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XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 06:40 PM
Dear Oleg,
I guess that a lot more people is thinking the same than me. I have realized that in the lastest patch the performances of all german planes have been changed drastically. Now, it is sad to confirm how the La5-FN is now faster than the Fw190-D9 at sea level!!!! (it just a question of waiting a couple of minutes and see what happens).

It is not a question of reviewing each controversial point (basically all the german climbing rates figures are drastically reduced in realtionship to their realistic figures), but I would like to know the reason for these uncomprehensible modifications. Is it beacuse most of people enjoy flying russian UFO's? The more I look for the explanation the less I can find it.

Oleg, belive me, I love IL2 game. I always thought that you love hard core Sims too. In the origin, the objetive of IL2 was not to smash as much enemy planes as possible. The idea was to enjoy by flying the more realistic models of WW2 planes that anybody have flown after 1945.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Comments are welcomed.

J.Castellanos

Aerospace Engineer

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 06:40 PM
Dear Oleg,
I guess that a lot more people is thinking the same than me. I have realized that in the lastest patch the performances of all german planes have been changed drastically. Now, it is sad to confirm how the La5-FN is now faster than the Fw190-D9 at sea level!!!! (it just a question of waiting a couple of minutes and see what happens).

It is not a question of reviewing each controversial point (basically all the german climbing rates figures are drastically reduced in realtionship to their realistic figures), but I would like to know the reason for these uncomprehensible modifications. Is it beacuse most of people enjoy flying russian UFO's? The more I look for the explanation the less I can find it.

Oleg, belive me, I love IL2 game. I always thought that you love hard core Sims too. In the origin, the objetive of IL2 was not to smash as much enemy planes as possible. The idea was to enjoy by flying the more realistic models of WW2 planes that anybody have flown after 1945.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Comments are welcomed.

J.Castellanos

Aerospace Engineer

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 09:37 PM
Most of the reasons for flight performance errors are probably more due to the fact that the game uses a real physics engine where its most likely very difficult to get perfect results right off the bat. Even after numerous fixes and tweaks in an attempt to make everything right...you are going to have an error. Full physics engines are still better than the old table based systems however.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 10:32 PM
Funny though how luftwaffe AC get the majority of the nasty performance hit bugs eg: inability to reach top speed, climbrate and turn rate etc where as VVS seem to overperform in just about all areas, if these where shared out equaly i think people would not be as suspicious oh well hopefuly the next patch will improve things...

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 12:26 AM
I think that it is exactly part of the problem. All the performance bugs seem to be in the german planes side. I can not see the reason to change each FM very time a new patch is released once the flight envelopment is in accordance with the aircraft technical specifications (and there are tonns of historical reports to assess this end!!!)

In addtion to this, I have checked that the P47 is slower than the La5FN (again!!!) during divings. Are the La's including a new secret type of supercritic airfoils? or is the P47 using speed brackets of stuka? I know the official explanation... "The FM are different if the plane is IA or it is not but I am start thinking that it depends on being VSV aircrafts or not.

Fingers crossed for the flyable P51 and Ta152...

Cheers

Julian

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 01:52 AM
JACN_12 wrote:
-Please correct me if I am wrong.


You is wrong /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 02:23 AM
johno__UK wrote:
- Funny though how luftwaffe AC get the majority of
- the nasty performance hit bugs eg: inability to
- reach top speed, climbrate and turn rate etc where
- as VVS seem to overperform in just about all areas,
- if these where shared out equaly i think people
- would not be as suspicious oh well hopefuly the next
- patch will improve things...

Shhhh, don't speak the truth around here, you may get lynched. lol /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:46 AM
Well...I'd like to add my $.02 here as well...lynch away. I've done some extensive research into most of the planes that we can fly in FB, and there is a definite problem. The FW-190A-4 had a service ceiling of 37,400 ft. I don't know how many of you have tried to fly it up there, but, it won't go. The D-9 was 32,810 ft. Good luck. Max level speeds are definitely off, with the two I just mentioned being 408 mph/653 km/h and 440 mph/704 km/h respectively. The LA-5 ceiling was 36,090 ft, with a max level speed of 403 mph/648 kmh, the LA-7 would go to 34,448 ft, and 407 mph/655km/h. The MiG-3 would climb to 39,370 ft, and max level flight was 298 mph/480 kmh. And P-39s just plain sucked in air to air combat, they were relegated to the ground support/attack role. The Q had 1,200 hp V-1710-85 Allison, yet still weighed a hefty 5,600 lbs empty (4.67 lb/hp). The Dora had a 7,720 lb empty weight, but was powered by 2,240 hp (on boost)(3.45 lb/hp)
BF-109K-4 = 729 km/h, 6,000 lb empty
FW-190D-9 = 704 km/h, 7,720 lb empty
P-51D = 703 km/h, 6,635 lb empty
LA-7 = 655 km/h, 5,842 lb empty
FW-190A-4 = 653 km/h, 7,055 lb empty
LA-5FN = 648 km/h, 6,149 lb empty
P-47D-30 = 640 km/h, 10,600lb empty
P-39Q = 612 km/h, 5,600 lb empty
P-38J = 579 km/h, 14,000lb empty
P-40B = 566 km/h, 5,590 lb empty
P-40N = 552 km/h, 6,000 lb empty
MiG-3 = 480 km/h, 5,721 lb empty

That's about all I have the patience to transcribe tonight. But, looking at historical accounts and comparative data, somethings definitely amiss.

*Listed max level speed comparatively, in decending order. Threw in empty weights for "craps and giggles"*

Message Edited on 10/06/0312:39PM by BaronVonSnoopy

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 05:55 AM
What do all those numbers with units of speed mean? What they represent is not labeled. Any ideas? Thanks.

I don't think Oleg knew he would ever expand IL~2 beyond the single treetop IL2 ground attack flight model. This is the result. Expect a total different situation for Oleg's BoB sim, high altitude by definition. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The Eastern Front sky was mostly empty above 7km altitude. Oleg has as much need to model hi altitude FM over Eastern Front as he does to model orbital FM of spacecraft.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:10 AM
"La5-FN is now faster than the Fw190-D9 at sea level"
Yeah that a BIG game bug..Fw D9 was faster then the metalklump (La5)