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View Full Version : idea for more immersion again!!!



Frenchminem
03-27-2005, 02:43 PM
I got an idea... maybe someone else thought to this before... but i was just wishing that when we'd start a new campaign (so a new plane...) or changing planes materila during campaigns themselves, we could have had a training, on our new planes, to learn how to use them... which are the characteritics, like all the pilots did during wars... before fightin...
(like on some car games, were you got to succeed your drivin' aptitude to start...)
cuz i'd never piloted aircraft, and it looks like each time I change plane , I have to learn all again... or a new technology is appearing...
so... try to think to this for BoB...
cuz I think the game atmosphere is important... maybe even more than graphics... (let's give us the impression we're true pilots... in a true squad... in a true army... even more...)

Blackdog5555
03-27-2005, 03:07 PM
Oleg stated that he wasnt going to do pre-flight checks. I think learning pre-flight and a having a small training mission would be perfect. Game has great replay value but the games lack any resemblance of interaction. Like B17 mighty eight you had a briefing room and faces of a crew. you also had a decent debrief room. Little things like that make a big difference. USNF had cinematic cut scenes with added to immersion. Wings of Glory had cut scenes and interaction with squad mates in the barracks. Chasing girls in a bar in town would be nice too. Im not holding my breath.

p1ngu666
03-27-2005, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frenchminem:
I got an idea... maybe someone else thought to this before... but i was just wishing that when we'd start a new campaign (so a new plane...) or changing planes materila during campaigns themselves, we could have had a training, on our new planes, to learn how to use them... which are the characteritics, like all the pilots did during wars... before fightin...
(like on some car games, were you got to succeed your drivin' aptitude to start...)
cuz i'd never piloted aircraft, and it looks like each time I change plane , I have to learn all again... or a new technology is appearing...
so... try to think to this for BoB...
cuz I think the game atmosphere is important... maybe even more than graphics... (let's give us the impression we're true pilots... in a true squad... in a true army... even more...) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pilots where often put into new aircraft and flew into combat, like in book im reading, flying at night into action in hurri, first time he had flown hurri at night http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
guy also went from hind (biplane, no flaps, fixed undercarge) fixed pitch prop to spitfire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

they normaly read the pilot's notes before tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

other guys did similer while converting onto blehiem http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Frenchminem
03-27-2005, 03:47 PM
well... sure there is exeptions, and there's always people to remember them too...
but I read too, many books, and it was not so I I always heard about "groups transformed" on a plane type to another one... and this operation needed some weeks... so... It would be interesting to do this too... in the same conditions it was done...
or the possibility too to enter an Army corp... make a paper with name... age... like a CV, and then you create automaticately your game profile, while you think you're subscribing AIR corps... then you could have all the flight test, depending on each army specificity...
and like said Blackdog... yeah... briefing and debriefing rooms were nice in such games... i used to flight on Europen air war, and It was like that too, with videos, briefing with sounds, speech, objectives... DCA areas to avoid...
then... you entered the hangar, to prepare your flight!!!
good atmosphere!!!
so If any other ideas like that are given, maybe Oleg will think to such little things, important, to improve game pleasure...

NorrisMcWhirter
03-27-2005, 04:36 PM
offline? proper briefings and having 'believable characters' in your squadron who you might want to protect and survive.

At the moment, the AI is so stupid you just want to kill them yourselves after they've stolen yet another kill.

It's almost like being online.

How about correcting that other immersion killer - a cr*p 151/20. I find myself being jerked out of my little cocoon of immersion as soon as I see those hits doing no damage. Every single time.

Norris

LEXX_Luthor
03-27-2005, 04:48 PM
You need to be able to Skip the training part of the campaign, you know, after you run the campaign once or twice (kinda like skipping the Intro movie or all those boring Pilot Videos found in other sims).

Better idea is to create Training Campaign all by itself, starting you out in clear sunny calm weather at major airbase, then you progress until you fly formation in stormy weather over ocean at night from primitive grass strip. After that, then you will be ready to start a campaign.

If you change aircraft, you stop the campaign and start up the Training again, but choose the type of plane you want to learn. Also, if you are just changing planes, you really don't need to re~learn all the weather, navigation, and airfield stuff, just how to fly the new plane (you already know the other stuff cos you learned it while training in your last plane).

In other words, don't bog down Campaign development with "training" but allow the player to fire up a seperate Training Campaign if he/she wants to (after you play the sim for a year, you may not want to go through training).

Frenchminem
03-27-2005, 05:01 PM
for sure, it 'd be borrring to always do this...
but I think it musn't be a problem to ad a button with "skip training" written on it!!!
what i'd like too is the ability to change skin ingame... during campaign, for all the other planes... with the program would choose alone some random skin, downloaded before, for enemies, and allies aircraft!!!
(easier to follow an aircraft you have touched before... or to shotdown that yellow long nose who shot down your friend...)

crazyivan1970
03-27-2005, 07:55 PM
Think about cost of additional coding to reproduce all that. I spoke to Oleg about similar things on which he replied... would you like to do pre-flight maint on the Mustang for 6 hours?

Think about it from business point of view... money and resources on something that will be used by couple of ppl. Just my opinion. Not slamming yours by all means. Just saying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ImpStarDuece
03-27-2005, 08:43 PM
@ Lexx

The training campaign is a BRILLIANT idea. I have just figured out how to make the first five missions of my campaign officially 'not boring"!

Personally, I think that while it would be nice to have a complex model of engine start-up, its more like window dressing than something that is actually necessary. It's a little surperflous to means.

Still, we can but hope and keep our fingers crossed for future products down the track.

LEXX_Luthor
03-27-2005, 09:07 PM
Ya, we can make our own 3rd Party Training Campaigns, now, with the tools we have.

p1ngu666
03-27-2005, 10:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
offline? proper briefings and having 'believable characters' in your squadron who you might want to protect and survive.

At the moment, the AI is so stupid you just want to kill them yourselves after they've stolen yet another kill.

It's almost like being online.

How about correcting that other immersion killer - a cr*p 151/20. I find myself being jerked out of my little cocoon of immersion as soon as I see those hits doing no damage. Every single time.

Norris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

one day u will make a post without mg151 whine.
ONE day http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

BuzzU
03-27-2005, 10:42 PM
What I want more than anything is not to stert a mission sitting my plane on the runway. I hate that!

I want to start in the briefing room. After being briefed, I want to walk out to the plane, and taxi to the runway. After I land, I want to walk back to the briefing room for debriefing.

That's immersion for me.

Blackdog5555
03-27-2005, 10:43 PM
I think Oleg is confusing pre-flight maintenance with pre-flight check. Im sure it would be boring to wait while the aviation ordinacement put the ammo in the guns and replaced burnt barrels and the engineers crew refueled and checked plugs and brake lines, etc. but check out zenos.com for real preflight check for a P47. about a 10 step preflight checklist. Training was less then what you got for todays civil license. I think training missions like LOMAC would be doable and easy. Preflight checklist in the briefing room would be easy too. If your a FG leader you should beable to pick and replace dead pilots with bios. Getting drunk in the officers club and then getting in a wrasling match with Pappy Boyington, or chasing nurses are just me dreaming.

msalama
03-28-2005, 02:45 AM
Hey - you guys want to learn some pre-flight routines, just start _doing_ them! This is what I do before each and every flight (modify as needed according to the type of plane etc.):

Pre-start:

1) Power 10% (-> throttle "cracked")
2) Radiator open
3) Tailwheel locked
4) Mixture 100%
5) Prop pitch 100%
6) Blower stage 1

Engage starter, power back to 0% when engine fires

Warm-up:

1) Check all trimmers & flight controls for operation
2) Flaps combat
3) Mags to nr. 2
4) Cycle trough propeller control a couple of times
5) Flaps takeoff
6) Mags to nr. 1
7) Cycle trough mixture control a couple of times (10% min. to prevent engine from cutting off)
8) Flaps landing
9) Cycle trough mags a couple of times (1&2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1&2)
10) Nav lights on-off
11) Ldg lights on-off
12) Flaps takeoff

13) OPTIONAL: w/ water-cooled engines you can shut the radiator now to speed up engine warming. With radial engines I'm not sure - I've heard that U might get some hotspots because of insufficient airflow if you do that...

14) OPTIONAL: you can _try_ to do a proper mag check (engine burn-in) too if you like! I usually can't be bothered, because I've found that the plane just goes all over the place even w/ full braking when you apply some 30 in.Hg. of manifold pressure...

Takeoff:

1) Check that radiator/cyl. head temp is sufficient
2) Radiator open if U closed it
3) Check prop(s) 100% once more
4) Check mix 100% once more
5) Tailwheel locked (or as deemed necessary)
6) Go

And that's it, if I didn't forget anything. Well yeah, of course this pre-flight is very much simplified out of necessity, but still adds to the immersion/realism IMHO...

NorrisMcWhirter
03-28-2005, 03:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
offline? proper briefings and having 'believable characters' in your squadron who you might want to protect and survive.

At the moment, the AI is so stupid you just want to kill them yourselves after they've stolen yet another kill.

It's almost like being online.

How about correcting that other immersion killer - a cr*p 151/20. I find myself being jerked out of my little cocoon of immersion as soon as I see those hits doing no damage. Every single time.

Norris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

one day u will make a post without mg151 whine.
ONE day http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Maybe..but you're right - it's unlikely. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I do hope it gets old cos at least it's mirroring what I think about the problem overall.

Cheers,
Norris

NorrisMcWhirter
03-28-2005, 03:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by msalama:
Hey - you guys want to learn some pre-flight routines, just start _doing_ them! This is what I do before each and every flight (modify as needed according to the type of plane etc.):

Pre-start:

1) Power 10% (-> throttle "cracked")
2) Radiator open
3) Tailwheel locked
4) Mixture 100%
5) Prop pitch 100%
6) Blower stage 1

Engage starter, power back to 0% when engine fires

Warm-up:

1) Check all trimmers & flight controls for operation
2) Flaps combat
3) Mags to nr. 2
4) Cycle trough propeller control a couple of times
5) Flaps takeoff
6) Mags to nr. 1
7) Cycle trough mixture control a couple of times (10% min. to prevent engine from cutting off)
8) Flaps landing
9) Cycle trough mags a couple of times (1&2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1&2)
10) Nav lights on-off
11) Ldg lights on-off
12) Flaps takeoff

13) OPTIONAL: w/ water-cooled engines you can shut the radiator now to speed up engine warming. With radial engines I'm not sure - I've heard that U might get some hotspots because of insufficient airflow if you do that...

14) OPTIONAL: you can _try_ to do a proper mag check (engine burn-in) too if you like! I usually can't be bothered, because I've found that the plane just goes all over the place even w/ full braking when you apply some 30 in.Hg. of manifold pressure...

Takeoff:

1) Check that radiator/cyl. head temp is sufficient
2) Radiator open if U closed it
3) Check prop(s) 100% once more
4) Check mix 100% once more
5) Tailwheel locked (or as deemed necessary)
6) Go

And that's it, if I didn't forget anything. Well yeah, of course this pre-flight is very much simplified out of necessity, but still adds to the immersion/realism IMHO... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Crikey. I do hope you are flight leader because everyone else would have taken off and completed their mission prior to you asking for takeoff clearance (which you missed out, incidentally).

I don't think it's that important to be forced to go through a pre-flight checklist every time but I can see it would be of some merit to pedantic players. No reason not to have something like this as optional development time permitting.

Ta,
Norris

msalama
03-28-2005, 05:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...completed their mission prior to you asking for takeoff clearance <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you tried it once - instead of talking c**p like that - you'd know that this comment of yours is c**p http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>(which you missed out, incidentally). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I didn't. There's no such command in FB v.1.22 (which I fly mostly, because it runs fastest in this c**ppy computer of mine).

NorrisMcWhirter
03-28-2005, 07:43 AM
'twas a joke http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

1.22 doesn't have requests for takeoff or landing?
It's been awhile....so I'm not surprised.

Cheers,
Norris

SeaNorris
03-28-2005, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
'twas a joke http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

1.22 doesn't have requests for takeoff or landing?
It's been awhile....so I'm not surprised.

Cheers,
Norris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That only came in PF. For carriers mainly.

Blackdog5555
03-28-2005, 10:53 AM
There is clearly two schools of thought here. You have your ADHD crowd who cant wait to get up in the air in a DF room to shoot their guns like a giant paintball match. "Look Ma I shot down three baddies and was only killed twice. wee." Then there are the "pendants" as Norris calls em. Those "offliners" who want to know about the technology, training and tactics. Look and learn about the history and personel of WWII aviation. The immersion guys. I'll agree with Norris that the AI is almost as bad (mindless)as your teammates in a DF room. at least you can get a wingman offline. Oleg is a model builder has made almost perfect models in PF. But forgot to allocate time to build the Maps, history and personel to play with them. IMO.

msalama
03-29-2005, 12:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>'twas a joke http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1.22 doesn't have requests for takeoff or landing? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It has a request for landing only, none for takeoff.

-----------------------------------------------

OT: But what _does_ bug me sometimes is that I was told that PF will run as good as FB/AEP (as in "if yer 'puter runs FB/AEP it'll run PF as well"), but that seems to be untrue - there's waaaay more stutters and s**t in PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif