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View Full Version : An aspect overlooked...re-fueling, re-armng and repairs?



XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 04:08 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but on the subject of realism...

Why when you land (online) can't you re-fuel, re-arm or even have minor repairs carried out on a damaged aircraft.

Hitting 'refly' IMO is not realistic.

After landing I would like to taxi to the hangar area just off the runway and see a message appear saying 'Aircraft being re-fueled, re-armed, repaired' etc... Depending on how much damage you have sustained would affect the repair time, or how much fuel you have requested, or how much ammo you are taking on. Bombs or rockets of course would take longer to load.
I'm not asking for a great deal of re-programming and animated repair crews etc to gather around your plane. Just a message illustrating the fact.
Maybe still have the option to refly or maybe only have that option if your plane is beyond repair.

This would make for a much more challenging game and add to the realism.

Just my thoughts...

What say you?
Oleg?

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Message Edited on 12/02/0303:16PM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 04:08 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but on the subject of realism...

Why when you land (online) can't you re-fuel, re-arm or even have minor repairs carried out on a damaged aircraft.

Hitting 'refly' IMO is not realistic.

After landing I would like to taxi to the hangar area just off the runway and see a message appear saying 'Aircraft being re-fueled, re-armed, repaired' etc... Depending on how much damage you have sustained would affect the repair time, or how much fuel you have requested, or how much ammo you are taking on. Bombs or rockets of course would take longer to load.
I'm not asking for a great deal of re-programming and animated repair crews etc to gather around your plane. Just a message illustrating the fact.
Maybe still have the option to refly or maybe only have that option if your plane is beyond repair.

This would make for a much more challenging game and add to the realism.

Just my thoughts...

What say you?
Oleg?

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

Message Edited on 12/02/0303:16PM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 04:14 PM
I believe that was Oleg who said this, but if it wasn't him, it was someone that knew what he was talking about /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
He stated that to completely re-arm and re-fuel(not counting minor repairs) would take half an hour in real life. Minor repairs would need to be carried with a welder and some metal parts, taking some extra time, if nothing needed to be replaced, like the shot up engine
Just like the 10 minute warm-up needed for engines in the russian winter, it ws removed so it didn't hurt online playability
Hope i'm right heh /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 04:21 PM
That's a good point, especially if it came from the man himself. But...
Hitting refly makes your aircraft vanish and another one appear instantly. That's not real.
Having an aircraft that refuels,re-arms, repars in 10 seconds is not realistic either I suppose, but wouldn't you agree that this would be more fun and be a little more realistic (more realistic than refly at least).

IMO it would be better than refly, not to take refly away but have staying on the ground after coming to a stop for a few seconds implement a replenished aircraft.

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 04:40 PM
I fully support this idea and hope the Maddox Team reconsiders this suggestion to be used for COOP type missions.

There are online wars where this feature would apply and add to their mission play.

I understand in real life the time involved is considerable for a ground crew to re-arm and re-fuel but some simplifications can be moddled.

How about these suggestions:

1. If damage is minor, aircraft may proceed to re-fuel and re-arm then continue mission with the current damage. If damage is significant, your flight has ended for that mission (you have landed successfully as in current configuration)

2. Compress Time: Make re-fuel and re-arm take a few minutes for the reason of playability.

3. Make the damage cumulative so the pilot may continue sorties until his damage is such that his aircraft is no longer suitable for flight and his mission ends (as I stated in #1)

Mtn.

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 05:18 PM
Just an addition to this, as Scragbat said "planes vanish and re-appear when we hit refly", so the true realism isn't an issue here.
I think it could be adapted to the scoring system though. How about if I take my plane into the heavens and shoot down a couple of the enemy. When I land, the score isn't added straght away. If I hit refly, I get the standard 100 points for my 'cowardice'.
Now, instead of reflying, I refuel, and re-arm, take off and carry on with my shooting. If I get shot down, I still recieve my 100 points for being RTB originally, but if I get another couple of kills and then land again, the first kills will be worth 150 each and my latter kills will be 100. This could go on for as long as I like, or am prepared to risk my score.
I really do like the idea of this refuel, re-arm, I think it would make the game play better, than having to hit refly and appearing 'as if by magic' on the airfield again.
Nice idea Scragbat, worth a bump!

<center>http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 07:20 PM
I already talked about it, about 2 month ago. Well, it seems that Oleg and his team will not consider this as an option. THey said it would take too long to re-arm or repair.

I said, we just don't care if it takes a few seconds instead, even if it's not realistic. As long as we can do it. Anyway, it doesn't seem to interest them much.

Nice idea though....

S~

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 07:43 PM
That is a shame.
They say an aircraft re-fueling, arming etc., would take to long. They won't consider this whole process just being speeded up for online play and taking only 10 seconds?
There are a lot of aspects in this game that are not real.
Why do they say that this implementation would be unrealistic yet they allow so many other unrealistic aspects to remain?

Why do they allow the pilot of a stricken aircraft for example to refly before that craft hits the ground or is destroyed? You can be shooting an aircraft to hell in front of you only for it to vanish into thin air when the pilot hits esc and refly! Why should that be allowed?
They consider this realistic enough to remain?
It seems that vanishing aircraft is considered realistic to the programming team. But they won't allow on-ground refuelling because that would take too long and be considered unrealistic if it was too fast?

Well looks like we'll have to stick with vanishing aircraft as the only option then /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

More Whine sir?

WUAF_Gen_Falco wrote:
- I already talked about it, about 2 month ago. Well,
- it seems that Oleg and his team will not consider
- this as an option. THey said it would take too long
- to re-arm or repair.
-
- I said, we just don't care if it takes a few seconds
- instead, even if it's not realistic. As long as we
- can do it. Anyway, it doesn't seem to interest them
- much.
-
- Nice idea though....
-
- S~

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 08:36 PM
This would be Good for offline singly player missons lasting a whole day, which can theoretically be created with FMB or better with a program to write the mission text files. The best thing is having to sit vulnerable on the ground if your airfield is attacked and you are not ready to take off yet.

-- or worse if enemy ground units come into range suddenly and not expected. Most immersive cos if you can't take off the long mission is over so under some frontline conditions you really sweat and worry when you land and wait.

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 10:34 PM
Welcome back refly issue! Enjoy your regular month off?

Look forward to seeing you in another few weeks mate.

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XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 10:53 PM
Umm, Scrag? Love the movies, but....

No wonder Refly is unrealistic. You can die and come back to life again! Also....
-You can customize your aircraft and paint it in anyway you wish. Realistic? I think not!!!

-You can fly the game with use of a computer? Realistic! No way! They didn't have computers that would run this game back then!

-Online?!! What the hell is online!?! This is the most unrealistic feature of all!! Since when can pilots fly with each other through a wireless signal and some cables!


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XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 11:32 PM
I didn't know that there were similar threads covering this issue. I have not visited ORR for quite a while and if the search facility was of any use here I would have found the original thread and added my thoughts to it.

I meant 'Realistic' not 'real'.
I am aware of the fact that I'm in front of a PC with a gaming joystick, playing a 'game' from a CD ROM.
In difficulty settings 'hard' in most peoples books equates to realistic. How many times have you heard someone say 'I like to play full real'? They mean difficulty settings on 'hard' or there abouts.
This flight sim is, was, has and always will be a game and the level of realism (AKA difficulty settings) just adds to the level of immersion.

I think this simple addition will add to that immersion.

Tis' all

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 11:45 PM
Operations (of which refuel, repair and airframes on hand) is out of the scope of this sim.

This sim is TACTICAL: one player, one plane (or even one crew member in some cases).

Sorties are the main event. Campaigns are created by sequentially linking [sepraate] sorties.

Thus, it is out of the normal timeframe for players to wander over to fuel bowers or wait for a fitter to patch up that "little bullet hole" from last sortie.

Players are already too impatient to get some altitude when they fly and fight: what makes anyone think they're gonna sit on a tarmac waiting for fueling and repairs??? Then are we gonna have to have AI ground crew assist with startup and pull the chocks?

This idea has very little of substance behind it. It just adds details where they aren't needed or useful. I fully understand why Oleg has no interest in adding this layer of minutae to the sim.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 12:18 AM
That's just your opinion.
My opinion is that there is substance behind it.
I am simply saying, why press esc and then refly. If you have managed a successful landing and have come to a stop, why should you need to hit esc then refly and break the flow of the game. If the aircraft is simply out of ammo or fuel why hit refly to stock it back up? Why not do it on the ground instead of having it dissappear then re-appear?
Better still why not have your aircraft replenished when you switch off the engine after a successful landing. You're then ready to start it back up and take off again re-fueled and re-armed without having to go to the refly screen. This would make for a more flowing game and more fun IMO.
Like I said earlier. I'm not asking for a whole bunch of re-programming and animated crews stocking and repairing your craft. Just a message after a successful landing saying you are ready to go again. I bet this would also stop spawn freezing.
Tell me if and why there is no substance to this?
Tell me why this wouldn't be useful and give the online experience more flow to it?

Stiglr wrote:
-
- This idea has very little of substance behind it. It
- just adds details where they aren't needed or
- useful. I fully understand why Oleg has no interest
- in adding this layer of minutae to the sim.

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

Message Edited on 12/02/0311:25PM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 01:34 AM
It's very simple. Because refuel and repair don't happen as quick as you can "hit Esc and Refly". Do you want to sit there for a half hour or more, smelling imaginary 87 octane fumes before you can start your engine (uh, which is another simplification for game play purposes...we dispense with having to perform all the real steps of an engine startup).

So, why bother to change from what we already have: you hit refly and have a new plane (or if that offends your sensibilities, select a new skin or loadout while you're replaning, so it can *seem* like you just hopped into another bird on the flight line). Either way, it results in some kind of abstraction. What distinguishes abstractions from modeling flaws or missing features is what appreciable effect they have on the real point of the game: flying, fighting and getting missions performed.

Wouldn't you rather have the abstraction in the ground minutae than in the modeling of how the plane actually flies and fights? Of course.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 01:47 AM
Stiglr old bean,

You seem to be reading things not quite how I said them.
I suggested you're plane being ready for flight (re-fueled and re-armed) the instant you turn your engine off after a successful landing, eliminating the need to hit refly.
Before this I suggested a 10 second compression of the replenishing cycle (refuel, re-arm etc).

My point was why get another plane with refly when the one you have is still flyable albeit for lack of fuel or ammo.

I never suggested hanging around for half an hour waiting for it to be ready. That would be ridiculous.

Please read my post properly before you reply.

Stiglr wrote:
- It's very simple. Because refuel and repair don't
- happen as quick as you can "hit Esc and Refly". Do
- you want to sit there for a half hour or more,
- smelling imaginary 87 octane fumes before you can
- start your engine (uh, which is another
- simplification for game play purposes...we dispense
- with having to perform all the real steps of an
- engine startup).

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

Message Edited on 12/03/0312:55AM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 02:19 AM
I think if it were added as an option it would certainly add to the fun in multiplayer games. To have a reason to taxi off the runway after landing would be kinda neat...
Whilest on the subject of taxiing; I think players who take off straight from the taxiway or completely disregard the runway altogether should be punished in some way (penalize points or something)... or at least make that an option. It seems kinda stupid to me when people just punch the throttle straight out of the hangar and completely ignore the runway, rather than taxi to the runway and line up for takeoff...

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 03:28 AM
Hey here is a thought.. If you want to re-arm, re-fuel and fix your damage.... Go fly CFS2. But don't complain when M$ never fixes their broken sims, Charges you more than the sim is worth, And never considers what the public wants or even what their beta testers tell them. Oh yea...where is M$'s CFS forum? Oh yea, don't forget the M$ stuff is easy to hack so don't complain about a Hurricane that can fly vertical at 800 mph forever, and has 88mm cannons for machine guns.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 03:40 AM
OK, I may have misread part of it, but now that I understand it better, I still don't "get" why this is so important to you to get into the sim.

If you land and turn off the engine, shouldn't you at least have to taxi to the refuel/rearm point? I mean, if you're gonna add detail, do it right.


If it's a co-op, then because some events are scripted to happen in a certain timeframe, you should have to wait the half hour to refuel/rearm, lest you perform some kind of weird "timewarp" while other planes do their deeds in real time. Meanwhile, the mission could be won/completed/ended. One plane per mission.

So, once again, just hitting refly is much more elegant. It's not like it's burdensome or anything.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 03:45 AM
This is an open forum for our comments and suggestions to the developers. You think I'm complaining? Well I'm sorry you think that. I actually thought I was offering a valid suggestion to the developers. If you have nothing good to say then say nothing. You may have missed the point.
Some people have agreed with me, and those that didn't responded in a far more civilised manner than you.


Jbodien1 wrote:
- Hey here is a thought.. If you want to re-arm,
- re-fuel and fix your damage.... Go fly CFS2. But
- don't complain when M$ never fixes their broken
- sims, Charges you more than the sim is worth, And
- never considers what the public wants or even what
- their beta testers tell them. Oh yea...where is M$'s
- CFS forum? Oh yea, don't forget the M$ stuff is easy
- to hack so don't complain about a Hurricane that can
- fly vertical at 800 mph forever, and has 88mm
- cannons for machine guns.
-
-



<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 04:07 AM
I don't know how this would work with co-ops? I only play online in DF's.
I just think why should I hit refly if my aircraft is in good condition when I'm on a DF server and I've just landed? I only need fuel and ammo so why should I have to spawn a new aircraft? There's nothing wrong with the one I've got. I landed it OK. With fuel I could get it back off the ground even if I have sustained a little damage (that's if repairs don't get carried out and just fuelling and arming does).

If the developers wanted me to taxi to a re-fuel point off the runway that would be great and a little challenging if there was a vulching element. If they decided to allow re-fuelling on the runway that would be OK too (just hope there is enough runway left to take-off again hehe).

I'm not saying that this is an absolute must and the developers would be foolish not to implement it. I just think it would be an improvement all round and would add an element of fun to the game maybe.

It's a suggestion, not an outright demand /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Stiglr wrote:
- OK, I may have misread part of it, but now that I
- understand it better, I still don't "get" why this
- is so important to you to get into the sim.
-
- If you land and turn off the engine, shouldn't you
- at least have to taxi to the refuel/rearm point? I
- mean, if you're gonna add detail, do it right.
-

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 04:18 AM
I agree with Scragbat. I've often thought of this myself whilst playing online. Neither of the options are realistic, but that's not the argument. It can just feel hollow when you run out of ammo in a perfectly good plane and have to go "oh well, here we go again...hit the silk".
How about a combination where if you land at a friendly airfield to repair/rearm/refuel your plane you get a small bonus score added to the kills you achieved while in the air last. That way you reward longevity and pilot skill but eliminate the "need" to land to aquire a new plane or repair/rearm/refuel.
You could also extend this to people who manage to return their severely crippled aircraft to base. Giving an incentive to stick with your aircraft rather than having no option other than to quit when the going gets tough. Kind of like getting a purple heart /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 04:39 AM
I agree with Scragbat. This "Stiglr" is not telling you something:: We don't need ground crew grafix to sim ground preparation. Its like how FB has no grafix for the hucks dog starter vehicles for those aircraft that need starting from trucks on the airfield.


http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Medieval/knight.gif
Scragbat::
-- If the developers wanted me to taxi to a re-fuel point
-- off the runway that would be great and a little
-- challenging if there was a vulching element..

This non-combat "vulnerability" does not involve internet dogfighting, and so is beyond the mental disability of the internet Triplane Ace dogfighter Noob to understand. The bad thing is this is also beyond what Oleg thinks flight sims are capable of doing.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 07:11 AM
Scragbat wrote (and what is a Scragbat anyway? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

[quote]I don't know how this would work with co-ops? I only play online in DF's.[/qote]

Well, the way most DFs are set up, they're nothing even close to realistic or historic conditions anyway, so I again fail to understand why you perceive any difference between "insta-re-arming" and just "Reflying". All three concepts are fairly "low-fi" aren't they?

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 08:31 AM
Scragbat wrote:
-
- Why when you land (online) can't you re-fuel, re-arm
- or even have minor repairs carried out on a damaged
- aircraft.

The short version...

because you would be 'down there' too long.

Then your post would be about getting vulched, instead. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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Message Edited on 12/03/0301:32AM by RealKill

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 09:17 AM
I kinda like the idea..

My take on it is (online play).


- Kills split into succesfull and posthumous (sp?) and I guess pending (kills where you've made but haven't landed yet). Sort of the same as now I guess.

- Full points only awarded for succesfull kills

When playing online, in order for kill to count as a success you must obviously land and either come to a full stop. At which point your airplane instantly reappears ready to fire up and taxi.

There would not be a refly button and this could be a server side difficulty option. If people want to add a delay where you have to wait 60 seconds after restarting before you can move your plane from a parked spot it would add a touch of realism but must be optional.

You could even have a area of the air base marked off that you have to taxi to afterwards. This could cause a lot of problems though, airplanes landing with a dead engine for example wouldn't be able to finish off. Maybe a third kill type? Unsuccesful for the guys who crash land, bail out in freindly territory, etc...

Could add another dynamic to the game... But generally when I play I could care less what my score is and have little incentive to make it back to base.

PS:

If your going to land your airplane (at your home base) with no elevator, landing gear, or rudder... Make sure to dump any unused ordance from underneath your plane. They blow up nicely and ruin your otherwise impressive crash landing. And the smoke plume will stay in the middle of runway for a while to remind you.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 02:38 PM
Hey how about this... If you run out of ammo. And in lieu of doing the realistic thing and breaking for home, you bail out to avoid being shot down by better pilots. And if your plane is still in perfect condition (meaning still flyable) when you bail(albiet without ammo). You get a -2000 points. And the -2000 points have to be worked off (even in successive games) before you start to gain any + points. Now that would be cool. Kind of like having to pay for the aircraft you just wasted. You could only keep your points if you plane is unflyable. Like missing a wing or something.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 02:52 PM
So you have 991 Demerits, Who cares about FB Brownie Points?

Or do the FB brownie points have any effect on the game?

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 03:09 PM
This would also add the point for vulching. As it is now, vulching is regarded as low-level play and is quite pointless due to the ability to respawn immediately, while in real life it was a valid and useful way of fighting.

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 03:16 PM
I like the idea as well, and it doea not have to be forever just eliminate the refly issue. Taxi to tarmack then she is repaired and then spin off again also giving u extra points for makin the effort.

Wariorbear

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 03:48 PM
I wrote, right at the top of this thread;
Just an addition to this, as Scragbat said "planes vanish and re-appear when we hit refly", so the true realism isn't an issue here.
I think it could be adapted to the scoring system though. How about if I take my plane into the heavens and shoot down a couple of the enemy. When I land, the score isn't added straght away. If I hit refly, I get the standard 100 points for my 'cowardice'.
Now, instead of reflying, I refuel, and re-arm, take off and carry on with my shooting. If I get shot down, I still recieve my 100 points for being RTB originally, but if I get another couple of kills and then land again, the first kills will be worth 150 each and my latter kills will be 100. This could go on for as long as I like, or am prepared to risk my score.
I really do like the idea of this refuel, re-arm, I think it would make the game play better, than having to hit refly and appearing 'as if by magic' on the airfield again.

Now, how clear is that. It's not the realistic point, it's the score point!
It gives players a reason to stay with their planes and not just jump out of the stricken bird at the first opportunity. We all hate it when a plane vanishes in front of us, because we have hit it a few times. But if the player had a reason to bring his badly damaged plane back to base, because it would earn him points, this surely can only be a good thing.
The longer a pilot has the same plane, the more points his kills will earn. It doesn't have to be a case of sitting around on the runway for ages waiting to be vulched. It just means landing the plane. Turning the engine off, waiting say 3-5 seconds, then a message flashes up to say something like "ready to go", and you're off again.
That is not, complicated, it would be an addition to the game, but if you want to just hit refly, you can! It's just that by keepig the same plane flying, I can earn more points than you....hope that's clear.

<center>http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 05:52 PM
Urist wrote:

<quote>When playing online, in order for kill to count as a success you must obviously land and either come to a full stop. At which point your airplane instantly reappears ready to fire up and taxi.
</quote>

But what if your intention is to switch planes? Change loadoouts? Get in a divebomber and contribute to your side's action in a different way?

All of these possible through Refly.Whenever you land, you keep your full kill points for the sortie anyway. So, what difference does it make if you take off again "instantly" with new fuel and a new ammo load?

You guys are overcomplicating this, and it doesn't add a single thing that's any more realistic or "properly timed" than hitting refly and "disappearing and reappearing".

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 06:04 PM
Stiglr,

You are really not contributing to this thread at all.
You have made your point that you don't like the idea and I respect your opinion as I do everyone elses.

But others do agree with what I am saying.

All I'm asking for/suggesting is to have the option of not using refly if your craft is still flyable.
Of course if you want to change aircraft, arming, skins etc... then hit esc and go to the arming screen but the option of carrying on in the same flyable aircraft would be of benefit.

I know you don't like it, I heard you the first time round...

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

Message Edited on 12/03/0305:20PM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 06:30 PM
I think stiglr needs to find a brick wall for himself, 'coz I am fed up with banging my head against one trying to get through to him.
Stig....if you want to change planes.....do it! This would be an option....that means if I want to refly....I can!....if I want to refuel....I can!....It's called an option.....it's optional.....if I want more points.....I can!......brick wall at the ready.

<center>http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 06:32 PM
Ohhhh... How about this one. You are flying around and having a great night. You just finished your 6th beer (or coffee if you prefer) and you really have to pee. In stead of exiting the game to visit the head, you simply land at a friendly base and taxi to the row of outhouses (new scenery required though). As soon as you shut down your engine, your plane becomes invincible! You can't be straifed or bombed while you are answering the call of nature. Then when you return to your computer, simply start your engine and you can be killed again. Now that would be a great function to add. No more rushing that visit to the head, or having to exit the session.

really cool huh!

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 04:56 AM
Ummmm...

Stiglr wrote:
-
- But what if your intention is to switch planes?
- Change loadoouts? Get in a divebomber and contribute
- to your side's action in a different way?
-
- All of these possible through Refly.Whenever you
- land, you keep your full kill points for the sortie
- anyway. So, what difference does it make if you take
- off again "instantly" with new fuel and a new ammo
- load?
-
- You guys are overcomplicating this, and it doesn't
- add a single thing that's any more realistic or
- "properly timed" than hitting refly and
- "disappearing and reappearing".
-
-



Solution to that problem:

Have it so when your still stopped after repawning you can hit refly and select a different plane.. Or have it fps style where you can select a new plane at any time but have to wait until buying the farm to actually switch.

Easy...

btw:

2+2 = 4

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 07:54 AM
In RB3D you land and stop rolling, engine off. Wait a second or two, and you are refulled, rearmed, and repaired.
And it works quite well in MP games.

Not very realistic to launch with only 25% fuel either. Makes more sense on an air start. But yet people don't complain about that.

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 12:08 PM
I support the polite request for a 10 second wait for re-arming and refuelling Oleg

It would be a good balance between realism and gameplay

Also in BF1942 btw you can fly low over the runway to fully rearm

Maybe you could insist that pilots fly upside-down over the runway (successfully) to get re-armed? Something challenging to pacify the Full Difficulty Brotherhood /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Ming

XyZspineZyX
12-08-2003, 03:06 PM
bump. please take notice oleg

<center>http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-09-2003, 04:11 PM
I support this option also.

Many of the posts hese assumed this option to be used for dogfight missions but I also would like this considered for COOP Missions.

Many pilots fly in the more complex wars where a mission may last 1-2 hours. In that time frame, it would be a benifit to fly multiple sorties by being able to refuel and rearm.

It would contribute to realism in that reguard as a Ju-87 could pick up a fresh bombload ot IL-2 another rack of rockets.

My thoughts,
Mtn.

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 03:40 PM
Hello Everybody,

I also support this. It is one thing I thought was truely missing in the original IL-2 Sturmovik. I used to play CFS2,however,it doesn't support bomb's or rocket's online. I believe that changed in CFS3,but I don't have it nor want it. I feel that with refueling,rearming,and repairing we could have longer and more complex cooperative mission's. This would be excellent for recreating longe range bomber escort mission's to Berlin in the P-51D and B-17G if and when it become's flyable (the interior is being modelling by a 3rd party modeller). It would also benefit the P-47D in escort mission's. Just imagine flying a P-51D to Berlin and engaging German fighter's that are trying to attack a formation of Flying Fortresses. The enemy fighter's are destroyed and you dive for the deck to take out ground target's of oppertunity. Then you climb back up and head for home to escort another flight of B-17G's to Berlin. That would make for some exciting and more realistic mission's. Now the time's for these three option's don't have to be realistic. I think 15 second's for rearming is fine since it doesn't take as long as refueling. The refueling time could be 25 second's. Repairing damage should be between 35 and 45 second's depending on how much damage you have taken during the mission. Now this isn't fully realistic but it's better than hitting refly. In the current cooperative mission's we have if you are killed or bail out your done flying. With these feature's we could,depending on where you bail out,continue playing. So if you bail out in friendly territory you could continue to fly. Or if you bail out in enemy territory you would be considered captured and be done flying. I believe this is a new feature with the campaign's. Correct me if I'm wrong. With that said I think Oleg and crew should consider this for the expansion add-on. I support this 110%. =S=

Semper Fi!! Carry On!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Squirral aka Wolf_Fangs

<marquee>Wolf Pak Squadron</marquee>

<center>http://www.sanfords.net/DarK_Wolfs_free_demonic_graphics/wolf15.gif </center>

<center>The King Is Coming! Do You Feel The Fear?</center>

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 03:57 PM
Basically what your asking for is what cfs had, and yes i wouldn't mind being able to land and refuel, repair or what not.

Alot of times i land i may not have any damage just need more ammo or fuel so yes respawning does take away from it. As for the post of welding and rearming taking so much time and not being realistic, whats the difference we have no ground crews anyway.

I feel this way you should only have to respawn when your dead, not from being shot up or out of fuel. Not to mention being chased into your airfield and having to get the work done and off again before your dead. Respawning a person can wait until the chasing plane has gone off then respawn in taking away from the game.

Personally i don't see it happening, it seems some things they just have no interests in adding to the game, whether it's good or not.

May you not become a dirt torpedo.

PlatinumDragon...

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 07:11 PM
Squirrel it's nice to see a constructive pos,a nd not a flame in sight. My thoughts on this came about from the (now ancient) Air Attack that was available for free on Wireplay.
Your plane could be damaged, but when you landed on a friendly airstrip, became stationary and turned your engine off, your plane was refueled and re-armed, then you could set off again.
I understand with this being a sim that there are people who disagree with this 'unrealistic' approach, but like all games, people give ideas to improve or advance the software.
All we are doing here is making a suggestion that would benefit off and online play. It would be optional at server side, so by putting it into the game, it doesn't mean that it has to be implemented. It's just the same as vulnerability on/off or realistic gunnery on/off. They are optional and if a server doesn't have what you want, you don't have to join it!
I think from my previous posts, you will see that I would like this, but I can only voice my preference.

<center>http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-12-2003, 12:28 AM
Hello Mysticpuma,

I'm not one to flame. Just check all my post's. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif It's just that this would benefit the game some much more. Hitting refly to me is just lame. But as you said,this could be an optional choice for online server's. I personally love flying longe range mission's. Having these feature would be a great addition for me and my squadron. Even online dogfight's would benefit from this. People could have mini online war's that could last for a few hour's. I just think this would add to the overall gameplay and also keep the game alive and strong. I really think alot of people will be leaving FB to play BoB instead. Count my vote in on these option's. Now if Oleg would just read this and take our thought's into consideration. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif =S=

Semper Fi!! Carry On!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Squirral aka Wolf_Fangs

<marquee>Wolf Pak Squadron</marquee>

<center>http://www.sanfords.net/DarK_Wolfs_free_demonic_graphics/wolf15.gif </center>

<center>The King Is Coming! Do You Feel The Fear?</center>

Scragbat
12-18-2003, 06:40 PM
Any more takers...? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Spinnetti
12-21-2003, 08:15 PM
Yah, this one comes up a lot. I agree totally. It doesn't have to be 'real time', but something would be nice.. A fuel truck, some busy looking mechanics etc...

Another thing that bugs me. After a mission, I want to get out of the plane. Get out, not blow the canopy and go lie down. How about a little animation of the ground crew coming up and your guy getting out of the plane?

WhtBoy
12-21-2003, 08:45 PM
This options would go along well with a limit on the number of specific aircraft available at a field. For example, all the 109s have been shot down except for the one you are flying in. If you land at a friendly field, taxi off the runway (don't want to go to the spawn area to avoid collisions), and stay in the cockpit for 30 seconds or so, then you are ready to go again. Maybe make it a full minute if you want any damage repaired. No animations needed, just a message saying you're ready to go. If you exit the plane, then it won't be available for 30 seconds or a minute depending on whether or not it needed to be repaired. When it is ready anyone at that field can grab it.

No front end coding necessary at all, just server side code. Save the front end stuff for when the team is bored.

As a former Air Warrior pilot I live for the strategic as well as tactical. Options like this would add a new dimension to online play, making it much less of a meaningless pi$$ing contest. Unfortunately, those with very small genitals who feel that their manhood is directly proportional to how many kills they have will probably dispute this added dimension. Hopefully no one will pay much attention to them.

-WhtBoy.

FW190fan
12-23-2003, 10:17 AM
I'd love a refuel and rearm option, or even the ability to go to the supply depot and get myself a new Focke-Wulf fresh from Bremen http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

All the better to catch those damned bombers on their outbound leg.

I'd also like to see my prop spin a little longer after shutting down the 801 please http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-G2-33s_small.jpg

Jippo01
12-23-2003, 11:33 AM
Waste of development time if you ask me.


-jippo

LeLv28 - Fighting for independency since 2002
http://www.lelv28.com

Falkster's Ju-88 fan site:
www.ju88.de.tf (http://www.ju88.de.tf)

LEXX_Luthor
12-23-2003, 12:25 PM
-- Waste of development time if you ask me.
~jippo

If you mean for online only, perhaps, but for offline multiple sorties this should be easy to program.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>They managed to fly about 15-16 missions per day each! No other Romanian group made as many sorties in one day, as the 8th Assault Group did then. There was always a patrulă in the air covering the infantrymen. Thus they managed to rescue the lives of more than 10,000 men. Five assault aircraft were lost, as were two pilots. The other three were rescued by their comrades.

~ http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/g8as.htm
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



__________________
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Cossack13
12-26-2003, 09:28 AM
Oleg has previously commented on this and has said that it would not be realistic unless you sat there for an hour+ while the ground crews worked on your aircraft.

This request comes up every so often but the development team is working on more exciting stuff.

http://members.verizon.net/~vze2cb22/KosSig.gif

LeadSpitter_
12-26-2003, 03:46 PM
battle of britian crews were able to rearm and refuel hurricanes individual in under 5 min if it went smoothly repairing damage is a different story hours and hours if engine damage but less time to patch holes and repair broken control surface cables.

The trim is faster then reality, landing gear stability and dragging a wing on the ground with no damage isnt really realistic so in my opinion its a sorry excuse of not having it in the game.

If we had open hangers we can taxi to have to sit there for 10-20 seconds that rearm and refuel it would bring alot to FB. and for grass runways pull up to a fuel truck and ammo depo

It would also give bombers the chance to hit planes refueling rather then circling above and bombing the a plane that just spawned on a pad after being shotdown which isnt realistic at all either so i dont see the big deal and would bring more realism

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LEXX_Luthor
12-26-2003, 06:23 PM
Don't anybody let the Noobs trick you. Refitting to take off again back into combat is very immersive, and happened very often in real life. However one would need to design much longer lasting missions that would spawn AI aircraft long after mission start...to simulate a continuing front line battle or incoming and returning strategic bombers/escorts. You don't want to be the only airplane taking off later in the day. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

__________________
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OsA_FW
12-28-2003, 10:41 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I support the idea http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

when landed I think that stoping and shutting engine off , you aircraft get repaired,l...etc
and you can go to fight again

current system is too Quakeish ...

S!

S.quirrel
01-01-2004, 07:40 PM
I support the idea and i agree with jbodien1`s comments but instead of becoming invincible taxi into an open hanger (camoflage) and shut of the engine do what ya need. The aircaft has been turned, ready for start up. If it takes to long speed up time (how real is that?) Use the RAF ground crew times as absolute max.
I know this would not work online. But I think this would be a bonus in single player missions
I realise oleg might not like to see this but IMHO with the way pcs are developing and use of the web it may be about time developers started looking at this as a feature as there does seem at least equal support for and against it.
Incidently I flew CFS 2 avidly for a long time and never found a refuel \ rearm feature. If a simmer takes the time to take part in a mission that takes an hour or more they should have the OPTION of doing so. I have considered it a missing element for a long time.come on maddox games what d`ya say. Ok so not now but maybe sometime in the future in the future ? P.s. Move over m$ theres a new flight sim king around
P.P.s no... i am not the guy from Wolf Pak squadron !!

Mysticpuma2003
01-03-2004, 06:00 PM
Cossack13.............and re-flying and making your plane vanish while in mid-air is real?

It's just another immersive addition, it's a game....honest!

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

Cossack13
01-03-2004, 11:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mysticpuma2003:
Cossack13.............and re-flying and making your plane vanish while in mid-air is real?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wouldn't know as I've never even seen that done.

http://members.verizon.net/~vze2cb22/KosSig.gif

Mysticpuma2003
01-04-2004, 03:21 AM
Lucky man. I love following a plane, taking a wing off, and then seeing him plummit into the ground. I hate seeing, though not often, a wing sawn off and a plane spiral.....into thin air, as the bugger hits refly and vanishes.
In no-way am I having a pop at you, just pointing out that , REAL would be nice, but as it's a game, there is no-need for an extended time-span to re-fuel and re-arm. Just a 10-15 second wait. THat's about the long and short of it.

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

Huxley_S
01-11-2004, 10:47 PM
What if there were some spare planes already at the airstrip, ready fuelled and armed waiting for you to taxi up to and jump into - leaving the ground crew to service your other plane.

I'm thinking mostly for offline play. It would be nice if you run out of ammo or you suffer some minor damage or a fuel leak early in the mission and the mission objectives haven't been met that you can still have a chance of participating.