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leitmotiv
07-17-2007, 04:57 PM
If any of you are as intrigued by the story of Operation Elbe on "Dogfights" last Friday as I am, you will want to ferret out this book:

THE LAST FLIGHT OF THE LUFTWAFFE: THE FATE OF SCHULUNGSLEHRGANG ELBE, 7 APRIL 1945. Adrian Wehr.

It is the only book in English about the operation. I bought a copy from Amazon U.S.A. There may be copies available from Abe:

http://www.abebooks.com/

leitmotiv
07-17-2007, 04:57 PM
If any of you are as intrigued by the story of Operation Elbe on "Dogfights" last Friday as I am, you will want to ferret out this book:

THE LAST FLIGHT OF THE LUFTWAFFE: THE FATE OF SCHULUNGSLEHRGANG ELBE, 7 APRIL 1945. Adrian Wehr.

It is the only book in English about the operation. I bought a copy from Amazon U.S.A. There may be copies available from Abe:

http://www.abebooks.com/

waffen-79
07-18-2007, 11:47 AM
Was OP Elbe during '43? or '45?

I've heard of a suicide mission in early '45 that involved everything the LW had including ME-262's

the task was ramming the bombers while listening military music

but of course, I heard it on the History Channel...

Heliopause
07-18-2007, 11:56 AM
Couple of months ago there was a program about this involving members who survived the period. It was shown on a german channel I can't receive.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

leitmotiv
07-18-2007, 11:52 PM
This was in April 1945. For the most part, it was a failure. About 100 specially stripped 109s were sent up. All armor removed. All guns removed except for one 13mm and about 60 rounds. The plan was Hajo Hermann's. The object was for the 109s to slam into weak points in U.S. heavies and bring them down. Hermann's theory was that an onslaught of 100 109s wiping out an entire Division would cause a morale collapse in the 8th AF buying a month's reprieve in bombing, and giving the Luftwaffe a chance to build up a presentable force of 262s to throw at the bombers. Operation Elbe launched with martial music and a female controller guiding the nimble, stripped 109s to the bombers. It was not a success, but the documentary showed several cases where pilots pulled off extraordinary strikes. The most amazing was one in which a 109 flew through a B-24 formation looking for an opportunity, none of the 24s could shoot at it because it was in formation with the bombers. The 109 pilot pulled up next to the lead bomber, pulled inverted, sawed the 24 right behind the pilots' station, 109 pilot ditched, the 109 flipped and smashed into the lead's wingman, and, thus, the 109 pilot (who survived unscathed) brought down two 24s, including the lead bomber, and his second-in-command---a Monte Carlo strike.

woofiedog
07-19-2007, 01:29 AM
An interview with Hajo Hermann [translated]...

Link: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=htt...n%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.national-zeitung.de/Artikel_03/NZ10_5.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=7&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DHajo%2BHermann%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG)

On April 7th, 1945, elements of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, Air Divisions of
the 8th Air Force bomber command with their escorts flew across the European continent to bomb their assigned targets in Germany, as the formation of Boeing B-17s and Consolidated B-24's were heading towards their targets, allied radio listening posts were picking up the instructions that were being issue to
the German fighters,that were taking off to intercept the attacking force.

What they heard was the voice of a German woman, telling the German
fighter pilots to engage and destroy the much hated "Viermot" (four-engine bombers), that had brought death and destruction to the Fatherland, and to avenge the death of their love ones, by ramming into the incoming bombers !!!

What the allies were listening to, were the instructions that were being
given to about 120 BF-109G's and K's of "Schulungslehrgang Elbe"(training Course Elbe), a volunteer unit formed from inexperience volunteer fighter pilots, under the command of Oberst. Hajo Herrman (An ex-bomber pilot, who later flew as a night fighter pilot, the creator of the "Wilde Sau" method of night fighting and current commander of 9 Fliegerdivision, with 9 allied bombers to
his credit, he would later be captured by the Soviets and held Prisioner
of war, for about ten years).


Link: http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/floresRGC.htm (http://www.neta.com/%7E1stbooks/floresRGC.htm)

KNOWN SUCCESFULL SCHULUNGESLEHRGANG ELBE PILOTS

Rank and Name Former Unit e/a Unit Status

Uffz. Heinrich Rosner. (ex-III/JG.102). 2 B-24 389thBG. Survive.
Obfw. Werner Linder. (ex-EJG.1). 1 B-17 388th BG KIA
Fhr.Eberhard Prock 1 B-17 452nd BG KIA Shot-while descending in his
parachute.
Fw.Reinhold Hedwig 1 B-17 452nd BG. KIA
Shot-down by 339FG P-51's.
Uffz.Werner Zell 1 B-17 452nd BG WIA Shot-down by P-51's.
Ogfr.Horst Siedel 1 B-17 452nd BG KIA
Lt. Hans Nagel (ex-IV/JG.102) 1 B-17 490th BG KIA Shot it down by
conventional armament,
damaged a second B-17 by ramming .
Uffz. Klaus Haus 1 B-17 WIA
Unknown BF-109 pilot 1 B-17 100th BG KIA
Unknown BF-109 pilot 1 B-17 490th BG KIA

KNOWN AMERICAN BOMBER LOSSES BY RAMMING.

3RD AIR DIVISION
388TH BG 2 Ramming attack
452nd BG 1 Ramming attack + 3 to fighter attack.
100th BG 1 Ramming attack + 1 Rammed damaged RTB.
385th BG 1 Ramming attack
490th BG 1 Ramming attack + 1 landed in Continent
487th BG 1 Ramming attack damaged landed in Belguim.

2ND AIR DIVISION
389th BG 1 Ramming attack

Total Bomber Losses:
2AD: 3 B-24's
3AD: 14 B-17's

Minus one to Flak, one to accidental bombing and 3 to Me-262 jet
fighters, its is calculated that
13 bombers were destroyed by Elbe Pilots.

leitmotiv
07-19-2007, 04:27 AM
Great stuff, as usual, WD!