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V.NABUKOV
11-16-2004, 01:54 PM
I have flown some missions and started Leningrad 1941 I16 campaign, full realism execpt speed-bar. FB/AEP 2.01

I think that my german AI-opponents act so stupid and unprofessional so I manipulated the dynamic campaign files for a test. Five times I compared the bombresults of a He111 with four 500kg bombs with the results of a TB bomber, same hight(4500m), speed 350km/h, skill(Veteran) resistance (2 AAA) and targets (4 15cm artillery-pieces), though the TB got only 3 500kg bombs.
Four times got the TB better hits and one time it was equal. The 88mm AAA didnt fire at my planes but my 90mm AAA did and damaged the He111:s rather bad.
Was the russian bombers/bombs better?
They fly over airbases that is infested with AAA. They start to curvfight at low level with a Me109 against a I16. A have shoot down 9 germans on three missions.
Must I fly as LW-pilot to get real opposition

Atomic_Marten
11-16-2004, 01:56 PM
No m8. Russian AI planes ain't better. I was flyin' both sides v2.04.

carguy_
11-16-2004, 02:01 PM
You don`t have to do much thinking to turn your plane around.

German planes aren`t meant to do this,but it`s ver hard to model AI that would be albe to perform B&Z.

V.NABUKOV
11-16-2004, 02:29 PM
No it is not much thinking in just turning round and round. But why is it programmed this way?
It dont show how I think it was during WWII. I would never gone into a low-level dogfight with my 109 against a I-16. Why is the AI made this way?
Why doesnt german AAA opens fire and why does the He111 miss the target so often?

If a AI-pilot in my squad? is damaged it tries to fly to the airbase but a german AI-pilot keep on flying and after a while it crashes. I have not so big experience of this game, but it seems a my AI-pilots in I-16:s acts more intelligent.

Its like a arcadegame where my bullits hit harder. Ive also tried some mission in a IL-2 but I managed to shoot down german fighters. The IL-2 dont need fighter escort and it is very good in taking down Heinkels with.

Atomic_Marten
11-16-2004, 02:34 PM
For German bombers, you can easily check that out (% of hitting in comparison to other bombers). Set up a bombing mission in FMB, and for bombers one time choose He111s, second TB3s (and others).

KGr.HH-Sunburst
11-16-2004, 05:02 PM
german AI is very stupid in fighting the VVS
this sim only models turn fighting or "get on the six of an enemy right away without thinking"
just try a QMB with 4 ace FW190D9's or any other FW with you included vs 4 ACE spit mkIX or La5/7s or whatever low E bleed plane there is climb up with your flight before the merge and keep the 4 Doras together and just after the merge order them to attack ,you will see them dive down and attack then right after the first pass they yank and bank like hell and bleed of all E just to stay on the six of the enemy and get shot down within seconds

IMO this should be looked at because the German AI is at a huge disadvantage when flying offline
as they dont apply proper tactics

as for the bomber AI i dont know

Tully__
11-17-2004, 01:28 AM
The household computer doesn't have enough computing power to model a really sophisticated air combat routine for one fighter, much less for up to 20 at a time while also modelling complex 3D graphics, calculating bullet collisions, calculating realtime flight models responses for all those planes etc... Something had to be compromised. In the case of this sim, AI flight models and AI tactical routines are among the compromises.

That being said, the AI is a lot more sophisticated in the latest release in the series than it was in the original IL2 Sturmovik.

SeaFireLIV
11-17-2004, 04:32 AM
Not sure what version of FB you have or the difficulty you`re flying on , but as Tully said, LW AI fly much better than they used to. They certainly do more than just turn fight. I`ve had them B&Z me several times, even dragging me up into the air and coming back at me. Again, much depends on AI expeience level, whether you face Aces or Rookies.

Also, historicallly, overconfident LW pilots were shot down by I16s when they came in too low and tried taking them on instead of B&Zing, it DID happen in REALITY! Obviously, the wise LW pilots (most of them) would not make this mistake after the 1st losses.

Aaron_GT
11-17-2004, 06:32 AM
If AI programming to recognise formations and dynamic situations was soluble in a reasonable budget the real military would use nothing but autonomous unmanned aircraft (saves weight on the pilot, systems to protect the pilot, etc, etc). They don't. This suggests it's a hard problem.

plumps_
11-17-2004, 08:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by V.NABUKOV:
Five times I compared the bombresults of a He111 with four 500kg bombs with the results of a TB bomber, same hight(4500m), speed 350km/h, skill(Veteran) resistance (2 AAA) and targets (4 15cm artillery-pieces), though the TB got only 3 500kg bombs.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
350 km/h is above the TB-3's top speed. So it was actually flying slower than the He-111. Maybe that's the reason why it got better hits.

Was it the TB-3 4M-34R or the TB-3 4M-17? The latter can't go much faster than 200 km/h.

plumps_
11-17-2004, 08:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by V.NABUKOV:
Why doesnt german AAA opens fire ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Were the weather conditions the same in both missions? In bad weather the heavy AAA will open fire at much shorter distances than in good conditions. Very often that's the reason why the AAA never starts to fire.

Also in the FMB there's a 'Timeout' setting and the new 'Hold Fire' feature that both might prevent AAA from firing.

And of course if within a mission you change the color/army of the bomber from Blue (He-111) to Red (TB-3) without changing the color of the AAA they won't fire at their own army...

MagnumHK
11-17-2004, 12:38 PM
Try flying with these settings in FB/AEP v2.04 and then see what you think about the enemy AI.

CampaignMissions=Hard
CampaignAI=Hard

These setting are at the end of your config.ini file. Try three campaign missions to give it a chance.

V.NABUKOV
11-17-2004, 04:56 PM
Thanks for all tips. The status for both bomber-squads was veteran. The weather was the same, fine and clouds at 900m.The two bombersquad was in the same mission and bombed artillerybatteries at open plain area.

My version of the game is the second newest. I started a campaign and Ive heard that the you must start from beginning again.

I might have mistaken me at the speed but booth got the same speed 350. My experience is that if you set the speed above topspeed, it is automtically set to topspeed. Our plane was a DB3F 1941 with 3xFAB-500. I think it looked like a Heinkel.

The timeouts where never changed.
The german groundtarget was defended by blue 88mm AAA, and our was defended by red 90mm AAA.
Althoug the bombs from the Heinkels came rather close to the AA-guns it wasnt destroyed. But the our bombs destroyed buildings and cars at quite a large area around "ground Zero".

My config.ini or any other ini-file has anything like

CampaignMissions=Hard
CampaignAI=Hard

Can I add this?

I usually fly AH2 and their AI isnt so stupid I think.

When a russian pilot got its engine smooking it returned to base, but the german flew on until the engine stopped and it crashed. He didnt try to hit the silk althoug it was over his own territory.
The russian pilot was not far away from his base. Perhaps this matters too.

MagnumHK
11-19-2004, 10:01 PM
You have to open your config.ini file in notepad. These above mentioned two lines are located almost at the very end of this file. Simply change the NORMAL or EASY setting to HARD. Save your changes and you are done.

The config.ini file is located in your IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles folder. Hope this helps.

Full path with standard install is:
C:\Program Files\Ubi Soft\IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles