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View Full Version : DM BUGS please FIX THIS!!!!



Locutis_Of_OLD
11-22-2006, 06:37 PM
This is the kind of stuff that wrecks the fun in this game. I have a track, just one of many examples where the DM of the 190 is simply way way too robust. In this track I have an enemy aircraft who has taken at least 2 20 MM cannon rounds in the tail. This resulted in a flash and explosion and when the smoke clears there is only the stream of fuel. No damage on the tail at all. Now to bolster my position that the DM is totally out of whack the rest of this track shows an actual collision on the same 190 after being hit with my cannons. The 190 just flies away. This maybe two issues both DM and collision model but they are both totally used to great advantage by many and I would like to see them fixed. Now how and where do I post this track?

Viper2005_
11-22-2006, 06:39 PM
Online or offline?

All sorts of crazy stuff happens online, largely due to packet loss issues...

Treetop64
11-22-2006, 06:59 PM
Paper or plastic?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VW-IceFire
11-22-2006, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Locutis_Of_OLD:
This is the kind of stuff that wrecks the fun in this game. I have a track, just one of many examples where the DM of the 190 is simply way way too robust. In this track I have an enemy aircraft who has taken at least 2 20 MM cannon rounds in the tail. This resulted in a flash and explosion and when the smoke clears there is only the stream of fuel. No damage on the tail at all. Now to bolster my position that the DM is totally out of whack the rest of this track shows an actual collision on the same 190 after being hit with my cannons. The 190 just flies away. This maybe two issues both DM and collision model but they are both totally used to great advantage by many and I would like to see them fixed. Now how and where do I post this track?
I can see where you might post in upper case over 20 rounds of 20mm cannon but not two. Try flying the 190 being shot at and do it over and over again and you'll soon find there is nothing specifically wrong with the 190s damage model.

And if you were online then this discussion is pointless. Lag and packetloss are too variable to be certain that everyone, including the server, agrees that you put X number of rounds anywhere. Thats the nature of online play.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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BBB_Hyperion
11-22-2006, 08:29 PM
2 20 mm rounds well even when you hit in the right spot depends really on your ammo type and online lag state. However 5 20 mm rounds was approx for LW MG151/20 to down a plane irl. That doesn't mean it is down or explodes right away but is unable to continue df. The fw has one of the most flawed dms
some 50s on the wings reduce top speed by 70 km/h and the plane got already a rework of the damagemodel to partical 3d . Most fuel tanks empty at too high rates and simulate only 1 tank not 2 or more and the self sealing only works for calibers < 20 mm that is for all planes.

The DM rework didn't do any good. Asking to down a il2 with 2 20 mm rounds can be done but only a direct radiator hit can archive this(7 to 8 Minutes until oil is out and engine dies). Almost similar is the question to down a fw with 2 20 mm rounds. Pilot hit or engine direct hit can archive this but it isn't falling only when you say it should be so .

The effects of HE ammo on cockpit areas is more something to concern no pilot takes injuries when a HE 20 shell explodes near his cockpit this goes for all planes.

In general shooting from dead 6 has always worse results than slightly from the side. That has to do with the impact angle of the projectiles.

The real shortcoming of this sim is the 2d trigger zones on all planes , engine etc got reworded to 3d already.

When you want to post a track record it in ntrk format and you can post it on rapidshare or other free filehosters.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Locutis_Of_OLD
11-22-2006, 08:49 PM
I have flown the 190 and I say with complete impunity that the DM is not accurate. While it takes damage it typically stays in one piece. It will take 15-20 cannon rounds easily and frequently does and fly away. Yes I know it is typically not combat effective but on the other end I have heard single ping and lost a wing more times than I can count in a tempest, a 51 and even the JUG. I constantly hear 190 pilots complain when an aircraft doesn???t go down in one pass.

I have the track for anyone who wants it...but just to clarify this was online...not a dead 6 shot it was somewhat deflected and the tail suffered no damage instead the fuel tanks leaked. So you are saying this is accurate? And the collision this is accurate? This happens all the time. We should expect to have 190's fly right through aircraft and fly away? I think not...

La7_brook
11-22-2006, 08:56 PM
wow u should see the spit do endless loops with smoke coming out back with no over heat or E loss http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Waldo.Pepper
11-22-2006, 09:38 PM
there is nothing specifically wrong with the 190s damage model

Au contraire ... there is something wrong with the 190 damage model. All too often the 190 will take a hit and have elevator, rudder, and ailerons all disabled with a single hit.

I agree could happen. Should happen eben. My beef is that it happens TOO often. Thanks for listening. Less Prozac needed now.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WWMaxGunz
11-22-2006, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Locutis_Of_OLD:
This is the kind of stuff that wrecks the fun in this game. I have a track, just one of many examples where the DM of the 190 is simply way way too robust. In this track I have an enemy aircraft who has taken at least 2 20 MM cannon rounds in the tail. This resulted in a flash and explosion and when the smoke clears there is only the stream of fuel. No damage on the tail at all. Now to bolster my position that the DM is totally out of whack the rest of this track shows an actual collision on the same 190 after being hit with my cannons. The 190 just flies away. This maybe two issues both DM and collision model but they are both totally used to great advantage by many and I would like to see them fixed. Now how and where do I post this track?

An ONLINE track?

Badsight-
11-22-2006, 11:01 PM
i never fail to get a chuckle at these complaints

for sure we know exactly how things went in the middle of a DF for both pilots

we border on god-like afterall<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Xiolablu3
11-23-2006, 12:08 AM
The 190 was well known for being very very strong.

British reports state that the plane is imperveous to .303 or .50 cal from dead 6.

I have seen guncam film of a Spitfire being hit by numberous 20mm cannon shells from a 109 and all that happnes is a small ring of metal breaks off and the plane flies on.

2 20mm cannon hits really isnt that much, especially when attacking probably the 2nd strongest fighter in the game after the P47.

As was stated 5 20mm hits ON AVERAGE were said to down a fighter, that means there were fighters that took 10 20mm hits and more.


EDIT : I found it, count the 20mm hits, not even a fuel leak as far as we can see fromt he Spitfire, I see at least 2 hits, and the FW190 was stronger than the SPitfire. (It even looks like the Spitfire may be firing at something at the end of the clip, see the flashes on the wingguns)

http://www.zippyvideos.com/7732131003015986/spitfire/

WW2 planes had a lot of armour late in the war.

Vike
11-23-2006, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I have seen guncam film of a Spitfire being hit by numberous 20mm cannon shells from a 109 and all that happnes is a small ring of metal breaks off and the plane flies on.

A small ring of metal?
I'd rather say that this Spit suffers like in Hell! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The little flashes we see also seem to be fires!:

Look,the poor Spit is hit at the right,then at the left of the fuselage.Due to some incendiary 20mm shells certainly.We can clearly see the fires precisely where the two shells have hit,i.e. on the extrados of the wings. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

No chance that the Spit is firing someone somewhere else in a such bad situation...lol. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Don't mix up what were "IRL dogfights" and our "no-fatigue no-stress & no-fear OnLine playing"...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WW2 planes had a lot of armour late in the war.

I agree,but concerning the Fw190s DM,i personally prefer Me109s one.They can bring back the pilot alive to home,even with a lot of damage inflicted.
I rarely see the same with the Fw190s... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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rnzoli
11-23-2006, 02:27 AM
This happens all the time. We should expect to have 190's fly right through aircraft and fly away? I think not...
Yeahhhh!!!!!!!
Did you know that online game is based on discreet samples of updates from all connected PCs through the Internet???!!!!!!
Did you know that between those updates everything is approximated, and this badly influences collision detection???!!!!!!!
Did you know that an online track doesn't replay exactly what you can see in-game because it "smooths" out the movements by pre-processing the track files????!!!!!!!
Did you know that online hosts and server differ in network quality and anti-cheat settings, greatly influencing the accuracy of online damage modelling?????!!!!!!!!

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Xiolablu3
11-23-2006, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by Vike:


No chance that the Spit is firing someone somewhere else in a such bad situation...lol. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

r.


Watch :-

http://www.zippyvideos.com/7060498973360346/vs_spitfire_2/

There is no doubt that this Spitfire is firing at the Ju88 whilst under heavy fire from the 109. Look at the smoke under the wings as the guns fire.

As for the other clip,
The Spit flies on as normal, I dont see anything strange about its flying, do you? I am thinking it might even be the same Spitfire. Look in the first clip, there is a plane int he top right of the screen as the Spit is getting hit.

What makes you think its in trouble? I just see a ring of metal fly off it, thats all.

The more I watch it the more I think its the same plane in both clips. They are even named 'vs Spitfire I' and 'vs Spitfire 2' and at the end of the first clip you can see the Spitfire flying towards that plane in the top right corner of the footage at the end, which looks like its the Ju88 being fired at in the 2nd clip..

I am sure its 2 guncam clips from the same 109, firing at the same Spitfire, which is attacking the same Ju88.. I dont think those are 'fires' on the wing of the Spitfire, that would be just too neat. fires that size would be blown out.

I am open to more suggestions, but dont think that just becasue that Spit is being hit he would not be shooting.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Brain32
11-23-2006, 04:47 AM
OK first of all the FW190, only A9 and D9 have DM that is OK, others are waaaay too weak, A8,A6 etc are way to weak, also the irritating magical fuel leak is still hapening way too often wtf is with FW's self-sealing fuel tanks?
Spitfire can take as much damage as a FW190 and much more damage than a ME109 which is really like a A6M2 in regards to damage model, correct or not I don't know, maybe Spitfire indeed was heavily armoured and 109 designed like a Zero with no armour at all...then again maybe NOT!
As for toughness I often simply decide not to attack P47D if my targets or my team mates are not threatened by it, because I know I'll have to give up about half of my total ammo and loose a huge amount of E while I hold it in my sights for time long enough for execution http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
P63C is also a story for itself, can you say multiple mk108 hits with little to no effect http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

@Xiola on that guncam clip I saw only one strike in the right wing root, all other rounds missed....<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Xiolablu3
11-23-2006, 04:58 AM
Watch the first clip in the post above, mate. Thats the one we were arguing about.

The 2nd one was to prove that the SPitfire would be firing whilst under heavy fire from a 109, thats all. But as I watched it, it looks like a 2nd burst of fire from the same 109, on the same SPitfire, to me.

If it is the same SPitfire (and I am sure it is, its in the exact same position at the start of the 2nd clip as the end of the first) then it takes 2 hard hits in each wing, then fires at the Ju88, and then takes another hit on the right wing. And still doesnt look in bad shape.

So a FW190 taking 2 hits and flying on, isnt much of a surprise to me, as it was supposedly stronger than the Spitfire.


One more thing, I disagree that the Spitfire is stronger than the 109 in game. I find the Spitfire and 109 very, very similar in damage model strength, whereas the FW190,P47 and La5 are stronger.

Just my opinon.

From weakest to strongest in my opinion :-

Ki43
Zero
109/Spitfire/P40/Hurricane/Yak1 (about the same)
P51/La5
FW190
P47

Spitfire has the same glass jaw as the 109 and P51 in that one bullet can kill its engine. (and usually does). I have seen Bf109's take insane amounts of damage and fly on, and I have seen SPitfires do the same. But I have also seen Spits go down after one or 2 hits, and same with the 109. After all the averages, I see the same characteristics in damage from the Spit and 109. The FW190, however takes a lot more hits to down.

I have done a lot of flying of all these different types, and thats how I see things in the game.

Remember that if you are flying Spit V vs 109F4 or Spit IX vs 109G2, that the Spit is firing more guns at the 109, than vice versa.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Brain32
11-23-2006, 05:14 AM
Just my opinon.
Well DM mostly does come down to opinion that's why I respect anyones opinion about it. To further explain my POV on DM, I notice most people just look at DM in a way "how much punishment planeX can take before heavy STUCTURAL damage. I however have a different approach, how much is needed to put planeX out of combat, or how much is needed to neutralize the threat.
I often watched and participated in situations like this, I get bounced in FW190 by let's say a Spitfire, on the first pass I loose elevator, I'm wounded with a huge hole in my right wing and I leak fuel badly but I'm still in one piece, I will bail in a matter of seconds, but noooo, Spit pilot want's eye-candy structral damage, or nice explosion effect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif So I put my lights on and I start wild roll manouvering, Spit wastes ALL his speed to saddle on my 6, I bail, friendly comes in with E advantage and pwns stupid Spit, two secs later in the chatbar: "FW190 is a flying tank" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
@Xiola I just watched the first clip, I have a higher res on my HDD http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I still notice only two hits and that Spit is not going anywhere after those hits, wouldn't he manouver to evade further attack if he wasn't terminally damaged?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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R988z
11-23-2006, 06:26 AM
The Fw190 is real tough from dead 6. If I see a Spit coming it, I just keep going straight and let the aircraft absorb the damage, I usually still make it through, drop my bomb and limp back to base without too much trouble. Spit boy goes home with empty guns and nothing the show for it but an angry face. Mostly it's his own fault for appalling shooting from too far away. I usually only get worried when the pilot doesnt start firing right away but waits to get real close, then I know I'm dealing with a pro and my fingers start to move towards ctrl+E. But although FW190 is tough (as in IRL), it does have weaknesses, shoot it on the wing while it's pulling a turn and the wing will break easily enough, even with a mgs. It's controls and pilot are the other weaknesses, otherwise the structure itself is fairly study.

IL2s also have a major weakness in the wingroot, I have many time dived in to Il2 on attack run, nailed the wingroot with just 3 or 4 20mm cannon shells from bf109 and the wing just breaks off. Hard to get just right but extremely effective when you get it right. The 20mm is much better for this because you can aim it more accurately and put more shells in the right place than lobbing Mk108 somewhere in the general area and hoping something breaks. Mk108s are generally overrated unless attacking a large bomber which is impossible to miss. I have seen single engined aircraft keep flying even with one or two direct hits from Mk108, so now I tend to avoid them unless I think I will be encountering bombers.

He111 can be hell to shoot down if you dont have heavy guns, but again hit it in the right spots (about mid wing, fuels tanks or controls should go) and she will go down quickly enough even with Mgs or small cannon. I have seen He111s take all the ammo from at least 4 or 5 Yak1s and even a couple of direct RS82 hits and still keep flying (just barely).
But I have also shot down a He111 with an almost random half second burst from 800m on a very wide deflection, I wasn't really even trying, but I lucked out and got the pilot by a sheer fluke shot.

Yaks are also notoriously hard to knock out, especially the 9. I have taken some major damage in them and still kept flying, albeit barely held together and with no real hope of landing, just trying to make it back to friendly lines to bail/ditch. But I have also turned a Yak9 engine to scrap metal with a quick snapshot in P-40Ms .50s. So they aren't that invunerable.

All the aircraft have a weak point, the main problem is, finding it, then aiming and hitting the right spot, it's very hard unless you have managed to sneak up and bounce them.

Also if you hit someone pretty hard and they keep flying, just leave them, they are almost certainly crippled and out of the fight, just because it looks fine doesn't mean the pilot isn't dead or dying or the aircraft is barely controllable. The dumbest thing to do is zoom right in all guns blazing trying to finish him off, you are then caught low, slow and out of ammo, not such a clever move, for what, trying to confirm more points for yourself? You'll probably get shot down, so your 100pts is now a mere 10pts. The calculating pilot will let a seemingly damaged aircraft go to try and limp home, chances are by remaining alive he will get 100pts and with ammo saved be able to hit multiple aircraft with shorter bursts this way. So even accounting for kill stealers and aircraft that are not that damaged, he might shoot at 5 or 6 aircraft and get one confirmed kill while remaining alive. That's 100 points still. Mr Triggerhappy who gets himself killed all the time has to down 10 aircraft to get the same points.

MEGILE
11-23-2006, 06:31 AM
omg no tracks

gtfo!

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Vike
11-24-2006, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Watch :-

http://www.zippyvideos.com/7060498973360346/vs_spitfire_2/.

You maybe right.

But, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Let's have a precise look to the video link you posted first. (http://www.zippyvideos.com/7732131003015986/spitfire/)
Besides the two fires on the Spit "extradoses",we can also clearly see that the engine is throttled down (>the airscrew becomes more and more visible),also,the Spit's trajectory varies widely,in such manner that the German pilot has to reposition his plane.

For each of the two impacts,we also see more than ONE metal ring going off the Spit,but many other smaller going to all directions! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

So,why throttling down? Why changing the plane trajectory if the two shells did almost nothing?

>Engine dying due to the shells zone effect?
>Spit pilot wounded by the shells zone effect?
>Spit wing holes make the plane unstable?
>Spit pilot trying to escape/bail?
>All of these previous assumptions together?


Finally,i also notice that the German pilot stops firing on the Spit,as if he thought the kill was done (that i think too IMHO)

That brings me to this theory:

If the Spit we see in those two videos is the one & the same,then i would think that the order of the videos are inverted.The first video would be the last and vice-versa:

Please,re-look at them by this order:

-N??1=> http://www.zippyvideos.com/7060498973360346/vs_spitfire_2/

-N??2=> http://www.zippyvideos.com/7732131003015986/spitfire/

Then,you maybe agree with all of what i said http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Otherwise,if indeed video one is chronologically the first,and if this is indeed the same Spit on both videos,then YOU mayberight.

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Xiolablu3
11-24-2006, 04:30 AM
I dont know mate, its hard to say.

To be honest, the only reason I got so into it was becasue I thought you posted a dunces cap ( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif) after my comment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Now I realise its a party hat, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

God I am stupid.

(A 'dunces cap' is a hat you were given to at school if the Teacher thought you were an idiot around the 1800's in Victorian times, kind of a 'stupid hat')#

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carguy_
11-24-2006, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
(Wow. Excessive use of exclamation marks rocks, you got to try this, guys. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif)


Actually,it makes you look like a person with unstable psyche...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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rnzoli
11-24-2006, 05:48 AM
Exactly. Now imagine the mental state of someone doing that in the thread title, plenty of capital letters and exclamation marks, for example.... er.... lemme think... this one: "DM BUGS please FIX THIS!!!!"

I still didn't hear from him regarding the tracks for "crazy rudder assisted deflection shots", although


Locutis_Of_OLD Posted Tue November 21 2006 13:11
collecting ntracks as we speak

Maybe this thread was created instead of those tracks, who knows. The other thread was missing the exclamation marks anyway.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Zoom2136
11-24-2006, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by La7_brook:
wow u should see the spit do endless loops with smoke coming out back with no over heat or E loss http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

We can see that you don't fly the Spitty often http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JamesBlonde888
11-24-2006, 04:55 PM
I like to think the game gets harder because I am to good.

Delusional but satisfying.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Chivas
11-24-2006, 10:48 PM
Locutis your ping has been really high on the server lately, which may be part of the problem.

I think the damage model in this sim is very well done graphically but is very irratic in the way it affects the FM. Even off-line I've heavily damaged aircraft, putting holes in their wings a cow could jump thru, and it still takes awhile to catch and finish them. This goes for all aircraft in the sim, not just the 190.

I doubt very much that it will be fixed in this sim, so we'll have to just grin, swear, and bare it. Maybe BOB with its more comlex aircraft detail will translate the DM into FM more realistically.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VW-IceFire
11-24-2006, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by Locutis_Of_OLD:
I have flown the 190 and I say with complete impunity that the DM is not accurate. While it takes damage it typically stays in one piece. It will take 15-20 cannon rounds easily and frequently does and fly away. Yes I know it is typically not combat effective but on the other end I have heard single ping and lost a wing more times than I can count in a tempest, a 51 and even the JUG. I constantly hear 190 pilots complain when an aircraft doesn???t go down in one pass.

I have the track for anyone who wants it...but just to clarify this was online...not a dead 6 shot it was somewhat deflected and the tail suffered no damage instead the fuel tanks leaked. So you are saying this is accurate? And the collision this is accurate? This happens all the time. We should expect to have 190's fly right through aircraft and fly away? I think not...
Funny...few hits and my wings fall off my FW190 all the time.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VW-IceFire
11-24-2006, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">there is nothing specifically wrong with the 190s damage model

Au contraire ... there is something wrong with the 190 damage model. All too often the 190 will take a hit and have elevator, rudder, and ailerons all disabled with a single hit.

I agree could happen. Should happen eben. My beef is that it happens TOO often. Thanks for listening. Less Prozac needed now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I said specifically...I'm aware of that problem...it also happens on the F4F Wildcat, P-38 and the P-40B/C/Tomahawk II/Hawk-81.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Find my missions at Flying Legends (http://www.flying-legends.net/php/downloads/downloads.php?cat_id=19) and Mission4Today.com (http://www.mission4today.com).

Vike
11-25-2006, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I dont know mate, its hard to say.

To be honest, the only reason I got so into it was becasue I thought you posted a dunces cap ( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif) after my comment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Now I realise its a party hat, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

God I am stupid.

(A 'dunces cap' is a hat you were given to at school if the Teacher thought you were an idiot around the 1800's in Victorian times, kind of a 'stupid hat')#

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Don't worry mate! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I know you from the time i began to play IL2 on UK-dedicated servers many years ago now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif,

and I won't permitt myself to disparage you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

By the way,LOL for the dunces hat http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

In french,we call this a "bonnet d'??ne (http://www.nouvelliste.ch/casal/1998/juin/0806b.jpg)",which means litterally a "donkey hat",given to the bad pupils indeed long long time ago! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

@+<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Heavy_Weather
11-25-2006, 10:47 AM
i would have to say, that out of all the things i've heard on this forum about damage modeling and the likes, but no mention as to why the smoke from a smoking plane looks so cheesy, even after so many patches and add-ons. SO 2D looking in my opinion.

Chivas
11-25-2006, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Heavy_Weather:
i would have to say, that out of all the things i've heard on this forum about damage modeling and the likes, but no mention as to why the smoke from a smoking plane looks so cheesy, even after so many patches and add-ons. SO 2D looking in my opinion.

I don't see that, what are your settings. FB has the best graphical image of damage being taken I've seen in any combat flight sim. I just think after taking that damage, the aircrafts performance should be degraded more than it is now.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.war-clouds.com/sigs/jg27chivas.jpg

WWMaxGunz
11-25-2006, 08:57 PM
The GRAPHIC is not the damage. There are limited graphic states for damage and limited memory
to share with ALL parts of the game.

How many hits is far less important than WHERE the hits are and what kind of projectile hits
any particular spot.

Explosive shells make shrapnel which can cause damage on other parts of the plane.

This is a simulation run on a PC, not material objects subject to reality which has equivalent
unlimited CPU cycles and always perfect program behind every action down to sub-atomic.
BUT if you expect the roughest sort of averaging to hold then you want something with hit points
so that just so many hits will always meet your expectations based on some compiled average in
a hi-STORY BOOK and you will never have to cwy again.

ONLINE: there is so far a technical problem that scientists are baffled as to any solution.
It is distance and the speed of electromagnetic waves that we use for long distance commo.
Sadly, widely seperated PC's are unable to communicate instantly. That makes it very hard
for the other guy's PC to get data on you having pulled your trigger right now. By the time
his machine gets that info he may have turned a bit and on his machine you missed. Ditto
for collisions much as we all want everyone to see the same event.
There is another way than as IL2/FB. When someone fires and hits another plane or they crash
into another plane then that PC can be told what happened possibly 1/2+ second ago and the
hits or collision happens then to that player. Play RB3D and have someone shoot you to bits
who is not even flying towards you or in some cases is in front of you taking hits in your
view.
Oh yes. You can blow up just after a close pass of 100 ft away right out of the blue but
THAT WOULDN'T BOTHER ANYONE WOULD IT?

Why really think before you complain? Get those emotions out just like any other girl.
Don't figure anything out, just whine by reflex. Doesn't that feel good? Time to shop!

Old_Canuck
11-25-2006, 10:14 PM
....This is a simulation run on a PC ....

Then how do you explain all these bullet holes in the bedroom window?????!!!!!!!!

Seriously, if computer users in the '70s could see today's sims they'd pay thousands to fly it themselves .. uh .. I guess that's what we're doing now isn't it?

Had a great time today on a server with buddies from Czech Republic, Bavaria and even Canada. Saw what appeared to be French type going across the top of the screen: Blowing up stuff and getting blown up with our TB3s and I-16 hitchhikers and laughing it up on TeamSpeak. AT A TIME LIKE THAT WHO CARES ABOUT DMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <-------- excessive use of exclamation points to highlight my point http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif People with supressed anger will seek any outlet it's true but a flight sim? Maybe they'd be better off taking up boxing or martial arts.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

OC

"War is hell but playing should be fun" -- blakduk

Ratsack
11-26-2006, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
The GRAPHIC is not the damage. There are limited graphic states .... Time to shop!

Ring the bell for the nurse. It's time for your meds. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ratsack

Xiolablu3
11-26-2006, 08:43 AM
He means that when you get damage, it will not be where the bullets actually hit your plane.

There are levels of damage in the visible damage model, thats all.

If you get hit with some mg bullets in the wing, then it will look the same every time, no matter where you are hit.

Thats what Maxguns is trying to say.

The visible damamge model actually bears no relation to the actual hits, its a generic 'light mg damaged wing' texture.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

WWMaxGunz
11-26-2006, 12:55 PM
I'm saying there is like 4 or so steps no matter where the damage is done. Big hole you see
means lots of damage and not every time the damage is a big hole in the wing.

The people who need the meds are the ones that confuse code with reality in a this means that way.

What you see is only a guage to the damage the wing has taken in total, not just the skin.
What you see does not follow with all consequences that something looking the same but real
would have.
No PC is capable of what people here regularly expect.
Gee, the illusion could be better done... at some greater realism cost.

What I pointed out above. Who wants their plane to blow up perhaps 1 second after passing
within a wingspan or so of another plane online? Who wants to be shot by a plane pointing
45 degrees away from you? That's what lag and the other side of the solution-coin from how
Oleg went gets.

Ratsack
11-26-2006, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
He means that when you get damage, it will not be where the bullets actually hit your plane.

There are levels of damage in the visible damage model, thats all.

If you get hit with some mg bullets in the wing, then it will look the same every time, no matter where you are hit.

Thats what Maxguns is trying to say.

The visible damamge model actually bears no relation to the actual hits, its a generic 'light mg damaged wing' texture.

Oh, I understand what he's saying, old fruit, I'm just having a friendly joke about his manifest exasperation.

cheers,
Ratsack