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View Full Version : So you think you've done everything in SP Campaigns?



PBNA-Boosher
12-22-2005, 08:42 PM
Right, you've flown a successful fighter campaign, you achieved Ace status, you may have even more than 5 kills, ou might even have 100 kills. You may have led your SBD or Stuka down daring dives, you ripped apart your targets, your war is over, but no, you haven't done everything.

Through the campaigns you have served, you have not fulfilled one duty. Go back 4 years, maybe 6 years. It's 1939. You sign up for flight training, you may have passed Primary, you may have failed it, you may have passed secondary, you may have failed it. You may even be legally blind, you might have some small detail you never knew about, but you cannot legally fly for the USAAF/Luftwaffe/IJA/USN/IJN.

Instead of becoming some ground-infantry "grunt," you decide to apply for aerial-gunnery school. You pass, finally. Well, now that's you, a gunner in a bomber. It might be a USN SBD-3/5, it could be a German Ju-87 Stuka, or even a Heinkel He-111! you could be a gunner in a US Army Air Corps B-25 or A-20, a Russian IL2 gunner, a D3A Val gunner, the limit is endless, but according to these conditions:

-One gunner position, no switching to save yourself. Your crew position doesn't change. It never did during the war. You may only change in instances of waist guns, which commonly were used by one man or two men switching off.

-Right, you've flown a successful fighter campaign, you achieved Ace status, you may have even more than 5 kills, ou might even have 100 kills. You may have led your SBD or Stuka down daring dives, you ripped apart your targets, your war is over, but no, you haven't done everything.

- You must survive a full campaign. I'm going USAAC standards- 25 missions. Finish them, your campaign is over, you can go home.

-You must keep a log of your flights. Whether you do this in an actual loose leaf journal, or a word or Notepad file. When your campaign finishes (death, wounds, or you make it alive) try and publish it up here.

-Dead is dead. Wounded is wounded. Captured is captured. If this happens to you, you must either give up or restart from mission 1.

-Full real. No externals, cockpit only. Minimap and speedbar not necessary. However, you don't have to have a successful mission every time, I forget what that difficulty setting is, but as long as you're alive and on friendly lines, you're fine.

-As you do this, attempt to make it the only thing you do. I know it's hard. But concentration in a bomber campaign is essential . If you miss that one half second you can cost the lives of your entire crew. So, please, only do this if you have time.

Why? I would like an experiment, hopefully we can come to some conclusion about the odds of our own virtual pilots as a bomber crewman. Compare this to the actual odds of a crewman? surviving mayble 15 of their 25. 3/5's. How do we stand up to the odds? I'll try it. Let's see.

MLudner
12-22-2005, 08:55 PM
Datum: 15 Jul 41 Start: 0555 Landung: 0643
Flugzeug: Bf-109F4 Aus: FP Vitebsk, Byelorussia Zu FP Vitebsk, Byelorussia
2 Staffel was sent to patrol the skies between Vitebsk and Pervoe to cover flights still shifting to Vitebsk. The VVS sent waves of fighters against us in an attempt to interfere with the transfer.
1st 3 Schwarm was intercepted by 3 Pe-3s and 3 LaGG-3s, I moved in support. All 6 VVS pilots were shot down with no losses. Next 2 Schwarm found 3 LaGGs and we attacked, I attack-
ed one, causing it to burst into flames and crash. Upon looping back to Vitebsk we saw a kette of U2VSes closing on our FP and attacked. I succeeded in shooting 1 down, FLAK got 1, and 7
the last. We then saw a kette of MiGs closing and attacked, I was damaged lightly and turned on my pursuer, damaging him and chasing him into the ground. Now another kette of LaGGs arrived
and attacked. I out-maneuvered them, snuck up on one, and shot him down, using up the last of my kanonen munitionen. I then pursued the other until my fuel warning light came on, forcing me
to break-off and land. Anspruchen: 4; 2 LaGG-3, 1 MiG-3, 1 U-2VS / Luftsieg: 25 - Olt. Manfred Ludner, 2/2/I/JG51

danjama
12-22-2005, 08:58 PM
Sounds like a nice idea.

MLudner
12-22-2005, 08:58 PM
Date: 10 Jul 41 T/O 0505 Land. X
Aircraft LaGG-3 From Pochinok To Between Dubovno & Smolensk
We were sent out to intercept a German raid on one of our Airbases near Smolensk. We intercepted over Dubovno. I attacked a
Stuka, but only managed to seriously damage it in my first pass. While closing for a second I was attacked from behind by 2 Bf-
109E7's. I dove and managed to shake them from my tail, then turn the tables and attack one, damaging him and causing him to
crash. The other got back in behind me and while trying to evade, I crashed and was slightly wounded but escaped alive. Twice
now I am a victory for Bf-109s, but as I have shot down 3 times that many Germans I do not feel so bad about it.
Claims: .5 Ju-87B, 1 Bf-109E7 / Victories: 7 - ML Vladimir Rasputin

MLudner
12-22-2005, 09:00 PM
Date: Dec 7,1941 Take-Off: 0751 Landing: 0849
Aircraft: P-40C From: Haleiwa AAF To: Haleiwa AAF
My God! When I woke-up this morning over at Wheeler Field I had no idea I was going to war today. 1Lt. Hansen and I took
a jeep up to Haleiwa Field because he wanted to practice combat maneuvering this morning. We had 2 P-40C€s prepped and waiting
when we arrived to find 1Lt. Daniels and 2Lt. Griffith were already there prepping a pair of old P-36 Mohawks with the same thing
on their minds. We were actually taxiing along the taxiway when Lt. Hansen spotted a large number of aircraft passing east and also
north of Haleiwa Field. It did not take us long to realize that they were Japs because we managed to make out the red circles under
their wings. I have never felt such a shock! My stomach squeezed itself into a pea and my heart went racing on ahead of my P-40!
We turned onto the runway ahead of the P-36s and wasted no time running up and taking off. I kept a tight watch behind as I was
sure I€d find a Zero coming at me any second. However, Lt. Hansen and I were climbing and turning back to chase the Japs and
the P-36€s were up and doing the same before a pair of Jap Zeros came diving down on them. Lt. Hansen turned into the fray and
caught one from behind and swiftly shot it down. I stayed with him and covered his tail as he then went after the other Jap, who was
still attacking Lt.€s Daniels and Griffith. He swung in behind the Jap and hit him hard, causing the Jap to crash. However, Lt.
Hansen was now out of ammo and had no choice but to return to Haleiwa Field €" which was immediately north as this fight had taken
place in the area of Haleiwa. I decided to head for Pearl and see if I could be of any use. I climbed to 5,000 ft and flew south
along the west coast of Oahu. As I closed on Pearl Harbor I saw great clouds of black smoke, a mass of tracer fire arcing into the
sky and a large mass of Jap bombers swarming over the base. As I descended to intercept it became evident that the Japs had com-
pleted their mission and were heading north-west away from Pearl in the general direction of Kaneohe NAS and Burrows Field. As
I was closing on a bomber (It was a Kate) that was at the rear of the mass of Japs I saw a pair of escorting Zeros passing my left
almost a mile away going in the opposite direction and knew they maneuvering onto my tail. It now became a race for the bomber. I
got there first. I opened fire on the Kate from below and behind, inflicting damage, but his dorsal gunner responded and jammed one
of my machineguns. I put two more bursts into it and saw smoke begin coming from his engine I began taking fire from behind and was
hit, though not seriously. I knew it was from the Zeros and I dove immediately in hopes of escaping them. Evidently my P-40C was
faster and I soon pulled ahead. I now flew north along the eastern coast of Oahu, pursued by both Japs all the way. Once at the
north shore I saw that the Japs were far behind and decided that I would attempt a head-on attack in the hope of creaming one on
the spot, leaving me with only one to fight. However, the Japs turned west. I looped onto their tails, thinking maybe they had not seen
me. I then tried to close from below and behind, but another Jap appeared and turned onto my tail, forcing me to break and dive
away. As I passed Haleiwa Field I noted that the Jap had not pursued and was now heading south. I turned and attempted to
slip up on him. However, the other two then turned back on me and damaged me again before I pull away. At this time I realized
I could accomplish nothing more and decided to return to Haleiwa Field and land. As I passed south of Haleiwa Field in order to
Date: Take-Off: Landing:
Aircraft: From: To:
enter the pattern the Tower warned me a lone Zero was approaching from my 6. I turned and looked back, spotting the Zero a good
distance behind and swiftly determined that he was entirely alone. I chose to turn and attack. The Jap pulled to his left to avoid
the head-on attack and accidentally exposed his tail. I turned onto it and fired with good effect at about 300 yards. I saw much
debris in the air after my burst. The Jap attempted to evade by diving away, but we both learned that evidently a P-40 dives faster
than a Zero and I soon caught him and hit him with another burst that left his engine trailing white smoke. The Jap then performed
a series of tight, low-speed scissor turns that I could not match. I was forced to break right and down to avoid letting him get on my
tail. I looped in a tight turn to get back onto his tail and noted that I was now trailing smoke from the damage I had sustained
earlier. None-the-less, I chased him as he tried to escape to the south. I caught him and my next burst severed the rear portion of his
fuselage. The Jap did not bail-out and died with his plane. I then managed to land safely, my engine sputtering all the way back.
I was pleased when I discovered that all four of us who had taken-off an hour earlier had returned safely to Haleiwa Field.

Claims: 1 Zero destroyed, 1 Kate damaged €" 1.5 / Victories: 1.5 2
- Second Lieutenant Mead G. Burrows, 3rd / 47th Pursuit Squadron



Note: I was awarded a second victory for the Kate. Naval personnel at Kaneohe saw me attack the Kate and reported it went down
in flames north-east of their NAS. Also, for pursuing and attacking the Japs single-handedly I have been put in for the Silver Star
and a promotion to First Lieutenant.

MLudner
12-22-2005, 09:06 PM
Three log entries from three of my pilots. That is just what I do! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

PBNA-Boosher
12-22-2005, 09:25 PM
Very Nice MLudner, but these are reports of a fighter campaign. I'm asking people to try a bomber campaign as a bomber gunner.

mortoma
12-22-2005, 09:54 PM
I've tried sitting through campaigns as a gunner on several bombers but I rarely get a chance to shoot down enemy planes. Mostly because Dgen generates over-escorted bomber flights. The only time I've had success is when I went into FMB and modified the mission beforehand, by reducing the number of little friends escorting my flight or increasing the number of enemy, or both. Messing with their skill level helps too. But I got tired of having to pre-edit all my missions.

One edited mission I flew as a B-25 tail gunner I ws able to shoot down three zeros. But that was an edited mission. Had I not edited it I probably would have never gotten close to a zero.

PBNA-Boosher
12-22-2005, 09:56 PM
In which case you got lucky. If a Zeke had gotten through you might have been smoked jerky.

Kuna15
12-23-2005, 05:20 AM
Bad thing is that I cannot bail in case of emergency, it is a known bug -- player can bail only from pilot position.
I have played SBD campaign and it is very hard to survive with IJN fighters in pursuit (let alone flak over target areas). I have sink only one larger Japanese ship (iirc it was a cruiser) and few other merchants in around 70 missions or so. All other destroyed targets were objects on airfields, vehicle convoys.
tbh it is more dangerous to attack good defended airfield than carrier fleet from my experience with SBD campaign (I have only one run on enemy carrier from mid/high alt). If miss or hit I'm going straight for home on high speed and decent alt. When attacking airfields I will usually make second and third pass and that is when AA usually cripples/destroy me.

Also I would stand much much more chance vs human players because they have no idea when or where my SBD group is going to strike. AI always knows so it is kinda impossible to reach target undetected. Also I can fly below best human players online (sneak up) or use clouds, alternative routes etc. That does not work with enemy AI fighters. So it's kinda ... hard http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

PBNA-Boosher
12-23-2005, 09:59 AM
That's the whole point. Can we attempt to stand up to the deeds we are trying to recreate.

han freak solo
12-23-2005, 10:08 AM
Very interesting idea........

mortoma
12-23-2005, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Kuna15:
Bad thing is that I cannot bail in case of emergency, it is a known bug -- player can bail only from pilot position.
I have played SBD campaign and it is very hard to survive with IJN fighters in pursuit (let alone flak over target areas). I have sink only one larger Japanese ship (iirc it was a cruiser) and few other merchants in around 70 missions or so. All other destroyed targets were objects on airfields, vehicle convoys.
tbh it is more dangerous to attack good defended airfield than carrier fleet from my experience with SBD campaign (I have only one run on enemy carrier from mid/high alt). If miss or hit I'm going straight for home on high speed and decent alt. When attacking airfields I will usually make second and third pass and that is when AA usually cripples/destroy me.

Also I would stand much much more chance vs human players because they have no idea when or where my SBD group is going to strike. AI always knows so it is kinda impossible to reach target undetected. Also I can fly below best human players online (sneak up) or use clouds, alternative routes etc. That does not work with enemy AI fighters. So it's kinda ... hard http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. You got that right, it's very hard to survive as a SBD gunner!! I had a mission the other day where I went into FMB and replayed a Dgen mission. But set myself up as a gunner in an SBD instead of a pilot of a Hellcat
pilot like the original campaign mission. I am not kidding, I was tail end Charlie and a flock of Georges came right up behind my plane but they were after planes in front of mine and did not pay any attention to my plane. Well, they all flew up right behind and slightly above my plane and I was able to empty my weapon into two different Georges and I must have scored nearly 90% hits, that's how close they were. I also saw many flashes around their engine compartments.
But there was no effect at all!! I even cycled through the enemies in external view and none of the Georges had any signs of damage other than I could see little holes in their planes. There was no smoke, no leaks!! Most of them later got shot down by Hellcats though.
I guess either the defensive gun on the SBD is under modeled or the DM of the George is way too tough, at least from the front. Had that been real life, they would have been smoked by my MG fire.

neural_dream
12-23-2005, 10:54 AM
bumping and hijacking


Originally posted by MLudner:
Three log entries from three of my pilots. That is just what I do! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
MLunder, since you do write, I think people would like to read a DiD diary or journal of yours, as in this one:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5631091873

MLudner
12-23-2005, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Very Nice MLudner, but these are reports of a fighter campaign. I'm asking people to try a bomber campaign as a bomber gunner.

Well, frankly, I suck as a bomber pilot. I have tried, but with little success. But, you did mentions doing it in a fighter campaign, so...

MLudner
12-23-2005, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by neural_dream:
bumping and hijacking

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
Three log entries from three of my pilots. That is just what I do! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
MLunder, since you do write, I think people would like to read a DiD diary or journal of yours, as in this one:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5631091873 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'll look into that. They're not available on this computer...

LStarosta
12-23-2005, 11:16 AM
Boosher...

How the fack do you have the time to do every campaign in FB?



Oh wait. Nevermind. . .

PBNA-Boosher
12-23-2005, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
Bad thing is that I cannot bail in case of emergency, it is a known bug -- player can bail only from pilot position.
I have played SBD campaign and it is very hard to survive with IJN fighters in pursuit (let alone flak over target areas). I have sink only one larger Japanese ship (iirc it was a cruiser) and few other merchants in around 70 missions or so. All other destroyed targets were objects on airfields, vehicle convoys.
tbh it is more dangerous to attack good defended airfield than carrier fleet from my experience with SBD campaign (I have only one run on enemy carrier from mid/high alt). If miss or hit I'm going straight for home on high speed and decent alt. When attacking airfields I will usually make second and third pass and that is when AA usually cripples/destroy me.

Also I would stand much much more chance vs human players because they have no idea when or where my SBD group is going to strike. AI always knows so it is kinda impossible to reach target undetected. Also I can fly below best human players online (sneak up) or use clouds, alternative routes etc. That does not work with enemy AI fighters. So it's kinda ... hard http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. You got that right, it's very hard to survive as a SBD gunner!! I had a mission the other day where I went into FMB and replayed a Dgen mission. But set myself up as a gunner in an SBD instead of a pilot of a Hellcat
pilot like the original campaign mission. I am not kidding, I was tail end Charlie and a flock of Georges came right up behind my plane but they were after planes in front of mine and did not pay any attention to my plane. Well, they all flew up right behind and slightly above my plane and I was able to empty my weapon into two different Georges and I must have scored nearly 90% hits, that's how close they were. I also saw many flashes around their engine compartments.
But there was no effect at all!! I even cycled through the enemies in external view and none of the Georges had any signs of damage other than I could see little holes in their planes. There was no smoke, no leaks!! Most of them later got shot down by Hellcats though.
I guess either the defensive gun on the SBD is under modeled or the DM of the George is way too tough, at least from the front. Had that been real life, they would have been smoked by my MG fire. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never went up against Georges in an SBD, but armed with two closely concentrated .30's. Against Zekes and Oscars, the SBD is a deadly, deadly target. Attacking from dead six will leave you dead in a matter of seconds if the pilot and gunner are in cooperation with each other. A slight yawing to the left or right opens up a new field of targets, which the .30's more than adequately can destroy.

Your mission with .30 cal guns is not to rip planes apart, it's to wreak havoc in the internals of the plane. Fuel tank leaks, fires, control wires, etc... That is your goal. A .30 caliber gun isn't powerful enough to rip to shreds, it must fragment the inside. The problem, you have to concentrate the fire on only ONE section.

I've eliminated Zekes in 1/2 second bursts, same with Oscars. Vals don't stand much of chance either. But I'll give it a go against the IJA birds, I've never tried it before unless against a Ki-43.

EDIT: Also remember, the George is a radial, I've made this mistake too. Don't shoot the engine from the front, shoot behind it or the side of it. WIng roots. Radial engines absorb damage well.