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View Full Version : United States Fed. Govt. Breaks down



roybaty
02-15-2008, 04:32 PM
Lets say we have a full fledged depression, chaos reigns, states separate in into geo-social-economic confederations. What would they be?

Discuss...

http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

ARCHIE_CALVERT
02-15-2008, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by roybaty:
Lets say we have a full fledged depression, chaos reigns, states separate in into geo-social-economic confederations. What would they be?

Discuss...

http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

Welcome to life in the United Kingdom... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Urufu_Shinjiro
02-15-2008, 04:43 PM
I don't know about you but I'd get out of the city and hole up in an abandoned farmhouse real quick.....

roybaty
02-15-2008, 07:35 PM
I know someone with a few hundred guns, I'd probably go to his home and ask to borrow a few...hmmmm maybe that wouldn't be a good idea on second thought http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hail Rome!!

han freak solo
02-15-2008, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by roybaty:
Lets say we have a full fledged depression, chaos reigns, states separate in into geo-social-economic confederations. What would they be?

Discuss...


I might move to Mexico and look for a job. Kidnapping and ransom collecting sounds pretty exciting. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

ElAurens
02-15-2008, 10:49 PM
Never happen.

han freak solo
02-15-2008, 11:11 PM
C'mon! If we work as a team we could get some cash for our efforts! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'll go by the name of Tuco. You can be Blondie. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Messaschnitzel
02-15-2008, 11:52 PM
A good comparison to look at was the fall of the Soviet Union. Lots of unemployment, inflation through the roof, and still there was no serious Mad Max kind of trouble to speak of.

The stuff that causes the chaotic revolution kind of trouble is when there is a definite social dividing line between those who stand hungry and ragged in the streets and the people who ride by in gold festooned carriages or cars, splashing mud over the common people who outnumber them.

Three examples that lead up to this point were the French revolution, the Russian Revolution, and the Romanian Revolution that resulted in the fall of Ceau?escu. After a few years, the dust settles and the new replaces the old. Sometimes the new is the same as the old where nothing has really changed. Darfur is another example of a "chaotic society". I think that even there, the trouble wouldn't be so bad if the fire wasn't being stoked from outside sources.

I was having a political conversation with a co-worker that crossed over from the DDR in 1960.
He stated that the average American had too much to lose to desire a revolution, or long term chaotic anarchy. They would have to be starving, with nothing left to hope for before they would fall apart and let the fabric of society unravel.

I think a lot of people have this fantasy of defending their home against hordes of brigands like they are at the Alamo. That may very well happen, given the right ingredients.

Who knows, what might happen is all of the world's fresh water and subsequent food supply will vanish and we end up in rickety sailboats trying to sink somebody else's chingadera boats on a big blue marble® called Waterworld® http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The thought of Dennis Hopper trying his luck against me is unsettling. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Pirschjaeger
02-16-2008, 02:18 AM
When these states of independence realize that that they are still very much alone in the world series, they'll get back together and be called the Reunited States of America and Peaches&Cream will spin a new national anthem.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

MEGILE
02-16-2008, 02:30 AM
Out of work Cheerleaders can come to the UK.

Pirschjaeger
02-16-2008, 02:35 AM
I heard cheerleaders in the UK were out of work. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

MrBlueSky1960
02-16-2008, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I heard cheerleaders in the UK were out of work. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

You heard wrong Pirschjaeger... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Cheerleaders are an American breed and aren't recognised over here in blighty... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Irish_Rogues
02-16-2008, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by MrBlueSky1960:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I heard cheerleaders in the UK were out of work. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

You heard wrong Pirschjaeger... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Cheerleaders are an American breed and aren't recognised over here in blighty... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hurray for us then! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Cajun76
02-16-2008, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by roybaty:
Lets say we have a full fledged depression, chaos reigns, states separate in into geo-social-economic confederations. What would they be?

Discuss...

http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

Country folks can survive..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Messaschnitzel
02-16-2008, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Cajun76:

Country folks can survive..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Just ask Bocephus. He can tell you the whole story! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SlowBurn68
02-16-2008, 06:49 PM
I can't wait till it happens. Survival of the fittest.

roybaty
02-16-2008, 07:19 PM
Well the thing is we have nukes so it makes me wonder if other countries would feel the need to secure them.

Airmail109
02-16-2008, 09:35 PM
dooooooooooooooooomed dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed

Airmail109
02-16-2008, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by SlowBurn68:
I can't wait till it happens. Survival of the fittest.

The firearm made survival of the fittest obsolete. It would be carnage for several months to a year, if things ever went that way. Which I doubt, as you may have guessed from my last post.

It would be survival of the most intelligent, most willingly able to point a gun at someone, the amoral and toughest mentally.

The skinny short guys would most likely survive. They can go for longer without food, and they're not bullet magnets. Unluckily in such a scenario I'm 6 foot so I hope it never happens.

Airmail109
02-16-2008, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by roybaty:
Well the thing is we have nukes so it makes me wonder if other countries would feel the need to secure them.

I'm guessing the federal government would point them at any states that tried to break away.

han freak solo
02-17-2008, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
The skinny short guys would most likely survive.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

If they act like roaches, otherwise the aggressive will survive. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Interestingly, I still know some people that have the "millenia" mentality. That our society will suddenly and tragically fall apart, leaving the "few" having to protect themselves from the hordes. Of course, the "few" surround themselves with more arms than they can carry, and more ammo than they could possibly shoot before being overwhelmed if such an event ever happened in that way.

http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/shaun_dead/07.jpg

roybaty
02-17-2008, 09:07 AM
Ahhh the zombie apocalypse.

mortoma
02-17-2008, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by Irish_Rogues:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrBlueSky1960:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I heard cheerleaders in the UK were out of work. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

You heard wrong Pirschjaeger... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Cheerleaders are an American breed and aren't recognised over here in blighty... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hurray for us then! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, there are a few male college cheerleaders if you don't like pretty girls over there.

SlowBurn68
02-17-2008, 10:39 AM
LOL...

Airmail109
02-17-2008, 07:39 PM
Ooooohhhhh

You better not shout
To all whom you see.
Don't write about
The Conspiracy:
Paranoia's coming to town.

You couldn't have missed --
Checked everywhere twice,
Still couldn't find
The bugging device.
Paranoia's coming to town.

You know that they are peeping,
Which keeps you wide awake.
Pretty soon you can't tell bad from good,
Or the real threat from the fake.

Sooooooo

You'd better not scout
To discover their key.
Get too far out,
It's insanity.
Paranoia's coming to town.
Paranoia's coming to town.
Paranoia's comiiiiing tooooo town.

jarink
02-17-2008, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by roybaty:
Lets say we have a full fledged depression, chaos reigns, states separate in into geo-social-economic confederations. What would they be?

Discuss...


There'd be Guam and a confederation of everybody else.

R_Target
02-17-2008, 08:14 PM
Hey that looks like the queue on BoB release day.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2uy1w0h.jpg

foxyboy1964
02-17-2008, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by R_Target:
Hey that looks like the queue on BoB release day.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2uy1w0h.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


The guy with the yellow hat and the earphones isn't actually a zombie, he's just stoned.

Copperhead311th
02-18-2008, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Messaschnitzel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cajun76:

Country folks can survive..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Just ask Bocephus. He can tell you the whole story! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Speaking for the Southern states & a few out west....we're well prepared.

With the exception of major urban areas and large cities...the majority of the population from the folling states (or areas) should be ok.

Now this is given that your talking about an all out meltdown of goverment leading to absolute anarchy. IE limited supplies, compleate scocial breakdown and lack of services. (ie utillites, fire & police)

Alabama (except Birmingham & Mobile)
Georgia (ecept within 100 miles of ATL) *WARZONE*
Missippi (except near Jackson & the coast)
the Carolinas (rural)
W. V
Tennesee E(xcept around Nashvile or large cities) *WARZONE*
Northern Fla.
Ark
Alaska (Nome might be one of the few cities that could still function effectivly)
Louisiana (except within 60 miles of N.O. ya think it's bad now..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif)*WARZONE*
Rural & West Texas (Dallas/Ft.Worth and Huston would all be warzones)
Oklahoma
Rurual Colorado (Denver would be a WARZONE)
Whyoming
Utah
North & South Dakota
Idaho
Western Kanasas
Parts of rural Nebraska
Maine
Rural Wisconson (but winter would be tough)

If as far as forming Confederations....
the southern states would form a new goverment 1st most likley (but only if the current federal govement was compleatly unsalvageable.) I could see some Western & mid western states grouping togther.
and any large metroploitan areas would effectivly be uninhabitable with in a few short months. As crime would make them unlivable for the average person.

For most of the rual areas of the country might be ok.

The whole of California with exception of a few Northen counties would be lost. infact the entire west cost has the potential to be come a warzone. Same for eveything on the east coast. DC would be useless. And NYC would see a mass exodus of biblical proprtions of it's population. Like wise Chicago would also be unsafe.
Once fire and police protection breaks down......the garbage starts to come out. You could expect pandamonium and martial law at 1st. but with the national gaurd and reservs taxed for manpower for the war.....and our active duty being serverly underpaid and undermaned....I'm not sure how long law and order could prevail in heavily populated areas.

I'm basing my list on the fact that these areas of the country have a history of the population having the survival skills necassary to survive.
Growing your own food, hunting, and a blue colar population base that is already used to hard times. These are ppl that come from or either have themsleves families that have worked hard all thier lives, physical labor and know how to sustain themslevs with out a super market if need be.

Copperhead311th
02-18-2008, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roybaty:
Well the thing is we have nukes so it makes me wonder if other countries would feel the need to secure them.

I'm guessing the federal government would point them at any states that tried to break away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldn't be the 1st time. Last time it was cannons and gatlin guns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Govements exsist to serve the people who place them in power. not for the people to server them. Without the will of the people goverments cannot stand. And a little heathy Revolution from time to time is not compleatly in and of it's self a bad thing. least we forget that this country was founded on a revolution.

Pirschjaeger
02-18-2008, 05:10 AM
Lol, it just came to me that if the US split, let's say north and south, then the new US, in cooperation with Mexico, could finish building that wall.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Worf101
02-18-2008, 04:29 PM
Two Words...

"Crimson Skies"

It's all laid out in there.

Da Worfster

Copperhead311th
02-18-2008, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Worf101:
Two Words...

"Crimson Skies"

It's all laid out in there.

Da Worfster

Author?

han freak solo
02-18-2008, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Worf101:
Two Words...

"Crimson Skies"

It's all laid out in there.

Da Worfster

Author? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Microsoft.

Copperhead311th
02-19-2008, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Worf101:
Two Words...

"Crimson Skies"

It's all laid out in there.

Da Worfster

Author? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Microsoft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh THAT Crimson Skies. thought he was refering to a book.
i never bought that game.

Actually i would expect something more like Red Dawn......only not so "Disney".

ultraHun
02-19-2008, 12:15 PM
Then we would send over German peace-keeping troops. To win over hearts-and-minds they would provide German beer to everybody and a Revell Germany Me-262A-1 model-kit to AKA_TAGERT.

EDIT: major spelling correction.

roybaty
02-20-2008, 06:11 AM
Oh man I guess there was a game built on this premise. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-992619987813574095

Worf101
02-21-2008, 09:58 AM
In Crimson Skies the Great Depression along with other social stresses caused the U.S. to break up into regional nation States. Each of these had their own "private" or public air forces or air militias. These air militia fought each other and "air pirates" in order to maintain commerce which was carried out by Zepplin since road travel between the nation states was either too dangerous or outright illegal.

Good stuff of a story behind an arcade like flightsim.

Da Worfster

Urufu_Shinjiro
02-21-2008, 02:33 PM
Anyone been watching Jericho? You can see the first season here: http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jericho/ or it's available on torrent. It's a great show with good writing and good acting. I think they have the scenerio pretty well down. For those that don't know the premise is a small kansas town witnesses a nuclear explosion over denver and slowly learn that all the major cities have been hit. The rest of the show focuses on the challenges they have in surviving, there's also a few twists involving a newer resident and what he knows about what really happened. The first season finally ends with the town of Jericho defending themselves against a neighboring town intent on declaring war with them for their resources. Awsome show and very realistic I think.

Messaschnitzel
02-21-2008, 03:49 PM
What I liked about "The Postman" was the way the "Holnist" army was organized in general along 1860's era non mechanized lines. I know that if enough people with the right know-how were to survive, some of what we have today would be available more or less as it is now.

For example, if fuel supplies that we have now were difficult to obtain or manufacture, then steam power would be a logical alternative. Entire machine shops were powered in the 19th and into the first quarter of the 20th century by a system of shafts and pulleys driven by a single steam engine. If The rails throughout the U.S. were left intact, there would be steam locomotives back in business, not to mention steamships being built or converted as well.

Depending on what sort of trouble happened, I think that we would at least be at an early 20th century level.

http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Labor/L_Overview/P.41.49.2.3_Assembly-Ardmore_PA.gif

http://www.oldengine.org/members/blkstone/image3-005.jpg

http://www.threshermen.org/Images/Image110.jpg