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View Full Version : Ubisoft, are you sure you're taking the AC series in the right direction? ACR&Beyond



RichardHaro
12-02-2011, 08:25 PM
I apologise in advance for how incoherent and waffley this is.

While I liked Revelations, especially the story missions, I felt it went a bit downhill in other ways

I hope Ubisoft look at what made AC2 so great, the best in the series, and try and replicate it in AC3. Why was it the best game in my humble opinion? Because of the unique feeling and euphoria I had when playing it compared to its sequels.

Does anyone miss that feel you had when you played AC2? There was something about that game the following two just didn't have.

I think it may have been the feeling of the "epic", in the true sense of the word. You go from watching Ezio being born, to his every day life in Florence, to watching his family die before him to being plunged into this war and Assassin brotherhood which he understands as much as you, the viewer/player do. You are with him through his journey that takes him across MULTIPLE cities in Italy, to the most beautiful location ubisoft have done - Venice - to eventually Rome over the course of 20 years. The multiple cities really did add to the feeling of the sheer gigantic task laid out before Ezio - it established a grandiose scale and contributes to a feeling I'll elaborate on later. The development Ezio goes through over 20 years, the way the world and history changes in that time... it's impossible to describe how much love I have for this aspect of the game. The feeling of being submerged deep in an ocean, not sure of Ezio or the world's fate, not sure of your surroundings, surrounded by enemies with little backup. AC2 felt like it had so much more depth and mystery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJx4r****Y

Let's not forget the AMAZING OST that we all love. Ezio's Family, Flight Over Venice... amazingly atmospheric pieces of music. What pieces such as Flight Over Venice added to the game cannot be understated, even listening to it now instantly catapults me back into Venice, into that mist, the feeling is instantly returned.

And of course, all 20 of THE TRUTH glyphs. As you played the game and unlocked more and more of them, alongside Altair's Codex entries, you slowly start to piece together the true enormity of the conspiracy laid out before you - but you dare not think it to be true, because it's so grandiose and horrifying... and then at the end of the game, all your theories are proved correct, and you're left on a cliff hanger begging for more, NEEDING more.

And Leonardo Da Vinci. Bro of the years, all years. Your eternal friend. Revelations wasn't nearly long enough for Yusuf to make the same impact, even if he was awesome.


I'm a bit worried about the future of the franchise. They need to toss out of the window all the gimmicks and flaws they added in Brotherhood and Revelations and bring back the FEELING from AC2. Get rid of micromanaging cities economies, I want to be an Assassin exploring cities and uncovering conspiracies, not playing capitalist running around buying shops and worrying about upgrading things. Get rid of most of the entire buying/upgrading stuff altogether. In Revelations, there was no point in most of the armour sets, because by the time I had access to the last two purchasable ones, I had unlocked the Master Assassin AND the Ottoman set which are both superior. I don't object to all this too much, but I think the entire renovating shops thing is a bit too far and is a bit pointless, and most of all - not fun. Feeling pressured to upgrade and buy all the shops in Constantinople really impacted my enjoyment of the game and I could not feel relaxed in taking on the story missions until I had unlocked every shop. Take away the overpowered items, reduce pouch space and make default enemies like the Janissiries from Revelations - harder to fight than run away. And the Europe-wide awful mission game was not fun either.

Revelations and Brotherhood added some good things, but went backwards in some ways too.

I hope AC3 combines the best of all games and makes something fantastic. It needs to be built from the ground up though. It needs a new engine. It needs to be more detailed, with more complex textures, models, animations. We should be able to go inside buildings as well, and take cover to stealth as well. These are things needed by a new generation console, as the current generation are already at their limits and are awful compared to 2011 high end gaming PCs.

LaCava1
12-02-2011, 09:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...bkAxc&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-EvW4bkAxc&feature=relmfu)

Just kidding.

I agree: I want the feel of AC2 back as well.

kriegerdesgottes
12-02-2011, 09:41 PM
I know I'm being pessimistic but I can't help but wonder sometimes if they'll ever be able to top ACII. ACII did sooo much stuff right that it ALMOST made you overlook the little stuff that it screwed up like not being able to remove armor and not being able to replay missions and the dlc thing they pulled with ACII. It got the music perfect, the scenery, the advertising was great, the new character blew us all away. I know if anyone can pull it off all over again it's Ubisoft Montreal but I am legitimately worried especially with the annualization of the games and large portions of the team being new and the fact that Patrice and Jean Francois are no longer even there nor is Jade Raymond, but I guess she was gone even before ACII.

Dagio12
12-02-2011, 11:02 PM
I can see what you are saying. I think there are a lot of reasons that would lead my personal opinion to believe that they are somewhat and sometimes on the right track, and others that dont. For the most part, the gameplay gets stronger and smoother and the story gets more intriguing. There are definitely things however that are lacking in the 2 latest ones... many of which you pointed out. It kind of makes sense in my eyes though, the last two games were still about Ezio and his quests. The games kinda of play the same which makes the experience throughout his story quite cohesive. I never expected Brohood and Revelations to be quite as "big" as AC2. ACB and ACR didnt really need to span 20 some odd years. They were more there to show certain important moments in his assassin life.

Personally, I loved Revelations a lot, I thought they really got the story and the presentation right, and the story missions were very well thought out and put together (some of my favorites in the series to be honest). With that said, it was a little short and there wasn't much with side missions to play around with. I will also agree that the renovation portion of the game is becoming a little much. I know they want us to use the money we make, but how about making it harder to earn money, such as random events, pickpocketing.. etc, not just making a bunch just on completing mission and earning way to much money we dont know what to do with. I enjoyed renovating the Villa in AC2 and that was it. That was good. If they spend less time making us renovate the whole town and focused on stronger story missions and more immersible random events and side mission, I think they would really make the experience top-notch.

LightRey
12-03-2011, 03:03 AM
They are.

dxsxhxcx
12-03-2011, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by RichardHaro:

I'm a bit worried about the future of the franchise. They need to toss out of the window all the gimmicks and flaws they added in Brotherhood and Revelations and bring back the FEELING from AC2. Get rid of micromanaging cities economies, I want to be an Assassin exploring cities and uncovering conspiracies, not playing capitalist running around buying shops and worrying about upgrading things. Get rid of most of the entire buying/upgrading stuff altogether. I don't object to all this too much, but I think the entire renovating shops thing is a bit too far and is a bit pointless, and most of all - not fun.

I agree with this, I never liked this feature since ACB, they should make it like it was in AC2, put a damn miniature of the city in the assassin main hideout and allow us to buy a few shops from there with the click of a button (make it simple), give us some discounts in those shops and that's it (one of each, or maybe stores that we don't even interact with in the game, just to justify the incoming of money)...

after some time buying shops in ACB I got mad everytime I needed to do that, the animation of the shop being opened was something that was driving me mad and I couldn't skip that, and I needed to do that everytime I had the chance to not waste my time going back to my hideout to buy from the shops that were close to it, huge and pointless waste of time IMO, AC2 managed this much better than ACB and probably ACR (I didn't play ACR yet but I bet this is still there)...

pacmanate
12-03-2011, 04:59 AM
Of course this will happen. AC3 = New ancestor = Same thing we got with ezio in AC2

ace3001
12-03-2011, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
IMO, AC2 managed this much better than ACB and probably ACR (I didn't play ACR yet but I bet this is still there)... It's a bit worse this time. Your notoriety (called "Templar Awareness" this time) goes up a bit everytime you renovate a shop...

On topic, I agree that ACII was great. It is so far my favourite entry in the series. I wish I could explain what made it great, though. And it's not the first game I played either, I started with AC1, so it's not a deal with me loving the first one I played. ACII quite simply blew my mind. I thought AC1 was great, but ACII made me the AC fan I am today. Brotherhood and Revelations couldn't match that somehow. Maybe a new ancestor in a new era can bring in the same effect, at least to some degree?

n3krO1191
12-03-2011, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by kolitha.kuruppu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
IMO, AC2 managed this much better than ACB and probably ACR (I didn't play ACR yet but I bet this is still there)... It's a bit worse this time. Your notoriety (called "Templar Awareness" this time) goes up a bit everytime you renovate a shop...

On topic, I agree that ACII was great. It is so far my favourite entry in the series. I wish I could explain what made it great, though. And it's not the first game I played either, I started with AC1, so it's not a deal with me loving the first one I played. ACII quite simply blew my mind. I thought AC1 was great, but ACII made me the AC fan I am today. Brotherhood and Revelations couldn't match that somehow. Maybe a new ancestor in a new era can bring in the same effect, at least to some degree? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i love the templar awareness more then notoriety, i love how they separated normal guards from templar guards, it's much better now.

I know renovating is somehow useless but u can do the whole game without renovating as you could in Ac2... it's just for hardcore gamers and it adds more lifetime.

On topic, i agree Ac2 was better then AcB and AcR as well as i think that Ac1 wasn't as bad as ppl often says (i think ac1 and ac2 was as good as each other) but AcR really improved over AcB in my opinion.

dxsxhxcx
12-03-2011, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by n3krO1191:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kolitha.kuruppu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
IMO, AC2 managed this much better than ACB and probably ACR (I didn't play ACR yet but I bet this is still there)... It's a bit worse this time. Your notoriety (called "Templar Awareness" this time) goes up a bit everytime you renovate a shop...

On topic, I agree that ACII was great. It is so far my favourite entry in the series. I wish I could explain what made it great, though. And it's not the first game I played either, I started with AC1, so it's not a deal with me loving the first one I played. ACII quite simply blew my mind. I thought AC1 was great, but ACII made me the AC fan I am today. Brotherhood and Revelations couldn't match that somehow. Maybe a new ancestor in a new era can bring in the same effect, at least to some degree? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know renovating is somehow useless but u can do the whole game without renovating as you could in Ac2... it's just for hardcore gamers and it adds more lifetime. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the problem is, the renovations are there and directly affect the gameplay (and for worse if you don't do them), IMO something it's not optional anymore when directly affect your experience with the game, optional for me is something that I don't need to do and by not doing it, it won't affect me, like some side missions in AC2/B, for example:

the assassinations contracts are optional, you can finish the game without doing them and if you don't do them, this won't affect you (the way you play the game) in any way... while renovations will affect you, if you don't renovate/buy the shops, you'll need to waste your time going to a place where they already are open to buy your stuff (like I said, for worse, since this isn't even something challenging/fun to do, is boring)...

ace3001
12-03-2011, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by n3krO1191:
Ac1 wasn't as bad as ppl often says (i think ac1 and ac2 was as good as each other) AC1 was a great game with one big flaw. BORING repetitive mission structure. AC2 fixed this. Which is why I find it okay to forgive some of the flaws that AC2 brought into the series. First of all, the game should be fun. Not saying AC1 wasn't fun, but by the last few sequences, only the story kept me going. Felt like I had experienced all the gameplay it had to offer, just after the first few sequences. Sorry for derailing the thread. Just needed to point that out.

ace3001
12-03-2011, 06:47 AM
And yes, renovations do affect gameplay. With ACR, because I wanna keep my templar awareness low, I have to keep on going to shops that I have already renovated, and that's sometimes a long stretch. If I renovate a few new ones, I'm gonna have to go find heralds or officials who are not marked on the map until you get near them. That's far worse.

Tessem
12-03-2011, 08:06 AM
I try not to be too overly pessimistic about the various features that were added to ACB and ACR, but I can clearly see your points.

I liked the fact in AC2 that your population grew as Monteriggioni grew. Or am I wrong, lol, to be honest I dont really remember if this is true.
In ACB I was probably not so "annoyed" by this feature yet, because my mind kind of told me "by opening these shops you help the Templar-opressed people of Rome, and you get something in return".

By the time ACR came by, and I must admit I have not finished the story, I felt that renovating shops is kind of "wasting your time". As clearly stated by one of Ezio's apprentices: "Mentor, if I have to, I will wait a whole year" and Ezio replies "Let us hope not, I do not have much time". This shows us that Ezio is running on a time-schedule, he has to get the keys before the Templars, making the renovating-feature a bit restraining and annoying.

A bit off-topic but still relevant:
I feel AC1 is like the bedtime stories we were told when we were young - we vaguely remember them, but we still respect and enjoy it.
AC2 is representing or youth/teenager-years, one of the best years we had, and we look back upon this with great nostalgia and fondness of memories. As our star-brothers, the Auditores, said on the rooftop: "F: It is a good life we lead, brother. E: The best - may it never change. F: And may it never change us". This conversation states how we were like, we wanted things to never change, but they did. We learn that authority is not always equal to goodness, and we learn to question this. These years built our charachter as it is today.
ACB is the symbol for our hard encounter with being grown-ups. We are constantly on the run, and we may have to do tasks that not always seem so enriching and interesting, but still we do it with steady hand. As we built our character in the teenager/late teenager years, we now feel that we are perfecting and honing our skills.
ACR - this represents the everyday life that we lead in present time. We seek answers, but few are given to us. Our daily tasks seem somewhat cryptic, boring, and not leading anywhere. This reflects with Ezio's letter to Claudia: "Today I have more questions than answers."

I hope this last part wasnt too blurry and abstract, and have in mind that you must read it "between the lines".

twenty_glyphs
12-03-2011, 02:43 PM
I agree that AC2 was the best game of the series, and had a feeling to it that just hasn't been replicated. The pacing was good with the story and game progression, and as you went along it just felt like there was more and more awesome stuff to see and do. It started out kind of intriguing and cool with Desmond escaping, then seeing Ezio in Florence and finding the first Truth puzzle and Codex page... The game just kept hitting you with stuff. I couldn't wait to get to Venice, and then as you kept going in the story you opened up more of that city. Finding Truth puzzles and Codex pages made you feel like you were piecing together this big mystery on two different fronts. Monterrigioni was the best hideout to date since it was big and something you really owned.

These are all things that I feel can be replicated again with a new ancestor and a new setting. We need multiple cities again, even if the biggest ones are smaller than Rome and Constantinople. Multiple locations makes you feel the progression in the story and gives so much variety during and after the game. And bring back something like the Codex pages and the Truth. I think one front needs to give us lots of information about the First Civilization on the same level as AC2's Truth puzzles. Maybe something where you find all 20 of the glyphs from AC2 and each one gives you a puzzle that reveals clues about what that glyph has meant all along. I also want to see some other mystery to piece together based on something historical again like the Codex pages. Something that directly drives the story the way the Codex pages did would be nice too.

The economic system needs a major overhaul. AC2's felt pretty natural and worked pretty well. Then in Brotherhood I felt they kind of stretched it a bit by renovating the entire city to even open shops, but at least it unlocked new items as you went along and the city changed a little bit due to your actions. Monterrigioni had the best level of change as you renovated it that was very noticeable, with thieves, mercenaries and courtesans appearing in town when you opened their guilds, and those buildings obviously changing. At least Rome also had the aquedecuts that did change and allowed you to reach some new places. But in Constantinople it was so tacked on and annoying. There was no story reason for renovating, nothing in the city changed as you opened shops, no new items appeared at different levels of renovation — it was so meaningless. The next game needs to rethink some of these systems.

Eregost
12-03-2011, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
I know I'm being pessimistic but I can't help but wonder sometimes if they'll ever be able to top ACII. ACII did sooo much stuff right that it ALMOST made you overlook the little stuff that it screwed up like not being able to remove armor and not being able to replay missions and the dlc thing they pulled with ACII. It got the music perfect, the scenery, the advertising was great, the new character blew us all away. I know if anyone can pull it off all over again it's Ubisoft Montreal but I am legitimately worried especially with the annualization of the games and large portions of the team being new and the fact that Patrice and Jean Francois are no longer even there nor is Jade Raymond, but I guess she was gone even before ACII.

Actually Jade worked on II, she had the 2nd top spot on the team.

Personally I feel the atmosphere has gotten less immersive as the series progressed. It's due to a number of factors that I am too tired to point out right now but I felt AC1 had the best atmosphere, followed by II, B and then R and I know of others who feel the same.

johnnyhayek
12-03-2011, 03:05 PM
I'm afraid they just had to make ACB and ACR the way they are. The reason is that the modern day story limits it. The goal of the assassins is to stop what happens in 2012, the end of the world. Ubisoft just has to make all these games before the end of 2012, otherwise it's just pointless for us to play them after 2012(I think). So, they just don't have enough time to make ACB and ACR the same way they did AC2(which had 2 years). So, I'm expecting AC3 to be no different than the last 2 games, but future installments will definitely be better.

Eregost
12-03-2011, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by johnnyhayek:
I'm afraid they just had to make ACB and ACR the way they are. The reason is that the modern day story limits it. The goal of the assassins is to stop what happens in 2012, the end of the world. Ubisoft just has to make all these games before the end of 2012, otherwise it's just pointless for us to play them after 2012(I think). So, they just don't have enough time to make ACB and ACR the same way they did AC2(which had 2 years). So, I'm expecting AC3 to be no different than the last 2 games, but future installments will definitely be better.

Well first of all they didn't have to make ACB and ACR or could have only made one, giving them more time. Secondly I fail to see why they must release 3 in 2012 and find the whole thing rather silly. So the real world didn't end, will that make you like the game less or would you feel it's a spoiler since the Assassins must have succeeded? The game is a work of fiction set in another universe you know.

YuurHeen
12-03-2011, 03:16 PM
could be me but my humble opinion is that ac2 was the least fun game of the serie.

ProdiGurl
12-03-2011, 03:22 PM
I still prefer ACB - I love the kill streak system & the tutorials platform in it.
I like Ezio in it, I love Rome & the sountrack, I love the horse I kept,.......
loved alot of the missions & his love interests.

I think they're all great in their own right - each one has its specific uniqueness that some will prefer over others, and I think everyone loves a new character to get into. When you have a Trilogy, people get 'meh' about added titles bcuz the newness wears off probably.

I think the missions in ACR were crafted much better, I had more fun doing those - they didn't make long drawn out missions, if it was long, they split it into another memory or part 2.

I think AC3 will be very different bcuz it will be in a new era w/ new surroundings to get used to with a new lead Character to get to know.
With a new setting, I think things will change now that we're done with a Trilogy.

As far as the shops, I LOVE city restoration, I just wish the money system was fixed.
By the end of the game I have well over 500k & nothing to spend it on.

I'd like it if we could fix up our Assassin Dens into kool places and have a system where the more you upgrade your dens, the more prominance you have in town or something . . something that taps into a perk you get w/ maybe the townspeople not turning you in if you have high awareness, or hiding you out or . . you get a faster horses.... whatever.

But the more things that have relevance within the city, the better. Kind of like how this time they made the Recruit missions relevant to something - not just randomness.

I love strategy games & building things, so this aspect is something I like, I just think it could be made more fun, more detailed and/or more central to the game somehow.

johnnyhayek
12-03-2011, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by YuurHeen:
could be me but my humble opinion is that ac2 was the least fun game of the serie.

I agree with you in terms of combat. After playing ACB's combat, I just couldn't play AC2 comfortably again. ACB had a way more fluid combst system.

As for the topic, well:

http://www.gamerzines.com/ps3/...creed-3-details.html (http://www.gamerzines.com/ps3/news/assassins-creed-3-details.html)

It might be that they have been developing AC3 since AC2, but alongside ACB and ACR as well. That might be the reason why they were different from AC2. I really hope so. That way, AC3 would surely be awesome.

Animuses
12-03-2011, 03:53 PM
Annual releases did this to the series. The creators of the franchise left, the games are being rushed, and the series has OBVIOUSLY suffered because of it.

We are never going to get the AC3 we were supposed to get.

tarrero
12-03-2011, 04:02 PM
Multiplayer is the main problem!!!!

I could not care less about it, but since the market "demands" basically any game to include that mode, we are heading to a even more rushed game every year.

AC2 was the best on this series (at least to me), its only fault was the fact you could not repeat memories, besides that, it was "perfect"

It is hard to develop a new story, mechanics and even graphics annually if you also have to include MP.

The way they could make combat or missions more difficult has many possibilities, but one thing I would remove is the fact that doctors and Blacksmiths are open 24/7.

I think it would be cool if close range gunshots are instantly lethal also...

Animuses
12-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by tarrero:
Multiplayer is the main problem!!!!
No, it's not.

tarrero
12-03-2011, 04:14 PM
It is matter of opinions, but I think that at least, is one of the main "issues".

It should be hard to deliver a game annually that both satisfy Multiplayer and singleplayer.

So, every two years but with MP>>>>> every year and with MP.

The first one has more odss of success.

Animuses
12-03-2011, 04:16 PM
It's not a matter of opinion. There was a separate team working on ACR's multiplayer.

tarrero
12-03-2011, 04:21 PM
Yes, but what if the money that went to the MP team or the team itself had gone to the SG one.

Odss of having a better story line and innovative stuff are higher.

YuurHeen
12-03-2011, 04:27 PM
while i do think they should have putted all effort in sp and no mp, i agree that it is more a time issue than a manpower issue.

Sarari
12-03-2011, 04:29 PM
I have the same feeling but with AC1. AC1 felt sacred and more assassiny, but AC2 had that mysterious feeling with the puzzles, and had the memorable feeling. I have to say, those 2 games were incredible. Each of them bring back so many memories.

I think the problem here is that Ubisoft isn't taking the series as serious as AC1 did. I'm talking about the gameplay with a FEW things. Notice how is said a few. Nobody start hating on me -____-

The dialogue is getting really crappy. Not in the sense or corniness, but that the guards are getting way to idiotic. In AC1, the guards weren't clueless and they didn't have strange accents. In AC2, they became slightly dumber, and a lot of them had these goofy Italian accents. Same goes with Brotherhood, except they've gotten dumber.

In ACR, the guards are very stupid and goofy. For example, when the Shahkulu told the guards to get the key, the guard said in the highest kid voice ever that he didn't have the keys. Once Shahkulu demanded him to find it, the guard turns around looking idiotic and starts yelling at the other guards with his childish voice saying "Who took it??? Was it you??"

If you don't believe me, replay some of the Cappadocia missions..

kriegerdesgottes
12-03-2011, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Animuses:
It's not a matter of opinion. There was a separate team working on ACR's multiplayer.

That could have been working on the SP and not wasting their time with MP but I do agree with you that it's not the MP that is hurting the franchise. The annual game direction is hurting it ten times more. The MP is actually decent but imo it doesn't belong in the series.

LightRey
12-04-2011, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Animuses:
It's not a matter of opinion. There was a separate team working on ACR's multiplayer.

That could have been working on the SP and not wasting their time with MP but I do agree with you that it's not the MP that is hurting the franchise. The annual game direction is hurting it ten times more. The MP is actually decent but imo it doesn't belong in the series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, they couldn't. They were specifically hired to develop the MP. Had they not decided to add MP they'd not brought in another team.

jnbennett4
12-04-2011, 03:06 AM
this strictly has to pertain to acr,

the renovations were useless along with the armour weapons ammunition etc, 2 reasons 1)you get plenty of ammo by assassinating enemies and 2nd once you do most of the master assassin missions you get the best armour in the game.

by the end of seq 8 i had 179k of useless money which all 179k of it was basically useless for the entire game.

den defense was boring and way too repititive plus recruiting assassins and den defense had nothing to do with the main story. (the assassins help ezio even if you dont recruit)

Main dissapointment was with the end of the game IMO, they could have continued the cinematic from desmonds awakening since the game was short in itself explaining more of desmonds role or why desmonds father was there in the van, etc. and off the subject but did anyone notice that subject 16 and altairs son durim looked incredibly alike, for a sec there i thought subject 16 was in fact altairs son lol

ElDoucherino
12-04-2011, 04:33 AM
Why is everybody so damn nervous about the AC3 outcome? I have full trust that Ubisoft since the release of AC2 have had a team working on feature and story. If nobody have notice it before, it was 5 or 6 studios working on ACR. In other words, Ubisoft is quite large. I highlt doubt that they will risk the series by throw something together for Desmonds epic conclusion. It is so far fetched.

ACB and ACR was not as great as the numbered titles, no thought about it, but see it for what it is. Something to play around with until AC3 which will be breathtaking (my own hopes of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). Like a bigger DLC. I for one enjoyed both ACB and ACR and though they lack something (cannot put the finger on it) it was still great fun killing janissaires and creating a mosh pit (posion gas+multiple guards=fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

So relax. Chill. It's not the end of the world. Yet.

johnnyhayek
12-04-2011, 06:37 AM
While I haven't played ACR yet, I think ACB and ACR were maybe meant to be more like expansions than sequels, but I personally see them as sequels. So, I don't really know about the story in ACR and what happens in it, the end of AC2 revealed to us that the team must find the temples in order to stop the end of the world. ACB was about finding the apple in order to find those temples, but we basically got nothing except that speech by Juno at the end. ACR no idea yet. ACR I'm guessing did not involve finding temples, but then again, maybe it did(no spoilers please). So, notice how the plot is still stretching from AC2's ending, which means that ACB and ACR are just expansions. AC3 will finally truly continue the plot from AC2, though I'm probably wrong.

LightRey
12-04-2011, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by johnnyhayek:
While I haven't played ACR yet, I think ACB and ACR were maybe meant to be more like expansions than sequels, but I personally see them as sequels. So, I don't really know about the story in ACR and what happens in it, the end of AC2 revealed to us that the team must find the temples in order to stop the end of the world. ACB was about finding the apple in order to find those temples, but we basically got nothing except that speech by Juno at the end. ACR no idea yet. ACR I'm guessing did not involve finding temples, but then again, maybe it did(no spoilers please). So, notice how the plot is still stretching from AC2's ending, which means that ACB and ACR are just expansions. AC3 will finally truly continue the plot from AC2, though I'm probably wrong.
Hehe...

You're sorta right about how to look at the games.

killzab
12-04-2011, 10:34 AM
I'm really not convinced that AC3 has been in development since AC2 and I expect a game just at the level of Revelations, which means lackluster compared to AC2.

Silvrslide
12-04-2011, 11:42 AM
Funny how people are trying to tell other people how to make their game, their vision.

LightRey
12-04-2011, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Silvrslide:
Funny how people are trying to tell other people how to make their game, their vision.
Well constructive criticism always helps, but in a sense you're right. In the end the devs don't just make the games for the fans, they also make them for themselves. They're artists and they're simply using games as a form of art to express themselves.

ProdiGurl
12-04-2011, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Shanki_86:
Why is everybody so damn nervous about the AC3 outcome? I have full trust that Ubisoft since the release of AC2 have had a team working on feature and story. If nobody have notice it before, it was 5 or 6 studios working on ACR. In other words, Ubisoft is quite large. I highlt doubt that they will risk the series by throw something together for Desmonds epic conclusion. It is so far fetched.

ACB and ACR was not as great as the numbered titles, no thought about it, but see it for what it is. Something to play around with until AC3 which will be breathtaking (my own hopes of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). Like a bigger DLC. I for one enjoyed both ACB and ACR and though they lack something (cannot put the finger on it) it was still great fun killing janissaires and creating a mosh pit (posion gas+multiple guards=fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

So relax. Chill. It's not the end of the world. Yet.

The only thing I can't agree w/ is ACB & ACR not being as good (or even being better) than ACII.
I can't speak to AC1 bcuz I still haven't played it. But I think all 3 of the Trilogy are awesome and provide different things that different fans like. I prefer ACB & ACR to ACII, but I love all 3 & will always enjoy replaying each one

I have confidence in Ubi too, I think AC3 will be amazing, esp. if they listen to some of the constructive comments of their fans.
The only way I won't like AC3 is if it's ALL Desmond & there's no new Protagonist.

RichardHaro
12-10-2011, 04:27 PM
Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm glad to see people agree with me.

If it were my decision, I would completely ignore the 2012 deadline. Why does it have to be current? Will you not be able to replay these games in 2013 ? It's fiction! There are all sorts of media that made predictions of the future that haven't come to pass that are still great, like Star Trek, 2001: A Space Odyssey, etc. The game can still be set in a fictional 2012 in the past even if it's released in 2013 or 2014.

Or are Ubisoft motivated by money, and want to get as much cash and exposure as possible? Releasing the game in late 2012 at the height of END OF THE WORLD SYNDROME will certainly make them more money.

As does having yearly releases of games that aren't 1/4 the size of AC2, but cost the same. And taking out parts of the game (Battle of Forli anyone?) and selling it later as DLC to us.

With the creative/visionary minds behind the series gone, and the greedy shareholders/corporate dogs seemingly calling the shots instead, the future of AC is bleak. AC2 may never be surpassed.

D.I.D.
12-10-2011, 07:42 PM
I liked the property system in ACB. Walking into a derelict area, tearing the Borgia out of there and then going around buying up the town felt like a sort of victory lap, and it was a really good piece of design to see all the colour and life come back into a district because you won. Now it's a chore, because buying a shop inexplicably brings more attention than killing dozens of guards in broad daylight, so you have to get into an irritating grind of buying up a few buildings and then running around bribing people to calm things down again. That's not fun.

I really hope they bring back the puzzles and/or the politics too. I loved seeing all the references to Edison, Henry Ford, Thatcher, G. W. Bush and so on as Templars, and I never thought I'd see figures such as Allende and Mossadegh celebrated in a game. Ubisoft seems to have backed off from that, both the intelligence and the controversy. I hope they get back to it in AC3, but I suspect the rumoured movie deal is going to neuter that whole side of the narrative.

Another thing - the TWCB line is starting to look suspiciously like Scientology. I hope they can steer a way out of this before it becomes some horrible lycra-clad gold 747s nonsense, but judging by what we've just seen it might be too late for that.

JumpInTheFire13
12-10-2011, 08:15 PM
I almost completely agree with you. AC2 was and still is the best game I ever played.
I actually enjoy the renovating of shops because it lets you see the whole city, since you have to travel all over the city to get to them. However, I think it would make more sense if the STORY MISSIONS TOOK US ALL OVER THE CITY. The shop renovating mad a lot more sense in Brotherhood because we were literally renovating Rome. The city was being opressed by the Borgia and Ezio needed to take it back from them for the people. Constantinople is a city already flourishing with different cultures, so it isn't really necessary.

If there are this many people commenting on how they loved AC2 more than the latest 2 installments, AND it's on the official Assassin's Creed forums, then I'm sure somebody is bound to see it and say "hey, maybe we should look at what we did to make the second game so phenomal, and do it again for AC3." I really hope AC3 isn't a let down.

deadshot_7
12-10-2011, 08:26 PM
I agree although i thought ac2 and acb were tied in my opinion, revelations is some awesome gameplay and the maysaf key missions are badass. however i do miss the impact that ac2 and acb had. multiplayer is the real issue with revelations

Sarari
12-10-2011, 09:24 PM
Wrong direction. All I have to say.

yly3
12-11-2011, 04:43 AM
All I'm saying is :

AC1 11/10 (it's 2deep4you if you don't get it, it was meant to be an assassin simulator, this thing didn't have a map!)

AC2 9/10 (lost of magic of AC1, added a GTA flavour for casual gamer not into philoshopy and all that, but compensated with mass change and lots of content + great OST)

ACB : 5.8/10 (no comment, but really where's the plot ?)

ACR : 6.8/10 (a shadow of AC 2, but well done with crowd diversity, it's the only "sequel" of AC1 when it comes to crowds)


To be taken into account that 5/10 is medium in my standards which is an acceptable game.

Animuses
12-11-2011, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Sarari:
Wrong direction. All I have to say. Agreed.

Blind2Society
12-11-2011, 10:29 AM
RichardHaro, well said. I agree, ACII was certainly the best in the series and making any upcoming ACs more like it is a move in the right direction. One thing though, keep the bombs, I loved em. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tessem
12-12-2011, 02:44 PM
I have too little time on my hands to actually write one of the long replies that contribute to such threads, but I just want to point one thing out:
Even though it might seem a little bit bureaucratic and boring, PLEASE add a little spoiler-alert if you are going to talk about something from the story, and definitely if it is about the ending! I have not completed the game yet, and I really dislike going to the cinema and getting to know the plot after 10 minutes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Animuses
12-12-2011, 02:47 PM
@Blind2Society
I thought you died. D:

Lass4r
12-12-2011, 03:41 PM
I have my doubts that they'll be able to top or make as good a game as AC2 and have it still be Assassins Creed. It will take quite a bit to surprise us now. And I don't think they'll be able to do it in time for AC3, which will be out by December next year. I'd like to see them try though!

AC2 is indeed my favourite game aswell, I can't think of anything I've played that had me so engaged.

Blind2Society
12-12-2011, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Animuses:
@Blind2Society
I thought you died. D:
One word, Oblivion.

I'm actually still playing but it's been a while so I though I ought to pop my head in and see what's what.

And what do you know? A crap ton of newcomers flooding the forums with useless threads. This one was good though.

luckyto
12-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Animuses:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sarari:
Wrong direction. All I have to say. Agreed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep.

With each one, there's been been only one or two new things worth keeping. Though, Revelations was notch higher than Brotherhood, so maybe there is hope. But it would be best to go back to square one.


In AC1, the guards weren't clueless and they didn't have strange accents

The guards actually spoke in their native languages most of the time. German, Arabic, French, etc.

ProdiGurl
12-12-2011, 04:27 PM
I'm sincerely trying to grasp what's different from ACII as opposed to ACB & ACR.
I've said it before, but I have to say this in order to give background on my opinion/perspective on AC.

I have still not played AC1 to know what you're referring to. My first AC game was like 6 mos. ago when I bought ACB. So ACB & AC2 are all I know.

I appreciated the Altair parts in ACR in order to get to know his character more & his life.

I had a sense of awe in AC2, but I think that "it" factor is all in the story line, not so much the gameplay itself. ?

The story had mystery & suspense in it, ACB & ACR have alot less of that even tho they tell a good story.

If the story is more of a roller coaster to peak our interest, lure us w/ mystery, then the game will probly be that much better even if they kept the gameplay the same as it is.

Could that be some of it?

luckyto
12-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Silvrslide:
Funny how people are trying to tell other people how to make their game, their vision.
Well constructive criticism always helps, but in a sense you're right. In the end the devs don't just make the games for the fans, they also make them for themselves. They're artists and they're simply using games as a form of art to express themselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Balogna. Some are artists. But Ubisoft, the company who employs those artists, makes games to make $$$$$$$. Artists have time schedules and time schedules, restrictive ones, hurt the artistic product. Ask any professional artist from a copy writer to a graphic designer to a movie director to a script writer to a 3D modeler.

luckyto
12-12-2011, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by ProdiGurl:


I have still not played AC1 to know what you're referring to. My first AC game was like 6 mos. ago when I bought ACB. So ACB & AC2 are all I know.


Well, play AC2. Because AC1 is a RADICAL departure from anything that you are used to; it will take a while to warm up to. But if you hang to the middle of Sequence Four, you should see. But play AC2 first. Then pick AC1 for fun. Used is about $12 these days.

Sarari
12-12-2011, 04:38 PM
They're going in the wrong direction and I'll make a list why imo:

1. Changed the plot of the game. When I say that, I mean they changed the whole philosophy and feeling of being an assassin to more of an in depth game. As someone said above, more of a GTA4 kind of style.

2. Changed the writers after AC2. If you haven't noticed, ACB had some awful script writing, in dialogue, and on how the story was gonna progress in it. The dialogue was corny and cheesy. Same goes to ACR, when Ezio gave that little speech after Yusuf died. How he talked about not crossing the assassins. Also when Desmond just says "I know what I have to do", that was pretty lame. It didn't even get me hyped up for the next AC game.

3. Getting very unrealistic in so many ways, it's becoming like Saints Row 2 & 3.

At this rate, I don't see it getting any better. I can only imagine how bad AC3 and beyond is gonna be written.

ProdiGurl
12-12-2011, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Sarari:
They're going in the wrong direction and I'll make a list why imo:

1. Changed the plot of the game. When I say that, I mean they changed the whole philosophy and feeling of being an assassin to more of an in depth game. As someone said above, more of a GTA4 kind of style.

2. Changed the writers after AC2. If you haven't noticed, ACB had some awful script writing, in dialogue, and on how the story was gonna progress in it. The dialogue was corny and cheesy. Same goes to ACR, when Ezio gave that little speech after Yusuf died. How he talked about not crossing the assassins. Also when Desmond just says "I know what I have to do", that was pretty lame. It didn't even get me hyped up for the next AC game.

3. Getting very unrealistic in so many ways, it's becoming like Saints Row 2 & 3.

At this rate, I don't see it getting any better. I can only imagine how bad AC3 and beyond is gonna be written.

Now this is something I can more agree with - becuz I LIKE the gameplay of ACB & ACR both.
What I do find is the writing is lacking & that's a valid issue.

The game can only follow a good or mediocre story. In my own review I mentioned the potential w/ Sofia - it was totally untapped.
They could have done SO much with that & it stayed blah.

The effects of those Cristina memories in ACB was at least something to bring more into the story to look into.
There really wasn't any of that in ACR.

We only got Ezio telling Claudia via letter how he felt about Sofia.

So I do agree the writing needs more ampage.

But I come from an FPS background & I have to say, I like taking down enemies alot.

Oh ps., I just rented Saints Row 2 last month - I played it a couple days & took it back out. Not into that altho some stuff was pretty funny.
(in a sad way lol)
Not sure I see AC going that way tho.

Dagio12
12-12-2011, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Sarari:
The dialogue was corny and cheesy. Same goes to ACR, when Ezio gave that little speech after Yusuf died. How he talked about not crossing the assassins.

3. Getting very unrealistic in so many ways, it's becoming like Saints Row 2 & 3.


First off, some of the dialog in ACR is BY FAR better AC1. The last few dialog pieces were brilliant. As far as the Yusuf deal goes.. well, I don't think it was that cheesy. It was there to really paint us a picture of Ezio's anger towards the enemies. I dont think a long philosophical speech would have been all that appropriate.. but whatever.

and like saints row?? really??.... really??

SupremeCaptain
12-13-2011, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Animuses:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sarari:
Wrong direction. All I have to say. Agreed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also agree.

PhiIs1618033
12-13-2011, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by SF2themax:
First off, some of the dialog in ACR is BY FAR better AC1.

Whu-wha-whe-what? AC1's dialog is amazing. Did you even listen? Because, seriously, it's awesome.

ProdiGurl
12-13-2011, 12:26 PM
Could I ask you or someone who prefers the AC1 stuff to put together a List (of course I'm sure it will be a very short one)
of the stuff from ACB & ACR that you DO like & would like to keep included so it's in one spot instead of scattered thru conversion for pages?

I'm trying to put together what one group prefers over the others - and also at least what you can "tolerate" as a new addition.
Stuff you may not love, but it doesn't ruin anything either. (ie. it can be ignored or not use it much).

I'm curious to see how much of AC1 is actually wanted by some fans.
thanks if anybody could add something like that to this convo for more clarity/understanding.

Dagio12
12-13-2011, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by PhiIs1618033...:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SF2themax:
First off, some of the dialog in ACR is BY FAR better AC1.

Whu-wha-whe-what? AC1's dialog is amazing. Did you even listen? Because, seriously, it's awesome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did. I am playing it and LISTENING to it right now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I do think some of dialog in AC1 is excellent. Some of the best in the series, but the impact that some of Ezio's dialog (escpecially at the end of Revelations) had was better IMO. ACR hit some emotional buttons that AC1 just doesnt do ( which is fair, considering the story). but to try and say ACR is cheesy is just not accurate. I believe that ACR did a great job with some of its dialog and I only put "some" of it ahead of AC1 because it really felt meaningful, deep, philosophical, AND emotional, as well as very nicely delivered and presented... So overall, thats why i said that. I wasnt trying to knock AC1 down. Because it is great. ( although sometimes, after replaying it so much, I feel like they "try to hard" to be deep... lol).. if that makes any sense

OculusRed
12-13-2011, 01:36 PM
To the OP

I'm not sure about the gameplay aspect, but I do think that some of your problems will be solved by the introduction of a new setting and protagonist.

luckyto
12-13-2011, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by OculusRed:
To the OP

I'm not sure about the gameplay aspect, but I do think that some of your problems will be solved by the introduction of a new setting and protagonist.

Honestly, no. Not even close. Story has almost nothing to do with the franchise drifting from its roots. It's all gameplay. Story is just the window curtains.

SixKeys
12-13-2011, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
Could I ask you or someone who prefers the AC1 stuff to put together a List (of course I'm sure it will be a very short one)
of the stuff from ACB & ACR that you DO like & would like to keep included so it's in one spot instead of scattered thru conversion for pages?

AC1 is still my favorite of the series with Brotherhood as a close second. The main reason I like AC1 is because of its atmosphere. None of the games that have followed were able to capture that to the same level. If you look at the graphics, the facial animations and such may look dated, but there is a certain gritty realism to the textures and washed-out colors. Altaïr in Revelations looked much more cartoony than in AC1 due to the brightened up colors (I'm talking about his robes, not the face).

I'm not averse to the AC series taking risks and evolving. AC2 did a lot of things right. It may have changed the direction of the series radically, but even though I prefer AC1 over AC2, I won't argue that they added some major improvements. The story and characters have more depth and linearity, AC1 was more like a series of events and philosophical musings thinly connected. AC1 was atmosphere-driven, AC2 was story-driven. That's the major difference. In the same vein you could say ACB was action-driven: there was a lot more focus on Ezio's new gadgets (Leonardo's machines, parachutes, poison darts etc.), kill streaks and the multi-player.

ACR? I'm not even sure. Money-driven? I hate to say that, because I think the atmosphere in ACR was the closest they've gotten to the feel of AC1. Constantinople and Cappadocia were beautiful and much more varied than Rome in ACB. As others have pointed out though, upgrading shops and landmarks really served no story purpose this time. Constantinople felt (and was) smaller than Rome and there was less to do. The characters were forgettable and bland and the story was very simplistic. Granted, so was Brotherhood's, but at least we had some interesting side characters and some truly memorable moments.

It's unlikely that Ubisoft will ever go back to what made AC1 so different from the sequels. The course has, for the most part, been set. I was fine with AC2 and ACB, but ACR was a letdown. It felt rushed and not very innovative compared to the other two. What I'm hoping for is that AC3 has been in development since AC2 and that ACB and ACR were sort of used as "testing grounds" for new mechanics (which ones were popular, which ones didn't work). Each game since the first one has added something new and the features that worked were more finely tuned in the next instalment. The Flying Machine from AC2 evolved into Leonardo's war machines in ACB. That was a concept that worked okay in AC2 (the mission itself is a pain in the a$$) but it evolved and was used better in ACB. Same with the assassin recruits in ACB and ACR. On the other hand, I doubt we'll see another Den Defense in future AC games, judging by how unpopular it's been. The devs are trying new things through trial and error. Hopefully they're spending their time listening to the fans' feedback, and maybe by the time AC3 rolls around they'll have perfected some of the already good features and gotten rid of the bad ones. For all the improvements, the games have been getting kinda repetitive for the past few parts, though. To really "wow" us with AC3, they need to introduce some truly new concepts and give us a good, deep story again, like in AC2.

OculusRed
12-13-2011, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by luckyto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OculusRed:
To the OP

I'm not sure about the gameplay aspect, but I do think that some of your problems will be solved by the introduction of a new setting and protagonist.

Honestly, no. Not even close. Story has almost nothing to do with the franchise drifting from its roots. It's all gameplay. Story is just the window curtains. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Then read the OP again. Complaints of scope, not just about gameplay spanning multiple cities but that the story spanned from Ezio going from birth to a great assassin.

Story is much more important than mere window curtains btw.

deadly_thought
12-13-2011, 02:22 PM
wont buy AC3 theyve put me off for good no soup for you ubi

ProdiGurl
12-13-2011, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by OculusRed:
To the OP

I'm not sure about the gameplay aspect, but I do think that some of your problems will be solved by the introduction of a new setting and protagonist.

I might get disagreed with on this, but this is partly what I'm suspecting...
I notice the 2 games people seem to prefer as favorites are the 2 that introduce a new Protagonist & new Vibe w/ fresh new direction in story line.

When ACB & ACR came around, alot of the interest wavered. That's partially why I think AC3 stands a better chance of being liked.

But I can't ignore the other issues being argued - it's not ALL newness of story/character. Just that I think it's an aspect involved.

I think people were ready to be done w/ Ezio

PhiIs1618033
12-13-2011, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
Could I ask you or someone who prefers the AC1 stuff to put together a List (of course I'm sure it will be a very short one)
of the stuff from ACB & ACR that you DO like & would like to keep included so it's in one spot instead of scattered thru conversion for pages?

I'm trying to put together what one group prefers over the others - and also at least what you can "tolerate" as a new addition.
Stuff you may not love, but it doesn't ruin anything either. (ie. it can be ignored or not use it much).

I'm curious to see how much of AC1 is actually wanted by some fans.
thanks if anybody could add something like that to this convo for more clarity/understanding.
I don't think you can just pile all of us into a single group. We all have different ideas of what the perfect AC game should be like.

ProdiGurl
12-13-2011, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by deadly_thought:
wont buy AC3 theyve put me off for good no soup for you ubi

That's ok, I just bought ACR this aft.
Couldn't resist Amazons vid games sale. I had rented it for a month & played the heck out of it to know if I'd want it or not.

Sarari
12-13-2011, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by SF2themax:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sarari:
The dialogue was corny and cheesy. Same goes to ACR, when Ezio gave that little speech after Yusuf died. How he talked about not crossing the assassins.

3. Getting very unrealistic in so many ways, it's becoming like Saints Row 2 & 3.


First off, some of the dialog in ACR is BY FAR better AC1. The last few dialog pieces were brilliant. As far as the Yusuf deal goes.. well, I don't think it was that cheesy. It was there to really paint us a picture of Ezio's anger towards the enemies. I dont think a long philosophical speech would have been all that appropriate.. but whatever.

and like saints row?? really??.... really?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, it is like Saints Row. How is it possible that at their time, or even now, someone just jumps off a roof and pulls out a parachute out of nowhere. It makes no sense. They have to many things to fall back on when you're about to fail in ACB and ACR, such as Medicine and the parachutes.

The writing is bad. End of story for me. They don't have to add something philosophical in every cut scene, but when you put something corny like most of Ezio's out-of-nowhere speeches, then it has to stop. Or when they try and make it dramatic when they show the end of ACR and all Desmond says is "I know what to do...". I mean, the speech Ezio did in the end was great, but when he touched Desmond, I was like really....don't over do it. It was perfect.

They really, really, really need to bring back the old writers, because they knew what they were doing. Now, the new writers only write about Ezio being angry and being bolder and wiser than everyone else. He's not a super hero. He's an assassin, a human.

And corny or cheesy may not be the best words to describe it to well, but my vocabulary isn't that good. I think for now, those words suit it perfectly.

ProdiGurl
12-13-2011, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by PhiIs1618033...:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
Could I ask you or someone who prefers the AC1 stuff to put together a List (of course I'm sure it will be a very short one)
of the stuff from ACB & ACR that you DO like & would like to keep included so it's in one spot instead of scattered thru conversion for pages?

I'm trying to put together what one group prefers over the others - and also at least what you can "tolerate" as a new addition.
Stuff you may not love, but it doesn't ruin anything either. (ie. it can be ignored or not use it much).

I'm curious to see how much of AC1 is actually wanted by some fans.
thanks if anybody could add something like that to this convo for more clarity/understanding.
I don't think you can just pile all of us into a single group. We all have different ideas of what the perfect AC game should be like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I didn't mean for it to seem that way - the "us & them" thing or that you ALL share the same likes/dislikes.

I like to try to understand people's views & try to find solutions . .
So then some of you disagree on the ACB/ACR additions/changes.
?

ProdiGurl
12-13-2011, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by SixKeys:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
Could I ask you or someone who prefers the AC1 stuff to put together a List (of course I'm sure it will be a very short one)
of the stuff from ACB & ACR that you DO like & would like to keep included so it's in one spot instead of scattered thru conversion for pages?

AC1 is still my favorite of the series with Brotherhood as a close second. The main reason I like AC1 is because of its atmosphere. None of the games that have followed were able to capture that to the same level. If you look at the graphics, the facial animations and such may look dated, but there is a certain gritty realism to the textures and washed-out colors. Altaïr in Revelations looked much more cartoony than in AC1 due to the brightened up colors (I'm talking about his robes, not the face).

I'm not averse to the AC series taking risks and evolving. AC2 did a lot of things right. It may have changed the direction of the series radically, but even though I prefer AC1 over AC2, I won't argue that they added some major improvements. The story and characters have more depth and linearity, AC1 was more like a series of events and philosophical musings thinly connected. AC1 was atmosphere-driven, AC2 was story-driven. That's the major difference. In the same vein you could say ACB was action-driven: there was a lot more focus on Ezio's new gadgets (Leonardo's machines, parachutes, poison darts etc.), kill streaks and the multi-player.

ACR? I'm not even sure. Money-driven? I hate to say that, because I think the atmosphere in ACR was the closest they've gotten to the feel of AC1. Constantinople and Cappadocia were beautiful and much more varied than Rome in ACB. As others have pointed out though, upgrading shops and landmarks really served no story purpose this time. Constantinople felt (and was) smaller than Rome and there was less to do. The characters were forgettable and bland and the story was very simplistic. Granted, so was Brotherhood's, but at least we had some interesting side characters and some truly memorable moments.

It's unlikely that Ubisoft will ever go back to what made AC1 so different from the sequels. The course has, for the most part, been set. I was fine with AC2 and ACB, but ACR was a letdown. It felt rushed and not very innovative compared to the other two. What I'm hoping for is that AC3 has been in development since AC2 and that ACB and ACR were sort of used as "testing grounds" for new mechanics (which ones were popular, which ones didn't work). Each game since the first one has added something new and the features that worked were more finely tuned in the next instalment. The Flying Machine from AC2 evolved into Leonardo's war machines in ACB. That was a concept that worked okay in AC2 (the mission itself is a pain in the a$$) but it evolved and was used better in ACB. Same with the assassin recruits in ACB and ACR. On the other hand, I doubt we'll see another Den Defense in future AC games, judging by how unpopular it's been. The devs are trying new things through trial and error. Hopefully they're spending their time listening to the fans' feedback, and maybe by the time AC3 rolls around they'll have perfected some of the already good features and gotten rid of the bad ones. For all the improvements, the games have been getting kinda repetitive for the past few parts, though. To really "wow" us with AC3, they need to introduce some truly new concepts and give us a good, deep story again, like in AC2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to comment first, I read your feedback posts from the other day & agreed on your story weakness points - they were well thought out and I felt you were honest in them, not just wanting to rag at Ubi.


The one thing I had said too was the Sofia story . . that one let me down. I expected much more from that.

& I agree that while this story was good, the writing was just under-whelming until a few exciting moments in the later sequences. But it should be alot more than that.

The Tarik twist was a good surprise . . & I loved that whole mission w/ the Janissaries.

But anyways, I agree with and share your same issues even tho I don't have the same scope of knowledge to base all of it on - just ACII-ACR.

If the missions weren't perfectly aimed towards my skill level (moderate/average) & the missions weren't so fun w/ the new toys I experimented with . . and if I didn't love Ezio's character, & new Master Assassin/recruit tweaks, I'd probably be more unhappy.

And thanks for this reply to my Q. too.

Nomad86x
12-14-2011, 10:30 AM
I feel I should throw in my concerns too. I agree that while Revelations was good, it was lacking in the same atmosphere that has sucked me into the AC Universe. I loved aspects like the Desmond Journey, probably my favorite part of the game, but that doesn't make up for some (what I think are) major plot holes. For example, Subject 16. Every "appearance" of his has been one that show a mind in complete turmoil, weighed down immensely by the burden of overbearing knowledge. I mean, he painted the walls with his blood to show us the secrets. All those symbols on the wall obviously have significance, and we've only remotely tapped into the meaning of them all. Then on to the glyphs in ACII and ACB, again showing us that he's penetrated the veil that clouds all the truth and information in the story and history of the world. Without him, we wouldn't have seen that glimpse of Adam and Eve, or learned so much about the Pieces of Eden and the struggle between the Assassins and Templars that has been around for 10,0000+ years. (What comes to mind for me is the Cain & Abel glyph, that to me is still shrouded in mystery, or the Templar fixation for the "Father of Understanding"). So after all that he's discovered, you would think he would be in the most urgent of moods to speak to Desmond or someone to convey the knowledge to. He certainly seemed to when he appeared to Desmond in the .exe file. But we meet him, and he's just sitting there . . . "Sup, Desmond?" Not a word about all that he's discovered

I'm not asking for dictionary definitions for everything he's discovered (Nor should there be any, always nice to keep some mystery in the plot), but Christ Almighty, the man bled out his entire body and painted symbols in his OWN BLOOD! Shouldn't that at least warrant a "DESMOND! DUDE! GOTTA TELL YOU SOMETHING!!!"

Instead we see a bored, complacent S16, who has no desire to reveal any secrets or any information. I doubt we've seen the end of him or his secrets, but I was expecting more if we were going face-to-face.

And personally for me, there's a different feel to the story . . it just didn't feel the same entirely. . Like, in ACI especially, ACII, and ACB, I got chills from the story and way it was crafted. There was a sense of urgency and a serious tone to the story. I think I was drawn to two things in AC. The philosophical and poetic approach - that was what struck me about the very first game - it was grave, serious, but not depressing. My favorite portions were the discussions with Al-Mualim and when there was serious dialogue taking place. The other portion that I loved about this series (being a history fanatic) was the way that they created a unique and unified story through time, borrowing aspects from mythology, religion, legends, and actual historical doctrine that was different, unique, but completely believable all the same.

I feel like I'm ranting on so I'm going to stop http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, but I just felt the same way about the series, I needed to let it out. There's a different atmosphere to the story, and I'm apprehensive about how/where it is going to go. Not that I didn't enjoy Revelations, but the portions that drew me to this series are lacking as of late. The nostalgia for me came from moments like the S16 glyphs, painting a picture that was incomplete(intentionally) of the story, but with a serious tone of foreboding, or when we travel from the Colosseum to the Santa Maria in Aracoeli, and Shaun is just like "So yea, supposedly there was once a Roman temple to the god Juno under the foundations of this church" - then I geeked out.

K, time to shut up! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Dagio12
12-14-2011, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Sarari:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SF2themax:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sarari:
The dialogue was corny and cheesy. Same goes to ACR, when Ezio gave that little speech after Yusuf died. How he talked about not crossing the assassins.

3. Getting very unrealistic in so many ways, it's becoming like Saints Row 2 & 3.


First off, some of the dialog in ACR is BY FAR better AC1. The last few dialog pieces were brilliant. As far as the Yusuf deal goes.. well, I don't think it was that cheesy. It was there to really paint us a picture of Ezio's anger towards the enemies. I dont think a long philosophical speech would have been all that appropriate.. but whatever.

and like saints row?? really??.... really?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, it is like Saints Row. How is it possible that at their time, or even now, someone just jumps off a roof and pulls out a parachute out of nowhere. It makes no sense. They have to many things to fall back on when you're about to fail in ACB and ACR, such as Medicine and the parachutes.

The writing is bad. End of story for me. They don't have to add something philosophical in every cut scene, but when you put something corny like most of Ezio's out-of-nowhere speeches, then it has to stop. Or when they try and make it dramatic when they show the end of ACR and all Desmond says is "I know what to do...". I mean, the speech Ezio did in the end was great, but when he touched Desmond, I was like really....don't over do it. It was perfect.

They really, really, really need to bring back the old writers, because they knew what they were doing. Now, the new writers only write about Ezio being angry and being bolder and wiser than everyone else. He's not a super hero. He's an assassin, a human.

And corny or cheesy may not be the best words to describe it to well, but my vocabulary isn't that good. I think for now, those words suit it perfectly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well agree to disagree i guess. I didnt really find anything to be that cheesy, but to each there own. Again, as far as the parachute goes... well, the idea behind the parachute has been around even before the dates of brotherhood, by Leonardo, and although whats in the game is a little more "reasonable" to earlier depiction... its kind of accepted that some of leos inventions in the game actually worked properly (its a game, they can do that).. and I dont feel they need to have Ezio walk around with a backpack to help you feel more comfortable with the idea that he can carry a parachute. Its kind of implied that he carries it in his back pouch, which he has on him. I dont need to to "see" him actually open his pouch, grab the strings to the cute and literally swing it open.. its not necessary. If you really dont like it, then dont buy any parachutes.

As far as the story goes, well, im not gonna argue, you have your opinion and i respect it.

SixKeys
12-14-2011, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Nomad86x:
I feel I should throw in my concerns too. I agree that while Revelations was good, it was lacking in the same atmosphere that has sucked me into the AC Universe. I loved aspects like the Desmond Journey, probably my favorite part of the game, but that doesn't make up for some (what I think are) major plot holes. For example, Subject 16. Every "appearance" of his has been one that show a mind in complete turmoil, weighed down immensely by the burden of overbearing knowledge. I mean, he painted the walls with his blood to show us the secrets. All those symbols on the wall obviously have significance, and we've only remotely tapped into the meaning of them all. Then on to the glyphs in ACII and ACB, again showing us that he's penetrated the veil that clouds all the truth and information in the story and history of the world. Without him, we wouldn't have seen that glimpse of Adam and Eve, or learned so much about the Pieces of Eden and the struggle between the Assassins and Templars that has been around for 10,0000+ years. (What comes to mind for me is the Cain & Abel glyph, that to me is still shrouded in mystery, or the Templar fixation for the "Father of Understanding"). So after all that he's discovered, you would think he would be in the most urgent of moods to speak to Desmond or someone to convey the knowledge to. He certainly seemed to when he appeared to Desmond in the .exe file. But we meet him, and he's just sitting there . . . "Sup, Desmond?" Not a word about all that he's discovered

Good points. I totally agree about Subject 16. He felt like an entirely different character in ACR. In previous games he's always been clearly on the verge of a meltdown, stuttering, laughing, raging and crying while trying to keep himself together. Now suddenly he appears all calm and collected and without any sense of urgency. Desmond seemed pretty unmoved by their meeting, too. You would think he'd be a lot more humbled and awed to finally meet this guy who left bloody messages all over his room and told him cryptic messages about the future, yet he was just kind of: "Huh. It's you. I thought you'd be ginger." I kept waiting for S16 to appear to guide Desmond in cut scenes between the Ezio missions, maybe as an off-screen voice to help him solve some puzzles like Shaun or Rebecca in previous games, but he only appeared maybe three times in the whole game to chit-chat about unimportant stuff. After all the build-up about finally meeting him, he turned out to be remarkably pointless.

BTW, I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who loved the Desmond's journey missions in ACR. At first the FPS perspective was a little alienating, but the art design in those levels was just fantastic.

D.I.D.
12-14-2011, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by ProdiGurl:


I might get disagreed with on this, but this is partly what I'm suspecting...
I notice the 2 games people seem to prefer as favorites are the 2 that introduce a new Protagonist & new Vibe w/ fresh new direction in story line.

When ACB & ACR came around, alot of the interest wavered. That's partially why I think AC3 stands a better chance of being liked.

But I can't ignore the other issues being argued - it's not ALL newness of story/character. Just that I think it's an aspect involved.

I think people were ready to be done w/ Ezio

I don't think that's it at all. The expectation for this game was at fever pitch, with people clamouring for Ubisoft to please take our money now, but it delivered in a few ways and disappointed in many others. If people were simply over the character then that would have been marked in the run-up to release.

I'm sure a new protagonist will create a lot of interest too, especially if they kill off D Miles in the process.

D.I.D.
12-14-2011, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Sarari:

Yes, it is like Saints Row. How is it possible that at their time, or even now, someone just jumps off a roof and pulls out a parachute out of nowhere. It makes no sense. They have to many things to fall back on when you're about to fail in ACB and ACR, such as Medicine and the parachutes.

This is very important. We could fall too far and still live, the parachutes were another safety net, and then the hookblade removed a lot of the danger too.

One of my favourite things about this series is the way it triggers your fear of heights. In every title until now, you've had the heart-in-mouth feeling of running at top speed and leaping between rooftops, and most importantly barely grabbing ledges with your fingertips. Seeing the character just about grab the ledge and swing slightly used to get me every time. For some reason, perhaps because it is a sort of machine, I trust the hookblade too much. I don't feel that lurching tension anymore.