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View Full Version : Massive contradiction? *SPOILERS*



john63
11-22-2010, 12:53 AM
I think I found a major plothole in ACB's story, I just want to see if there's anything I'm missing that would explain it.

****MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD.****

In AC:B, the modern assassins want to find Ezio's Apple of Eden, to get the map to the temples.
Ezio stole that apple from the templars, after they'd picked it up from Cyprus, right?
And the apple had gotten to Cyprus after Altair hid it there, correct?
So the Apple from AC1 should be the same as from AC2. (and Ezio's portions of ACB.)
But there's a problem. According to Lucy, Altair/Ezio's apple was destroyed in the Denver accident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...B127554AC08&index=31 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te_ATm9VvwA&playnext=1&list=PL29380B127554AC08&index=31)

So... how did Lucy expect to be able to find it? I've brought this up before, some people said Lucy only wanted to access the apple through Ezio's memories, not in a physical, modern-day form, but the ending of AC:B proves otherwise. They were looking for the actual, modern-day apple. WTF????? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

MetalSnake712
11-22-2010, 01:07 AM
But I thought the Denver accident was not the apple of eden, but another piece of eden device.

MetalSnake712
11-22-2010, 01:17 AM
Just found this on Assassin's Creed Wikia.

"Following the destruction of the second Piece of Eden during experimental use at Denver International Airport, the Knights Templar found themselves in need of another artifact with similar properties. Needing access to a map that indicated the location of all Pieces of Eden, the Templar front company Abstergo Industries kidnapped the descendant of Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad – Desmond Miles – in order to view the memories of his ancestor. This would allow them to view the very same map Altaïr had viewed in 1191."

john63
11-22-2010, 01:19 AM
I'm pretty sure it was the apple. Start watching the video at 2:04. "The artifact from masyaf" must be Altair's apple, right?

MetalSnake712
11-22-2010, 01:26 AM
You do know that there is more than 1 apple of eden.

"The first, second, third, fourth and fifth Apples' were all capable of controlling the minds of men, creating illusions and, to a degree, permited physical control over said minds[2]; the Apples could all be used in conjunction with the Staff of Eden, which increased the abilities of both Pieces"

and also another fact

There are currently 50 pieces of eden according to all the locations revealed by the codexes in AC2. 1 already found by Desmond under the Collseum of Rome. However "The other two that made up the last of the 50 pieces, one of the Apples and the Staff, were destroyed in the DIA Satellite Incident and the Tunguska blast respectively"

One of the apples plus the staff was destoryed during in Denver International Airport and the Tunguska.

DeSabellis
11-22-2010, 06:47 AM
There are a lot of contradictions from AC1 to ACB. Lucy found Vidic's pen in the parking lot, but yet she claimed to be a captive and unable to escape. She had an apartment as well. She was there when other subjects were abused and executed, but was soft on Desmond. Incidentally she filed a report to Vidic about subjects 12-16; she had ample time to figure out the bleeding effect. She also stopped Vidic from killing Desmond because she had a feeling that he had to be used to activate the POE or the safeguards that protected it.

In the Truth clusters in ACB, it claims that Abstergo is not a publicly traded company in that they do not sell stock, but yet they have a CEO. A CEO is elected by a board of directors who hold a plurality of the stock in a company. Abstergo could have a president/executive, but not a CEO if they do not sell stock.

And it was said they would begin 'closing doors' in ACB. Whats the point when they opened all the windows?

john63
11-22-2010, 08:18 AM
@MetalSnake: Agreed. I know that there are at least 66 pieces of eden (#66 is the shroud), at least 5 of which are apples. And I know that the staff was destroyed at tunkuska, and that one of the apples was destroyed at Denver International Airport. No one's denying either of those things.

What I'm saying is, this history of the Apple:

http://assassinscreed.wikia.co...he_Apple%27s_Journey (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/The_Apple%27s_Journey)

conflicts with the video in my first post. The Denver apple and the Juno apple should be the same one, unless I'm missing something.

@DeSabellis: Lucy was probably pretending to be unable to escape, in order to maintain her cover in Abstergo. Her apartment was probably somewhere inside the Abstergo building, or in some other building they control.
Her report to Vidic, regarding the bleeding effect, was probably the first time she understood exactly why Animus patients were going insane. She talks like it's something he hadn't realized before. This probably explains why she wanted to go softer on Desmond. That, plus she was just trying to delay the templars for as long as possible.
Not entirely sure why she chose to escape with Desmond, instead of any of the other subjects; maybe because the templars finally found what they'd been looking for (the map), and Lucy finally understood Abstergo's plan with the satellite, and she decided that she had to act NOW. (The assassins were asking about the purpose of the launch, so we can assume that Lucy had only recently uncovered this information.)

Regarding the truth files... Hmm... maybe at the time of that phone recording you're referencing, Abstergo wasn't a publicly traded company yet, but by 2012, it had created its front as a drug company, and started trading stock? IDK.

"Closing doors?" I don't remember them saying that... when did they say it?

DeSabellis
11-22-2010, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by john63:
@MetalSnake: Agreed. I know that there are at least 66 pieces of eden (#66 is the shroud), at least 5 of which are apples. And I know that the staff was destroyed at tunkuska, and that one of the apples was destroyed at Denver International Airport. No one's denying either of those things.

What I'm saying is, this history of the Apple:

http://assassinscreed.wikia.co...he_Apple%27s_Journey (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/The_Apple%27s_Journey)

conflicts with the video in my first post. The Denver apple and the Juno apple should be the same one, unless I'm missing something.

@DeSabellis: Lucy was probably pretending to be unable to escape, in order to maintain her cover in Abstergo. Her apartment was probably somewhere inside the Abstergo building, or in some other building they control.
Her report to Vidic, regarding the bleeding effect, was probably the first time she understood exactly why Animus patients were going insane. She talks like it's something he hadn't realized before. This probably explains why she wanted to go softer on Desmond. That, plus she was just trying to delay the templars for as long as possible.
Not entirely sure why she chose to escape with Desmond, instead of any of the other subjects; maybe because the templars finally found what they'd been looking for (the map), and Lucy finally understood Abstergo's plan with the satellite, and she decided that she had to act NOW. (The assassins were asking about the purpose of the launch, so we can assume that Lucy had only recently uncovered this information.)

Regarding the truth files... Hmm... maybe at the time of that phone recording you're referencing, Abstergo wasn't a publicly traded company yet, but by 2012, it had created its front as a drug company, and started trading stock? IDK.

"Closing doors?" I don't remember them saying that... when did they say it?

Interviews for the game. I paraphrased it, but they hinted at solving the plot holes.

The phone call was also in 2004, and the man/author mentioned that the company was huge. Note that the CIA had recorded the call.

I realize that most the plot holes are probably just oversight and potentially hasty writing. I mean, how did Lucy know about Ezio, the vault, and the potential end of the world, but Vidic did not? While it's possible that Lucy lived on the premises, she had a car, she had an apartment, and when combined she most likely had to drive to her residence. Whether or not Abstergo owns that residence is outside the fact she wasn't as captive as she wanted to admit.

Did it really take four insane subjects for her to realize that they were... going insane? They knew.

john63
11-22-2010, 11:05 AM
Sure they know that subjects WERE going insane, maybe it took five subjects (12,13,14,15,16) for them to understand WHY.

And if you recall, the first time Desmond tried freerunning inside the assassin base, Lucy said she thought that Vidic knew about the vault. Vidic became obsessed with 16's Italian ancestors, but couldn't find info from the vault because 16's memories became more scrambled as he lost his mind. How Lucy knew the vault was THAT important, IDK, though...

Not trying to argue, there are definitely some inconsistencies, but I could conceivably find an explanation for any of them. They're not THAT inconsistent. This inconsistency, with using a destroyed piece of eden, is the first one where I can't justify it or figure it out somehow. Ubi had better get their story straight.

Geinref
11-22-2010, 01:37 PM
thats the first thing i thought when i got to the end, I thought the apple was destroyed. Lucy did say that in first game!

DeSabellis
11-22-2010, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by john63:
Sure they know that subjects WERE going insane, maybe it took five subjects (12,13,14,15,16) for them to understand WHY.

And if you recall, the first time Desmond tried freerunning inside the assassin base, Lucy said she thought that Vidic knew about the vault. Vidic became obsessed with 16's Italian ancestors, but couldn't find info from the vault because 16's memories became more scrambled as he lost his mind. How Lucy knew the vault was THAT important, IDK, though...

Not trying to argue, there are definitely some inconsistencies, but I could conceivably find an explanation for any of them. They're not THAT inconsistent. This inconsistency, with using a destroyed piece of eden, is the first one where I can't justify it or figure it out somehow. Ubi had better get their story straight.

I will make a joke: I would hope that they connected the giant bathtub (animus) to their subjects going insane.

I did forget about that part (vidic). I guess the problem is that we, the consumer, have to be creative to patch these holes. I hope that most of these plot threads are rectified in AC3.

As far as the piece of eden- I think we all agree that someone over looked that.

obliviondoll
11-22-2010, 06:46 PM
They specified that an artifact was found at Masyaf.

Never said it was the apple.

Krayus Korianis
11-22-2010, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
They specified that an artifact was found at Masyaf.

Never said it was the apple.

And as we all know, Altaïr hid the Apple he had on Cyrpus.

xsatanicjokerx
11-22-2010, 10:38 PM
I thought there were at least 5 apples

john63
11-23-2010, 12:24 AM
@DeSabellis: true, the Animus was clearly the cause, but I could see how a "bleeding effect" theory would take some time to formulate.

Like you said, it's up to us to work around these little plotholes, in order to stay interested. Up until now, I've been able to get over these little plotholes. But this PoE thing isn't a plothole, it's a plot canyon!

@obliviondoll: true, but desmond was asking about the one Altair found in AC1. At the time, he didn't even know there was more than one, right? I'd think Lucy would be referencing the apple... but true. Hmmm... maybe altair and gang found another one and hid it at masyaf.

@satanicjoker: there are, but in all of the games, we've only actually seen one of them.