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Daiichidoku
12-09-2004, 11:51 AM
I fly the Jug as my main ride online DF

Ive noticed that now the Jug can catch fire again...not like the 1.22 Jugs that acted as if steeped in a gasoline marinade overnight, it takes a lot of hits to ignite, but it surprised me, as since they fixed the Jug cathing fire, it nevere did that...until now...302bm, I dunno if this is the case in 301...not a complaint, just an observation


I cant remember who, but someone told me in the forum that the Jug actually had a selectable bombload...that isw, the Jug pilot could select which of his bombs he wanted to drop, and singly, in pairs, all at once, etc...can anyone post some proof of this, please? would be a nice lil option for ground pounding Jug, and would help make it mor eeffective....nice to drop 3 bombs individually, instead of 2 then 1


I would also welcome info about the Jugs water injection system...namely, was the pilot able to turn it off, and conserve the water mix?...while flying the Jug, once the water is enabled, it continues to drain, even when the throttle is reduced to below 100%...Ive used the water, then flown about for some time ithout it, then when advancing throttle to over 100% again, there is no water injection
Is this correct, or should water injection be pilot controlled to conserve it?


BTW, Im very pleased to see the D-22 finally has the correct paddle prop fitted, thanks Oleg and crew!

p1ngu666
12-09-2004, 12:46 PM
well, if u left a bomb on 1 wing, that would seriously mess up the balence http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

MEGILE
12-09-2004, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>well, if u left a bomb on 1 wing, that would seriously mess up the balence <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pilots have trim on a slider.

Daiichidoku
12-09-2004, 01:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
well, if u left a bomb on 1 wing, that would seriously mess up the balence http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, that one bomb probably wouldnt be left on the wing for very long, anyhow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Besides, often IRL bombs would "hang" and not be released by the shackles....a problem, but not a major one, nothing trim couldnt handle...tho, Im sure it made for VERY anxious landings IRL with a hung bomb


Anyone have word on the water injection sys?...would be really nice to be able to save the water for when its really needed, especially up high

LilHorse
12-09-2004, 01:41 PM
If I recall correctly the water injection was engaged by squeezing a little lever on the throttle column that allowed the throttle to be pushed past the stop point. Once you throttled back from that point the water injection was cut off. You only had about 11 minutes total W.I. time. And I think it was advised not to engage it for longer than about five minutes at a time so as not to do damage to the engine (not that you really care about that when you're trying to beat hell out of a bad situation).

I always thought that in-game it turned off once you backed the throttle down below 101%. I don't think it's like the MW-50 where you need to assign a key. It's been a while since I've flown the Jug.

Daiichidoku
12-09-2004, 01:55 PM
Well, if you, say, take off at 110% with water, then reduce power to 99% and cruise around for awhile, lets say 20 minutes, just to be sure, then advance throttle over 100% again, there is no water injection...its like once its engaged, the tank keeps draining til empty, even if below 100% throttle

Copperhead310th
12-09-2004, 02:13 PM
<span class="ev_code_RED">P-47 Water Injection Regulator and Hydraulic System</span>

http://www.rwebs.net/avhistory/images/wihyd.jpg

Water lnjection Used

To meet the demands for a higher emergency rating and to safeguard the engine from detonation when operated at considerably above the military power, water injection has been applied to the Thunderbolt€s power plant. Water is pumped from a 30 gal tank strapped to the firewall and is admitted through a water regulator by operation of a solenoid valve. Pressurized water beyond the regulator resets carburetor mixture so that the fuel-air ratio is decreased thereby increasing power without a corresponding rise in manifold pressure. The higher increase in power, however, is developed by high manifold pressure accomplished through a boost reset mechanism also actuated by water pressure; the reset overrides the supercharger regulator setting of the waste gates, therefore permitting the turbo to develop the higher rpms required to maintain the War Emergency Rating manifold pressure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

And just for good mesure......

<span class="ev_code_RED">P-47 Supercharger and Supercharger System</span>

The exhaust driven turbine is approximately 22 ft aft of the propeller and is supported by a ring attached to the lower longerons. The exhaust gases are collected by two rings, one each for the left and right bank of cylinders and directed to the nozzle box of the turbine through shrouded exhaust piping along either side of the airplane beneath the fuselage. Spent gas escapes through a stainless steel flight hood which extends below the fuselage.

http://www.rwebs.net/avhistory/images/superchg.jpg

Ram air is piped through ducts under the fuselage extending from the primary cowling to the impeller-inlet of the turbine; after supercharging, the air is scooped to the intercooler then piped along either side of the fuselage and directed to a single duct above the carburetor.

A considerable volume of the "ram" is conducted to the intercooler in order to lower the temperature of supercharged air. Electric-motor-controlled doors of the intercooler exit ducts on both sides of the fuselage vary the flow of cooling air through the intercooler.

Supercharging is controlled to maintain the manifold pressure value selected by the pilot, by means of an oil operated supercharger regulator. The regulator, through linkage, varies the position of waste gates in the exhaust pipes just aft of the collector rings and thus controls the volume of exhaust gases directed to the nozzle box of the turbine. The position of a piston in the regulator, is balanced by exhaust pressure and a compression spring; the spring is mechanically loaded to correspond to the desired exhaust pressure valve by a supercharger lever in the cockpit. When the exhaust pressure varies from the selected value, the piston moves in the direction of the greater pressure and opens a port admitting pressurized lubricating oil to that chamber of the regulator which will affect the movement of the waste gates in the proper direction to balance the piston at the neutral position.

Interconnected Engine Controls

In order to minimize pilots attention to engine controls, the propeller, boost, and throttle levers of the P-47 may be interconnected and moved as a single lever with power and rpm correlated through the full range of the control quadrant. Correlation is mechanical. The propeller lever is correlated by the use of a cam; throttle and boost levers are correlated by adjustment of conventional push-pull rods.

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/P-47/47TQ.gif

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Controls may be disconnected by releasing a simple spring loaded clip on the throttle lever.</span>

Now class....who can tell me what each of these levers is for??? Contrary to popular belife the Thunderbolt pilots had the ability to control all engine managemnt fuctions both MANUALLY as well as AUTOMATICALLY.

Please note this diagrahm below for all left side input controls.

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/P-47/47CPL.gif

Also the fine folks as Zeno's have an exellent vintagte WWII training video for real player that you can watch. I HIGHLY recomend that any virtual p-47 pilot warch this at least ONCE.

YOU WILL NEED REAL PLAYER TO VIEW THIS ZENO'S VIDEO.

P-47 Ground Handling, Takeoff, Normal Flight and Landing Film @ Zeno's (http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/realg2/P-47ARV56.ram)

A Very good Link to remember & bookmark:
The P47 Thunderbolt Pilots Association (http://www.p47pilots.com/index.cfm)
This is the real deal. Not virtual pilots but the geuys who really flew them!

Daiichidoku
12-09-2004, 02:45 PM
Way cool, copperhead, ty

Ummm given the pic, its look seasy...

1-Boost, or supercharger lever

2-air/fuel Mixture lever

3-Throttle, inc water inj button

4-Prop pitch


Hey, Copperhead, ever send this stuff to 1C/Oleg in regards to getting manual controls tfor the Jug?...If so, ever get a response about it?...If so, what was the response?

It really sucks when even if you only use a bit of water, by the time you get up to 25,000ft+, there aint much water left

Copperhead310th
12-09-2004, 02:48 PM
nope i haven't. reason...
ppl with more knowlage than i have insisted time
and again that it was colntrolled AUTO ONLY.
and so i'm not goint to debate them.

This is a good thread...nice start for a P-47 Knowlage base thread. lets hope the LW guys stay out of it. Last thing we need is this to turn into another FW-190 whine fest. I'll put up evey thing i have on the thunderbolt. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Daiichidoku
12-09-2004, 02:49 PM
lol I didnt see the diagram below and missed that the buttoin oin the throttle is for the interphone! lol

hmmmm another thing we dont get in the Jug is the cockpit light.....

OT, but does anyone know if the P 63 had instument lights? as it is now, it only has red cockpit lights, no instument backlighting

VW-IceFire
12-09-2004, 02:49 PM
Its not just the Jug actually. I find most planes light up a bit easier than before. I think it was a global change in the DM system.

Daiichidoku
12-09-2004, 03:15 PM
Copperhead, sir, please free feel to post all your Jugwares here...I look forward to it

Just checked out the Jug video at Zeno's....the shot of the ground loop was neato...and gosh, wish my FB Jug stalled like it did IRL...seeing that is really telling on the stall/spin thing in FB...and makes the FB 38 look even worse than it is, if a single engine Jug will stall like that!

Copperhead310th
12-09-2004, 03:40 PM
<span class="ev_code_RED">Operating Instructions for the P-47</span>

1. PRELIMINARY CHECK
a. Obtain flight clearance.
b. Check outside of airplane.
c. Check controls.

2. ENTER COCKPIT
a. Check controls for location.
b. Check gear (see that handle is down).
c. Check flaps, handle must be in UP position.
d. Flap equalizer, on models having Flap Equalizer, closed, in down position.
e. Generator switch ON.
f. P-47B Ignition switch to BAT. P-47C, P-47D and P-47G Ignition switch OFF and master battery switch on.
g. Intercooler shutters neutral.
h. Oil cooler shutters Neutral.
i. Propeller switch ON and selector in AUTOMATIC.
j. Fuel boost pump to START and ALTITUDE. (fully counterclockwise).
k. Check fuel pressure.
l. Gun switch OFF.
m. Adjust rudder pedal.

3. STARTING ENGINE
a. Turn propeller several revolutions by hand with ignition OFF.
b. P-47B Ignition switch BAT. P-47C, P-47D and P-47G Master batter switch ON.
c. Supercharger lever OFF (full rear position).
d. Fuel selector valve MAIN.
e. Crack throttle 1/4" to 1/2" OPEN.
f. Mixture control IDLE CUT-OFF.
g. Propeller switch AUTOMATIC. Circuit Breaker ON.
h. Propeller control maximum RPM - 2700 RPM.
i. Fuel boost pump control to START and ALTITUDE.
j. Prime 2 - 4 strokes if warm and 4 - 6 if cold. As much as one-forth throttle opening and heavy priming may be necessary when extremely cold.
k. Ignition switch to BOTH.
l. Energize and engage starter, push mixture forward to AUTO RICH as soon as engine fires. If engine stops due to being loaded, open throttle wide and return mixture to IDLE CUT-OFF until engine fires again then ****** throttle and return mixture to AUTO RICH. Throttle to 900 RPM.

4. WARM UP AND TAKE OFF
a. Check oil pressure (if 25 lbs is not reached in 30 seconds cut off engine).
b. Do not increase power above 1000 RPM if oil pressure is 150 to 200 lbs. Wait until it is normal. Below 90 lbs.
c. Check magnetos.
d. With flap selector handle UP (fully forward) equalize flaps to be sure that flaps will work together.
e. Unlock tail wheel and taxi.
f. Set trim tabs elevator NEUTRAL, aileron NEUTRAL, and rudder TAKE-OFF position.
g. Mixture AUTO RICH.
h. Fuel selector valve on MAIN TANK.
i. Flaps UP.
j. Cowl flaps OPEN TRAIL.
k. Lock tail wheel.
l. Open throttle not to exceed 42" (with 91 octane fuel).
m. Watch for overheating - AVOID.

5. USE OF POWER
MP RPM
Take-off 52" Hg FULL RPM (if 91 octane do not exceed 42") maximum RPM 2700
Climb 35" Hg 2500 RPM
Cruise 27" Hg 2350 (after 10 hours) first 10 hours - 25" and 2250 RPM

6.LANDING
a. Do not lower landing gear above 200 MPH.
b. Do not lower flaps above 195 MPH.
c. Never exceed 250 MPH with landing gear down.
d. Use of partial flaps (return flap handle to neutral).
e. Do not use up all of runway, land near as possible to beginning of runway.

7. WING FLAP OPERATION - EMERGENCY
In event of failure of the engine-driven hydraulic pump, the flaps may be manually lowered by use of the emergency hand pump located at the left of the pilot's seat.

8.LANDING GEAR OPERATION - EMERGENCY
Land gear operation in case of failure of engine-driven hydraulic pump. To retract landing gear move control handle to UP position as usual. Operate the hand pump until the warning light indicates that the gear is up and locked.

To extend landing gear move control lever to the DOWN position as usual. This will release the gear which should drop into position and lock due to its own weight. If the gear is still not locked down, yaw the airplane from side to side.

WARNING - Always complete landing gear cycle if possible. IF handle is move to UP allow gear to go completely up before changing valve. If handle is moved to DOWN allow gear to go completely down before changing control.

Copperhead310th
12-09-2004, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
Copperhead, sir, please free feel to post all your Jugwares here...I look forward to it

Just checked out the Jug video at Zeno's....the shot of the ground loop was neato...and gosh, wish my FB Jug stalled like it did IRL...seeing that is really telling on the stall/spin thing in FB...and makes the FB 38 look even worse than it is, if a single engine Jug will stall like that! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yup.. but just like they tell you...the stall was VERY PRONOUNCED you knew well before the jug stalled. somthing that was not happening in v3.01 but has now from what we can tell, been fixed in 3.02Bm, thank Oleg. lol

Copperhead310th
12-09-2004, 03:56 PM
<span class="ev_code_RED">Republic P-47D Thunderbolt Cutaway View</span>

Introduced as a high altitude, offensive fighter, the P-47 with eight .50 cal machine guns, was later equipped with supports for rocket tubes and a cluster of demolition bombs. It can also function as a ground strafer, tank buster, tunnel buster, hedge hopper, and dive bomber. With a bomb load of 2000 lb. capacity, its weight is more than 7 tons. Powered by a 2000 hp, 18-cylinder Pratt & Whitney engine, its speed is in excess of 425 mph; range more than 1000 miles; ceiling about 40,000 ft. Wing span is 41 ft.; lenght 36 ft., 1 ". Propeller may be either Curtiss-Wright electric or Hamilton Standard, hydraulically controlled, constant-speed, four-blade assemblies. (Hamilton Standard type shown here).
http://www.rwebs.net/avhistory/images/P47cutaw.jpg

faustnik
12-09-2004, 04:05 PM
Daiichidoku,

Are you sure about the water drain being modeled in PF? I can't remember ever having run out of water in the Jug or MW50 in the 190D9 late. I restrict use to avoid overheat but, have never had it "run out".

Copperhead310th
12-09-2004, 04:18 PM
a good thunderbolt story. The guys complaning about the "weak" hitting power of German MG's obvliousy don't understand that, as far as the Jug goes.... they had little afftect.

With three Fighter Groups setting up in Britain, the 8th Air Force hoped to have all three operational by mid February. This would not be possible due to problems with radios and engine troubles encountered during high altitude test flights. Many of the Pratt & Whitney engines were suffering from ignition breakdown and distributor leakage. This resulted in fouled spark plugs and serious loss of power. These problems would plague the P-47 for several months. By the end of the Spring of 1943, most of the teething woes will have been overcome.
Finally, on March 10th, the 4th Fighter Group went on operational status. They fly an offensive fighter sweep over France. 14 Thunderbolts, accompanied by an even dozen Spitfire Mk.V€s, (still remaining with the 4th FG) head out to gain some combat experience in their new fighter. They are ignored by the Luftwaffe. Several of the 4th€s pilots assigned to the Thunderbolts refuse to fly it. The P-47 is very much disliked by these veterans of the Eagle Squadron, who prefer their Spitfires. This first mission does nothing to reduce their unhappiness. Radio communication was all but impossible due to interference. The attitude of the 4th FG was not just the result of having to fly a fighter they believed to be unsuited for aerial combat with the Luftwaffe. Their experience during work ups was not very positive. Some pilots were forced to bailout due to fires. Others suffered landing gear collapse on landing. Still others suffered engine failures. They flew their first combat sweep with virtually zero confidence in the P-47.
What most pilots did not understand was that most of the problems were a result of the hasty assembly work performed in England. Each aircraft would need a great deal of attention to iron out the bugs. Republic technical personnel worked long hours rectifying the problems.

During the first week of April, all three P-47 Groups (4th, 56th and 78th) are formally declared operational. On April 8th, all three Groups turned out for a joint fighter sweep over France. Once again, the Luftwaffe ignores their presence. Several more sweeps are flown during the following days, all uneventful. Finally, on April 15th, Major Donald Blakeslee, of the 4th FG gets the P-47€s first kill by shooting down an Fw 190 near Dieppe. Two weeks later, the 56th loses two Thunderbolts when bounced by Focke Wulfs. They fail to shoot down any of their attackers. These lost fighters are replaced with the first P-47D models to arrive in the theater. Externally, the difference between the early D models and the P-47C is virtually undetectable to the untrained eye. The single most important difference is that the D models are equipped with water injection, that provides for greater power when the throttle is advanced to Combat power.
With the coming of May, escort operations begin. The 78th claims one German fighter and two probables while escorting heavy bombers to Antwerp. In exchange, three of the 78th€s P-47€s fail to make it home. The 56th is doing even worse. After 31 combat missions, they have yet to claim a single enemy fighter against their several losses. Eventually, they score their first victory during a sweep over Rouen on June 12th. On the very next day, Robert Johnson got his first kill, blasting an Fw 190 to pieces. However, on June 26th, the 56th lost five Thunderbolts with four more shot to pieces. All they can claim is two German fighters.
It was on this mission that Johnson€s P-47 is crippled by enemy fire. Refusing to break formation (after being chewed out for doing just that when he gained his first victory) Johnson repeatedly tried to warn his Group of attacking Fw 190€s. For some reason, no one heard his frantic radio calls. Johnson€s fighter was clobbered by German 20mm cannon shells. The engine was hit, the hydraulic system shot out, spraying Johnson with fluid. His canopy was jammed closed and his oxygen system destroyed. The leaking hydraulic fluid and oxygen came in contact with each other and burst into flame inside the cockpit. Fortunately, it was only a flash fire, but Johnson was properly singed, losing his eyebrows and taking on the appearance of a cooked lobster. Having flown without his goggles (they were being repaired), the mist of hydraulic fluid nearly blinded him and caused swelling that threatened to eliminate what limited vision he retained.

Without oxygen, hypoxia began to cloud Johnson€s reasoning. In a panic, he fought to get out of the wrecked P-47. The canopy would not slide back more than a few inches. Jamming his feet against the shot up instrument panel, he pulled with all his considerable strength. No luck, it would not budge. One of the side plexiglass panels had been blown out of the canopy. Johnson tried to squeeze through it, but his parachute snagged. No sense in climbing out unless he brings his chute with him. What to do?

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Johnson1.JPG This well known photo shows the bottom portion of Johnson's
rudder having been blasted away by 20 mm cannon shells.

While Johnson was struggling with his situation, the P-47 was rapidly descending. As he lost altitude, the effects of hypoxia were wearing off and the cobwebs began to dissipate. Quite suddenly, it dawned on him that the Thunderbolt was actually flying. Upon this realization, Johnson decided to see how far he could nurse it towards the English channel. He eased off the throttle and the Pratt & Whitney radial stopped its shaking. The big fighter answered its controls with authority. Johnson was elated. Maybe, just maybe, he could make it home.

Then he saw it. Sliding in from his left rear, a fighter closes in. But, whose fighter? Then, he recognized it. A beautiful but deadly Fw-190 with a gleaming yellow nose. Flying just off Johnson's wing, the German pilot scans the shot up P-47. Wondering what is going through the German pilot's mind, Johnson watches as he eases away and swings around in a graceful turn; sliding in behind the Thunderbolt. Knowing full well what€s to come, Johnson grabs the seat adjuster lever and drops the seat full down where he is afforded the full protection of the armor plate behind the seat. Johnson thinks to himself; €œlet him shoot, this Thunderbolt can€t be hurt anymore than it already is.€ The Fw 190 opens up on the flying wreck. Like hail on a tin roof, 7.92 mm rounds pour into the Jug. What, no 20 mm? Thankfully, these have all been expended in some other fight. Johnson sits, hunkered down behind the armor as the German pilot ripsaws the battered Thunderbolt with hundreds of rounds.

Finally, his anger building, Johnson decides that he must do something. Kicking hard right and left rudder, the big fighter yaws right, then left. This scrubs off speed and caught off guard, the German cannot avoid over-running the P-47. Johnson sees him go by, but is unable to see anything through his oil covered windscreen. Shoving his head out through the shattered canopy, Johnson sees the Fw 190 turn gently to the right. Seeing an opportunity, he kicks hard right rudder, skidding the Thunderbolt, Johnson depresses the gun switch button. A stream of tracers heads towards the German fighter. But, it doesn€t falter.

Instead, it continues around in a perfect turn and slides in alongside the perforated P-47 once again. Johnson makes eye contact with the German pilot. He can see the dismay on the German€s face. There is no way that this American fighter can still be flying. It is impossible that it could absorb such a pounding and keep on flying. The Focke Wulf eases out to the right, and slides back into perfect firing position once again. Johnson cowers behind his armor plate as 7.92 mm bullets rain upon the utterly mangled Thunderbolt. Just when Johnson is convinced that it will never stop, he stamps down hard on the rudder pedals again. This time the German expects just such a move and pulls off his throttle. The dappled 190 eases up on Johnson€s wing once again, the German pilot shaking his head in silent amazement. They fly this way for several minutes. Finally, the German waves an informal salute and slides in behind Johnson€s invulnerable fighter for the third time. As before, the Jug is pounded by streams of lead. The Fw 190 swings gently from left to right, spraying the indestructible P-47 with an incessant barrage of machine gun fire. Suddenly, it stops. The Focke Wulf eases alongside again. The German looks over the Thunderbolt. The pilot stares with a look of admiration on his face. Pulling even with Johnson, the 190 wags its wings in salute and peels away in a climbing turn. Having fired his last rounds at the stubborn Jug, the German heads for home, certainly convinced that the mauled fighter will never make home.

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Johnson2.JPG
Another well known photo showing the damage to Johnson's canopy
that caused it to jam. The large holes are from 20 mm cannon hits. The
smaller holes are mostly from 7.92 mm bullets.

Finally free of the Focke Wulf, Johnson suddenly realizes that during the entire attack, he had depressed his mike button. Releasing the button, the accented voice of an Englishman fills his headphones. €œHello, hello, climb if you can, you€re getting very faint€. It was Air-Sea Rescue. They had heard the entire fight, including Johnson cursing his tormentor. Johnson€s spirit soars, and he responds, €œI€ll try, but I€m down to less than 1,000 feet€. Shouting with joy, he eases back on the stick. Not only will the Thunderbolt fly, hot ****, She€ll climb! Slowly, Johnson nurses the P-47 up to 8,000 feet. The big fighter hauls herself up, instilling greater confidence in a man who was ready to bail out but a few minutes before. €œBlue four, blue four, I have you loud and clear. Steer three-four€"five degrees.€

€œI can€t do that mayday control, my compass is shot out€ answers Johnson.

The calm British voice issues instructions to €œturn slightly right€, and continues to provide course corrections until, after 40 minutes Johnson spots the coast of Dover through broken clouds. Directed to an emergency airfield, Johnson circles but cannot spot the sod runway. After checking his fuel, he pushes the mike button;

€œMayday control, this is blue four, I€m ok now. I€m going to fly onto Manston. I€d like to land back at my outfit.€

Johnson continues on to Manston. Contacting the tower, he describes his situation. The last test comes as he moves the landing gear lever to the €œdown€ position. Not only does the gear drop and lock, but by some miracle, the tires have not been hit. Easing onto the grass, Johnson has no flaps and no brakes. The big fighter does not slow and is heading towards a row of RAF Spitfires and Typhoons parked at the end of the runway. In desperation, he stomps on the left rudder pedal. The Thunderbolt ground loops and slides backwards in between two of the British fighters just like it had been parked there.

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/JohnsonP-47D-5-RE.JPG
Robert Johnson and his crew chief, Pappy Gould, pose in front his new
P-47D-5-RE. This fighter was the replacement for his battered and
scrapped P-47C. Johnson would name the new fighter "Lucky".

Slowly, Johnson gathers his wits and removing his parachute, squeezes out of the shattered canopy. Once on the ground he realizes the extent of the damage. Not only to the plane, but to himself. A bullet had nicked his nose. His hands were bleeding from the shrapnel of 20 mm shells that exploded in the cockpit. Two 7.92 mm rounds had hit him in his leg. 21 holes from 20 mm shells are counted in the airframe. He quits counting bullet holes when he reaches 100. It seems as if every square foot of the fighter has a hole in it. Somehow, the P-47 had shrugged off the damage and refused to die. Johnson will recover quickly. The Thunderbolt will not. It was scrapped on the spot, very little could be salvaged that was not damaged.

Robert Johnson would go on to shoot down 28 (revised down to 27 after the war) German fighters, with 6 probables and 4 more damaged. After the war, Luftwaffe records indicated that Johnson might have shot down as many as 32 German fighters. Johnson flew 91 combat missions. On those missions, he encountered German fighters 43 times. In 36 of the 43 encounters, Johnson fired his guns at the enemy. A result of those 36 instances where he fired on German aircraft, 37 of those aircraft were hit; with as few as 27 or as many as 32 going down. Rather impressive for a pilot who flunked gunnery school.

Daiichidoku
12-09-2004, 06:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Daiichidoku,

Are you sure about the water drain being modeled in PF? I can't remember ever having run out of water in the Jug or MW50 in the 190D9 late. I restrict use to avoid overheat but, have never had it "run out". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes...been that way a long time...cant say about the 190, barely ever flown it..but the P 47 WILL run out of water...I will do a test soon, start on ground, rev to 110% to start the water, then throttle back to 99% and wait a while....if you wait long enough, you will find when throttle goes 110% again, there is no water

faustnik
12-10-2004, 01:03 AM
OK, I'll test that with the P-47 and Corsair water and with the 190D lates MW mix. I have noticed with the F4U that, after using WEP for a while, it tends to overheat faster each time after it cools. Perhaps it has a small water injection reservior. I have the F4U manual to check that later.

I'm usually using the NE boost on the 190A series which sucks down more fuel than the 200hp Johnson on my bassboat (and that is a lot of gas).

Flew the P-47 for a while online tonight, it sure is a great ride now! The high speed handling is awesome.

This is a great thread. Copperhead is posting some great data and anecdotes, too bad it has to have more negativity aimed at LW flyers mixed in. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

WOLFMondo
12-10-2004, 01:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
Well, if you, say, take off at 110% with water, then reduce power to 99% and cruise around for awhile, lets say 20 minutes, just to be sure, then advance throttle over 100% again, there is no water injection...its like once its engaged, the tank keeps draining til empty, even if below 100% throttle <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've never experianced that. I've certainly experianced the water injection going dry but thats after allot of sustained use.

Copperhead310th
12-10-2004, 11:59 AM
Bump- So i can post more tech stuff tonight.

Daiichidoku
12-10-2004, 10:29 PM
Got any info on this, Coperhead?

Spring 43 Lt. Col Cass S Hough USAAF dived a P 47C at transonic speed, and the fitting of 'compressability recovery flaps' followed on P 47s. Made from alloy sheet, these electrically-operated flaps were hinged to the auxiliary spar aft of the wheels wells ahead of the main flasps, and were designed to to assist with recovery from very fast dives.

Funny, never get compressability in FB with Jug...were these flaps auto IRL?

Copperhead310th
12-11-2004, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
Got any info on this, Coperhead?

Spring 43 Lt. Col Cass S Hough USAAF dived a P 47C at transonic speed, and the fitting of 'compressability recovery flaps' followed on P 47s. Made from alloy sheet, these electrically-operated flaps were hinged to the auxiliary spar aft of the wheels wells ahead of the main flasps, and were designed to to assist with recovery from very fast dives.

Funny, never get compressability in FB with Jug...were these flaps auto IRL? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

got me there man. never heard of them.

IL2-chuter
12-11-2004, 01:45 PM
Now class....who can tell me what each of these levers is for??? Contrary to popular belife the Thunderbolt pilots had the ability to control all engine managemnt fuctions both MANUALLY as well as AUTOMATICALLY.

Define, please.

Manual control would be as in game now, separate prop (rpm select), mixture and throttle. Automatic control would be equivelant to . . . non CEM?

There was a unified control (??? Roberts control ???) on the last Mustangs as well.