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View Full Version : AI Improvements,,,



XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:02 PM
AI works more intelligently with aircraft. Have been B&Z a couple of times now (first one from rear in surprise attack).

AI panics and can stall if you get right behind him.

In stalls, spins AI will try to rescue plane then bail if it thinks it can`t recover. Seen this a couple of times (especially in 110s). Degree of success seems to depend on experience of AI.

They sucker you. I`ve been catching up to a BF that suddenly will fly straight and steady and just as I`m about to open fire I`ll be attacked by his m8 from behind (this may have been in unpatched FB?).

Wingmen are very responsive. I call `HELP` before I know it they`re here!

AI not afraid to fly real low in dogfights.

AI will ignore you if you are escorting and try to get the bombers/ supply planes first.

Bombers act more intelligently and cover themselves well.

Are they blind in cloud now?

Ummm....

Still issues with 12 friendly chasing 1 enemy (but i`ve seen humans do this).

Friendly inexperienced AI will steal your kill sometimes and even shoot you down accidentally if you`re not careful.


Anyway, more testing to do /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:02 PM
AI works more intelligently with aircraft. Have been B&Z a couple of times now (first one from rear in surprise attack).

AI panics and can stall if you get right behind him.

In stalls, spins AI will try to rescue plane then bail if it thinks it can`t recover. Seen this a couple of times (especially in 110s). Degree of success seems to depend on experience of AI.

They sucker you. I`ve been catching up to a BF that suddenly will fly straight and steady and just as I`m about to open fire I`ll be attacked by his m8 from behind (this may have been in unpatched FB?).

Wingmen are very responsive. I call `HELP` before I know it they`re here!

AI not afraid to fly real low in dogfights.

AI will ignore you if you are escorting and try to get the bombers/ supply planes first.

Bombers act more intelligently and cover themselves well.

Are they blind in cloud now?

Ummm....

Still issues with 12 friendly chasing 1 enemy (but i`ve seen humans do this).

Friendly inexperienced AI will steal your kill sometimes and even shoot you down accidentally if you`re not careful.


Anyway, more testing to do /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:59 PM
Agreed.
I was wondering if the AI is blind in cloud too.

RE: friendly rookie AI kill-stealing. Is that so unrealistic? Maybe a rookie RL might have done that too? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S! Simon.
<center>


<font color="#000000">It's my attitude not my aptitude that determines my altitude.</font>
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XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:34 PM
SeaFireLIV wrote:
- AI works more intelligently with aircraft.


And we still have the sniper bomber gunner AI /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


Was hoping that would get fixed....

Zayets
08-14-2003, 02:38 PM
TokarevSVT wrote:
- SeaFireLIV wrote:
-- AI works more intelligently with aircraft.
-
-
- And we still have the sniper bomber gunner AI - Was hoping that would get fixed....

I've noticed that too , but is not like in the pre-patch when a single bullet killed your engine. I was firing at a couple of DB-3's and noticed that most of the time first salvo misses. Next ones will be more accurate , but still not killing your engine or PK. This is somehow normal if you think that the distance is shorter. I find that if you calibrate the guns at 400-500 (only to intercept bombers) you can break away after the first pass and still you can damage the bomber.
What I think does not make big difference is ship AAA. Put 4 ships and try to sink one of them. You will die , chances are 109% thata you'll die. tried with 3 , I still went down in flames. I will try a low alt attack tonight. Maybe here is the secret. If you fly above them at , say 1500 m , you're dead meat.




Zayets out

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:00 PM
Hi everyone

You said that AI has improved...but this refers to enemy AI or friendly. Does your wing follow your orders without asking questions !?

Which orders should i issue to get some help ?

"Cover me" is usefull just to recall your wingmen because they stay in the back watching as 4 vicious I-16 try to hit me.

Sometimes "Rejoin" works for calling back but sometimes nothing happens and they happily return home without firing a single shot.

I've found that "Anyone help me" distress call is the most usefull but it's useless when trying to get some help in ground targets.

I've seen my complete wing doing kamikaze attacks on enemy airfields, when they use rockets (russian side) they almost never pull up in time and crash just after destroying their targets ! Has this behaviour been fixed ?

Good flight to you !

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Hey%20engine%20you_re%20out%20of%20course%20small. jpg


Nonsense, I verified the joints twice!: This was the answer given by chief Mechanic Klaus Stoeffel to Oberst Lotar Von Müllenbrock when he complained about some strange vibrations in the wings of his Me-262 during take off. This picture show that Oberst Von Müllenbrock's fears were in fact quite real.

Image hosting courtesy of Piranha Squadron Aviation Image Library. http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/index.php

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:16 PM
Playing russian fighter campaign, got jumped on the airfield, took off on the taxiway to avoid waiting in line. The 2 109's were intent on strafing the runway, and I managed to jump the 2nd plane, sent him down. His friend tried to engage the last planes as they were taking off, but there are 4 planes in the air by now and he's finished.

Escorting Il2s, but the enemy fighters have already been engaged by some I16s who are having trouble. I zoom down to assist, and one more 109 goes into the ocean, leaving me, and 2 I16s against the last 3 109s. I call ground control for assistance, and they send me the four planes from the other squadron (5, my leader, got wasted on the ground), as the 4 LaGGs come into view, the remaining 2 109s break and start running for home. We're near the front line, and german AAA is firing from my 9 o'clock.

One of the other flights of laggs gets into gun range of a 109 and starts firing at him, so he breaks 90 degrees and starts a dive, which fortunately brings him into MY gunsight! A burst of Beresins later and he's one wing less spinning toward the ground. I head for base with no ammo, and the last 109 goes down just before I land.

The Il2s have a safe and happy mission.

-----
****
This stuff never happened before the patch!! It's freakin' excellent!!! The odd generated mission now seems on par with some of the custom missions. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
****

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:44 PM
Hi guys

Well i need more opinions on this subject before installing the patch...so BUMP again

Good flight to you !

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Hey%20engine%20you_re%20out%20of%20course%20small. jpg


Nonsense, I verified the joints twice!: This was the answer given by chief Mechanic Klaus Stoeffel to Oberst Lotar Von Müllenbrock when he complained about some strange vibrations in the wings of his Me-262 during take off. This picture show that Oberst Von Müllenbrock's fears were in fact quite real.

Image hosting courtesy of Piranha Squadron Aviation Image Library. http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/index.php

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 04:12 PM
By the way all my observations have been tested thru a proper Fighter Campaign on Normal Difficulty for just under a week.

jagaetev wrote:


Q:"You said that AI has improved...but this refers to enemy AI or friendly. Does your wing follow your orders without asking questions !?"

A:It refers to both. Well, depends what you mean `without asking questions...`

Q:Which orders should i issue to get some help ?


A: `Help Me!` order is perfect to get wingman in your squad running to aid you, but if they`re occupied (as in on receiving end of enemy) they will not come ."

A2: Also ask HQ for reenforcements- They are usually available once (but not twice in same mission). I usually do this if my crew are intercepted by many bogeys. The Cavalry are very quick (about 1-2minutes). There was one case where I was told they were on the way and no-one came... Later I checked the replay and saw they had been caught by a group of 110s I didn`t even know they where in the mission area!


Q:""Cover me" is usefull just to recall your wingmen because they stay in the back watching as 4 vicious I-16 try to hit me."

A:Cover me I find is only good for your wingman No 2, who does the job by falling behind you. With the rest of them get them to attack fighters or ask for help. Only your No 2 will follow the `Cover` command.


Q: Sometimes "Rejoin" works for calling back but sometimes nothing happens and they happily return home without firing a single shot.

A:They`ll rejoin if not occupied in a dogfight. They automatically go home if low on fuel (shot and losing fuel) or outta ammo. There may be other factors like particular damage. You say return without firing a single shot! Are you sure? I`ve never had this. Is this in QMB?


Q: I've found that "Anyone help me" distress call is the most usefull but it's useless when trying to get some help in ground targets.

A:Select your team and order to attck ground targets, if they have the means to attack, they will and if not occupied with other fighters. If you want to be more specific then pick ACTUAL target type in the menu, say Train or Flak or TARGET ground target and select Attack my Target.

Q:I've seen my complete wing doing kamikaze attacks on enemy airfields, when they use rockets (russian side) they almost never pull up in time and crash just after destroying their targets ! Has this behaviour been fixed ?

A: I have not seen any of this in Campaign mode. Sometimes they`re hit by Flak and may crash or they make the odd error. I also think EXPERIENCE is factored into this also. But never have I lost men to multiple Kamikaze crahes (maybe 1 out of 10 missions). Some complained of it in QMB, but I think QMB works on different parameters.

Good flight to you !

And you! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

Message Edited on 08/18/0303:14PM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 04:52 PM
SeaFire, what a great post!!! Thanks for the info.

Ronnie

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<center>Woot! First online Kill!</center>

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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:25 PM
THANKS SeaFire

It's great to receive such a detailed answer, that's what makes this community so cool, about my question i only fly in offline campaign (don't have a broadband connection !).

The kamikaze behaviour was shown by p-47 pilots using rockets, i know this bird is one of the heaviest (i failed several times to recover after a 30 degrees dive attack) in the game so that may be the reason.

Concerning my lazy wingmen, yes the second wing never entered combat, i must admit that my first wing and myself did a pretty good job with ennemy planes, but after that i always love to visit enemy airfield so i needed more support. In other cases they just land even if i'm engaged in vicious dogfights !

Good flight to you !

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Hey%20engine%20you_re%20out%20of%20course%20small. jpg


Nonsense, I verified the joints twice!: This was the answer given by chief Mechanic Klaus Stoeffel to Oberst Lotar Von Müllenbrock when he complained about some strange vibrations in the wings of his Me-262 during take off. This picture show that Oberst Von Müllenbrock's fears were in fact quite real.

Image hosting courtesy of Piranha Squadron Aviation Image Library. http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/index.php

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:11 PM
TokarevSVT wrote:
- And we still have the sniper bomber gunner AI

Can't say I agree. I've flown a number of bomber intercepts in the Experten Campaign (That's with a fragile Bf109E), and have so far been downed only once. That was a pilot kill. If anything, I'd have expected gunners to be more accurate than that.



--
Joques
Ok, so you've got a Yak
That don't impress me much

Message Edited on 08/18/0307:24PM by joques

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 07:11 PM
Overall I get a different feeling from the AI. Been mainly trying big furballs and in the confusion the AI shortcomings are not so visible.


-- Still issues with 12 friendly chasing 1 enemy (but i`ve seen humans do this).

It happens...

- Because of her notoriety amongst the Germans, eight
- Messerschmitt Bf 109's concentrated solely on Lilya's Yak-
- 1 with number '23' on board, and it took all eight of
- them to finally shoot down....


---> http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/litvak/litvak.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 07:17 PM
* wrong thread. *

Message Edited on 08/18/0306:18PM by LEXX_Luthor

eskimo-FHmod
08-19-2003, 12:08 AM
it happened to me twice that AI squad mates engaged a plane that i shot burning before.
i attack, i hit. i can see smoke and falmes coming from the engine and i figure this guy has had it. obviously team AI didnt think so and relentlessly hunted those poor buggers down until they exploded. no kill credited to me.
i really couldnt care less but i think it is kind of odd to follow a smoking/burning plane while other team mates are under attack.

<centerhttp://homepages.ihug.com.au/~peabody/ihugSig.jpg (http://www.fhmod.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:06 PM
Hi Eskimo

Has it happened after applying the patch, because it was a common thing before...i really hated my wingmen when they did that, it was a stupid waste of ammo !

Good flight to you !

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Hey%20engine%20you_re%20out%20of%20course%20small. jpg


Nonsense, I verified the joints twice!: This was the answer given by chief Mechanic Klaus Stoeffel to Oberst Lotar Von Müllenbrock when he complained about some strange vibrations in the wings of his Me-262 during take off. This picture show that Oberst Von Müllenbrock's fears were in fact quite real.

Image hosting courtesy of Piranha Squadron Aviation Image Library. http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/index.php

eskimo-FHmod
08-20-2003, 01:43 AM
yes that has happened after patch and has happened once more yesterday. i might even have a track of it.

<centerhttp://homepages.ihug.com.au/~peabody/ihugSig.jpg (http://www.fhmod.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 03:16 AM
Sorry jagaetev but your sig is officially huge and annoying.

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Got Nimrod? Try the unofficial <A HREF=http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=4870c2bc08acb0f130e5e3396d08d595>OT forum</A>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:19 AM
seems the AI still has the 'Top Gun' syndrome.

ie. when in doubt just chop the throttle and try to force an overshoot, instead of keeping their E and using their superior turning ability.

it happens so much that its getting to the point where playing against the AI is just boring.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:38 AM
No Text

Message Edited on 08/20/0303:40AM by A.K.Davis

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:57 AM
Greetings!
A note on the 'blood-thirsty' AI... I have 3 approaches to this situation when on a campaign mission.

1: When I get a clear shot, I make sure the shot is fatal (to the plane) albeit eventually.
2: I have noticed that unexperienced wingmen will jokey for fire position.(I have read accounts of this type thing happening in real combat) In this instance I either do #1 or I let them have at it and stay out of the line of fire, but not too far away as to move in for a kill shot if they miss.
3: If and when they 'steal' a kill from me...I steal one of theirs the same way they stole mine. All it takes is one landed round before the enemy's demise to give you credit. Most of the time I just let it slide, as long as my side gets the job done and we make it back home safe, that's my main goal. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

These methods seem to work pretty well for me so far and I haven't experienced any unexpected deaths from behind of the friendly kind..so give 'em a try if you like.
-Regards PJ-

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:51 AM
Syx,

- These methods seem to work pretty well for me so far
- and I haven't experienced any unexpected deaths from
- behind of the friendly kind..so give 'em a try if
- you like.

I just had a really cool experience: I was on the six of an IL-2 in my Emil.

One wingman (he's behind me, and obviously after the same quarry) gets a little over-excited and starts spraying the IL-2, nicking me a little in the process.

The flight leader berates him for firing on one of his own, and he breaks off! Now how's that for immersion! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I see so many instances of AI behaving like humans (for better and worse) that it is actually a little creepy. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


--
Joques
Ok, so you've got a Yak
That don't impress me much

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:02 AM
Well I am happy that the sniper flak is history due to the patch.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:47 PM
Hi veryone (especially hobnail...how is your finger after all the work involved scrolling down my sig ? lol...i just changed it so i hope it's adecuate to your forum profile)

About the AI wingmen i'm glad to hear that some problems have been adressed, before the patch when i flew offline missions i just let my wingmen steal my kill.

With this procedure i saw their level and rank improve faster and i could in the end get a more experienced and valuable help in cases where the odds were agains me !

Good flight to you !

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Closehotencounters.jpg


"Oops...Looks that the Heating System and WEP controls are mixed !! ": Last radio message heard from polkovnik Lavotchkin. Any coincidence between this event and recent patches applied by russian mechanics to some planes are merely speculative.

Image hosting courtesy of Piranha Squadron Aviation Image Library. http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/index.php

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:38 PM
I have noticed that the AI is much more likely to head for home after being shot up and smoked.

They still have an annoying habit of gliding down for 5 miles into a forest though. If I see this at the end of a mission (after all combat) I usually end the mission just before they hit the forest, becuase I'm sure IRL they would bail or use some rudder to crash land in a field.

Overall it is a marked improvement though. I think the more experienced AI's are much better deflection shooters now as well.

Besides AI, I'm really happy with the new campaign tweaks as well. Having lots of veteran and ace pilots at the start of a German campaign is really nice and feels much more realistic. The missions seem to be more balanced too.
Now if only they could optimize the campaign somewhat....I get 30-40 fps in QMB, but sometimes lag out and ram planes in the campaigns....(German Army Group Center Fighter seems the best, but it still happens) Time to upgrade i guess.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:00 PM
Fly an I16 against a 109 in a quick mission.

The 109 just attacks and climbs away then attacks again after he has outclimbed you.

Axis ai does lots of B&Zing.

Something I have picked up though is the Ai hasn't got a clue how to fly the 262.

"Do unto others before they do unto you"