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View Full Version : Will Gehn appear in Myst V?



thewebb
04-24-2005, 12:33 AM

thewebb
04-24-2005, 12:33 AM
in the past there has been a fair bit of talk about this. i for one would love to see him return and have since i finished riven. it has been said that myst V will combine stories of the previous games which made me thought we would see ghen but on the other hand in video interview with rand (here) (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/mystvendo***es/media.html) he mentions yeesha and this new guy as main characters but not gehn. then again perhaps that's just because he's going to be a surprise. what do you think?

Alahmnat
04-24-2005, 11:51 PM
There really isn't anything to gain from bringing Gehn back, and it would kill any sense of finality that Riven had. The brothers were given a second chance in Revelation because Atrus, being the sucker that he is, felt that they might have changed (well, he was right about one of them anyway...). The brothers are also characters who, prior to Revelation, had been very loosely-defined and one-dimensional characters. Gehn, on the other hand, has been a prominent character in one and a half novels and had an entire game all to himself. He's a very fleshed-out character who has been given well more than his fair share of chances to change. Bringing him back would really do nothing to create an involving plot, since all you'd be doing is stopping someone you already know is bad from doing what they're trying to do. There's nothing interesting in such a plot, IMHO. There's no tough decision or moral dilemma to face in bringing him back... he's an antagonist through and through.

Now, Yeesha and this new guy they're bringing in, on the other hand, are characters who we still don't know a whole lot about. Even after appearing in 3 games, Yeesha is still someone who gives a lot of people pause (largely because of what she does and says in Uru), though there's also a bunch of people who like her and think she's doing the right thing. It'll be interesting how they play off of what we already know of Yeesha - especially through Uru - and play her against the other major character (I'm being vague since this is the non-spoilers forum), and see what kinds of outcomes can result from your choices.

I just really don't think there's anything to be gained from bringing Gehn back, and honestly, this whole "ghosts of Atrus' past" plot is starting to wear a little thin after four straight games http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. It's good to see Cyan bringing in a new character who is apparently unconnected with Atrus and friends and making him a big player in the story. I just wish they hadn't waited so long to do it, being the last game in the series. Ah well.

thewebb
04-27-2005, 01:03 AM
after a bit of consideration i have to say i agree with you - to an extent. it is good to have characters you're not sure you can trust in the game. but that has been done in every myst game so far. it would not nesesarily be a bad thing to have a character you know is bad. that's not to say you can't have characters that you're not sure of aswell - like this new guy (i've forgoten his name) probably will be.

the other thing is that the end of riven, while ending on something of a conclusion (as all the myst games have except i guess myst), it was left so open for a continuation. being trapped in the book doesn't seem like a final ending for ghen and i would like the ghen saga to have more closure.

having said all this sadly i have to concede he probably won't re-appear and will be doomed to be trapped in the book for the rest of his life. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Mowog
04-27-2005, 10:38 AM
At least you have the consolation that if the trap book that captured Gehn is anything like the books that snared Sirrus and Achenar, he is now the sole inhabitant of a luscious Age somewhere, and monarch of his domain... just without any subjects to enslave! Atrus's trap books weren't really traps so much as one-way tickets to -um- "interesting" places.

thewebb
04-27-2005, 11:05 PM
yeah. the whole idea that trap books are actually ages is an interesting one. while cyan etc claim it was always the case i'm not sure they had that in mind when they first made myst (and probably riven).

with regards to that being a consolation i'm afraid that doesn't really work for me. i don't really feel sorry for gehn or want him to be happy i just want to play a game involving him again. after all, riven is my favourite of the series (and i think is more people's favourite than any of the other games)

mszv
04-28-2005, 11:58 AM
From what I've read on various boards, Riven tends to be quite popular among avid Myst series game fans. I think it's less popular among less avid fans, including the majority of people who bought Myst.

I'm not a big fan of Riven but I'm glad I played it.

Alahmnat
04-28-2005, 12:35 PM
Really, you're not supposed to feel sorry for Gehn once he's trapped... he did enough to be tried about five times over at the ICC http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. And while I agree that Riven is widely considered to be the best game in the series, I don't think it's right to demand another Riven (complete with the same cast...) with each release. There are many other types of gameplay and puzzles that can be introduced that would break a game out of the Riven mold without necessarily making it any better or worse.

SageBlackthorn
05-03-2005, 02:53 AM
Hello Everyone,
It's been a LONG time since I've posted anything, but this thread piqued my interest. I primarily play the Myst games for the same reason I read the books: I like the story, I want to know what happens next. In that regard, I can't see the use of bringing Gehn back into Myst 5, except maybe through journals or recordings to fill in necessary background. Gehn's active role in the story of Atrus's family is done, in my opinion. Bringing him back would not serve to further the story along now that it has progressed to the next generation: Yeesha's life.

The story thus far from Myst, to Riven, To Exile, to Revelations, to Uru has a decided gap between Revelations and Uru that I expect End Of Ages to fill. I'm waiting to see how Yeesha turns from that precocious little girl in Revelations into the the best writer ever that we see in Uru. I also wanna know what's up with her tribal facial tatoos!

I've read and watched all I care to of Gehn, his time is over and I think his, and the brothers, contribution to Myst 5 should be left to that of portraits and entries in journals. And even then, only when it will serve to give us a deeper understanding of the events that shaped Yeesha's young life after Revelations.

Sage

poutrew
05-04-2005, 12:22 AM
Of course, one way to bring Ghen back is to have Yeesha use her godlike powers to 'reclaim' him from his sad fate and bring him back into the fold. Heck, didn't she have the hots for that dead guy in the treasure room and bring him back to life? If she could do that then saving Ghen would be small change, but I agree, there is no point in bringing him back unless there were an incredible plot twist leading to a surprise conclusion, like, we finally learn that it was Atrus who was the bad guy, not Ghen, and that he [Atrus] had to decieve the stranger in order to get him to do his dirty work for him. Hey, I like that! Ghen fighting to keep his crazy in the head son Atrus from destroying all the ages he had written, and loosing thanks to the help of a pesky, naive 'Stranger' who Atrus used as a stooge to do his dirty work. It was Atrus who imprisoned and drove crazy his innocent young sons because they stumbled onto his plans of world domination and attempted to stop their Evil Daddy. We don't see his wife in URU because - you guessed it- he got rid of her because she was getting too close to the awful truth. Now, with Ghen, Wifey, and Sons out of the way, Atrus can begin the long process of psychological manipulation necessary to turn his youngest daughter into his Tool of Destruction http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

OK, I think it's getting late and maybe I should go to bed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mowog
05-04-2005, 09:04 AM
Well, if he DID come back, I know what I'd say.

- Ahem -

"Oh no, not a Ghen!"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

cathyk
05-04-2005, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mowog:
Well, if he DID come back, I know what I'd say.

- Ahem -

"Oh no, not a Ghen!"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Good one, Mowog!

_ Paula _
05-04-2005, 12:57 PM
I have to agree with cathyk....you gave me quite a chuckle there Mowog.

Alahmnat
05-04-2005, 09:53 PM
I say anyone who wants to see Gehn come back has to learn how to spell his name right first http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

thewebb
05-05-2005, 07:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alahmnat:
I say anyone who wants to see Gehn come back has to learn how to spell his name right first http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whoops. just fixed it

Mowog
05-05-2005, 08:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I say anyone who wants to see Gehn come back has to learn how to spell his name right first. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh, poop. Imagine my chagrin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Darcphaze
05-05-2005, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mowog:
Well, if he DID come back, I know what I'd say.

- Ahem -

"Oh no, not a Ghen!"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Good lord, and here I thought I was the only one that had that happen to me. I however, take musical bents...

and you tell me over and over and over and over a Gehn my friend, ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

Sorry had to do that.

Mowog
05-06-2005, 05:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and you tell me over and over and over and over a Gehn my friend, ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah yes, Barry McGuire. Sad to say, I'm old enough to remember that song. You may recall that he was one of the New Christy Minstrels before launching a solo career.

thewebb
05-13-2005, 10:05 PM
it seems the whole world is against me. everyone has said that they don't want ghen back and there hasn't been a single vote for yes. although obviously that means i also voted no but that's because i don't think he will appear, not that i don't want him to. isn't there anyone out there on my side?

Kad.
05-19-2005, 05:46 AM
I'm here for you buddy. I voted yes, really more saying that I 'would like' to see Gehn come back, not so much that I think he will (probably should read the poll question more carefully next time).

Basically, I loved Riven for the same reasons all the other Riven fans did. I think the actor who played Gehn was superb, which would be a wonderful thing to see after Revelation. I liked how you had to outsmart Gehn in Riven and think of a way to defeat him that really wasn't obvious from the game

Possible Revelation spoiler below:
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(again, unlike Revelation; I was really hoping the same thing would happen there, but instead was just left with a 50-50 chance of winning).

You're also right about his fate. Considering what we know about 'trap books' now, he's probably actually in an age that looks very much like K'veer (unless Atrus knows a way to mess with the linking panel's view). Perhaps he's now trapped in a cave room just like he left Atrus in BOA... that would be a neat twist of irony. Probably thinks he's been in D'ni all along, but Atrus found a way out and he's there alone.

However, I don't think I would want Gehn to be the main villan in the game either. Like others have said, that has been done. Perhaps just something like Atrus visiting his father in one of those Revelation linking chambers; attempting to make closure to their relationship, or to find out if he's dead. For that matter, why couldn't he use his crystal viewer?

Mowog
05-19-2005, 05:57 AM
Okay then, try out this idea -- at the completion of Myst V, supposing we make all the right choices and "win," all of the previous cast, including Gehn, appear from a side door and step to center stage to take their bows. There will be backslaps, handshakes, hugs, blown kisses, capped with "You've been a great stranger. Bye bye!" at which time they all file off into the wings, with a last wave or two.

So there you go. Gehn returns... for a curtain call.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

SageBlackthorn
05-24-2005, 01:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kad.:
You're also right about his fate. Considering what we know about 'trap books' now, he's probably actually in an age that looks very much like K'veer (unless Atrus knows a way to mess with the linking panel's view). Perhaps he's now trapped in a cave room just like he left Atrus in BOA... that would be a neat twist of irony. Probably thinks he's been in D'ni all along, but Atrus found a way out and he's there alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do remember reading a passage in one of the books where there is mention of "by altering key lines in the linking book the link itself becomes incomplete. It appears to be a proper linking book, but the user is trapped within the link, never reaching the other side."

I don't remember where I remember this from, I'll have to go re-read the books again. I think it was in The Book of Atrus, but I'm not sure. Oh well, it's like like re-reading the books is such a chore http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sage

GadrenURU
05-24-2005, 02:08 PM
(for the millionth time to many people),
that is the idea of a Trap Book. in the "actual" D'ni canon, Trap Books do not exist, and are merely an artistic liscence. Sirrus, Achenar, and Gehn were not trapped within a Link, but rather inside fully-developed Ages with no way out.

JustBrett
05-24-2005, 06:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SageBlackthorn:
I do remember reading a passage in one of the books where there is mention of "by altering key lines in the linking book the link itself becomes incomplete. It appears to be a proper linking book, but the user is trapped within the link, never reaching the other side." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe that quote is from Atrus's journal in Riven, not from one of the novels.

thewebb
05-25-2005, 06:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JustBrett:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SageBlackthorn:
I do remember reading a passage in one of the books where there is mention of "by altering key lines in the linking book the link itself becomes incomplete. It appears to be a proper linking book, but the user is trapped within the link, never reaching the other side." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe that quote is from Atrus's journal in Riven, not from one of the novels. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's what i thought at first. the line "by altering key lines of the book" is defenitely farmiliar to me (and i haven't read the books). not sure if i remember the thing about being trapped in the link though.

either way this seems to contradict the idea that trap books are merely ages with no linking books in them. or does it.... on second thoughts it could make sence. all it does is change it a bit thus linking you to a different age.

ah i dunno. these sorts of inconsistencies irritate me. i still think when myst and riven were made trap books were not meant to be ages. rather just empty spaces. one classic example is if they are ages why does linking to them free the other person? i read some long winded explanaiton about this that said in myst using the book (or putting the last page in) is supposed to be symbolic for "i want to free him" and you really go in with a book (can't remember where it's supposed to have come from) but then he betrays you and somehow destroys the book as he leaves. I DON'T BUY IT!

i mean, in riven in atrus' journal it specifically says if you use the trap book it free's whoever was trapped at the time. plus there's the fact that sirrus and achenar could see you from inside the books. it just doesn't add up.

to be honest i don't like the idea that the linking books are real ages. i think they just made it up for myst 4. i wish i could remember where i saw this article (i think by RAWA) if anyone knows what i'm talking about it please post a link

JustBrett
05-25-2005, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thewebb:
to be honest i don't like the idea that the linking books are real ages. i think they just made it up for myst 4. i wish i could remember where i saw this article (i think by RAWA) if anyone knows what i'm talking about it please post a link </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The article you're talking about is at http://www.dnidesk.com/rawa4.html. This is far, far older than Myst IV.

Alahmnat
05-25-2005, 02:33 PM
It's sad, but I have that address memorized http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

If Kehrin ever takes her site down, she's gonna have to send me a copy of that page, 'cause I don't think it's *anywhere* else online, not even at DPWR.

GadrenURU
05-25-2005, 04:47 PM
Teroglahn already added it:
http://www.dpwr.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2575

Boyue65
06-20-2005, 12:26 AM
Keep in mind that Gehn was a classically trained explorer. He would always have carried with him a Linking Book to 233, and we know that the Trap Book didn't lead to a Death Age, since the player links there and back safely. Therefore, I believe that it is safe to assume that Gehn could escape to 233 easily enough...

... but, given that he was already rather old and only 1/2 D'ni, I suspect that he's long dead from old age.

Alahmnat
06-20-2005, 01:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Boyue65:
Keep in mind that Gehn was a classically trained explorer. He would always have carried with him a Linking Book to 233, and we know that the Trap Book didn't lead to a Death Age, since the player links there and back safely. Therefore, I believe that it is safe to assume that Gehn could escape to 233 easily enough... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, while that assumption is quite likely, it's also equally likely that Gehn didn't have the means necessary to power his own return Book. Remember that his homemade Books required considerable power, and while he did seem to at one time be in possession of one of Catherine's Gateway crystals, there's no evidence that he had it with him when he linked, so even if he did have a Book with him, it would be useless. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GadrenURU
06-20-2005, 06:45 AM
RAWA said that Gehn WAS in the habit of carrying a Linking Book with him, but even if he had one, he could still be trapped.

I think that the RAWA-confirmed version goes like this:


The player finds the Prison Book that was stolen from him, and lets Gehn see it.
Gehn, suspicious of it being a trap, flips through the Book. Now, I very much doubt that he would even think of it being safe if he saw a lot of scored out phrases (as would be needed if it followed the old Trap Book idea). The Writing looked like a normal Age, (albeit one that wasn't D'ni but looked like it).
Gehn has the player go into the Age first, and the player does so.
Gehn, after a couple of days, finally goes into the Prison Age, with a Linking Book (as he always carries).
Somehow, the player, when Gehn arrives, is able to get the Linking Book away from him, and links away, destroying the Book in the process.

Thus, the player is free, and Gehn is trapped.

Boyue65
06-21-2005, 08:37 AM
You'll forgive me if I don't entirely believe that. While Gehn is an old man, and we think the Player to be a man in his prime, it's unlikely that Gehn would not have had at least a firearm on his person somewhere. I find it more likely that he couldn't power his book, but there you go.

Of course, seeing as he had a link-enhancing crystal, it's possible that he could get back easily enough. Besides, if he absolutely needed that power source to link around, how did he get 233 started? He would have had to build the apparatus to power the Books beforehand and linked with it, and last check was that he would have had to know what power source he was building from to begin with. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to return to Riven, for food or supplies or whatever.

Takua-Kaita-600
07-20-2005, 03:35 PM
No, it wouldn't make sense for Gehn to come back. He's probably already dead. As of prison books, I have a theory, but it's a bit far-fetched. Maybe I'll post it in the Myst forum.

frenyo
07-30-2005, 05:04 PM
Hmmm.... as the MREDU storyline was changed several times since Myst and Riven (e.g. Prison Books --&gt; Prison Ages) and the two boys returned in Myst IV, nothing is sure or final - maybe Gehn will appear in Myst VI or VII, who knows.

As to Boyue65: there are a lot of "hows" in the whole franchise. Sirrus arrived to a desolate Prison Age without nothing, and he created many gadgets without any industrial background - steel chains, electrical equipments and circuits and so on. Many similar examples can be found. How did Atrus create the vast underground system in the Selenitic Age? The best to forget these questions: in the realm of fantasy everything is possible.

Alahmnat
07-31-2005, 02:07 AM
A Prison Age is only escapable if you leave a Linking Book there to escape with. Thus, the only way Sirrus and Achenar escaped in Revelation is because Sirrus gained access to the Tomahna Linking Books left in the two Ages by Atrus after his tentative change of heart. Since Atrus and company are already well-convinced of his father's insanity, there's no chance of them allowing any such event to take place with Gehn. He's stuck in a replica of the basement of K'veer.

And, not to belabor the point or anything, but there isn't really any sort of material change in the games' story by altering the effect of the Books in which Sirrus and Achenar are trapped. They're still trapped, and for all intents and purposes, for the sake of being able to complete the game, they still would have been able to talk to you through the Linking Panels (there's another twist, sound doesn't travel through Linking Panels... but that would have made Myst rather hard to complete, wouldn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

bowendesign
07-31-2005, 03:31 AM
Heheh, good point. Like any mythos, the Myst universe is full of inconsistencies. What gets me about these things is when people treat it as something that's been completely planned out in realistic detail, and then spend ages trying to iron out or explain the inconsistencies... but that's fandom, I suppose.