3.03, the Corsair and F6F could still take off from those decks, but now they can't. Someone replied and said that the bigger/heavier planes weren't deployed on that class of carrier, so the single missions that came with the game are incorrect, and hence the problem.

I've never used the FMB, but I suppose I'll have to set one up with a Yorktown or Essex Class carrier to practice takeoffs and landings.

Anyone have any single offline missions like that just to practice carrier ops? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've got single player missions set up for all the Navy planes for carrier practice. PM me with your email address and I'll be glad to send them to you. That goes for anybody else. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Asgeir_Strips
01-06-2005, 02:27 PM
i dont want to sound whiney or anything, but this whole takeoff procedure just have to be a bug, i dont know what that website is called, but you could view carrier ops in the pacific and gun cam footages from both real life and Forgotten Battles... And one thing i noticed, i saw a hellcat take of with rockets and fuel tanks, and absolutely none of them have dropped out of sight! Same goes with the corsair... I dont think that anyone here on the forum can say that those new carrier characteristics when it comes to takeoff is realistic.. Afaik the only plane who tend to drop beneath the bow was the Curtiss helldiver... even fully loaded Dauntlesses climb straight away after takeoff.. And so did the B25's in the doolittle raid, that takeoff was extreme!!! I think that the takeoffs from carriers needs to be improved in the next patch.

sc1949
01-06-2005, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by walsh2509:
Well I have posted before on this and last night when trying again, I noticed after my crash "again" the other carrier in the background and a plane taking off from that, in the animation the plane, I take it would be a F6F, nose dived off the carrier just the way I had been doing.

As it was just about to hit the water it straighten out and was skimming the surface, so much so that it was kicking up spray each side of the plane.

Now I am no expert but if that happened in real life would the plane be able to carry on with that amount of spary being flung up? then after what looked a 100yrd or more start to climb out of that spray.

Well I gave it another go and with a tank down to 25% fuel I managed to get the plane off and up after I too had skimming along the surface kicking up spray..

Now I tried that on a full tank and I could never get the plane out of the nose dive, I always crash right in front of the carrier. But this time I just managed to miss the water and level out skimming the surface.

All the experts are saying that is the right Flight Dynamics for a F6F and the other F4F's, but one thing that worries me, if I can only get the F6F up after just and I mean just missing the surface and skimming it before I can lift it up, how do I get to a target and back with no weapons and only 25% of fuel?

Never mind with weapons, any more feul and I hit the water, as I said 25% no weapons and I just miss the surface , skimming along throwing up water on both sides. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try it with some elevator TRIM (about 6 presses), and flaps at Takeoff, then just at threshhold hit full Flaps, gear up, and then flaps up, first to takeoff (reasonably Short), then combat, gain control and fly normally.

VW-IceFire
01-06-2005, 10:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Asgeir_Strips:
i dont want to sound whiney or anything, but this whole takeoff procedure just have to be a bug, i dont know what that website is called, but you could view carrier ops in the pacific and gun cam footages from both real life and Forgotten Battles... And one thing i noticed, i saw a hellcat take of with rockets and fuel tanks, and absolutely none of them have dropped out of sight! Same goes with the corsair... I dont think that anyone here on the forum can say that those new carrier characteristics when it comes to takeoff is realistic.. Afaik the only plane who tend to drop beneath the bow was the Curtiss helldiver... even fully loaded Dauntlesses climb straight away after takeoff.. And so did the B25's in the doolittle raid, that takeoff was extreme!!! I think that the takeoffs from carriers needs to be improved in the next patch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually...a moving carrier at a decent clip, with 50% fuel, 2 100lbs bombs, and 6 HVARs and I can guarantee you will climb straight off the deck with no trouble a'tall.

joeap
01-07-2005, 02:38 AM
Well look at the takeoffs here. Even with 50% fuel and going full bor my Corsair still drops below deck past the bow.

video (http://pauke.ee.ethz.ch:8732/oberstguncam/Frameset/RealDocumentaries6.htm)