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XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 08:49 PM
Is this going to be fixed?

Pilots could not hear this over the sound of their engine.



S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 08:49 PM
Is this going to be fixed?

Pilots could not hear this over the sound of their engine.



S!
609IAP_Recon

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XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 09:03 PM
WHAT?


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XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 09:04 PM
That and sounds of the battle as well...such as MG and cannon fire from 5 clicks away. Hope it will be fixed.

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XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 09:06 PM
Yes, I too remember reading an interview with a WWII ace (Finnish?) and when asked if he could hear the sound of other airplanes outside his cockpit, he said no, his own engine was too loud.

So yeah, I think it's overdone ATM. Not sure if it'll be changed though.

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 09:10 PM
It is ear candy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



serious... would you like hearing the monotonous sound of your own engine the whole time and occasionally, only the rumble of your own weapons firing?



Anyhow, I just might give my right hand for a properly working sound-engine in FB anyways...

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2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 11:48 PM
if the planes are really close, yeah i'd like to hear em, but im tired of hearing engine sounds/mg & cannon fire/ ships shooting/bombs blowing up/ or planes crahsing from ridiculous distances. it ruins the immersiveness.

i hear an engine and i think, uh-oh someones right on my butt, only to look around and see he's not close at all.

im sure its just a sound bug, and they'll fix it, but its definately annoying.

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 03:15 AM
Hmmmmm I guess that was one reason why most air to air kills were from the unseen bounce..you couldnt hear them either...although..I do remember reading some accounts of pilots being alerted by the sounds of rounds hitting thier plane.

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 04:16 AM
At least the current FB setup is an improvement over the original IL-2, where the user could alter the sound attenuation distance.

Also there are accounts of pilots who did hear an enemy airplane from the cockpit, but these are isolated cases, and only occur at an extremely close distance (~<100m).

http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb06894.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb57471.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb11726.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb75733.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80477.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb64472.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb59442.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80347.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb73057.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb48642.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 04:23 AM
Guys, refer to these threads in ORR...

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvcqv

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zuvmb

It's an important issue if you are more into recreating more of the "sim" aspects of flight combat than the "game" aspects.

Without the bounce you really don't have the most important combat tactic. You could refer to Eric Hartmann's experiences for more information, or numerous other sources for that matter.

cheers!



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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 04:41 AM
http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/Afrika.htm


"Unknown to any of us, at least three FW 190s were coming up off the 'deck' from behind to attack us ... I was just barely past Woody [Thomas] when I heard guns and upon looking toward him I discovered he was already on fire and, without uttering a word, he crashed to the ground about 500 feet below".

Looks like you can still hear something but most of the time is too late.

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 04:46 AM
By the way, if you check the stuff at this site you don't think the FW-190 is Uber /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/Index.html

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 05:10 AM
StG77_Fennec wrote:
- At least the current FB setup is an improvement over
- the original IL-2, where the user could alter the
- sound attenuation distance.
-

Actually, there is still a setting called "attenuation" in the "sound" section of the conf.ini file where the user can alter this distance seemingly just as in IL-2 - it's just buried away where most folks won't find it.

I set it to 2 or 3 and got rid of the gigantic flak explosion noises (at least muted them down to an acceptable volume), though I still was hearing all sorts of external stuff that I don't believe it makes sense to be hearing. Then, after several blissful missions without them, the giganto flak booms came back last night, even with this "attenuation" setting down at 2, so I just dropped back to FB 1.0 and am awaiting the next patch/fix.



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Die Stukas, die Stukas, die Stukas.

... "Stuka-Lied"

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 06:01 AM
I hope it stays the same and realistic. You people who think you can creep on and ac a couple meters away with full trottle and not being able to be heard are sadly mistaken.

What needs to be changed is the fake unrealistic stick yanking stallsnap moves when ones on thier 6


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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 04:32 PM
If people could hear engines, then the 80% went down in combat who never knew what hit him, wouldn't exist in the first place.

Think about it. 1800~2000hp engine placed two feet in front of you, with only a thin metal sheet and dashboard compartment separating you and the engine.

Sure, the planes and guns are loud. But are those planes and gunfire 200~300 meters away, louder enough to be distinctively heard, over an engine and gun that is right in front of you?

Either it's a freak-of-nature ultra-doppler effect, or total bogus. I'm betting on the latter.






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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 04:36 PM
"You people who think you can creep on and ac a couple meters away with full trottle and not being able to be heard are sadly mistaken."

This isn't a few meters we are talking here, I can hear beyond 500m without any problem



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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 07:51 PM
gutted_666 wrote:
- if the planes are really close, yeah i'd like to
- hear em, but im tired of hearing engine sounds/mg &
- cannon fire/ ships shooting/bombs blowing up/ or
- planes crahsing from ridiculous distances. it ruins
- the immersiveness.
-
- i hear an engine and i think, uh-oh someones right
- on my butt, only to look around and see he's not
- close at all.
-
- im sure its just a sound bug, and they'll fix it,
- but its definately annoying.
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-
-
You can hear it while in the map screen of an online game but, never ever as you fly. At least, not the way you describe.


Okay, AAA often causes big explosions, no wonder you hear them. Other aircraft's engines can be heard but, they need to be really close in. You might wanna tweak some of your sound-settings?

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 08:05 PM
~S! Turn up master volume all the way up. And object volume down . Solved my problem on the situation.

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 08:12 PM
I too hope for this to be fixed. You shouln't be able to hear another a/c unless it's practically right on top of you.

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 08:41 PM
I think this left-over from il2 still works in FB!!
Remember when they had an Attenuation dial in the settings?

In conf.ini file under [sound] put:

Attenuation=7

This is the default.
Turn it down to 1 and you can't hear the other aircraft unless they are right beside you. Turn it up to allow yourself to hear planes further away.

It seems to work for me. I have turned it down to 2 because of this damn 'engine dampening' bug; now at least their engine isn't ten times louder than mine!

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 02:28 AM
I tried this a while back, and it did improve things (actually made them tolerable and muted the giganto flak booms for a few missions), but then the big booms were back again for no apparent reason.

It is worth a try if you haven't done it already though - it did work for a while at least.



Wir sind die schwarzen Husaren der Luft,
Die Stukas, die Stukas, die Stukas.

... "Stuka-Lied"

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 03:59 AM
antifreeze wrote:
-
-
- I think this left-over from il2 still works in FB!!
- Remember when they had an Attenuation dial in the
- settings?
-
- In conf.ini file under [sound] put:
-
- Attenuation=7
-
- This is the default.
- Turn it down to 1 and you can't hear the other
- aircraft unless they are right beside you. Turn it
- up to allow yourself to hear planes further away.
-
- It seems to work for me. I have turned it down to 2
- because of this damn 'engine dampening' bug; now at
- least their engine isn't ten times louder than mine!


No offense meant but you're missing the point though. It's nice that you can turn other engines down for YOU, but how does that help you to use the bounce as a tactic against someone else?

How can you bounce somebody who uses sonar to hear you from 500+ metres away? And that means turning your attenuation UP would let you hear even farther...nice exploit.

So I guess this would make it an exploit too.



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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 10:31 AM
Yep, it is a known exploit I think.
You can crank that attenuation number up and hear planes and other sounds from a hundred kilometres away.

I guess that's why Maddox took the dial away, because everyone had different attenuation and so different advantage or disadvantage. Now everyone has it set at 7 by default.

All that needs changed in the program is to simply set the default a bit lower, and to make sure that the 'attenuation' entry in the conf.ini file doesn't work.

But I play with it set low anyway because it annoys me so much to hear other engines so far away; I'm not sure if that is realistic of not, but it sure doesn't feel right. Setting it low puts me at a disadvantage to most people regarding bouncing I guess, but I would rather have the extra emersion that this setting brings even though it means I have to watch my six a little more. I also turn radio comms down so I can just make out what my squad are saying above the engigne noise; it just makes it feel right, for me anyway.

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 11:09 AM
There are alos opposite statements. E.g. one of the B17 pilots told (one of the posts in this forum had a link to that site) that once a P47 dived after a BF109 in front of the B17. The pilot said that the sound of the P47 was so loud that he couldn't hear the sound from B17's own engines.

On the other hand some A/C in FB should be modeled further. E.g. the open canopy planes need to have the sound of wind modeled better.

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 02:15 PM
There are two aspects of sound to think about: volume (decibels) and pitch (hertz).
It's the decibels that are wrong in the game; they haven't got the correct (natural) ratio with distance (attenuation). It's even more complicated because low sounds travel much further than high sounds, don't reflect/refract as much, and also travel through different mediums more easily. That's a lot that can't be modelled by today's computers and sound cards, so the best we can get is a rough estimation I think.

But if these aspects *were* fixed, IMO it would still be possible to hear engines 100 metres away if they were a different pitch. For instance, a bomber is very loud at low pitches, but produces nothing at higher pitches. Well, a whine of a diving plane behind you would 'fill that pitch gap' so to speak; it wouldn't need to be louder than the bomber. The pitch would just be added to the sound you already hear, and you would notice it even though it was quieter in decibels. That's what I think, anyway. Make sense?

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 02:38 PM
Man, the sound is a problem now I agree. Other night I almost wet myself after i flew over howitzers firing, sounded like they were next to me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:25 PM
What are the pilots doing outside of their aircraft in the first place? Did they bail out? If so I think they should be able to hear aircraft. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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