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Daiichidoku
06-09-2006, 06:31 PM
i wish to make a 42 planeset DF map

my only real spit reference book (alfred prices "spitfire story") is in storage, so i need some help, please

1)seafire IIIs...are they suitable for a 42 planeset? aside from the extra eq of tailhook, what is the diff between a seafire III and the spit V, particularly in terms of flight performance and characteristics, if any signifigant difference at all? i know it has different merlin, too, but not what lies therin, in terms of power, hi or low alt focus, etc

2)which models of spit that we have in game would fall within a 42 planeset..that is, which ones saw major production/deployment during 42?


many tx

Xiolablu3
06-09-2006, 06:56 PM
I think Seafire III's are too late for 1942.

I think the Spitfire Vb or VC2 would be most representative (of planes in the game) of the Royal Navys Spitfires and Seafires in 1942.

Seafires and Spitfire Vc2 have 120rpg cannon ammo (c wing). The Spitfire Vb has only 60rpg.(b wing)


http://www.spitfireperformance.com/lr765.html

If you look at this report, its dated Sept '43. The Royal Navy wanted SPitfires from 1940, but they didnt get them until much later than the Airforce and were usually a model behind. The primary reason for this was that defence of the homeland ewas the first priority for the production of Spitfires. The Navys wants and needs came 2nd to this.

While the Air Firce was reequiping with Spitfire Mk8's and 9's in 1943, the Navy had to make do with MkV varients.

If you tell us what they will be fighting, we can tell you the best types to put in for the year and to keep the map balanced. Its good to keep things as historical as possible, but its no fun when eveyone joins one side becasue it has much better planes, Good matchups are :-

Spitfire Vb, SPitfire Vc(2) vs Bf109F4/Bf109E7B(fighter bomber)

Spifire Vc(4), Spitfire Vc(2), Seafire III, Spitfire Vb LF 1942 vs FW190A4,Me109G2.

Daiichidoku
06-09-2006, 08:45 PM
thanks Xiolablu,

but its an arcade DF server, im putting as many 42 (and some 41) types in as possible, not a historical matchup exclusively

while the Vb is listed as a 41, and the LF Vb as a 42, the Vb CW is a 43, and no year listed for the LF Vb CW, so i need to know what year the LF Vb CW is; i suspect that is is 43 as well, along with the Vb CW, but i just wanna know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

incidentally...your second matchup needs adjusting...as Oleg has stated, the 190 A5 should be used to represent the 1.42Ata "jaeger" western front 190A4 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

JG53Frankyboy
06-10-2006, 08:28 AM
dont worry , the Seafire III are no stelar performers ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

the flight performance of F.III/L.III is worser than that of the Vb/LF.Vb.
and so far i remember the F.Vc is still better than a F.III .

AFAIK the LF.V with their special low level rated engines came 1943 to combat, if with clipped or normal wings.
a F.Vb with CW i would rate 1942.

the ingame datas are not the best features of the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
ever heard about a P-51B in combat 1942 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
and the Bf110G is actualy a 1943 plane , not 1942.
just examples.


and if arcade, dont forget to put the A6M3 in http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Xiolablu3
06-10-2006, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
thanks Xiolablu,


incidentally...your second matchup needs adjusting...as Oleg has stated, the 190 A5 should be used to represent the 1.42Ata "jaeger" western front 190A4 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

If you want the FW190A5 to rule the server, like it did in the channel 41/42, yes! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Fw190A4 does a very good job of it anyway)

tigertalon
06-10-2006, 08:59 AM
Keep in mind however, seafires have a pair of 60lb monster-rockets as loadout option. Something to consider IMO if vulching with rockets will be allowed.

tigertalon
06-10-2006, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
thanks Xiolablu,


incidentally...your second matchup needs adjusting...as Oleg has stated, the 190 A5 should be used to represent the 1.42Ata "jaeger" western front 190A4 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

If you want the FW190A5 to rule the server, like it did in the channel 41/42, yes! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Fw190A4 does a very good job of it anyway) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, however, we still have only overrated spitVb and only derated FwA4... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

p1ngu666
06-10-2006, 10:20 AM
overrated vb? LOL
think we have 16lb climb, but 9lb speed or something..

quick look at il2compair (old version, dunno where ive put new)

spit vb, a scorching 460kph at sea level.

a4, 540kph
a5, 570kph

100kph~advantage to the a5...

the seafire has margin of speed over vb of 7kph or so, but loses 1meter a sec in climb.

to put vb in persepective, the close in performance (just speed)
yak7
p40 early types
ki61 is 20kph faster
20kph faster than ki43..
iar80/81 faster
il2 single seat types, only 25kph slower
same speed as f4f
110g2 is some45kph faster
a6m3 is a smidge faster http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
a20 is only 10kph slower
109e4, is 10~kph faster

yeah, that spitfire vb sure is fast and scary http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

shame we have no typhoon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif . u can use bea and mossie in 42 maps aswell mate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

tigertalon
06-10-2006, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
overrated vb? LOL
think we have 16lb climb, but 9lb speed or something..


Isn't spitVb that we have actually a spitVb_late with 12lb instead of 9lb (for use in 1942 channel front)?

Xiolablu3
06-10-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
overrated vb? LOL
think we have 16lb climb, but 9lb speed or something..


Isn't spitVb that we have actually a spitVb_late with 12lb instead of 9lb (for use in 1942 channel front)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I think that the actual Vb late is the VbLF1942 CW.

The normal Vb is slooooow

The late VbLf 1942 CW is some 10-20kph slower than a Fw190A4.

Try fighting a good FW190A4 pilot in a SPitfire Vb standard and youwill see what I mean. Unless the FW190 makes a mistake, you cannot touch him. (recalls memories of dying lots in a Spitfire Vb on Channel '42 map on Ukdedicated and owning lots in a FW190A4 on that same map http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

Other day I had 1000m height advatange on a FW190A4 and I was in a SPitfire Vb. Still could not catch him. The FW190 pilot made it worse by taunting 'putt putt putt' in the chat bar as he pulled away http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
06-10-2006, 11:07 AM
the LF has a cropped supercharger.
yeah its competative at low level, but above 10,000ft is rather bad http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

theres one plane that really NEEDS a cropped supercharger is the mossie. with merlin 25's, 366mph on ops was common, on the deck...

the VBLF is kinda a late vb, they where called claped, clipped and cropped, or something.

but they are fundimental really different from a normal vb

p1ngu666
06-10-2006, 11:33 AM
http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//spitvspit.jpg

i think the graph looks streched cos i have a widescreen tft...

but u can see how there optimised for different altitutudes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Xiolablu3
06-10-2006, 01:31 PM
Yes, I conclude from your graph that the Spitfire Vb standard is officially ****. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Not too bad compared to 109E or Yak1's for 1941 but compared to a FW190 or 109F4. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

LW has the upper hand through 1941-42, until 1943 with the La5 and the Spitfire mkIX.

Daiichidoku
06-10-2006, 04:21 PM
yes, Xiolablu, i DO want the 190s to run roughshod over pathetic lady-boy spits, as they did IRL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

yes, Frankyboy, I WILL put in the A6M3, a personal fav, that is sadly better performing IG than the RL best '44 A6M5a

ive had to make some compromises that IMO are fair for various reasons

so far the planeset is as follows:

~Beaufighter mk21~greater power than earlier beaus, but lack of rear gunner makes up for it
~F4F-4
~Hurri mk IIc
~I-153M62~only in for a certain server admin who requires the 153P for personal enjoyment..however in light of other types in this planeset, i must downgrade it to the M62
~I-16 type24
~LaGG 3 35 series
~Lagg 3 IT~was produced in 42, this 43 version only has different 37mm
~La-5
~Mig 3 2xShVAK~definitive ud version has hopeless armament
~Mig 3 AM-38~for a low-level Mig alternative
~Mossie
~P-38J~as a P38F stand-in
~P-39N1
~P-40M
~Spit Vb
~Spit LF Vb
~Spit Vc(4)~to help assauge the inevitable spit cry babies by giving them serious firepower (even if the volkes filter will cost them hehe)
~Yak 1B
~Yak9
~A6M2-21
~A6M3
~Bf 109F4 OR G2~not sure on this one..V2 err G2 is either seriously overmodelled or every other type in FB is seriously undermodelled...personally, id prefer to see to F4
~Fw190A5 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
~G4M1-11~good speed for 41/42, and that 20mm stinger! yeouch!
~IAR 81C
~Ju88A4~fulfills both level and dive bombing functions
~Ki43C
~Ki61Ko
~MC 200 series 3~hard to beat this type's "cool factor"
~MC 202 series VII

the Spit Vb CW is 43...it wont be in the planeset
can anyone tell me defiinitively what year or time period the Spit LF Vb CW was?
if its 42, then i will include it in planeset..if not, tought titty, Spit drivers

faustnik
06-10-2006, 05:00 PM
Daiichidoku,

I would consider the Spit VB LF clipped as a '42 plane. AFIK, the cropped impeller and the clipped wings happened around the same time.

JG53Frankyboy
06-10-2006, 05:07 PM
actually i think the most Spitfire Pilots in game will be happy if they havent to fyl a CW http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

faustnik
06-10-2006, 05:19 PM
I was just trying that little Spit Vb LF (CW) hotrod and this happened, which looked cool.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_files/Hispanos.ntrk

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Xiolablu3
06-10-2006, 06:27 PM
La5 in 1942?. I have not seen that before.

With this planeset most players will fly La5 and FW190A5 I think.

P38J will be very powerful against this planeset too.

faustnik
06-10-2006, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
La5 in 1942?. I have not seen that before.


The La5s fought at Stalingrad from August 1942.

Xiolablu3
06-10-2006, 06:48 PM
Of course they did, one of my favourite matchups is 109G2 vs La5 (non FN) God I am stupid http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Spitfire LF Vb is 1942. I htink it even has 1942 in its name in the game. But I dont htink many people will be flying it.

Spitfire Mk9 Merlin 61 flew in 1942 too, but we dont have the early version in the game. In the light of you using the P38J because there is no P38F, why not use the Spitfire Mk9 in place of the Spitfire Mk9 Merlin 61 we dont have? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Daiichidoku
06-11-2006, 05:26 PM
cuz the IX was too late and in too few numbers to warrant inclusion in 42

'sides, they are unbalancing enuff in a 43 paneset, let alone 42

still need some concrete "numbers" if you will, that a clipped wing spit flew in action during 42..anyoone? please?

luftluuver
06-11-2006, 06:32 PM
Clip wing Spits did not appear until Nov 42. This was Mod 788.

p1ngu666
06-11-2006, 07:10 PM
perhaps a HF IX, or a CW IX would make a nice addition. (the have worse performance at low level, the cw's wrongly..)

incidently the vokes filter does degrade performance ingame aprently. but then again the spitvb ingame is so woeful... the only lw fighter it can outrun is the 109 e4/b. the e4/b is probably too slow aswell..

oh and a5m-5b was considered the best zero. oleg forgot the rifle cal mg gun, so 5a is better ingame..

Daiichidoku
06-11-2006, 07:48 PM
ok ,seems IXs were delivered to a sqd in july 42

but considering all other options in 42, any IXs will seriously unbalance any planeset, A5s or not...putting IXs in a 42 planeset will ruin it

A6M5bs are best IRL only from the standpoint of having pilot armour, and rudimentary fuel tank prot. (rubberized sheets lol) but this made it overweight/underpowered (along with the 5c's, which also had auto fuel tank fire ext. (also missing along with the extra gun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif), but it's overweight condition was recognised and so production was stopped after 94 examples)

the 5a's retained the better roll of the 5 (carried over from the clipped M3 by re-introducing rounded wings, but shortened length overall), but thicker skin allowed for the highest dive speed of any zero (approx. 440mph indicated), plus higher velocity type99's long barrel with 20 more rpg

Daiichidoku
06-11-2006, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
Clip wing Spits did not appear until Nov 42. This was Mod 788.

all references i could find, online, at least, mention that clippys were produced after june42 testing of fabers 190, hardly conclusive of a 42 date

but at last you have brought something up, Luftluver, thank you!

Spit Vb CW is now in 42 planeset, Nov 42 is close enuff for me to allow Spits a more competitive type choice for 42 survival alternative to the Vbs, Vb LFs and Vc(4)s



oh, you spit fanbois wanting IXs in a 42 planeset hohohhoho http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Daiichidoku
06-11-2006, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
Keep in mind however, seafires have a pair of 60lb monster-rockets as loadout option. Something to consider IMO if vulching with rockets will be allowed.

no vulching http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

but will keep it in mind for future reference anyhow ,tx!

Xiolablu3
06-12-2006, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
Clip wing Spits did not appear until Nov 42. This was Mod 788.

all references i could find, online, at least, mention that clippys were produced after june42 testing of fabers 190, hardly conclusive of a 42 date

but at last you have brought something up, Luftluver, thank you!

Spit Vb CW is now in 42 planeset, Nov 42 is close enuff for me to allow Spits a more competitive type choice for 42 survival alternative to the Vbs, Vb LFs and Vc(4)s



oh, you spit fanbois wanting IXs in a 42 planeset hohohhoho http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was joking about the MkIX, I knew you would not put it in since this server is to be a FW190A5 turkey shoot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The MkIX we have in game in not the 1942 version anyway. The 1942 version has the slower Merlin 61, the 1943 version has the Merlin 66 (the version we have in game.)

Daiichidoku
06-12-2006, 08:41 AM
I know, thats why i used the http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


both you and Pingu said to use the IXs, but no way!

given whats in the list, it wont be a total rout for the A5s anyhow...at least not if the G2 version is used http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Xiolablu3
06-12-2006, 08:49 AM
109G2 is really a 1943 plane just to confuse you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I think its the high rated Finnish G2 we have in the game and thats why its so good.

I could be wrong tho - No doubt someone will tell us if I am right or wrong.