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funkster319
07-01-2009, 08:37 AM
I have a CH FS / CH Throttle and Pedals and I currently have Elevator / Rudder trim set up on the Sticks lower hat. However it doesn't seem to work very well and I am constantly over shooting trim and having to adjust - not good in combat. i.e I'll hold it down not get much , hold it down again and it adds tons !! So I have to then adjust again and again till right.

Is there any better way to set up trim on CH sticks so that better sensitivity . control?

Any suggestions

idonno
07-01-2009, 09:48 AM
Welcome to Oleg's wonderful trim system. What you describe is the way it works for everybody.

The best way to control trim in this sim is with wheels, but I guess you don't have any on that throttle.

Ba5tard5word
07-01-2009, 09:54 AM
I just use ctrl and the up and down arrows.

Jaws2002
07-01-2009, 10:41 AM
This is the stupid way the trim is implemented in the game. If you asign the trim on a slider (in the "Hotas" area of the comtrols), it reacts instqantly to the imput. If you assign trim on buttons it has that stupid artificial dellay. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif CH throttle doesn't have analog dials to use for trim, so you have to use buttons. (they want you to buy the throttle quadrant for that) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

That's why I got the X45 and use the throttle with my CH fighter stick and CH pedals.

horseback
07-01-2009, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
This is the stupid way the trim is implemented in the game. If you asign the trim on a slider (in the "Hotas" area of the comtrols), it reacts instqantly to the imput. If you assign trim on buttons it has that stupid artificial dellay. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif CH throttle doesn't have analog dials to use for trim, so you have to use buttons. (they want you to buy the throttle quadrant for that) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

That's why I got the X45 and use the throttle with my CH fighter stick and CH pedals. Everyone has this problem with trim, even the folks who use the 'trim on a slider' method.

The system does not react to trim inputs immediately, because then some people with extra rotary axes would otherwise be able to input a huge change in trim while turning or going from dive to climb or vice versa (or at least that's the official reason as I recall it).

The CH Throttle quadrant iss not a particularly uselful trim device for me because the software doesn't allow for you to 'center' your levers like you can every other axis in the CH genepool. It is great for prop pitch, throttle, flaps and 12 extra buttons though.

I use a similar setup to the one described in the original post (rudder and elevator trim on the stick hat), and it generally works pretty well. I DO NOT hold the button down; I tap it a few times until I gradually get the effect I want.

I haven't bothered with all the planes, but NO PLANE TRIMS LIKE ANY OTHER. You have to learn each plane's quirks and tricks over the course of a few hours' flying time. It takes patience and muscle memory.

Some aircraft are trim hogs and demand constant refinement like the P-51 and the P-39 (and you better assign buttons for aileron trim on these birds too), and some only need minor adjustments throughout their speed range, like the La-5/7, the 109 and FW 190 series, where the only times you're apt to be 'fighting your stick' is when you've accelerated to a high speed in a hurry without adding incremental bits of trim.

In any case, I find that if I stay with one aircraft type for an extended period, I'm able to automatically add the required amounts of trim to keep the 'ball' centered (most of the time) through almost any series of aerobatics while chasing an ai opponent around.

Remember, the ai are always perfectly trimmed, so if you can stay with an Ace or Veteran's evasive maneuvers and close the gap in an aircraft of similar performance, you're getting somewhere (especially if you can do it before you run out of ammo, at which point they try to stay in your crosshairs just to taunt you).

Use your FMB and make practice flights through Leningrad or Berlin, flying under bridges and zipping along the boulevards without adding enemy aircraft to shoot down or AAA to shoot you down. This is a fun way to build your skills and develop a 'feel' for your plane.

My point is that you have to learn your aircraft before you say that the trim sux. If one of your favorites is one of the trim hogs, start with one that needs trim but is a bit easier to learn, like the P-40, and start with that.

cheers

horseback

PS-I suspect that the instruments on some a/c are slower to respond than others (Russian a/c), and that some overreact, and then come back slowly to center. The needle and ball are only indicators; the real test of whether you've trimmed correctly for your steady speed is if you are fighting your stick, pushing or pulling at it or adding a bit of rudder to keep flying straight and level.

funkster319
07-01-2009, 01:55 PM
Cheers Guys - It makes me feel a little better knowing it isnt just me and that I'm not just being a noob or something.

Totally agree with Horseback and I have got to grips with a few AC - it's just frustrating and I wanted to make sure i wasn't just being obtuse.

Cheers all

Tully__
07-02-2009, 03:53 AM
A more complete description of the vagaries of trim: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...291047842#2291047842 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=3481017842&r=2291047842#2291047842)

BillSwagger
07-02-2009, 10:28 AM
I dont have any trouble trimming.

I have my mouse wheel mapped to keys.

Wheel up = Numpad 8
Wheel Down = Numpad 2

In game those keys are mapped to rudder left and rudder right.


I then have a key on my joystick mapped as a shift function.
so
Trim elevators positive = Shift + Numpad 8
Trim elevators negative = Shift + Numpad 2

TO TRIM I JUST HOLD THE BUTTON AND ROLL MY MOUSE WHEEL.
It calculates separate button presses so you get a quick and accurate trim.

If you can find a way to work that into your CH configuration, then it is much better than relying on a button press for trim.

DuckyFluff
07-02-2009, 12:31 PM
Why go to all the bother? Just map elevator trim to the throttle wheel on your CH Fighterstick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

BTW anyone that says you need minimal trim on 109s obviouly doesn't fly them much, I trim 109/190 ALL THE TIME.

TBH the trim control is a PAIN in the B**t

horseback
07-02-2009, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by DuckyFluff:
Why go to all the bother? Just map elevator trim to the throttle wheel on your CH Fighterstick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

BTW anyone that says you need minimal trim on 109s obviouly doesn't fly them much, I trim 109/190 ALL THE TIME.

TBH the trim control is a PAIN in the B**t I've been flying the 1C:Maddox Bf-109 since around March of 2002; its trim has always been predictable & easily kept up with. Compared to the Mustang or the P-39, it's a walk in the park, and requires far less attention than almost any other stock plane in the game.

As for using the throttle wheel on te base of my Combatstick, it's just in the wrong place. I have my left hand on my Pro Throttle most of the time, manipulating my throttle, Prop pitch, mixture, supercharger, WEP and FOV, and the Throttle quadrant is about 5 inches beyond it when I'm going to use the prop pitch axis for optimum acceleration, or want to drop tanks, or give my standard commands to my wingmen. Moving my left hand to the base of my stick has become unnatural.

There's no need to program a bunch of button clicks to get trim on a given set of buttons on my stick. I assigned trim to the 4 cardinal points on my unused POV hat on my stick: nose down, right rudder, nose up, and left rudder trim are 'stock' button assignments for all my 'pilots'.

I have a set of German,Russian, and US/RAF pilots, with specific button assignments for each; after a while, you know which button/axis does what in a given a/c flown by a given 'pilot'. This comes in handy when flying an offline campaign when you know what aircraft you'll be flying.

I generally use scripting only for things like resetting my TIR centering or radio commands.

If I need aileron trim, I assign a couple buttons on the upper thumb hatswitch on the Pro Throttle; on a German pilot controls menu, I'd have the reflector shade and Record Track commands there.

cheers

horseback

DuckyFluff
07-02-2009, 02:30 PM
I have flown the 109 since day 1. I do find it predictable as you say, but I don't find there is that much of a difference in the (elevator) trimming regime in any othe aircraft with trimmable elevators(ailerons are a different kettle of fish).

As for using the throttle wheel on the FS its pretty simple once you have everything else stabilised to quickly dial in the neccesary trim. It also hhas the advantage that you can SEE the exact amount of trim you have dialled in http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif