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View Full Version : OT - Wulfy that CFS3 IL2 comparison comments..



vanjast
01-23-2006, 11:08 PM
I don't have CFS3 but have IL2, so I asked some local guys who are airline/red cross pilots.theses are their comments, which reflect my feelings to, not having done as much RL flying as these 2 have.


Airline Pilot:
Whatever that guys smoking, I want some too. I reinstalled CFS3 recently, and it shades in every possible way to IL2. Granted, I did not patch it, but still it sucks! It doesn't even feature secondary effects of controls! When I fire the guns on an a/c, the bullets/tracers look like they belong in a space invader type game.
The good thing about the CFS3 is the sound of the fuselage groaning and creaking when pulling G's.
And there are some a/c I would love to get my hands on in IL2, like the Tempest, Mosquito ect.
Apart from that CFS3 is a waste of hard drive space!
Needless to say, I uninstalled it the following day.



Red-Cross Pilot:
I don't have it, but that is the almost universal opinion amongst 'proper' sim players (ie IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) Those that argue in favour of CFS3 say it's that addon models that should be judged, since the good ones are apparently quite good. I remain unconvinced that CFS could even vaguely come close to IL2 as a complete package, no matter what plane models you throw at it, but thats just my biased opinion!


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Fish40
01-24-2006, 07:02 AM
There was a thread on this topic a while ago on the IL2 forums. I actually have all the CFS series, as well as the whole IL2 series, as well as BOBIIWOV(we won't touch this one).

After reading all the CFSIII bashing and knocking, and comparing, you would think that I would have caved in uninstalled this proggy. But I haven't! Instead, I took it to the max, and gave it new life!

Firstly, fresh out of the box, this sim is horrible imo, so I could see how people give up. The graphics are less then acceptable for me(I love realism- needs to look real too), and the gameplay was lacking due to initial stuttering problems. But alot has changed since the initial release.

The official game patches that were released addressed most of the bugs, and improved gameplay, but it was'nt until the boys over at Shockwave got their hands on the title that good things started to become apparant. Their Firepower addon for CFSIII has improved grahics effects, and better cockpit appearence. Granted, the cockpits in IL2 are imo much better, but any improvement is good.

CFSIII also has it's own mod community, and I've found some terrific enhancements here. There is a terrain mod which is reccomended for higher end machines, which gives the landscape a better look then the stock version. There are sound mods to improve the sounds of certain AC. There are also tracer mods, as well as a mod to add exhaust flame on startup.

So you see, it's not a total loss. As a matter of fact, apart from the cockpits, I believe the external views of the AC are excellent in both sims, and I feel the overall appearence of the landscape in CFS3 looks better then IL2(useing the mod I mentioned).The only aspect in landscape that IL2 wins handsdown is the "Perfect" water, and wave effects. The water in CFS3 is lacking.

We could go on for hours comparing different sims. In a nutshell, CFS3 has come a long way since it's release. I don't think it's fair to dismiss it, without seeing it's full potential. The funny part is that lately, I haven't played either of these sims, as most of my time has been occupied beneath the waves!

vanjast
01-24-2006, 08:10 AM
Fish-40:

Flight modelling... flight modelling. that is what this comparison was about. Wulfy reckoned that IL2 was not better than CFS3, but I had different ideas about that. I just put a query for our local guys who used it. Above is just 2 quotes.

The object was not to compare the visuals, as any game developer can go overboard.
Also game bashing is a good idea as it give people the 'nitty gritty' on the game.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TheRealWulfmann
01-24-2006, 08:14 AM
When Oleg sat down with one of our consultants and began to speak as soon as he found out he was talking to a top NASA flight engineer he got up and left.
These people have never flown a modded CFS3 so what you posted is like comparing Pong to the latest EA Hockey game.

I have played them both and no one that does CFS3 has played MAW so has no clue that the FMs are far and ahead more realistic than anything ever done in any PC based flight sim.
But these guys that have likely never heard about it should be listened to. Why expand your horizons??
However, both admit to never having flown the modded version so the best way to like IL-2 more is to never try CFS3 modded.
MAW (Mediterranean Air War) will be a free add-on that will have taken 2 years for people from all over the world working together for the love of the game.
I won€t lose any money if you don't get it nor make any if you do.
I do not fault Oleg at all for the fine efforts and success he has had with IL-2. Fortunately for him, there is little money in flight sims for M$ to care or they would have hired all the top people and drove him out of business in a flash.
But, we, all simmers, are a nitch market where the rewards are near worthless to the Gate's type.
How is the IL-2 free Korean add on???? Oopps that was a free CFS3 one as well.
Also with no disrespect to Shockwave and Just Flight, the later mods are far superior to anything they have done as well.
But, not having experienced them many IL-2 fans will not be swayed.
For MP, there is IL-2 and nothing else, I should add. Without a level playing field, MP is meaningless and the control that allows CFS3 to make it superior in SP to IL-2 is why CFS3 is worthless in MP.

I know the IL-2 motto: There is but one God and Oleg is his prophet (profit?)
Just my personal joke about the over enthusiastic IL-2 fanboys!
Wulfmann

BTW, every screen I have posted on MAW is an unfinsihed Beta, not one is done. Nor are the effects and scenery http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/P40-Ju52-3.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/P40-Ju52-3.jpg) http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/bf-109-welly-2.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/bf-109-welly-2.jpg)

Fish40
01-24-2006, 08:30 AM
Wulfmann, those screenies look great! Excuse my ignorance, but is MAW going to be an addon for IL2, or for some other sim? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fish40
01-24-2006, 08:36 AM
Forget it. I think I answered my own question. From the looks of those screen shots, especially those flickering flame effects, I'll guess it's for CFS3. Is this correct? The water looks different from the current game, that's what threw me.

JU88
01-24-2006, 09:19 AM
I wish planes in SH3 looked that good! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

TheRealWulfmann
01-24-2006, 10:30 AM
Like I said these are in the building stages. The 109 screen is older and has no tracer smoke. The water is something we had to figure out. Korea had blue land as water and it was a bummer. Ed cracked the water thing or we would likely never have proceeded.
We will have likely over 200 aircraft as many will be exact models such as Red2 of JG27. After the fall in North Africa this unit moved to Rhodes near Lindos (incredibly beautiful place, BTW).
The Sand Gelb had some green swirled on it for blending to the Greek Island landscape.
They were only there for seven weeks but one of the painters had to do it just because it is cool. So, for a brief time you will fly out of Rhodes before moving on to colder climates. Enjoy the Baklava and Ouzo while you can!
This is not an add on. One must have CFS3 installed with the 2 patches and then this instal off that to a new separate sim with, then, no connection to CFS3 ETO.

Wulfmann

Here is a shot of one of the first mission of the desert war, both planes unfinished the victorious Gladiator (Russel Crow is not the pilot!) and the very nimble Fiat CR32 http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/Glad-cr32-2.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/Glad-cr32-2.jpg)

vanjast
01-24-2006, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by TheRealWulfmann:
When Oleg sat down with one of our consultants and began to speak as soon as he found out he was talking to a top NASA flight engineer he got up and left.


Did anybody ask Oleg why he left the room ? I would to, if they were the opposition company, I would not want to discuss competing products in case secrets were leaked.

'our consultants' - meaning US or, you work for Shockwave or Just Flight.

OK! I take your word for it, but consider this.
Most people have not taken to IL2 because they cannot even get a plane off the ground. It has been much easier in MS games because of the flight model, thus it's more attractive to the beginner.
We have new guys arrive and complain (and I mean complain) like there's no tommorrow, but they persevered and succeeded.

1C has aeronautical engineers plus other game developers, although this does not make one a 'rocket scientest'. Being a flight engineer (maybe you worded this wrong) does not make you an aeronautical engineer. Two completely different careers. I've also seen so called highly qualified people 'botch things up from a dizzy height' that is actually very worrying that they're there in the first place http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

TheRealWulfmann
01-24-2006, 11:03 AM
One former pilot told me )of IL-2) if planes flew anything like that is real life they would be littering the landscape every day.

CFS3 as released was trash, completely.

I have never had anything to do with Just Flight or Shockwave but applauded their then commercial improvements for those that could not or did not want to mod (like Seawolves and our fine Mod community)

No Oleg knew he was talking to someone from Aviation History but did not know at first how qualified the person was (You are correct he is a aeronautical engineer working for NASA on related space vehicles). When his arguments began to make Oleg look bad in a public debate he left (can't blame him)
This is not meant to discredit Oleg who has done an excellent job with IL-2 as it had more limits than CFS3 but was being better utilized by him.
His next project (if I heard right) has been pushed back 2 years (or is it 2 years from now??) I assume and hope he is making a new engine that will make everything us Desert Rats are doing totaly obsolete.
Progess should never stop and anything good done should be outdone as fast as possible to our betterment.
95% of my time in Flight sims is making and working on them. I would love to not have to do that.
SH3 was a big improvement and only about 50-60% of my time has been spent modding this fine game.

blue_76
01-24-2006, 01:24 PM
has anyone tried the OFF mod for cfs3? i'm thinking of buying cfs3 because of it, but don't know if it will be worth doing so...
i have the il2 series and must say its a great sim, though it lacks a certain soul in the campaign department http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
how i miss the good old days of red baron... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Fish40
01-24-2006, 02:05 PM
Blue, not to sound like a moron, but what is the OFF mod? I won't talk you out of buying CFS3, but don't get disappointed right away. Out of the box, this sim is a big disappointment. To get the most out of it, you need to update to the latest patches, and you must get the Firepower addon from Shockwave. Lastly, but not leastly, search the web for sites which host mods for CFS3. There are quite a few mods out there that really add the finishing touch.

IL2 is a fantastic line of sims! I own them all, and I'm certainly not trying to take anything away from them. All I'm saying is that once CFS3 is brought up to snuff via the patches,ect..., it can become a decent flight sim, which should'nt be dismissed so quickly. Good luck with your decision, and ENJOY!!!

vanjast
01-24-2006, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by TheRealWulfmann:
One former pilot told me )of IL-2) if planes flew anything like that is real life they would be littering the landscape every day.


They do litter the virtual landscape http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif , but with the same token we must remember that these are planes from 65 years ago. Some old WW2 vets have even applauded the game, but a PC game is a PC game.
As you know the reason I like this game. (dam mission editor would only let me put down a 100 planes (each plane and it's variants) or so... couldn't get the Japanese, Italians and British planes in http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/vanjast/HalfPlanes.jpg

Fish40
01-24-2006, 02:27 PM
Man! That's one traffic jam! Looks like JFK on a holiday weekend! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

blue_76
01-24-2006, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Fish40:
Blue, not to sound like a moron, but what is the OFF mod? I won't talk you out of buying CFS3, but don't get disappointed right away. Out of the box, this sim is a big disappointment. To get the most out of it, you need to update to the latest patches, and you must get the Firepower addon from Shockwave. Lastly, but not leastly, search the web for sites which host mods for CFS3. There are quite a few mods out there that really add the finishing touch.

IL2 is a fantastic line of sims! I own them all, and I'm certainly not trying to take anything away from them. All I'm saying is that once CFS3 is brought up to snuff via the patches,ect..., it can become a decent flight sim, which should'nt be dismissed so quickly. Good luck with your decision, and ENJOY!!!

thanks for the tip! i'll make sure to download those mods before my purchase. this way, i'll have them ready when i get my copy of cfs3.
the off stands for over flander's field. basically its a ww1 mod for cfs3. it looks to be promising, but haven't heard much from people who have it.. here's the web site for it:
http://off.oldbrowndog.net/

and here's a screenshot:
http://i1.tinypic.com/mjal9w.jpg

TheRealWulfmann
01-24-2006, 07:37 PM
Phase one of OFF is free and the next phase will have a small charge to offset the cost but do not know what that will be.
Mark made a commitment to release before Christmas and kept his word but it required a series of patches.

It is very cool with impressive WWI scenery. .

Some of the models are not as goods other but Mark is a perfectionist and they will be. This is the best WWI sim ever done by far and, again, you must have CFS3 installed to run it.

Fish 40, Firepower and Just Flight are so far behind the newer modded stuff and light years behind what MAW will be. There is a much greater difference between MAW and Firepower than IL-2 and IL-2 PFs.
I would suggest people that do not have CFS3 and do not want to become a full time mod installer try and pick up a CFS3 from eBay, get OFF and the Korean add on and wait for MAW. You will not have to mod anything and won't have to buy the add ons.
You may learn you could find out what many already know. They are all good in their correct manner.
Wulfmann

Fish40
01-25-2006, 01:11 AM
I hear you Wulf, but let me ask you this question. Does OFF, or the Korean addon, or even MAW when it becomes available, need a clean install of CFS3 or can they be installed in conjunction with Firepower? My CFS3 is all patched, plus I have Firepower with the Shockwave patches. I just don't want to have any probs. Can you shed any light? Thanks.

TheRealWulfmann
01-25-2006, 08:56 AM
Can never say never. Check at the OFF site but it should not.
Remember, you can always rename the three areas of where CFS3 goes to a new name like, CFS3X (Progaram files, MS game, My documents and application data MS games) then install a fresh CFS3, patch it and add all three versions which will install from the CFS3 named version.
After completed, you delete the new stock version, rename your Firepower one back to CFS3 and Shazamm, you have 4 games and no worry about wierded file exchanges (always a possibility).
I do this when I install each aplha of MAW and did it for OFF

Wulfmann