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View Full Version : How to defend against 12-16 fw 190:s??



XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 12:33 AM
Am in the russian fighter campaign and got my LA-7 super fighting machine but I am getting smoked into oblivion. Are supposed to support some IL 2 FB and it´s no problem distract the AI and get 7-8 FW on your tail but then it don´t give you much space to manoeveur.

Very hard to get into position to kill since I have to run full speed all the time not to get shot down and the there seems to be some really good pilots I am up against. Now exactly how to avoid me.

And my wingmen doesn´t do much better. Usually at their first headon pass they get at least 1 or 2 of my wingmen and then my wingman seems to be very busy defending themselves.

So what is acceptable losses still being able to win the campaign?

My last mission I was heading home and was hunted by 4-5 FW but I wasn´t to badly damaged and could outrun them or at least hold some distance but made the misstake that circling over an airfield that was supposed to have AA capability just to find there was no AA at all and I got killed in the first turn.

Going to debreifing I had lost all my wingman and 13 planes and the enemy lost 4 and I thought I did pretty good.

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 12:33 AM
Am in the russian fighter campaign and got my LA-7 super fighting machine but I am getting smoked into oblivion. Are supposed to support some IL 2 FB and it´s no problem distract the AI and get 7-8 FW on your tail but then it don´t give you much space to manoeveur.

Very hard to get into position to kill since I have to run full speed all the time not to get shot down and the there seems to be some really good pilots I am up against. Now exactly how to avoid me.

And my wingmen doesn´t do much better. Usually at their first headon pass they get at least 1 or 2 of my wingmen and then my wingman seems to be very busy defending themselves.

So what is acceptable losses still being able to win the campaign?

My last mission I was heading home and was hunted by 4-5 FW but I wasn´t to badly damaged and could outrun them or at least hold some distance but made the misstake that circling over an airfield that was supposed to have AA capability just to find there was no AA at all and I got killed in the first turn.

Going to debreifing I had lost all my wingman and 13 planes and the enemy lost 4 and I thought I did pretty good.

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 12:45 AM
Keep in mind that the 190 is not a very good turn fighter, especially at lower speeds. It has a bad tendancy to spin in tight turns. I think you might be able to take 190 in a turning fight with your LA-7. Now a handfull of 190's, that's a different matter. All I can say is that if you're trying to outmaneuver an opponent, high speed decreases your turning rate.

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 12:49 AM
Well I am in a CATCH 22 it seems. Go turnfighting and 4-5 get on my back me trying to catch 1-2 in front of me.

So to stay alive I need to have that speed.

And though I am the highest rank I am starting as number 5 and only got one wingman and he doesn´t do much good except hanging after me most of the time until they start firing at him.

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 12:53 AM
Yeah, that's a pickle to be sure. If you know at which point in the mission you will encounter the enemy, perhaps you could try to gain some altitude in advance and bounce them? Perhaps some boom-n-zoom? If that doesn't work, I would just avoid engaging them alltogether, or just run away!

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 12:57 AM
Well I try to engage them first to release some pressure on my wingmen. My record is having 8 against me but still my wingman got shot down more than they shot down the rest.

But consider how poorly my wingmen achieves in this mission I want mind loosing them all...

Will go back trying now...

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 12:57 AM
The Fw 190 may not be the ultimate fighter in 1 vs 1 engagements, but in 3 vs 3(or more) it's probably one of the toughest fighters in the game to beat thanks to its high speed, excellent firepower and manouverability.

However the totally incompetent LW AI effectively helps transform the 190 to something that more resmebles a fluffy little kitten than a lethal killing machine!

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XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 01:03 AM
Keep your alt higher than theirs.

Although AIs are poor maneuver pilots, they are lethal in dive boom attack. But in same alt or low, they don't know what to do and only try to turn with you. Don't go low, stay alert on another FW around. When you feel you are being attacked, break hard at all cost.

Russian campaign is harder than German's cause they got butcher bird.


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XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 01:54 AM
Sounds to me like you just got one of those impossible missions. It happens in the LW campaigns too. Sometimes you get 8vs8, sometimes you get 8 of you vs 2 of them, and occasionally its 16 of them vs 2 of you. I recommend just skipping that mission. BTW, killing 12-16 La-7's while flying an Fw-190A9 isn't much easier than mission you're having trouble with /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

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XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 02:19 AM
Well the LA 7 seems to be the best airplane in IL 2 FB really so I can imagine how hard that would be. Have yet find a better plane. But it seems hard to airbrake with them?

But this game is strange.

Was changing my strategy a bit by getting above them which really helps them killing E. The first two tries it didn´t help much though. They still killed just about all my wingmen even though I got 2-3 of them.

The third time was doing the same and just about never came into position to shoot. Either they just went straight against me and I try to avoid headons or I was going to fast and them to slow...

But I kept altitude and wasn´t to threatened and to my surprise I didn´t here any messages from my wingmen about bailing out or such. And then at a steady right one after one FW 190 goes down while me doing practically nothing. Until no FW 190:s where left!!! They didn´t even come to engage the IL 2:s much...

Just about the only times I got to use my guns was to scare away FW 190:s when they got on the tails of one of my wingmens. And even then it was just to scare them.
Could fire for like a minute with my cannons when landed so didn´t make much use of it.

End result my flight group downed 9 airplanes. Had a major downing 4 and a starsky leutenant downing 5. Lost 2 planes and one m-l and one l. That is what I call acceptable losses.

Overall lost 4 planes and downed 13!!!

Makes me wonder if there is a cheat in the campaigns making them easier after a couple of tries? But I guess it´s like chess. Every game is a new one...

ZG77_Nagual
11-09-2003, 02:22 AM
Fight in the vertical - shoot from very close, never sacrifice speed and zoom climb immediately. Choose the target that allows you to build the most speed.

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XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 02:49 AM
What is the benefit of fighting in the vertical instead of in the horisontal? I find these LA:s breaking up faster than those germans plane even though the LA 7 seems a bit better in that respect. A bit dangerous going above 600 km/h though...

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 03:02 AM
I think he meant you should try climbing and looping. The La-7 climbs much better than the Fw-190's do.

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

ZG77_Nagual
11-09-2003, 03:33 AM
Basically really big loops - and go for planes that are approaching from below and behind - that way you are moving more into the vertical and gaining speed. Also - it seems to me the la holds together much better in 1.2. Keep good separation in your climb - bring it over into a dive at about 120k. This way you keep either a speed or alt advantage at all times. If you try to slug it out against multiple opponents in a turn fight you'll lose. You don't really need to hit much more that 600-700k to do this if you time it right.




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XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 06:58 PM
Thanks. What is this 1.2 I am hearing about? A beta patch?

I have seen that vertical loop strategy in some on-line tracks. But you should use it when you are in a plane that climbs better than your opponent?

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 07:32 PM
...or better zooming.

For example, if you merge at same speed and go up, while your opponent turns in horizontal, you won half the battle.



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Fw 190 durbatulk
Fw 190 gimbatul
Fw 190 thrakatulk,
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XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 08:19 PM
Well I finally made the hole russian fighter campaign. Damn was it long. I am glad I cut it to medium length instead of the default super long. Will probably run short in my next campaigns.

But the difficulty seems to be very different. In the I 16 I had a ratio of about 4 to 1. In p 40 if I remember correctly about 2-1 which is understandable considering how these planes sucks.

And now in the LA 7 my squadron lost 9 planes total and downed 48!! I thought it would going to be more and more difficult when I got these "impossible" mission in march but after that it was a piece of cake...

But I didn´t make podpolkovnik only major /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif 110+ kills wasn´t enough /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif