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View Full Version : ***A Christmas Present for all the BF-109 Fans here!***



cawimmer430
12-25-2007, 07:27 AM
Here's my little Christmas treat for the forum!

A genuine Messerschmitt BF-109 E3 from the Deutsches Museum in Munich. This aircraft was delivered to Spain along with 39 other E3's a few days before the outbreak of World War II and served until 1959 (!!!) with the Spanish Airforce. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Here's the history of the plane. It was built in 1938 in Erla under license. The factory production code is "790". The powerplant upfront is a Daimler-Benz DB601 A with 1,100-horsepower. The top speed of the E3 was 570 km/h. It was armed with two 7.92mm machine guns behind the propeller and two 20mm wing cannons. The range of the aircraft was poor with 560 km (280 km combat radius).

I wish I could have gotten closer shots of the cockpit but my lens is really weak. And a better lens costs a fortune! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Anyway, Merry Xmas and enjoy! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_01.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_02.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_04.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_05.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_08.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_11.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_10.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_12.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_14.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_15b.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_15a.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_16.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_17.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_18.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_22.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_21.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_23.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_24.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_25.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_26.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_27.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_28.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_29.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_30.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_32.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_33.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_34.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_36.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s235/cawimmer430c/BF-109E3/BF-109E_37.jpg

Hope you liked the pics! More airplane pics of the Deutsches Museum coming up soon! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Dance
12-25-2007, 07:32 AM
lol, superb, merry christmas indeed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Spinnetti
12-25-2007, 08:02 AM
Thanks!

I love that museum, though I don't get there much as its 6,000 miles away!

sgt.dumpster
12-25-2007, 08:21 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gifNow thats what I'm TALKING ABOUT!!!!!----Also that ladies eyes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif are glued to that beautiful bright light green propeller hub.Just what i want for x-mas thanx Christian Santa!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif----Astrogoth

jadger
12-25-2007, 08:28 AM
Why's that JU52 in French colours?

Dance
12-25-2007, 08:38 AM
They used several ex-Luftwaffe types after the war, including the Ju-88 as well iirc, as the Spanish used 109's and He-111's (many re-engined with Merlins).

BSS_Sniper
12-25-2007, 08:57 AM
Those are great shots for sure! One thing is bugging me though. Those don't look like 20mm in the wings. Anyone confirm just to put my mind at rest?

Dance
12-25-2007, 09:43 AM
Early E3's had MG17 in the wings, later ones 2 MG FF, they look like MG FF to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EDIT: Despite the MG in the name, the FF was a 20mm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kurfurst__
12-25-2007, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by BSS_Sniper:
Those are great shots for sure! One thing is bugging me though. Those don't look like 20mm in the wings. Anyone confirm just to put my mind at rest?

That`s an 20mm FF allright - yes it`s a small and compact cannon, but the shape of the muzzle is a give-away. The 7.92mm machineguns when mounted in the wing were fully inside the wing, you can only see two very big circular holes in the leading edge, but no barrel in protounding. So if you see guns sticking out, they are MG FF and an E-3 (or later), if no guns just big holes, it`s a 7.92mm MG 17 machinegun and it`s an E-1. E-1s carried MGs, E-3 carried cannons in the wing but both appeared at the same time in late 1938; this E-3s seems to be one of those early ones sent into Spain in spring 1939, a true veteran indeed!

Some E-1s were converted to have cannon armament though, and they may or may not have been restamped as E-3s on their dataplates.

Fantastic pictures, thanks for sharing, though I am a bit ambivalent about cutting holes into such an old plane - probably the oldest survivining Me 109...? :/

Dance
12-25-2007, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
E-1s carried MGs, E-3 carried cannons in the wing but both appeared at the same time in late 1938

Ahh, my mistake, I was confusing E1's being converted to E3's by fitting the MG FF, but glad I recognised they were FF in these pictures http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

knightflyte
12-25-2007, 10:32 AM
Boy Oleg's really upped the realism factor. LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Beautiful carwimmer. I'd expect more folks there visiting Deutsches Museum. I'm surprised.

Thanks for posting these.

JG52Uther
12-25-2007, 10:37 AM
Excellent!

Schwarz.13
12-25-2007, 10:48 AM
Excellent photos once again Christian, thanks!

Any particular reason it was painted with the JG51 emblem after serving with the Spanish Air Force before/during/after the war???

@BSS_Sniper: those are definately MG FF 20mm cannon - you can see examples of them not only on Emils but on FW190s as the outboard cannon up until the A-6 version when they were armed with all 4 MG151/20s...

Chris

gedunkman
12-25-2007, 11:35 AM
S~

Great detail shots sir!
Thank you.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

sky-demon
12-25-2007, 02:35 PM
nice, great technology those planes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
thanks

slipBall
12-25-2007, 02:54 PM
Just stunning!....now, about those key's

Platypus_1.JaVA
12-26-2007, 09:30 AM
Nice aircraft. And all original, that is rare!

Altough i feel sorry for all the spanish pilots who have flown the 109 (and the Ha-112 Buchon) you never ever see one of them in Spanish colors.

Edbert
12-26-2007, 02:43 PM
Nice example, but whomever painted the insignias needs to be fired, or given new glasses at least.

Choctaw111
12-26-2007, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by BSS_Sniper:
Those are great shots for sure! One thing is bugging me though. Those don't look like 20mm in the wings. Anyone confirm just to put my mind at rest?

Maybe they are mockups... or are they the real deal?

GREAT photos btw http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

DuxCorvan
12-26-2007, 04:08 PM
Just a note: that claim about the Bf 109 E-3 serving with the "Ejército del Aire" (Spanish AF) till 1959 must be an error. The E-3 models served, along E-1s, in three squadrons of the 25th "Grupo" till 1953, when *all of them* were retired.

Till 1959 -and even later- served the G models and local CASA and Hispano developments -like the Merlin-engined "Buchón".

jadger
12-26-2007, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Dance:
They used several ex-Luftwaffe types after the war, including the Ju-88 as well iirc, as the Spanish used 109's and He-111's (many re-engined with Merlins).

I knew that, I meant, what is the story behind that particular aircraft? just curious as he was obvious at the museum

Dance
12-26-2007, 05:13 PM
I guess CW only had eyes for the Emil, or maybe we have more visual treats and history of the Auntie to come http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

310th Falcon
12-26-2007, 07:23 PM
Outstanding photos...of course you are using Nikon...the camera of choice.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Best Regards

general_kalle
12-27-2007, 04:28 AM
Swiss storch in the bagground
nice paint job

Blutarski2004
12-27-2007, 05:13 AM
Can't recommend the Deutsches Museum in Munich too highly; it's a must-see.

Are the Auto-Union Grand Prix cars still on display there?

cawimmer430
12-27-2007, 08:16 AM
Glad you guys liked the shots! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And don't worry, I PHOTOGRAPHED EVERY AIRPLANE at the place. I just took so many shots and I have to sort them out, but expect another thread tonight. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

By the way, I forgot to mention that the info plaque on this E3 said that towards the alte 1950s, it served as a "training" aircraft for both pilots and mechanics. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif



Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
Are the Auto-Union Grand Prix cars still on display there?

Sadly no. But they had a lot of automotive engines on display. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Vike
12-27-2007, 03:45 PM
Great!! Thanks Cawimmer,these photos are fantastic! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
I am a bit ambivalent about cutting holes into such an old plane - probably the oldest survivining Me 109...? :/

Same feelings here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

@+

Billy_BigBoy
12-27-2007, 03:50 PM
You are teasing me, aren't you?


Great pictures though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG27_Dierk3er
12-27-2007, 04:03 PM
Love this bird too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6451/109ir5.jpg

JG52Uther
12-27-2007, 04:20 PM
Looks better without the big hole in the side! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/JG52Uther/109ir5.jpg

F0_Dark_P
12-27-2007, 04:26 PM
Just beautiful! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

btw i love the older style of the canopy, it flows so fine with the rest of the fuselage.. se pic no: 22

JG52Uther
12-27-2007, 04:43 PM
A bit OT but,as this is the model of 109 we are getting for SoW (alledgedly) did it have any armour?

JG27_Dierk3er
12-27-2007, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Looks better without the big hole in the side! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


ROFL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

THX http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Avont29
12-27-2007, 10:52 PM
thanks! that was really sweet

im not a huge 109 fan but damn that skin is really sexy

if that skin was in the game i would definately want to fly the bird a lot

cawimmer430
12-28-2007, 02:56 AM
Once again, ANYTIME. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I got to run... working on another aircraft picture thread as we speak! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bremspropeller
12-28-2007, 12:23 PM
As a sidenote for those who don't know:

The 109 wears JG 51 'Mölders' insignias.

Dierk carries the current Luftwaffe/ Heeresflieger pilot-jacket.
On his left chest (on our right) is the insignia of today's JG 74 "Mölders" based in Neuburg.
The traditional name "Mölders", however, was taken away from the wing a few years ago due to leftist lobbyism.

JG 74 recently transitioned to Eurofighters.

JG27_Dierk3er
12-28-2007, 01:10 PM
Thats right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif/ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2807/mlderses3.jpg

Kurfurst__
12-28-2007, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
A bit OT but,as this is the model of 109 we are getting for SoW (alledgedly) did it have any armour?

By BoB, it`s rather like that most/all did, but it`s an area (Emil and armor) that is very poorly covered...

My vague guess is that the earliest Emil production didn`t have armor (that is, a guess - it`s totally unsupported, it`s rather just circumstancial evidence). Armor plating in fighters was an exception and not a rule in the 1930s, and foreign evaluation reports of the Emil remain silent on the subject..

Then they added the first armor plate - the December 1939 Emil E-1/E-3 short manual for example warns that the weight of armor is not presented in the weight tables, which points that by that time they already installed armor plates. Of course this could have happened earlier. This armor layout appear to be somewhat different than the later 109s, in that they were not immidietaly behind the pilot`s back, but some 1 meter behind him. On the plus side, it was relatively thick (8mm) compared to the thin plates installed in RAF fighters and offered solid protection not only to the pilot but also the fuel tank behind the pilot; the downside was that shots with deflection could bypass it completely because of the rear position. I am not sure about the latter since there are some sources that point to that there was a plate immidiately behind the pilot as well, and even the radiator is claimed to be armored by a 5mm plate... but since the sources for the Emil are few, it` difficult to verify (and the Emil parts manual is certainly no help in this regard) what was the actual case.

There was no head armor at first - a mixed thing again since at least the rear view was unobstructed by it - but it was installed at around the time of the Battle of France : a 10mm plate with rather good protection from large angles of attack, but blocking the rear view. It was retrofitted to all models and easily checkable on contemporary pictures.

Finally it seems that an external armored glass or Panzerglass become available at around the time the Battle of France concluded, but it was not fitted to too many Emils. I guess the upcoming campaign, fought mainly against fighters and not bombers with defensive guns, did not warrant it. A few pictures of this were posted a while ago in a thread at ubi, unfortunately I did not get the time yet to post the others.

Anyway, to answer your question, I believe the BoB-era 109Es and the E-3 we will see (another puzzling move from 1C, given it was replaced largely by the E-4 = E-3 with the Mineshell-firing MG-FF/M cannon) should have at least the 8mm rear plate and the 10mm armored head piece.. I can`t see the latter though on some later screenshots. Oleg posted some pictures a week ago,but they don`t show the internals like armor highlighted on the Emil (the Spit he posted however is a different kind of 3D model type, it shows guns and armor nicely. Great DM..)

JG52Uther
12-28-2007, 02:23 PM
Thanks Kurfy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif