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View Full Version : flikkering horizon. How do get rid of it?



FA_Whisky
09-24-2006, 09:10 AM
The land at the horizon looks terrible. How can i get rid of the flikkering and egdy lines. When i set the settings to excelent it all looks a bit blurry(and good!!), but the water looks bad. AS and AF filtering does not seem to help, it just lowers my fps. Anyone?
Got a 6800le(i know, its getting slow)


http://home.planet.nl/~roelo085/Pics/grab0002.jpg

Foo.bar
09-24-2006, 01:17 PM
AA settings?

FA_Whisky
09-24-2006, 01:50 PM
Setting AA or AF to max has no effect. Just lower framerates.

FritzGryphon
09-24-2006, 03:25 PM
That screen looks very normal to me.

AF won't affect it, as the islands are seperate objects from the water. AFAIK, AF only smooths a texture within a single object.

If AA doesn't fix this, nothing will. It might have something to do with how the waves and surf are rendered in perfect as opposed to excellent.

VW-IceFire
09-24-2006, 06:32 PM
Yeah thats pretty normal. You can dissipate it with a higher resolution but the AA effects don't interact with the change between the pixel shaded water and the edge of the land.

FA_Whisky
09-24-2006, 10:55 PM
Than this might be something that needs a little fix. Think it will be possible to make a mix between perfect and excellent settings? Just to smothen the land a little.

F19_Ob
09-25-2006, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
That screen looks very normal to me.

.

The screenshot looks ok but perhaps he means the sharp shorelines close to the horison flickers and kind of rolls?

On my 6800GT I could reduce that effect by disabling anisotropic filtering alltogether and set the quality slider on 'best (fastest) performance', and enabling trillineary optimation, anisotropic mipfilteroptimation and anisotropic samplingoptimation (translated from swedish http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )
For me this smoothed the lines somewhat in the distance and they stopped flickering so badly.
I can now set the Antialiasing to full with decent framerates, wich I do offline.
Still shorelines flicker at longer distances but stops at closer range.
By using hase in the simulation one can reduce the distance flickering, and the more weather one use the better.
Clear weather in the sim is too clear I guess, because the distant terrain don't have lods the same way as planes and therefore the thinnest lines are not thin and this means that a curved surface like a shorline will have jagged edges wich infact move as the simulation progresses, wich is seen as flickering.
So it's really about doing something about the distance terrain and so far only adding hase works best.

Usually also Anisotropic filtering is less good in flight-simulations because the air thins lines out in the distance but the anisotropic filter does the opposit.
Anisotropic is good for shorter perspective games where the space one moves in is only a few hundred meters or so, but not on 5km or more. A simmer wants the distance lines more and more blurred with increasing distance.

So in a sim it's a good idea to add some hase wich helps smoothing the lines in the distance. Clear weather is bad because it leaves shorelines sharp close to the horison, wich causes them to flicker.
I think also the white edges of some shorelines, or is it white of the waves hitting the shoreline?
white comes out whashed out in the sim and thats why we must be careful using white when making skins.
Perhaps it's the white sharp lines that jumps up and bites u in the face?

A few screens how haze helps:
1. Clear weather makes shorelines flicker in the distance:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickerin...es/Clear-weather.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickering%20shorelines/Clear-weather.jpg)

2. Haze is better but still flickers:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickering%20shorelines/haze.jpg

3. Poor weather gives smoother shorelines and still good visibility, wich I like best.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickerin...s/Poor-weather_1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickering%20shorelines/Poor-weather_1.jpg)

4. Another shot of poor weather closer to shorelines at the distance where jaggines transitions to detailed smother shorelines, wich gives a good transition of haze in the distance and good vis closer:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickerin...s/Poor-weather_2.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickering%20shorelines/Poor-weather_2.jpg)

5. Blind weather is the best for smooth distance but the visibility is not so good.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickerin...es/Blind-weather.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickering%20shorelines/Blind-weather.jpg)


Well what I think.

DeadMorose_rus
09-27-2006, 09:02 PM
It's all about antialiasing. The water is transparent and drown by shaders. Theres an option in drivers to smooth the edges of tranparent textures, but only textures =(
May be you should not use perfect modes or fly under DirectX, then those lines would be smooth, cause the water shall use textures. I think so =)

FA_Whisky
09-28-2006, 12:13 PM
The screenshot looks ok but perhaps he means the sharp shorelines close to the horison flickers and kind of rolls?

Up, thats what i mean!! I'll try the settings.

F19_Ob
10-01-2006, 09:18 AM
Here are a couple of big pics (with text)that better describe the problem with flickering shore-lines, wich mainly is an effect of the more lit up world with perfect settings and water 3.
What happens is that the light edges at several miles comes out very sharp, and when seen at a diagonal angle they start 'rolling' or 'flickering' as the simulation progresses.


My online settings with everything maxed exept landscapedetail on 'high' and water on '0':
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickerin...-online-settings.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickering%20shorelines/my-online-settings.jpg)

My offline settings with all maxed out with perfect settings and water '3':
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickerin...offline-settings.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/flickering%20shorelines/my-offline-settings.jpg)

OAC_Kosh
10-01-2006, 10:26 AM
Try Locking the LOD bias in your video drivers. That will stop the game from making the textures too sharp far away. If not, then try to find a way of adjusting the MIP filtering in your video card until it results in nice (realistic to the eye) soft land textures.

F19_Ob
10-01-2006, 12:57 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OAC_Kosh:
Try Locking the LOD bias in your video drivers. QUOTE]

Where do I find these? in the video cardsettings panel?

Changing MIP filtering doesnt improve anything for me.
I'm sure that it's the bright ground with perfect setting that casues it because the flickering dissappears with lower lighting.
When the shorelines gets so bright they get washed out and stand out more against the darker water.

At horizon distance a pixel can't get thinner than a pixel, and if it is in so stark contrast with the water it will be seen.

If one could set down to 'high' landscapedetail intead of 'perfect' and still have water 3 the problem would be solved.

Look at the light-difference between the two screenshots I posted last.

DeadMorose_rus
10-04-2006, 12:05 AM
LOD bias settings you can tune using RivaTuner.

F19_Ob
10-04-2006, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by DeadMorose_rus:
LOD bias settings you can tune using RivaTuner.

Thanks m8 I found it.
It made no change to the flickering of shorelines at the horizon, although there was bad changes to water.
No setting however changed the sharp light or jaggedness of the shorelines.

Since the shorelines at horizon doesn't flicker at lower landscapesettings it must be the brightness of the higher settings that causes it.
With the lower settings shorelines and landscape are more blended but they get dramatically sharpened with perfect settings.

At 1-10 km distance the shorelines are good and sharp but with good weather the shorelines get equally sharp close to the horizon.
In the real world at that distance there usually aren't any sharp edges and the air blends colors aswell.

DeadMorose_rus
10-05-2006, 12:21 AM
Started the investigation =) yesterday.
1280*960, no AF optimizations, AF16x, AA16x, transparentAA-multi, LoD=0 - almost no flickerin' horizon and shores, but... 16-23 FPS =(
Same settings, but AF8x and started to lower the AA. Until it's AA 6xS the horizon and shores are almost ok, but at 6xS here comes the flicker =)
Config: Athlon X2 64 3800@2.6GHz, 2GB DDR400@260MHz, GF7900GT@555\1680.
The only way out i can see - wait until GF8800 and Core2Duo Extreme will cost 100$ each =)

P.s. Sorry for my terrible English, it's not my native language and I had no practice for a long time =(

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-13-2006, 10:29 PM
Be sure your texture quality is set to High Quality. This is an issue with nvidia cards known commonly as shimmering. If you set to High Quality it should fix your issues.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/vmfhavok/theBlackSheep.jpg

F19_Ob
10-16-2006, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Be sure your texture quality is set to High Quality. This is an issue with nvidia cards known commonly as shimmering. If you set to High Quality it should fix your issues.


Thanks m8, but it makes no difference to the air-perspective nor flickering. The features in the distance close to the horizons are still sharp.
Dark water meets light shoreline.
On lower settings these two colors are closer in tone and the contrast less wich means the edge blends in better.
The edges are jagged and the jaggedness flickers with movement when the contrast is great, as in perfect mode.

So a landscape with 10 or so rivers will really make a flickering/rolling spectacle at horizon-distance when enabling perfect mode.
As said before at closer distance, 10km or so it looks good and smooth.

Thanks for trying to help. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/ob_ver2.jpg

vocatx
10-16-2006, 09:25 AM
I'm running an ATI X800 card on perfect settings, water 1, AA and AF maxed. I get the shimmering as well.

I'm not expert, but I personally believe it is caused by the objects the card is trying to render (shoreline) being smaller at a distance than one pixel on the monitor. Because your point of view is moving and the card is trying to render these textures, this causes the shimmering.

Does this make any sense?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

4H_V-man
The 2nd Horseman

F19_Ob
10-17-2006, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by vocatx:
I'm running an ATI X800 card on perfect settings, water 1, AA and AF maxed. I get the shimmering as well.

I'm not expert, but I personally believe it is caused by the objects the card is trying to render (shoreline) being smaller at a distance than one pixel on the monitor. Because your point of view is moving and the card is trying to render these textures, this causes the shimmering.

Does this make any sense?

well I'm not an expert either, but a pixel can't get smaller than a pixel, and a diagonal line on screen will flicker with movement, but as I said before, the problem is less on lower settings because the color-tone of the sea or river is close to the color-tone of the shorelines, thus the jagged diagonal edges wont flicker as badly as when the contrast betwen ground and water is sharp, as with perfect settings.

Perhaps the sharp lighting of the ground with perfect mode is a must to get a good effect from the waves and/or transparency of the water?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/ob_ver2.jpg