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yogy
09-07-2007, 07:38 PM
Hi guys,

a chance for some last-minute changes may still be there, so a small poll.

You know the "invisible airfeilds" from Ian Boy's nice desert map. You prefer that style of the standard european "green" runways whic we know since the original IL-2? Both have their advantages and disadvantages...

PS: No guarantee for realization http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

yogy
09-07-2007, 07:38 PM
Hi guys,

a chance for some last-minute changes may still be there, so a small poll.

You know the "invisible airfeilds" from Ian Boy's nice desert map. You prefer that style of the standard european "green" runways whic we know since the original IL-2? Both have their advantages and disadvantages...

PS: No guarantee for realization http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

TheGozr
09-07-2007, 08:38 PM
I want to strangle the guy who did the textures of the Italy map..

JadehawkII
09-07-2007, 08:57 PM
Invisable over a given area gives the mission builders more freedom in how to arrainge an airfield. However, if a standard green grass airfield was done up like a real one, then I would be perfectly happy with that. The "standard" ones we have (main runway with taxi ways on each side are just OK) Just don't place any buildings on all of them as most that do have these I find useless for my needs. Thanks for asking! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

lowfighter
09-07-2007, 09:57 PM
Is it possible to have both types on the map? If the density of airfields is big having them all "standard" will make them visible from big distance. But then since we can't populate too many (and still have reasonable performace) it looks spooky flying to target over ten ghost airfields. An example: the northern part of Kuban, each direction you fly there's an airfield in sight within 5 minutes. Hm not sure I'm clear, nor that anybody else cares about it.
Thanks for asking!

yogy
09-07-2007, 10:10 PM
@ lowfighter: There are already some of both types in the map, but currently the "invisible" ones are pretty rare.

@ GOZR and the other guy:
a) This is totally OT
b) If you don't like the map, go and help yourself. Did you see anything like the "Macchia" in the italian mountains before? Do you also dislike the textures on Ians desert map? They all come from one source who btw became a good friend of mine. When you insult him, you insult me.

Please just leave this thread alone. Thank you.

lowfighter
09-07-2007, 10:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by yogy:
@ lowfighter: There are already some of both types in the map, but currently the "invisible" ones are pretty rare.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for answering, and nice they are both there.

Retrofish
09-07-2007, 10:46 PM
I would prefer the invisible plate airfields, but with some kind of indication of where the ground is smooth and where it is rough.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-07-2007, 10:56 PM
I for one love the Italy map. Be happy we got it is my opinion. They are limited to what they can you use as Im sure some of you are aware of that.

S!

TheGozr
09-07-2007, 11:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">yogy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give me the tools i'll make some nice textures.

There are some things that are not good and this is ONE of THEM..

FlatSpinMan
09-08-2007, 12:06 AM
I like the invisible ones but as someone said above, some kind of indication where planes will taxi etc would be handy for making bases for campaigns etc.
FWIW I really like the Italy Online map.

triad773
09-08-2007, 12:31 AM
For me is simple: invisible takeoff area- a green swathe amidst a desert too much the distraction/

It'd kill the immersion with green.

DKoor
09-08-2007, 01:51 AM
Standard green. Just because.
Let's pretend they plant some weed on them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

muffinstomp
09-08-2007, 02:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGozr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">yogy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give me the tools i'll make some nice textures.

There are some things that are not good and this is ONE of THEM.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok, that's enough. On the one hand we are given free maps and -in this stage moreover participating in their design- on the other hand two users even manage to miss the topic by picking on a constructive contributer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

IMHO the map of Italy depicts the mediterranean theatre more than sufficiently as it comprises all of its beautiful landscape characteristics. Maps that steer clear from repeating tile patterns and cover whole Italy would take about 3 GB of RAM in IL2's engine being that old - who would be benefitting that from?.

@ Gozr, you're part of the community from the very beginning - so you had a decent chance (like me of course) - to obtain those creation tools. Put simply:

There are some <span class="ev_code_RED">USERS</span> that are not constructive and <span class="ev_code_RED">YOU</span> are ONE of THEM..

Gitano1979
09-08-2007, 03:19 AM
invisible ones give better feel of the field http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Feathered_IV
09-08-2007, 03:57 AM
Yogy, I'd like to apologise for my comment about the Italy map textures looking like a sampler. Seen the day after, the tone was very bad and I was wrong to speak that way.

While it is true that the map is not necessarily to my taste, many more have indicated here that it is very much to their liking.

As one who "can't", I have no right to be anything less than fair and constructive when discussing the work of those who "can".

I saw shots of Bessarabia map for the first time last night. It looks like the new bench mark for all other maps in the series. Incredibly well done! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

If it's not too late, I like the invisible airstrips too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/LukeFF/IL2/grab0002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/LukeFF/IL2/grab0000.jpg

yogy
09-08-2007, 09:09 PM
It's OK, Feathered_IV. Thanks for the flowers concerning Bessarabia... these pictures are from a beta, and final already looks different.

For the Benchmark: There is a race ongoing between our "Bessarabia" and the slovaks "Slovakia" ... I am really looking forward to fly some nice missions on that map also.

The result of the poll is pretty clear... thanks to you guys for voting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

CzechTexan
09-08-2007, 09:12 PM
That's some pretty scenery you got there of Bessarabia http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif The farmland looks realistic. Especially with the trees lining the edges of fields. Actually, it looks like where I live http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Friendly_flyer
09-09-2007, 01:09 PM
The Italy map is a work of art, and I'm looking forward to the new maps!

Mr. Yogy, if you have a say: Could we have a few of the road-runways (those invisible runways placed so as the runway itself is the road surface). A few of the regular ones wouldn't hurt either.

Vortex_uk
09-09-2007, 01:26 PM
TBH, IMO i think that the scale of the ground is a bit... off. At altitude, it just doesn't look right all seems like everythings been shrunk. Just my opinion, not tryin to cause any flamin

TheGozr
09-09-2007, 01:39 PM
Muffinstomp I understand what you are saying but when i do something i found more constructive for someone to tell me what is wrong or what they dislike as well as what they like there is no doubt I'm hard talking but I've seen map for il2 made on a rush and i think that if i have those extensions or tools for it i could and would of done something different, I flew and fly and make many things with IL2 and i know when something can be done better.
I asked to that person long ago to not place bases right on the border of a map for the new maps witch flying to land on those base look awful like landing on the corner of my kitchen table.. adding simply half grid of land around it would fix that problem. but NO...

The texture and objetcs ( hangards or houses ) of the Italian map is bad lets face it.. and it can be fix..
Some of the old maps look very good .
Anyway i pass many details but

Can always reach me ..
I just want the best for our sim and i see that much more can be done.

yogy
09-09-2007, 10:08 PM
Gozr, I will answer agin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGozr:
I want to strangle the guy who did the textures of the Italy map.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you call this "constructive"?

Also, it is not constructive to critizize the objects in Italy because they were there already there before Italy. There is not a single new object in Italy.

If you don't like bases on the corners, just don't use them. There are enough bases in the middle of the map. There are also arguments FOR bases on the corners of small maps, think about that.

To talk about time: This Italy-map was meant as a "training" for Bessarabia (the "real" thing). Nevertheless, it took us more then a year... Besides main jobs & private life.

One topic wich can be discussed, is texture design and placement. And we discussed it internally. Both is improved in Bessarabia. But still, there is no detailed input, just "...made bad". That is not constructive because it doesn't show a way to improve.

Sure, everything can be done better. But as you know... these maps are NOT paid for. They are an option for those who like them For example these guys:
http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/388104122/m/2341015885

TheGozr
09-09-2007, 11:52 PM
Yes the objects in the Italy map are from japan maps it seems, could of been other hangars better suitable.. So I do not criticize the objects but the way they have been used there.

The bases on map corners are quite all over the "MAPS" and they could of been done a bit different imo. Look again ...

Yogy it's good to recognize some cold humor some time..
So if it take a long time for you guys why not ask for FREE help no problem ? I know it take time for sure and head hakes.
Now for the maps and all the goodies lets see must be done and not to be done on mapscontruction, i will listen and built . I know Europe pretty well since i'm from there so it's not something have seen only on pictures..
This is a public forum .. do you want to have other maps ? Free.. lets me know.

www.gozr.net/iocl (http://www.gozr.net/iocl)

EJGrOst_Caspar
09-10-2007, 03:42 AM
TheGozr, I agree with you, that there is something bad on the Italy map. I dislike some textures and the placement. Surprisingly its me, that you want to strangle. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The map was a test for Bessarabia (at least for Yogy), but it never was meant as a rush map - and it simply didn't was (as stated, it took quite some long time). The reason for your discomfort with it, is our disknowledge about the technical backgrounds back then. Well, we could excuse for that, if we must (must we?). We had to start learning by doing. Thats what you would have to do too, and thats why I believe, you wouldn't produce anything better. Well, you can try - grab Photoshop, or PaintshopPro or Gimp. That are the tools I had.

Now - I would really like to do a rework of that map (Pimp my map!), but I doubt, it would be accepted by the high court. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Also, almost every recource flows into Bessarabia map, on which everything will be better anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

@Yogy: thanks for your efforts to defend me, but it really didn't hurt. http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

EDCF_Rama
09-10-2007, 03:57 AM
TheGozr
Private team (all benevolent) working on additionnal maps is a known fact since long time (almost 3 years), starting with Ian Boys maps. Why didn't you propose your help at that time, when teams were building their projects?
It was possible at that time: I don't have more connections than you have, and wasn't a special friend to any map builder... still I contributed to most of the new maps (in Ian boys team and Caspar's team)... this showing you that if you want to contribute to something, and if it's the right time to do so... you can...

Now, it's far too late. The work is done. Patch 4.09 will show the last maps done by the map building team, and there will be no other map (M:1C decision, nothing to do with benevolent team will).
So every critic you type... beside beiing harsh and rude... is totally useless.
maps are done and will not change, and no new map will be done.

I can tell you (for having participated), that building the new maps wasn't easy. That the graphic engine has many limitation that you have to deal with... for example, "placing a band of land around corner airbase" was just not possible in some cases (for Birmany, we tried many different solutions... none was satisfactory). We did many thing that were not normally feasible with the graphic engine (like having lakes and rivers at different altitude than 0), but it has a price (compromize with other features)... I will not go into further details... but your claims shows you know nothing about map buildings.
Nobody had some "magic tools", most of the work had to be done manually (that's why building maps takes a hell of a time).
And if you think you would have done better than us... if you think you wouldn't have needed, like us, normal humans, to go through the usual "trial and errors" process... then you just overestimate your capabilities.
Let me tell you that this is childish and scorning for the map building teams.

In any case... know all the work is done. So fly on the maps you like, and ignore the others.
Critisize everything you want... but don't tell you would have done better... your ego may believe this... but it's just an effect of its oversize.

EJGrOst_Caspar
09-10-2007, 03:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vortex_uk:
TBH, IMO i think that the scale of the ground is a bit... off. At altitude, it just doesn't look right all seems like everythings been shrunk. Just my opinion, not tryin to cause any flamin </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats an interesting point. In fact, you are completly right. The game engine doesn't support texture sizes, that would be huge enough to display the proper fields size AND prevent the 'repeat' effect (like seen on the italy map).
Bessarabia is unfortunately a damn flat landscape full of fields...
We currently are internally discussing this - but maybe we won't find a decent solution.

TheGozr
09-10-2007, 04:07 AM
Rama i never heard of it at the time. I probably was too busy doing some projects or doing the international competitions.. Or maybe it wasn't posted here at UBI.
I think you did went way over board there It seems that you sure know me well..and Yes better I do beleive.

Caspar I understand and thanks for an answer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif of other tool or extension for placement beside texturing with Photoshop. 3dmax terrabuilder, terragen etc..



Anyway contact me if you want gozr at speakeasy.net