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View Full Version : Oleg! Hast thou forgotten? Modibility!



BrotherJayne
03-01-2007, 07:07 PM
"1. We plan to increase the modes of multiplay.
2. We plan to make it very usueful for the championships and online wars (measn features of online gameplay and servers)
3. We plan Bots in dogfight. It was in plan for Il-2 but never released due to some problems in online traffic overloading in the past. There was other prioritets in the past

We also plan to give third party more free hands to build themselves without our control objects, small online maps, planes and cockpits....

DON'WORRY!
This means that we will have two rooms for multiplay:

1. Standard our staff room where custom made third party planes can't fly...
2. the room of online gameplay for our standard set and the planes of third party...

If user community and we ourselves will find that som guy of third party did the right job, then we will move such plane in a standard set as well.

In this case we will be more free to make new things and feature than to support third party models and community will decide which plane to play or not from third party...

I also expect to replace by such things the industry around the MS add-ons

It is in all we plan and it isn't all that will be released righ with the release of the sim.
Say tools we will release after ther release of the sim itself... and first tools will be for objects and maps, then later for planes... if possible

Note for the third party developers about these features of BoB:
we don't give full access to source code. We give access just for some basic tunings of FM and animations which will be possible to use only in single play custom made special room missions and only in special online room for such planes.
If it will be not possible to make such a scheme then we will cancel the work over custom planes... and will keep just objects and maps.
And will repeat we don't give ability to create the big maps, which we will keep for ourselves that to make new sims of new theaters."

That was quite some time ago. Has this idea been dropped, or merely delayed?

BrotherJayne
03-01-2007, 07:07 PM
"1. We plan to increase the modes of multiplay.
2. We plan to make it very usueful for the championships and online wars (measn features of online gameplay and servers)
3. We plan Bots in dogfight. It was in plan for Il-2 but never released due to some problems in online traffic overloading in the past. There was other prioritets in the past

We also plan to give third party more free hands to build themselves without our control objects, small online maps, planes and cockpits....

DON'WORRY!
This means that we will have two rooms for multiplay:

1. Standard our staff room where custom made third party planes can't fly...
2. the room of online gameplay for our standard set and the planes of third party...

If user community and we ourselves will find that som guy of third party did the right job, then we will move such plane in a standard set as well.

In this case we will be more free to make new things and feature than to support third party models and community will decide which plane to play or not from third party...

I also expect to replace by such things the industry around the MS add-ons

It is in all we plan and it isn't all that will be released righ with the release of the sim.
Say tools we will release after ther release of the sim itself... and first tools will be for objects and maps, then later for planes... if possible

Note for the third party developers about these features of BoB:
we don't give full access to source code. We give access just for some basic tunings of FM and animations which will be possible to use only in single play custom made special room missions and only in special online room for such planes.
If it will be not possible to make such a scheme then we will cancel the work over custom planes... and will keep just objects and maps.
And will repeat we don't give ability to create the big maps, which we will keep for ourselves that to make new sims of new theaters."

That was quite some time ago. Has this idea been dropped, or merely delayed?

FritzGryphon
03-01-2007, 07:10 PM
BoB isn't out yet. We'll have to wait and see.

VW-IceFire
03-01-2007, 09:34 PM
Seeing as Storm of War: Battle of Britain hasn't been released...and that Oleg has mentioned these features as being a part of the Storm of War series it only makes sense that we'll have to wait and see. Nothing appears to have been dropped at this point...its a great little idea really.

AKA_TAGERT
03-01-2007, 09:35 PM
I am all for mods as long as no 3rd party planes can be added as a mod or current planes tweaked as a mod! That is the kiss of death for a flight sim!

LEXX_Luthor
03-01-2007, 10:43 PM
TAGERT:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I am all for mods as long as no 3rd party planes can be added as a mod or current planes tweaked as a mod! That is the kiss of death for a flight sim! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not according to your previous statements.

You assured your fellow Online players here that there was little to no "cheating" in the Microsoft sims, but only mere accusations of cheating that killed the Microsoft sims. Thus, Online players accusing each other killed the sim, and not 3rd Party aircraft modding. Even if there was cheating in the old Microsoft sims, as others here would contradict you (I have no clue), it would still be the Online players cheating, and not the modding.

BrotherJayne
03-01-2007, 10:53 PM
Simply disallow the use of unverified files online...

LEXX_Luthor
03-01-2007, 10:54 PM
Bro:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That was quite some time ago. Has this idea been dropped, or merely delayed? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Still good to go! We don't get many updates -- wait for the BoB And Beyond forum to open (bad word) ...to start!


Oleg:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">2. We plan to make it very usueful for the championships and online wars (measn features of online gameplay and servers) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is always good, as Oleg may have learned that his sim's success depends on Offline dynamic campaigns and Online dynamic campaigns (Online War).

I thought the "beyond" part of BoB And Beyond as the theaters after 1940 Channel, but it could mean...Beyond dogfight server gameplay design focus.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-02-2007, 12:11 AM
Brother:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Simply disallow the use of unverified files online... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's where TAGERT's theory comes in. Even if cheating is not allowed, and never happens, there will be accusations of cheating, and the accusations are what destroys a sim, whether cheating happens or not.

Another way to look at TAGERT's theory is ... If Offline play and the "open mod servers" (case 2 of Oleg's DON'WORRY listing) allow independent 3rd Party modding, then the Online players in the "closed mod servers" (case 1 of Oleg's DON'WORRY listing), in total panic that the Offline mods and Case 2 server mods will find their way past Oleg's Case 1 server protections, will accuse each other of cheating until they leave the Case 1 servers, causing the death of the entire sim for all Offline and all Online players. Under this theory, the solution is to BAN 3rd Party modding for all types of gameplay, which assures the Case 1 servers are protected from accusations of cheating, thus saving the life of the entire sim for all Offline and all Online players. Oleg does not now allow open modding for Offline play now, thus there is no Panic and Fear of Offline mods finding their way online today, so we see no accusations of cheating with modded flight models in today's FB/PF Online servers. Thus, the sim has survived. Granted, accusations of other types of cheating, variously called Cheats, Hacks, Exploits, or Bat Turns, are seen quite often.

One could write a book on this stuff.

WWSensei
03-02-2007, 05:55 AM
Luthor has it right. Current game is locked down and still suffers from lots of accusations of cheating. Any perceived "open door" will be used as an excuse or scapegoat for pilots unable to compete.

A large number of virtual pilots are simply unable to accept that their choice of tactics and their actions are far more to blame than aircraft, damage model or flight model for thier loss. If the odds are 99.9999% to be the vpilot's fault and .0001% chance there was a hack you will NEVER convince the vpilot it was anything other than a hack. This was true back in the TSN days of the original Red Baron, RB3D, Falcon 4.0, the CFS series and IL2.

AKA_TAGERT
03-02-2007, 09:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Not according to your previous statements. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not true

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
You assured your fellow Online players here that there was little to no "cheating" in the Microsoft sims, but only mere accusations of cheating that killed the Microsoft CFSx. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never said NO cheating in MS CFSx sims!

I said I never saw anyone cheating while plaing MS CFSx!

Two very different things!

As for the hysteria of cheating.. It only takes a one to affect many.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Thus, Online players accusing each other killed the sim, and not 3rd Party aircraft modding. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But based on the 'truth' that cheating exists!

Like all mythical stories..

They get blown out of proportion!

But..

They typically stem from some basic 'truth'

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Even if there was cheating in the old Microsoft sims, as others here would contradict you (I have no clue), it would still be the Online players cheating, and not the modding. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The ability of modifing/tweaking the FM in CFS was not a cheat in and of itself.

Using it online and not telling anyone is!

The not knowing if your opponent is honest enough to be using the same FM as you is what kills flight sims (and other games).

Call it what you will..

But giving the user the ability to modify/tweak the performance of the planes is a bad idea IMHO.

AVGWarhawk
03-02-2007, 10:09 AM
You know Tagert and I do not agree on much but when we do, it is a moment in history that needs to be recorded. Giving the ability to the community to modify/change/tweek performance does spell the demise of the game. It did me in on COD and the CFS series. I believe some the mainstay with IL2 is the inability for files to be manipulated for personal gratification.

That's my 3 cents.....times are tough

joeap
03-02-2007, 12:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AVGWarhawk:
You know Tagert and I do not agree on much but when we do, it is a moment in history that needs to be recorded. Giving the ability to the community to modify/change/tweek performance does spell the demise of the game. It did me in on COD and the CFS series. I believe some the mainstay with IL2 is the inability for files to be manipulated for personal gratification.

That's my 3 cents.....times are tough </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-02-2007, 08:33 PM
AVG:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Giving the ability to the community to modify/change/tweek performance does spell the demise of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, of course you are ignoring Oleg's idea, which is giving the ability to the community to add completely new aircraft, not just to modify/change/tweek existing aircraft performance.

Lets pretend that modding does "kill" the game, it would only "kill" a tiny "online" gameplay segment. Now, if the sim were to go Pay-To-Play, where the tiny Online gameplay segment does not depend on Offline players for financing, then its a different story. For one thing, that would (hopefully) imply continuous support from the developer/publisher to prevent cheating.

Free or Pay, modding won't "kill" even the Online game, as Oleg will not abandon his sim like Microsoft abandoned its combat flight sims.

One may see the deception in parts (not all, probably not most) of this FB/PF Online non-community when they claim that modding will "kill the game" but never say "kill the online game." This deception, like many we have seen in the past (Trim Wars for example), begins to indicate that these types of online computer gamers can never become a reliable customer base within such a small market, unless they pay a Monthly Fee.

non-communities accuse each other of cheating.

Targ
03-02-2007, 08:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSensei:
Luthor has it right. Current game is locked down and still suffers from lots of accusations of cheating. Any perceived "open door" will be used as an excuse or scapegoat for pilots unable to compete.

A large number of virtual pilots are simply unable to accept that their choice of tactics and their actions are far more to blame than aircraft, damage model or flight model for thier loss. If the odds are 99.9999% to be the vpilot's fault and .0001% chance there was a hack you will NEVER convince the vpilot it was anything other than a hack. This was true back in the TSN days of the original Red Baron, RB3D, Falcon 4.0, the CFS series and IL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Sensei said.

LEXX_Luthor
03-02-2007, 08:47 PM
Ya, and thanks Sensai!

The one (1) difference between Microsoft's CFSn sims and Oleg's sims, is that Oleg will not abandon support and anti-cheat efforts for his Online sims.

AVGWarhawk
03-03-2007, 08:57 AM
In my view keeping the code under lock and key has allowed IL2 continued support from the community and from Oleg. It is beyond me why one would want to create a cheat so to beat everyone. If it is just one's desire to be superior to all no matter what it takes then this individual needs to take a deep look that themselves, hopefully realizing accomplishment done by one's hands and brain is far more gratifying then cheating to win. There will always be someone looking for the edge at any cost to win. Thankfully, these individuals have had their hands tied and I suspect some get awfully frustrated as a result.

AKA_TAGERT
03-03-2007, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AVGWarhawk:
In my view keeping the code under lock and key has allowed IL2 continued support from the community and from Oleg. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

Thus making it not only one of the most popular flight sims ever but one of the longest living flight sims ever.

AVGWarhawk
03-03-2007, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AVGWarhawk:
In my view keeping the code under lock and key has allowed IL2 continued support from the community and from Oleg. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

Thus making it not only one of the most popular flight sims ever but one of the longest living flight sims ever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


And it will continue as long as the code is kept under lock and key. Again, gents, many a game has been ruined for me because of hack and cheats. I for one have more respect for those that succeed under their own wits or brawn than those that cut corners. The following games lost me after modibility nonsense was allowed:

CFS 1,2
COD
MOH

Sure punk buster is around but not infallible. No tickey no washy when it comes to code.

FritzGryphon
03-03-2007, 05:03 PM
Even if there's not a single hack, being able to author your own versions would be death.

The instant it's opened you's see a dozen different versions in hyperlobby, everything from versions with 'fixed' FMs, to Starwars mods, maybe even DBZ.

Every nutter who thinks his favorite plane is porked will have their own mod, and refuse to play anything but it. Now, this is fine for other games like Starcraft, because they have tens of thousands of players. The 1000 people in HL will dwindle to 50 once BoB comes out, and these 50 will bicker about what version is right.

The game will be reduced to a novelty that you tinker around with offline, with no practical gaming purpose.

The only people who'd actually use it are small hardcore gaming clubs that absolutely must have a particular plane or map in IL-2, for some deep rooted psychological reason. Like civil war reenacters, that get less exercise and sun.

And of course, serious plane and map makers will see no future in IL-2, and work on SoW instead. Anything that is actually produced for IL-2 mods will be useless.

SoW is IL-2 2.0. You lose nothing but the shackles of engine limitations.

AKA_TAGERT
03-03-2007, 05:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Even if there's not a single hack, being able to author your own versions would be death.

The instant it's opened you's see a dozen different versions in hyperlobby, everything from versions with 'fixed' FMs, to Starwars mods, maybe even DBZ.

Every nutter who thinks his favorite plane is porked will have their own mod, and refuse to play anything but it. Now, this is fine for other games like Starcraft, because they have tens of thousands of players. The 1000 people in HL will dwindle to 50 once BoB comes out, and these 50 will bicker about what version is right.

The game will be reduced to a novelty that you tinker around with offline, with no practical gaming purpose.

The only people who'd actually use it are small hardcore gaming clubs that absolutely must have a particular plane or map in IL-2, for some deep rooted psychological reason. Like civil war reenacters, that get less exercise and sun.

And of course, serious plane and map makers will see no future in IL-2, and work on SoW instead. Anything that is actually produced for IL-2 mods will be useless.

SoW is IL-2 2.0. You lose nothing but the shackles of engine limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%!

Like I told Lex last time we spoke of this.. I don't even like the idea of OFFLINE addons.. But if Oleg feels the need to provide user addons.. like CFS than limit it to only OFFLINE play. the only user addons that should be allowed ONLINE are the ones that get submitted to Oleg and given his stamp of approval!

Long story short, this (flight sims) is NOT a Democracy! There CAN BE ONLY ONE!

LEXX_Luthor
03-03-2007, 07:04 PM
Fritz:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And of course, serious plane and map makers will see no future in IL-2, and work on SoW instead. Anything that is actually produced for IL-2 mods will be useless.

SoW is IL-2 2.0. You lose nothing but the shackles of engine limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct. That's why Oleg is opening BoB And Beyond to more modding, as the FB/PF engine was never designed to enable easy modding by outsiders.


http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif

AKA_TAGERT
03-03-2007, 08:33 PM
If true.. the bad news is BoB will flop sooner than it would have

If true.. the good news is IL2 will be the sim of choice for years to come

LEXX_Luthor
03-03-2007, 09:39 PM
TAGERT:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If true.. the bad news is BoB will flop sooner than it would have

If true.. the good news is IL2 will be the sim of choice for years to come </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe, if you are part of the current crop of Online non-community shooter gamers (and, non-Payers). Oleg has learned they are not a reliable business base -- see ElAuren's BoB Pay-To-Play thread. The "irony" is that they have always accused all Offline players and many of their fellow Online players of "wanting to cheat" just for asking Oleg for modding ability (often not even aircraft modding ability). Now, they may even accuse Oleg Maddox of wanting to cheat. Irony.

If Oleg is smart, he'll charge these snotty behaving gamers out of 12$ a month through an Online play Monthly Fee. That's what I'd do if I was Oleg, right now, if it was my sim. If you wish to discuss this here on the boards, send me 12$ and I can talk with you for one month in private messaging. Same for everybody else here who has accused members of the combat flight sim community of "wanting to cheat."

The decent Online players, including the (possibly) majority who have never poasted here, may still chat with me "free" on the forums. They do make a more reliable business base.

NO RE-REGISTERING UNDER NEW USER NAME TO CHAT WITH LEXX.

FritzGryphon
03-03-2007, 09:46 PM
I don't worry that much about it, though.

MG is not stupid. I don't think they'll make full featured SDK that people can make their own games with.

Probably just extremely limited modding for testing purposes only. Surely they will not let anything usurp 'pure' SoW version after the success they've had with IL-2. Oleg didn't even say you could make planes for sure, just maybe.

If it gets people interested in making more objects for the game, that's great. Everyone is planes, planes, planes, but really, we need more than two types of house.

Look on the bright side. It will be a fun game, and whatever changes there are will be for the better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-03-2007, 09:53 PM
Fritz:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">MG is not stupid. I don't think they'll make full featured SDK that people can make their own games with. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct. No new games. Just a more open, moddable sim.

The 'pure' BoB And Beyond version you refer to was discussed by Oleg at the beginning of this thread -- you missed it. Only Oleg Approved mods may be accepted into the official sim that can be used by Case 1 servers.

Note. pay attention please. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FritzGryphon
03-03-2007, 09:56 PM
I know, I was referring to that.

But lots of people seem to fear the hacks and mods anyway. Glass half empty. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-03-2007, 09:58 PM
I assume the Case 1 servers will be the official method of Sport Flight Model Competition (Online racing and competitive sport dogfight) in BoB And Beyond. This is Oleg's core personal hobby. No "cheating" will be allowed.

AKA_TAGERT
03-03-2007, 10:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
TAGERT:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If true.. the bad news is BoB will flop sooner than it would have

If true.. the good news is IL2 will be the sim of choice for years to come </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe, if you are part of the current crop of Online non-community shooter gamers (and, non-Payers). Oleg has learned they are not a reliable business base -- see ElAuren's BoB Pay-To-Play thread. The "irony" is that they have always accused all Offline players and many of their fellow Online players of "wanting to cheat" just for asking Oleg for modding ability (often not even aircraft modding ability). Now, they may even accuse Oleg Maddox of wanting to cheat. Irony.

If Oleg is smart, he'll charge these snotty behaving gamers out of 12$ a month through an Online play Monthly Fee. That's what I'd do if I was Oleg, right now, if it was my sim. If you wish to discuss this here on the boards, send me 12$ and I can talk with you for one month in private messaging. Same for everybody else here who has accused members of the combat flight sim community of "wanting to cheat."

The decent Online players, including the (possibly) majority who have never poasted here, may still chat with me "free" on the forums. They do make a more reliable business base.

NO RE-REGISTERING UNDER NEW USER NAME TO CHAT WITH LEXX. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Step away from the PC.. Put the crack pipe down and step away from the PC! Lay flat on the floor and put your hands behind your head!

LEXX_Luthor
03-03-2007, 10:09 PM
Fritz:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But lots of people seem to fear the totaly open game anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No "lots" of people, but [generally] a very tiny, and fixed, number of players from Microsoft CFSn Online sims. Hopefully, Oleg is looking to expand his business beyond that.


---


TAGERT, you mean...
Put the mouse down, and step slowly away from the PC.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ElAurens
03-03-2007, 11:20 PM
Lexx-Luther,

Self appointed mouth of the offline modding tinkerers, and world champion of broad brush stroke generalizations.

Cheating is not my fear. The death of the sim due to having dozens of different user made versions and/or FMs is my fear. Splintering the already small number of players is my fear. Losing the best computer "gaming" experience I've ever had is my fear.

If Oleg can find a way to pull this "modability" thing off and not ruin the sim then great. But looking at the history of computer gaming of all kinds, the odds are not good for this outcome.

AKA_TAGERT
03-03-2007, 11:22 PM
Agreed 100%

LEXX_Luthor
03-03-2007, 11:51 PM
ElAurens:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The death of the sim due to having dozens of different user made versions and/or FMs is my fear. Splintering the already small number of players is my fear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct. The "already small" number of Online players is what Oleg may be thinking of expanding beyond.


ElAurens:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If Oleg can find a way to pull this "modability" thing off and not ruin the sim then great. But looking at the history of computer gaming of all kinds, the odds are not good for this outcome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed about pulling it off, and he can as Online players have always [..finish poast..] enjoyed Oleg's willingness to prevent cheating. But as we already discussed, he can't "ruin" the sim, as Online gameplay is irrelevant for combat flight sim business success unless under the Pay-To-Play business model. And thanks, you remind me to bump up your BoB Pay-To-Play Poll thread, where developers can see who is and who is not a reliable customer base.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif


*POLL* What if BoB goes Pay to Play? *POLL* ~&gt; http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/6201096104

LEXX_Luthor
03-03-2007, 11:59 PM
And yes<span class="ev_code_yellow">!</span> Cheating was your [ElAurens] prime fear some weeks ago when you accused me, and by extension accused Gibbage and Aggy22 (Pe-2 3D modeler), of "wanting to cheat" online during a BoB modding thread, in the thread that we wondered if you were accusing Oleg of wanting to cheat online because he may offer modding ability in his future sims.


ElAurens:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Lexx-Luther,

Self appointed mouth of the offline modding tinkerers, and world champion of broad brush stroke generalizations.

Cheating is not my fear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LEXX_Luthor
03-04-2007, 12:26 AM
...who is and who is not a reliable customer base...

If I come across a bit harsh, you have to learn to not insult and accuse the very people who are supporting your personal Hobby. As one honest Online player poasted at simhq...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If not for the Offline base, we'd all be paying 12$ a month to fly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now, that was a good two (2) years ago, and with inflation of credit and money supply among all currencies worldwide in a competitive race to the bottom, that would be about 15$ Monthly Fee today.

WWMaxGunz
03-04-2007, 01:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
And yes<span class="ev_code_yellow">!</span> Cheating was your [ElAurens] prime fear some weeks ago when you accused me, and by extension accused Gibbage and Aggy22 (Pe-2 3D modeler), of "wanting to cheat" online during a BoB modding thread, in the thread that we wondered if you were accusing Oleg of wanting to cheat online because he may offer modding ability in his future sims. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

His *prime (IL2 I assume) fear*? Over that comment?
I think you stretch it like a used bungee jump cord!
And also exaggerate about ElAurens.

leitmotiv
03-04-2007, 02:23 AM
If you take the example of FS9/FSX, the models you buy for those sims can be superb, and some of the models done as freeware are also superb. Junk weeds itself out. Less satisfying are the Third Wire sims' mods. Many are ghastly---aircraft with the cockpits of other aircraft, and add to that the tame FM which results from Third Wire code. I think IL-2 will remain the online preferred game for a long time just for uniformity's sake.

BrotherJayne
03-04-2007, 04:00 AM
I'm pretty sure what killed those other games wasn't modibility, but IL-2 itself. Why play crappy games when you can play IL-2?
I myself quit playing ms etc because of IL-2, not cuz it was hard to find games to play.

Not to mention, alot of games have their lifetimes explanded considerabily by modding (Perfect example: Close Combat, Faces of War)

XyZspineZyX
03-04-2007, 06:45 AM
I gotta ask:

What's with the 'hast thou' routine? This ain't exactly a theatre troupe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I mean Lexx wears tights now and again, but it's a comfort thing

AKA_TAGERT
03-04-2007, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
I gotta ask:

What's with the 'hast thou' routine? This ain't exactly a theatre troupe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I mean Lexx wears tights now and again, but it's a comfort thing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFL

LEXX_Luthor
03-04-2007, 11:35 AM
Brother:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm pretty sure what killed those other games wasn't modibility, but IL-2 itself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct. I was (choke) wrong, ElAurens had accused me, and by extension, Gibbage, Aggy22, and Oleg of "wanting to kill" BoB And Beyond through modding, not of "wanting to cheat," for reasons of claimed community split. That claim assumes no new customers. As rnzoli has poasted, the FB/PF Online gameplay has stagnated, and if so, we need new customers that can fill out the larger number of gameplay options. Modding in general, even without aircraft modding, is one of many things that could help to achieve that goal.


BB:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I mean Lexx wears tights now and again, but it's a comfort thing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct.

ElAurens
03-04-2007, 11:48 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

BillyTheKid_22
03-04-2007, 12:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
I gotta ask:

What's with the 'hast thou' routine? This ain't exactly a theatre troupe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I mean Lexx wears tights now and again, but it's a comfort thing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif

XyZspineZyX
03-04-2007, 12:38 PM
Lexx gets points for having a sense of humor http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
03-04-2007, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey man, isn't your flight supposed to be patrolling rangoon? I haven't heard a combat report from 3rd Squadron in a month http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ElAurens
03-04-2007, 03:22 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Sorry. I just sort of ground to a halt. Between the totally predictable enemy AI and the kill stealing AI wingmen, I let my frustrations get the better of me.

I'll try to pop off a few more missions after dinner.

BrotherJayne
03-04-2007, 03:51 PM
lol, that's funny
I'm running a coop camp over rangoon, and we hate the kill stealing ai too!
That AI just pulls off insane acceleration in those p-40s just to steal my bleeding kills!

LEXX_Luthor
03-04-2007, 06:36 PM
Fritz, I thought you were talking of BoB And Beyond, but you seem to be talking about "opening" FB/PF -- NOT going to happen.

FritzGryphon:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The instant it's opened you's see a dozen different versions in hyperlobby, everything from versions with 'fixed' FMs, to Starwars mods, maybe even DBZ. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This makes sense assuming you are talking about FB/PF, especially the "versions" part.

Fritz:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Every nutter who thinks his favorite plane is porked will have their own mod, and refuse to play anything but it. Now, this is fine for other games like Starcraft, because they have tens of thousands of players. The 1000 people in HL will dwindle to 50 once BoB comes out, and these 50 will bicker about what version is right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This makes sense interpreted as a discussion of opening FB/PF. Even so, Yes and No. A number of players are still happily playing EAW Online, RB3 Online, and other ancient sims, all with fully open modded aircraft, and possibly, less than 50 players each. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif They may have, however, successfully established tiny communities where "cheating" is not an issue among old timer friends.

Fritz:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The only people who'd actually use it are small hardcore gaming clubs that absolutely must have a particular plane or map in IL-2, for some deep rooted psychological reason. Like civil war reenacters, that get less exercise and sun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is what made me see you are fearing the "opening" of FB/PF. It made NO sense in terms of BoB And Beyond.


Fritz:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And of course, serious plane and map makers will see no future in IL-2, and work on SoW instead. Anything that is actually produced for IL-2 mods will be useless.

SoW is IL-2 2.0. You lose nothing but the shackles of engine limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Covered earlier, and Agreed!

XyZspineZyX
03-04-2007, 07:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
lol, that's funny
I'm running a coop camp over rangoon, and we hate the kill stealing ai too!
That AI just pulls off insane acceleration in those p-40s just to steal my bleeding kills! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif the secret is to hit the target so hard you only have to do it once, then your mates can't get your sloppy seconds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif