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pmatthews83
10-14-2005, 02:23 PM
Do taskforces become more frequent later on in the War. I've made it to late '41 before turning my boat into an artificial reef in the English Channel. I did so by following Bdu's orders ("Be more aggressive!"). Even so, I have yet to see a warship larger than a destroyer. It gets kind of boring sneaking up on a poor unsuspecting merchant in the middle of the night. The most they can do is start zigzagging.

Also, the RuB question. Did it realistically take five minutes (game time) to reload a deck gun? That is ridiculous by any military standard. An armed merchant can deal one hell of a beating when they can fire three shots to your one. I'm not so sure this is accurate.

Kaleun1961
10-14-2005, 02:53 PM
The rate of fire issue has been dealt with numerous times, with cogent arguments put forth by both sides of the issue. I advise that you do what seems best to you.

There are several ways of adjusting the rate of fire. You can use various mods. SH3 Commander allows you to customize the rate of fire, so even though using RUb, you can still modify that part.

I think that the very slow rates of fire by people using RUb is due to two factors: the rate of fire set by that mod, then the effect of crew fatigue added. Between those two, you can experience a very slow rate of fire. It's best to have rested men on the guns and pull them off when they are fatigued.

froschman
10-14-2005, 03:29 PM
I did my military service in the artillery. On 150 mm field guns we could fire 5 - 8 shots per minute, and for 100 mm guns it was about 15 shots per minute. That was when the grenades were present and prepared at the gun. Did you have to hold them from somewhere else, as here from the interior of a uboat, there were pauses until new grenades had arrived.

Froschman

W.Irving
10-14-2005, 03:39 PM
Appearance of task forces do seem to increase in probability later on, as with convoys and large merchants.

15 rounds on solid ground? How about in a raging storm, to simulate a small moving sea vessel? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I would expect 2-3 rounds per minute would make for a pretty good average.

Kaleun1961
10-14-2005, 03:52 PM
I will briefly recap what I understand from Beeryus, the RUb mod designer, in case he does not post here.

According to Beeryus, the first 20 rounds for the deck gun were stored in a ready locker near the main gun. Once these were exhausted, the remaining rounds had to be daisy-chained up from inside the boat. His slow rate of fire attempts to simulate this.

There are others who argue in favour of a higher rate of fire. However, the game mechanism does not allow the modelling of ready-use ammo and internal storage of the rest. The RUb mod is a compromise in light of this fact, and is intended to simulate the rate of fire over a long engagement, like say a one hour gunnery action on a merchant vessel.

U-boats used their guns mainly against cripples and low value targets. They did not often, if at all, engage in gunnery duels with merchant ships, because they were too vulnerable to that one fluke shot which might puncture their pressure hull and therefore make diving impossible.

I hope I have made a good defense of Beeryus' reasons. I'm not taking sides here, just trying to shed some light on the issue as I understand it. The way I handle it is to use SH3 Commander to set my rate of fire. I let the crew fire the first 20 rounds, or occasionally I fire them myself, then by means of my orders I slow down the rate of fire for the remaining rounds, to simulate the manhandling of shells from inside the boat to the crew topside.

I've heard some pretty good arguments from both sides on this issue, so it is somewhat difficult for me to take sides for one side or against another. Both sides argue this issue very well, which is why I suppose it is such a long standing issue that hasn't been definitively resolved one way or the other. Beeryus, by means of his mods, allows us freedom of choice, for which I salute him.

Pr0metheus 1962
10-14-2005, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by pmatthews83:
Also, the RuB question. Did it realistically take five minutes (game time) to reload a deck gun? That is ridiculous by any military standard. An armed merchant can deal one hell of a beating when they can fire three shots to your one. I'm not so sure this is accurate.

If it's taking your crew five minutes to reload the gun, you must have left exhausted men at the guns. The reload time is a minute for the 88mm and 1 minute 20 seconds for the 105mm gun. It takes this long because 90% of the ammo had to be brought up to the deck manually from inside the boat, and with only 3 loaders on deck at any one time.

Yes, even a minute seems ridiculous when the fact is that quick-firing guns like these could be reloaded in six seconds, but it's not the reloading time that's at issue - it's bringing the ammo to the gun that takes all the time.

pmatthews83
10-15-2005, 07:48 AM
Thanks for your answers to my question Beeryus and Kaleun. The only reason I asked is I, too, served in the US Army. It does make more sense having to bring the ammunition up from the ship. As to the comments about fatigue. All of the men on watch were fulling restored, although it was only the second patrol and they were all the lowest rank seamen.

Pr0metheus 1962
10-15-2005, 12:54 PM
Probably the experience bar wasn't filled. There are slowdowns for certain compartments and stations if the experience bar is below full capacity.