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View Full Version : External views?



Vlad381
06-12-2005, 04:11 PM

Von_Zero
06-12-2005, 04:17 PM
Online, no.
Offline, yes.

nellip
06-13-2005, 04:39 AM
If you don't like online with externals, go to a server that has them switched off!

The difficulty settings are there so people can choose what THEY like - trying to impose what you like on everybody is a bit lame.

You could always try hosting with the settings as you like them?

BBB_Hyperion
06-13-2005, 05:19 AM
Now, I hear you say, the game interface in the cockpit provides an unrealistic LACK of situational awareness. I think with a combination of "padlock" and changing your FOV you can overcome this. It will just be another skill to seperate the Aces from the Novices.

I dont think so. 3D Pilot Vision isnt simulated on struts and armor glass has no refraction effect. Pilot is fixed to 2 points gunsight and non gunsight view viewing angle dont changes position. No lean , No view over the nose nothing fixed position. Try to fly a real plane that way and you will know why that is nonsense.

Suum Cuique ! If you dont like server with external views on dont fly there.

There are some of this so called "full real" alias harder than real servers as well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Is it different to external view servers ? Not much refly , climb , engage ,shoot something or get shoot down, get bounced or escape to alt , repeat or rtb until out of fuel , ammo or dead. Well then we have the different strategies camp at alt dive in and pick out climbing planes great fun but gets boring after a while.

In general conclusion is on df server is arcade action doesnt matter which settings. That lays in the nature of the setup of df missions. TS , Chat allows even without externals to warn friendly pilots of enemy planes. That is pretty much the same as f6 on externals surprise is hardly possible with lots of eyes watching the surrounding sky.

Coops on the other hand can be much better in the realism no refly all planes start at 1 time. The mission is important not ego shooters that only care for k/d ratios and refuse to fly planes that might not be top notch.

idonno
06-13-2005, 05:42 AM
Externals online is about as lame as it gets. Saying that they are needed to make up for the shortcomings of a computer flight sim is like claiming that since the guys on the other football team are all bigger than your guys, you should have one hundred players on the field for every one of theirs.

You can see around the canopy frames by switching between gun sight and regular view, and with a little bit of a turn and/or use of the rudder you can check your six.

If you can't be bothered to make just a little effort then you deserve to be bounced by that unseen enemy.

Don't bother telling me that I can fly the servers that have externals turned off, because I already do. I would be embarrassed to be seen flying on a server with externals enabled.

Bearcat99
06-13-2005, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by idonno:
Externals online is about as lame as it gets. You can see around the canopy frames by switching between gun sight and regular view, and with a little bit of a turn and/or use of the rudder you can check your six.

If you can't be bothered to make just a little effort then you deserve to be bounced by that unseen enemy.

Don't bother telling me that I can fly the servers that have externals turned off, because I already do. I would be embarrassed to be seen flying on a server with externals enabled.

What a bunch of snobbish hotair.. ..... First off.. as far as viewing settings go, as lame as it gets is open pit with externals, icons and map icons... now that's as lame as it gets. Secondly for many flyers the kill is not the main goal.. it is the play.. and the comeraderie. We like to end our missions with everyone landing and lineing up on the tarmac. Which is kind of boring without externals... The graphics in this sim IMO cry out for externals.. we do long missions sometimes and the scenery is just too goodlooking to waste. Of course there IS a place for the full immersive settings.... but IMO there is al;so a place for external views.. and niether one is "lame" in and of itself.

Vlad381
06-13-2005, 06:22 AM
My problem: so far I am yet to find a server with the externals turned off in the lobbys I looked in, maybe "idonno" can point one out to me coz id sure like to go on one of those "harder than real" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif servers.

Also, in no server I have been on has anyone ever use chat to warn of furballs, report their position or that of the enemy, or ever replied when I asked "where's the action?"

Oh and by the way, I am in the Air Cadets and HAVE flown a real plane several times, a small two-seat aerobatic one with a bubble canopy. And I can safely tell you I cannot see anything directly behing me, I cant look at things below me, and I have to bank the plane both ways to check the area before I do any manouvers. It has no magic "F6" button in the cockpit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

VT-51_Razor
06-13-2005, 07:17 AM
Try Zekes vs Wildcats, or Spits vs 109s.

VW-IceFire
06-13-2005, 07:38 AM
Options people...its about options. The game allows for both. It should allow for both.

Many of us are regulars and have a great time at Uk-Dedicated. Externals are on. We find it fun. We don't always like full switch servers so we fly there. Who is anyone else to tell us how we must have fun online?

I appreciate the closed cockpit servers but sometimes I find them boring.

VW-IceFire
06-13-2005, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by Vlad381:
My problem: so far I am yet to find a server with the externals turned off in the lobbys I looked in, maybe "idonno" can point one out to me coz id sure like to go on one of those "harder than real" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif servers.

Also, in no server I have been on has anyone ever use chat to warn of furballs, report their position or that of the enemy, or ever replied when I asked "where's the action?"

Oh and by the way, I am in the Air Cadets and HAVE flown a real plane several times, a small two-seat aerobatic one with a bubble canopy. And I can safely tell you I cannot see anything directly behing me, I cant look at things below me, and I have to bank the plane both ways to check the area before I do any manouvers. It has no magic "F6" button in the cockpit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
Man...you aren't looking very hard. Here's a few of the popular ones off the top of my head:
- WarClouds_WF
- GreaterGreen (not sure if they are offline ATM)
- EasternHotshots
- Zeke_VS_Wildcat
- Spitfire_VS_109

Lots of these servers offer TeamSpeak voice chat options which is nearly essential to get peoples attention. Chatting with people via text is like pulling teeth sometimes...people rarely help, respond, or do anything.

Acme70
06-13-2005, 07:46 AM
I don't play online alot but i would prefer them off but Offline i play with externals on, The reason is i love to take screenshots & use them for wallpaper, The details of the planes is so nice that it's a shame not to be able to admire them & with Ace's IL-2 Mat program giving me dirty & weathered insignia they look even better

Freelancer-1
06-13-2005, 08:09 AM
I like external views for two reasons.

As one of the few people who actually use the runways as opposed to the spawn and run types, it gives me an opportunity to see the layout of the airfield.

As I spend lots of time hanging around in my 'chute I use them to watch my squadmates carry on the good fight.

I've never used them for fighting as I can't imagine trying to fly from outside the cockpit. The game is great to watch from a third person view, so why not take advantage and enjoy the show?

Freelancer

Vlad381
06-13-2005, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Man...you aren't looking very hard. Here's a few of the popular ones off the top of my head:
- WarClouds_WF
- GreaterGreen (not sure if they are offline ATM)
- EasternHotshots
- Zeke_VS_Wildcat
- Spitfire_VS_109

Lots of these servers offer TeamSpeak voice chat options which is nearly essential to get peoples attention. Chatting with people via text is like pulling teeth sometimes...people rarely help, respond, or do anything.

aww, can you please tell a noob like me where to find them? If I open up the Ubi.com "play online" thing they dont show up in the lobbys.

Also, I dont have a headset or microphone.

Cheers

VLad

whiteladder
06-13-2005, 08:48 AM
There are anumber of ways to find a online server Ubi.com is about the worst!

You can use a couple of programs

All seeing eye at
http://gamesdomain.yahoo.com/ase/register

or Hyperlobby at
http://hyperfighter.sk/

You can also use the direct IP and Port in the Multiplay section in game, The two I fly regularly for example.


Zeke vs Wildcat = 69.9.37.146:21005
Spits vs 109s = 69.9.37.146:21010


Hope that helps

Old_Canuck
06-13-2005, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
.... for many flyers the kill is not the main goal.. it is the play.. and the comeraderie. We like to end our missions with everyone landing and lineing up on the tarmac....

Bearcat, if I could find a scenario like this in my time slot I'd be online all the time. Joined a squad in the CFS2 days and what a mistake. Too many ego trippers trying to impress others and themselves by putting others down. Found another team that didn't seem so self destructive but it eventually fell apart due to the same problems. Then there was a CFS3 squad where the leader played mind games on his squaddies but it luckily fell apart due to the clunky nature of the sim itself. On the positive side, I did meet some honorable sim jockeys in passing and it was always a pleasure to salute them when they showed up.

Vlad381
06-13-2005, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by whiteladder:
There are anumber of ways to find a online server Ubi.com is about the worst!

You can use a couple of programs

All seeing eye at
http://gamesdomain.yahoo.com/ase/register

or Hyperlobby at
http://hyperfighter.sk/

You can also use the direct IP and Port in the Multiplay section in game, The two I fly regularly for example.


Zeke vs Wildcat = 69.9.37.146:21005
Spits vs 109s = 69.9.37.146:21010


Hope that helps

Cheers man http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif got HL and finding lots of stuff

Old_Canuck
06-13-2005, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Vlad381:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whiteladder:
There are anumber of ways to find a online server Ubi.com is about the worst!

You can use a couple of programs

All seeing eye at
http://gamesdomain.yahoo.com/ase/register

or Hyperlobby at
http://hyperfighter.sk/

You can also use the direct IP and Port in the Multiplay section in game, The two I fly regularly for example.


Zeke vs Wildcat = 69.9.37.146:21005
Spits vs 109s = 69.9.37.146:21010


Hope that helps

Cheers man http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif got HL and finding lots of stuff </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Vlad. I took a screenshot of these addresses for future reference.

VW-IceFire
06-13-2005, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Vlad381:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Man...you aren't looking very hard. Here's a few of the popular ones off the top of my head:
- WarClouds_WF
- GreaterGreen (not sure if they are offline ATM)
- EasternHotshots
- Zeke_VS_Wildcat
- Spitfire_VS_109

Lots of these servers offer TeamSpeak voice chat options which is nearly essential to get peoples attention. Chatting with people via text is like pulling teeth sometimes...people rarely help, respond, or do anything.

aww, can you please tell a noob like me where to find them? If I open up the Ubi.com "play online" thing they dont show up in the lobbys.

Also, I dont have a headset or microphone.

Cheers

VLad </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As HL has already been pointed out, I will just make the following comment: Banish UBI.com from your computer with a large 2x4 and never look back. HL is where its at...for all types and kinds of flyers.

As for the headset...you can get a cheap one for $10, a cheap mic for maybe $4-$5 and a very good headset mic for $25-$30. If you can afford this game, you can afford one of those http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I highly recommend the Altec Lansing AHS202: http://www.alteclansing.com/product_details.asp?pID=AHS202i

AerialTarget
06-13-2005, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Vlad381:
I think with a combination of "padlock" and changing your FOV you can overcome this. It will just be another skill to seperate the Aces from the Novices.

That skill, of course, is one completely irrelevant to real life. A real fighter pilot with a dozen kills coming here and playing the game would be just as unaccustomed to the views as any other new player. I suppose you would say that that makes him a novice until he learns how to fumble better with the hat?

Now, if you'd ever flown a real airplane, you'd know that the only places you can't see in a low winged aircraft are below you, below your wings, and below your tail. Also, cockpit struts appear completely transparent in real life when you are looking at something behind them. Next time you are in your car, look at one of the car's "struts," then look at something past it. Whoa! It's transparent!

In addition, even with wide field of view (which is extremely limiting because you can't see things clearly in it like in real life), you don't have the field of vision that you do in real life. If you are looking directly left in real life, you can still tell where your airplane is headed. In the game, you can't.

Therefore, the only unrealistic advantages external views give you are sight below your aircraft, and never missing an enemy fighter (something real eyes, of course, can do when they sweep the skies). Externals are only as unrealistic of an advantage as no externals is unrealistic of a disadvantage.

I'm really sick of these snobby "full real" kids, most of whom have ever flown an airplane, trying to tell me what's realistic or not. Perhaps you are half-blind in real life; in the last thread on this, several of the "full real" advocates admitted to being so. Well, Im sorry for your vision, but please don't expect me to share your real life handicap in the virtual world!

Not using externals can only be equated to a real life pilot who is half-blind and has limited motor functions in his neck, wearing a neck brace and a body cast, and looking through a cardboard tube. ...Not exactly a man fit for combat, or even fit for flight at all!

AerialTarget
06-13-2005, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
As HL has already been pointed out, I will just make the following comment: Banish UBI.com from your computer with a large 2x4 and never look back. HL is where its at...for all types and kinds of flyers.

I hear this so often. You Hyperlobby elitists boggle me; what does Hyperlobby have over Ubi.com as a program? I will tell you - it has nothing. It is harder to find a game using your realism settings, as you have to click on each server individually. There is no built in chat interface. And people don't know about it by default. Those are three major flaws that Ubi.com doesn't have. Ubi.com has no flaws at all, except for a mildly annoying artistic style. And yet you all claim that Hyperlobby is the superior program. What is your reason for pooh-poohing Ubi.com?

Vlad381
06-13-2005, 03:09 PM
Being new to both systems I'll give a balanced view. Ubi.com has about 1/5 the number of servers as HL. As pointed out above I failed to find the mentionned servers on Ubi.com but found them instantly on HL. And, news flash, HL does have chat.

As for "full realism snobbishness" I must say I enjoyed the full immersion servers ive been on. But as someone said, I will stop imposing my views on others.

baboomerang
06-13-2005, 04:13 PM
I agree with ArialTarget. I'm new to this IL-2 malarky, I only have FB ver. 1.22 (and PC struggles with that), and when I checked out Hyperlobby last night there wasn't a single server that I could join.... on Ubi.com, no problem.

As for the Externals debate... I fly with left hand on the mouse, right hand on stick; my view is that fiddling about with a mouse, internal view or external, has got to be loads more difficult / disorientating than looking around in real life.

Me and I'm sure many other virtual pilots have a one-handed-handicap against the Track IR-wearing, teamspeak-talking, HOTAS jockeys out there - but I'm not complaining, if I can shoot someone else down or if I'm getting blown out the sky I'm still laughing all the way to the ground http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif THIS GAME ROCKS!

(as it's my first post I thought I'd better make it a loud one)

Pivot2163
06-13-2005, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by idonno:
Externals online is about as lame as it gets. You can see around the canopy frames by switching between gun sight and regular view, and with a little bit of a turn and/or use of the rudder you can check your six.

If you can't be bothered to make just a little effort then you deserve to be bounced by that unseen enemy.

Don't bother telling me that I can fly the servers that have externals turned off, because I already do. I would be embarrassed to be seen flying on a server with externals enabled.

What a bunch of snobbish hotair.. ..... First off.. as far as viewing settings go, as lame as it gets is open pit with externals, icons and map icons... now that's as lame as it gets. Secondly for many flyers the kill is not the main goal.. it is the play.. and the comeraderie. We like to end our missions with everyone landing and lineing up on the tarmac. Which is kind of boring without externals... The graphics in this sim IMO cry out for externals.. we do long missions sometimes and the scenery is just too goodlooking to waste. Of course there IS a place for the full immersive settings.... but IMO there is al;so a place for external views.. and niether one is "lame" in and of itself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said Bearcat. I have to say I love the fly-by view it does it all in LoMac. & the orbit shows the expertice in the 3d modelling those guys / gals used when making this sim. I agree that padlock external is an online killer, but I've played with orbit and it's even tough to try and keep up with any bogies via mouse or hat switch.

But I digress.

This sim was made for not only immersion but to be visually pleasing.. & that it is.. So in turn it doesn't matter to me one way or the other, but as it is now you could make your own TOP-GUN movie and I'm glad they made this feature in there..

Jex_TG
06-14-2005, 06:47 AM
I Prefer no externals if I'm going against other human pilots, and auto-padlock is a no-no too. Creeping up on someone who has externals on is not going to happen, and I enjoy the cramped feeling you get because that's what some realife fighter pilots had to put up with.

You cannot see directly what is at your six in a lot of these planes and externals off simulates this experience. Of course, I would like to ditch the **** monitor in favour of a holodeck but they don't exist and we have to make do.

If i'm flying against AI with friends then externals on because I like to look at the models.

The new vector expansion I think allows you to lean around the cockpit - looking forward to seeing this implemented.

Old_Canuck
06-14-2005, 10:50 AM
Icefire, AerialTarget, Bearcat and Baboomarang all weighing in against the elitist "Full Real/Full Switch" full whatever snobbery. My how things have evolved around here. As Icefire stated, it's about options. Let people CHOOSE which server they want to play on. Whatever the settings, everyone who joins will have the same advantage right? What if a server with external views attracts the majority of players? Is that a bad thing? I'm suspicious of anyone who actively limits the choices of others.

Let the hosts set up their servers however they want and watch how it turns out as the players decided for themselves.

ClnlSandersLite
06-14-2005, 01:18 PM
Next time you are in your car, look at one of the car's "struts," then look at something past it. Whoa! It's transparent!

This really depends. On the newer dodge/chrysler/plymouth/etc vans, the roof supporys are EXTREMELY large and bulky. It make for some ****ing TERRIBLE blind spots.

Bearcat99
06-14-2005, 02:32 PM
AT have you tried to host through a router at UBI?

OC.. feel free to jump into a 99th coop anytime.

Pivot.... The flyby gets me too... I like to hit it everytime I drop my wingtanks.....

Tully__
06-15-2005, 01:00 AM
Offline: User's choice
Online: Off in dogfight servers, on in coop servers ('cept competition/ladder coops)

Old_Canuck
06-15-2005, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
.... OC.. feel free to jump into a 99th coop anytime.

.....

TY Sir. Making a note of that for July when there's a brief change in the work schedule.