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Low_Flyer_MkVb
07-22-2007, 04:54 PM
Just rediscovered a passage from a book of mine that has rekindled a question I've asked before. It reads:-

'Aided by his trusty sergeant Mertens, Hartmann slipped into the Messerschmitt's narrow cockpit and completed his preflight check. The mechanics took turns hand-cranking the high-whining inertia starter. The engine burst into life with chugging and puffs of exhaust smoke. After checking his instrument panel guages, the tense ace taxied to the runway. He signalled thanks to his crew chief, tightened his seat belt, pulled back the throttle (unlike the controls in U.S. aircraft, the Messerchmitt throttle is pulled back to increase power and pushed forward to reduce it) and released the brakes.'

It's from a chapter entitled 'Air War's Top Ace' by Will Deac in an American book called 'WWII Air War. The Men. The Machines. The Missions' 1998 CSM, The National Historical Society and Cowles Enthusiast Media/History Group. Bearing the words 'from the publishers of Aviation History' on the gront cover. ISBN 1-558-36193-6. Reprint of a 1996 edition.

Hardback A-4 landscape format, colour full-page artwork for each chapter and lots of photographs, you know the sort of thing, I'm sure.

So, was the 109's throttle pulled or pushed? Or should I close this book and never open it again, as someone once said?

Low_Flyer_MkVb
07-22-2007, 04:54 PM
Just rediscovered a passage from a book of mine that has rekindled a question I've asked before. It reads:-

'Aided by his trusty sergeant Mertens, Hartmann slipped into the Messerschmitt's narrow cockpit and completed his preflight check. The mechanics took turns hand-cranking the high-whining inertia starter. The engine burst into life with chugging and puffs of exhaust smoke. After checking his instrument panel guages, the tense ace taxied to the runway. He signalled thanks to his crew chief, tightened his seat belt, pulled back the throttle (unlike the controls in U.S. aircraft, the Messerchmitt throttle is pulled back to increase power and pushed forward to reduce it) and released the brakes.'

It's from a chapter entitled 'Air War's Top Ace' by Will Deac in an American book called 'WWII Air War. The Men. The Machines. The Missions' 1998 CSM, The National Historical Society and Cowles Enthusiast Media/History Group. Bearing the words 'from the publishers of Aviation History' on the gront cover. ISBN 1-558-36193-6. Reprint of a 1996 edition.

Hardback A-4 landscape format, colour full-page artwork for each chapter and lots of photographs, you know the sort of thing, I'm sure.

So, was the 109's throttle pulled or pushed? Or should I close this book and never open it again, as someone once said?

leitmotiv
07-22-2007, 07:07 PM
Wait a minute! I thought only French aircraft had "reverse" throttles!

3.JG51_BigBear
07-22-2007, 07:11 PM
I think the Storch had a "backward" throttle.

FritzGryphon
07-22-2007, 07:14 PM
Just look at the throttle in IL-2.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
07-22-2007, 07:23 PM
Me? In a Blue 'plane? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif (kidding)



It's a 'pusher' in the sim, but is this correct? Or is the book 'avin' a larf, as we say round these parts?

danjama
07-23-2007, 01:47 AM
Im not sure.

BGs_Ricky
07-23-2007, 03:27 AM
In the Bf-109 you had to push the throttle to increase power. II/JG77 suffered some accidents when they were equipped with Macchis 205 in late '43 because in italian planes (like in french ones) the throttle was reversed.

JG53Frankyboy
07-23-2007, 03:31 AM
indeed, in german planes you had to puch the trottle forward to give more pore.

so at least in this the mentioned book is not correct.

leitmotiv
07-23-2007, 03:34 AM
That is news to me about the Italian throttles, and I am glad to have the German throttle business cleared-up. Looked funny but always wise to get verification.

Friendly_flyer
07-23-2007, 03:42 AM
Oh dear, there LFs book went from tabletop pride to doorstopper in a jiffy.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
07-23-2007, 04:30 AM
Nice one, FF! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Thanks for clearing that one up, chaps. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

trumper
07-23-2007, 08:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
indeed, in german planes you had to puch the trottle forward to give more pore.

so at least in this the mentioned book is not correct. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif It makes you wonder how much more of the book is inaccurate.

stalkervision
07-23-2007, 05:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
Just rediscovered a passage from a book of mine that has rekindled a question I've asked before. It reads:-

'Aided by his trusty sergeant Mertens, Hartmann slipped into the Messerschmitt's narrow cockpit and completed his preflight check. The mechanics took turns hand-cranking the high-whining inertia starter. The engine burst into life with chugging and puffs of exhaust smoke. After checking his instrument panel guages, the tense ace taxied to the runway. He signalled thanks to his crew chief, tightened his seat belt, pulled back the throttle (unlike the controls in U.S. aircraft, the Messerchmitt throttle is pulled back to increase power and pushed forward to reduce it) and released the brakes.'

It's from a chapter entitled 'Air War's Top Ace' by Will Deac in an American book called 'WWII Air War. The Men. The Machines. The Missions' 1998 CSM, The National Historical Society and Cowles Enthusiast Media/History Group. Bearing the words 'from the publishers of Aviation History' on the gront cover. ISBN 1-558-36193-6. Reprint of a 1996 edition.

Hardback A-4 landscape format, colour full-page artwork for each chapter and lots of photographs, you know the sort of thing, I'm sure.

So, was the 109's throttle pulled or pushed? Or should I close this book and never open it again, as someone once said? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I say this book is "bogus".. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Get "The Blond Knight of Germany" the true autobiography about Erich Hartman.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
07-24-2007, 06:24 AM
I dunno - the chapter on Hartman is certainly no hatchet-job. Just curious about the throttle bit.

Am I alone in thinking 'The Blonde Knight of Germany' is a title that could send out the wrong message? Why not 'Ace of Aces, 'Top Gun' or something less provocative?

JG53Frankyboy
07-24-2007, 06:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
.......
Am I alone in thinking 'The Blonde Knight of Germany' is a title that could send out the wrong message?.......... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no.
its a book of its time - the cold war.when reading it, one should keep that in mind.

stalkervision
07-24-2007, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Aided by his trusty sergeant Mertens, Hartmann slipped into the Messerschmitt's narrow cockpit and completed his preflight check. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Pss... Erich always called his crew chief "Bimmel" because they were very good friends. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

btw in the book take off procedures were mentioned but no where does it say..

"After checking his instrument panel guages, the tense ace taxied to the runway. He signalled thanks to his crew chief, tightened his seat belt, pulled back the throttle (unlike the controls in U.S. aircraft, the Messerchmitt throttle is pulled back to increase power and pushed forward to reduce it) and released the brakes."

seems this author was paraphrasing a whole lot from the book and got a whole lot wrong. No where does it say Erich "pulled" the throttle back to increase power. He has also left a whole lot out of the starting procedure for the 109..

and he apparently was making this up all by himself..!

"the Messerchmitt throttle is pulled back to increase power and pushed forward to reduce it) and released the brakes."


"and released the brakes." WTF! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


get the book. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It is excellent... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

dswo
07-27-2007, 10:02 AM
I've had the same question. When Mike Spick describes the 109G in his book Luftwaffe Fighter Aces: The Jagdflieger and Their Tactics and Techniques (1996), he says "back to accelerate was standard continental practice" (p. 199). But Edward H. Sims, in The Fighter Pilots: A Comparative Study of the Royal Air Force, the Luftwaffe and the USAAF (1967), always describes the German pilots as throttling forward to accelerate.

Tte_Costa
07-27-2007, 10:15 AM
S. All gents.
Few years ago I got the oportunity to meet a 109 G6 pilot ( sadly passed away ) and he told me that he has to pull back the throtle to increase power.
Saludos Costa.

danjama
07-27-2007, 10:29 AM
maybe it was just different depending on the factory it was built? or country? ...

Low_Flyer_MkVb
07-27-2007, 10:53 AM
The plot thickens...I've been through Eric Brown's 'Wings of the Luftwaffe' and can find no mention of throttle movement either way. Think that Brown would have mentioned something so different.....curiouser and curiouser....

JG53Frankyboy
07-27-2007, 10:56 AM
sorry, but, in german build planes the throttle moved forward to open power.

whatever this 109 veteran rememberd , sorry to him.
flew he spanish build Buchons with Hispano engines perhaps ?
but that would not be a 109G-6 pilot , so no go........

Grendel-B
07-27-2007, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
It's from a chapter entitled 'Air War's Top Ace' by Will Deac in an American book called 'WWII Air War. The Men. The Machines. The Missions' 1998 CSM, The National Historical Society and Cowles Enthusiast Media/History Group.

So, was the 109's throttle pulled or pushed? Or should I close this book and never open it again, as someone once said? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You pushed the throttle in 109.
Very, very basic error in the book... Wonder how many others you could find ...
Wouldn't put much trust into that book.