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La7_brook
12-21-2006, 11:13 AM
now this looks good if ya into tanks http://www.simhq.com/_land2/land_072a.html

crazyivan1970
12-21-2006, 11:17 AM
Something i was waiting for ...a long time. 2007 will be brilliant...every desire fulfilled http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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clayman_52
12-21-2006, 11:34 AM
Me too, I've been looking forward to this. Yup ... 2007 has a LOT going on!

mrsiCkstar
12-21-2006, 11:50 AM
that thing looks so good.

2007 will be sim heaven, this, bob and KoS http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif damn! so many sims to play, so little time!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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freiw44
12-21-2006, 11:56 AM
ONly thing worrying is that the makers of this tank sim made the t-72. I can`t say enough how sub-beta that release was, and how extremely poor the tehnical support was.

But all in all it was pretty fun.

HayateAce
12-21-2006, 12:06 PM
Will be difficult getting players to join red.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Poor T34s.......

Seriously, count me in for a copy of that sim.

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general_kalle
12-21-2006, 12:24 PM
wauw. im probably gonna get it

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Saturnalia
12-21-2006, 01:44 PM
For those with little willpower, try Red Orchestra (http://www.redorchestragame.com) for the time being. East Front multiplayer fps on the UT2004 engine, not as realistic as IL-2 (still a few bugs in tank penetration) but loads of fun stomping around as a rifleman or in an IS-2. You just missed a free weekend, but it's still a great buy.

AVG_WarHawk
12-21-2006, 05:21 PM
Nice looking terrain, looking forward to this one.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/AVG_WarHawk/land_072a_011.jpg
Even has wildflowers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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faustnik
12-21-2006, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Will be difficult getting players to join red.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Poor T34s.......

Seriously, count me in for a copy of that sim.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

There are a lot of us that will be very happy to crew the T-34s. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif The 85mms will work just fine.

I'm sure this is why they picked the tank set, to give both sides a shot. T-34s have mobility (and numbers hopefully), Tigers have the long range firepower.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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BillyTheKid_22
12-21-2006, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Will be difficult getting players to join red.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Poor T34s.......

Seriously, count me in for a copy of that sim.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

YES!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Kurfurst__
12-21-2006, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
There are a lot of us that will be very happy to crew the T-34s. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif The 85mms will work just fine.

I'm sure this is why they picked the tank set, to give both sides a shot. T-34s have mobility (and numbers hopefully), Tigers have the long range firepower.

Indeed. The Soviet 85mm gun is quite capable of putting holes in the Tiger I. Not from every angle, and on every plate (the turret front is a big no-no, but the hull/superstructure front is vulnerable out to 500-1000m!).

The 88mm of course will quite simply wreck the T-34 at almost any distance. The T-34/85 will have better mobility, perhaps turret traverse time (depends on which model of the Tiger I, if late it can be a toss-up) and I bet everyone will just love the Tiger's fine Zeiss optics.

The trickier part is the less foes (PzIVH and T-34/76). While the Tiger is quite immune to the T-34/76, the players T-34/85 has to watch out for those lang sieben-komma-f??nfs.

Good match IMHO. With human players, it won't be about slugfest which of course the Tiger has better chances. Tactics, manouvering and getting the first hit by surprise will be the deciding factor.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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AVG_WarHawk
12-21-2006, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Indeed. The Soviet 85mm gun is quite capable of putting holes in the Tiger I. Not from every angle, and on every plate (the turret front is a big no-no, but the hull/superstructure front is vulnerable out to 500-1000m!).

The 88mm of course will quite simply wreck the T-34 at almost any distance. The T-34/85 will have better mobility, perhaps turret traverse time (depends on which model of the Tiger I, if late it can be a toss-up) and I bet everyone will just love the Tiger's fine Zeiss optics.

The trickier part is the less foes (PzIVH and T-34/76). While the Tiger is quite immune to the T-34/76, the players T-34/85 has to watch out for those lang sieben-komma-f??nfs.

Good match IMHO. With human players, it won't be about slugfest which of course the Tiger has better chances. Tactics, manouvering and getting the first hit by surprise will be the deciding factor.

Fortunately for the Tiger I, no 50 cal. will be present on the ETO.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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HayateAce
12-21-2006, 07:00 PM
Yes, T34/85 will get its licks in, but there will be some Bobby Woll types online who will lay off at the far edge of the map and wreak havoc. If modeled properly, German optics will be a nightmare for the Russkies.

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BillyTheKid_22
12-21-2006, 08:10 PM
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icrash
12-21-2006, 10:33 PM
God I hope these guys are right about the AI. That is the one thing in RO that drives me bonkers. It is like I end up with 1 or 2 of the three stooges in my tank. Did the German optics use any type of range finder? I ran across something that said all range estimates were done by the gunner because the sights lacked anything to estimate range.

Bewolf
12-22-2006, 12:16 AM
German optics displayed something that could be considered a rangefinder. They had a couple of triangles displayed in the optics to determine distance by comparing size, kinda similiar to german Periscope rangefinding. All you needed to know was the dimensions of the enemy tank to determine it's distance. That arrangement was so good that often enough the first shot was a hit already.

It's too long ago that I played Panzer Elite to give you the details now, but maybe do a google search to come up with something.

AFAIK, none of the allies had something similiar.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Bewolf

Never discuss with stupid people.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

WWMaxGunz
12-22-2006, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
While the Tiger is quite immune to the T-34/76,

Uh-huh. Typical you take good things and push for the extra kilometer.

Tiger was not immune everywhere to that 76mm. There is record of Tiger I being killed by
37mm from around 50 feet behind on a perpendicular hit. Engine killed with US all around.
What is German for "oops"?

Go to your extensive records and see if you have how many Tigers were killed and how if you
can find. Side and rear armor were not invincible. Actual gun mount was less than frontal
armor strong. Tracks, road wheels and other places not invincible were taught in 'enemy'
schools.

Just run Tiger less than half as far as many others and it pins itself in place....

Same was for the armored knights Teutonic or otherwise. Bad news to others for sure but
the heavy metal is not everywhere and once knocked off the high horse only have scrap value.

And BTW, not every hit with 88mm goes inside T-34. Glancing hits on targets not aligned
flat to the shooter were and are still a fact.

So why the high overly proud attitude? Why take the extra steps into BS-land? This is
not a card game or a fight so why bluff with BS? Is it reflex? Ring the Pavlov bell of
"German superiority" and your mouth waters? I don't get it because 90% of what you post
is so very good I think that unless you have country sized blind spot you MUST know the
places you step off into kiddie fantasies.

Oh well, US has the Hayate types and they are higher percent of BS but every lie needs at
least some truth to hold it up. Thing is, I am not dissapointed by that moron because he
IS one while you -- what is your excuse? Maybe I don't want to know, it may be sexual.

Bewolf
12-22-2006, 12:40 AM
Ugh, Max, keep it down.

Kurf??rst is kinda right here. He said "quite immune", not "absolutely undestroyable"; and at normal engagement ranges around 1000m where tanks present their frontal hulls at the opposition that is mostly true. If you go into detail examaning different apporaches towards enemy tanks, the side, the back, you are spot on. Every tank has its weak points, the Tiger no exception. But under normal cir***stances, especially in areas without a lot of cover the Tiger was, arguable, that good.

No reason to explode like the way you did making this thread another slug fest.


EDIT: LOLOLOL! I can't even type cir C U M stances anymore. Ok, that is too hillarious, just made my morning http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Bewolf

Never discuss with stupid people.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

HayateAce
12-22-2006, 01:00 AM
Don't go too hard on MiniGunz. I think his wife left him last week. Or was it his dog?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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woofiedog
12-22-2006, 01:06 AM
If you want a bit of pregame practice... check out the Demo here...

Link: http://www.battlefront.com/products/t72/demo.html

T-72 Balkans on Fire!

The demo is 171 megs in size and contains three playable missions. Two training missions with the T-72B and one exciting combat mission where the player commands a T-55A tank. Additionally, the in-game 3D Encyclopedia allows you to explore all the units featured in the full game. This demo is based on the all new v1.3 version of the game and includes all the updated features and fixes from the patch.

NOTE: The demo requires you to have the latest DIVX video playback codecs installed to play. If you launch the demo and only see the Purchase Now / Puchase Later Screen, you will need to update your DIVX Codecs, which you can download, for free, from this link:<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Bewolf
12-22-2006, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Don't go too hard on MiniGunz. I think his wife left him last week. Or was it his dog?

Ok, Hayateace offending a guy that attacked Kurf??rst.


I think world doom is imminent.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Bewolf

Never discuss with stupid people.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

WWMaxGunz
12-22-2006, 01:39 AM
Beowulf, that 1000m and frontal is idealized. Between hills, depressions, trees, buildings
and other cover/concealment there were many close encounters.

I give example maybe you find good. The early career of Michael Wittmann, IMO undisputed
armor ace who hunted, surprised and destroyed many Russian AT guns while he commanded
Sturmgeshutz only! He did not make frontal attacks nor sit and plink from 100's of meters.
He used maneuver then fire when he made his attacks, quite like Hartmann in some sense.
This is the same guy that rolled along next to an entire British armored column (okay, they
were having lunch or tea-time) and killed over 20 tanks in almost calm fashion rather than
by sitting off at extreme range and taking shots.

The 37mm Tiger kill was from a US M8 recon car. Tiger went by and it popped out of the bushes
and ran right up to the rear of the Tiger while the Tiger was still traversing that big gun.
How the commander knew enough to place his and his crews lives on the line I can only guess
but it worked for them.

Military reality is that if such a tank sits on a hill and destroys your own from far, you
don't just sit there and joust. You hide. You pop smoke to cover advance and call big arty
and if possible, airstrikes onto that hill. And while that is going on your armor moves.

It bothers me that someone so intelligent, informed and well-sourced keeps making those kinds
of statements. T-34/76 to flank or rear or very close range had to be cause for worry of
Tiger VIe crew especially and VIb crew to real extent. Would YOU want to be in a tank with
a commander that speaks so?

WWMaxGunz
12-22-2006, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Don't go too hard on MiniGunz. I think his wife left him last week. Or was it his dog?

The dog. She had to go home for Christmas. Hope you got your momma a good present this time.

HayateAce
12-22-2006, 01:54 AM
Indeed, world doom is close at hand.

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Bewolf
12-22-2006, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Beowulf, that 1000m and frontal is idealized. Between hills, depressions, trees, buildings
and other cover/concealment there were many close encounters.

I give example maybe you find good. The early career of Michael Wittmann, IMO undisputed
armor ace who hunted, surprised and destroyed many Russian AT guns while he commanded
Sturmgeshutz only! He did not make frontal attacks nor sit and plink from 100's of meters.
He used maneuver then fire when he made his attacks, quite like Hartmann in some sense.
This is the same guy that rolled along next to an entire British armored column (okay, they
were having lunch or tea-time) and killed over 20 tanks in almost calm fashion rather than
by sitting off at extreme range and taking shots.

The 37mm Tiger kill was from a US M8 recon car. Tiger went by and it popped out of the bushes
and ran right up to the rear of the Tiger while the Tiger was still traversing that big gun.
How the commander knew enough to place his and his crews lives on the line I can only guess
but it worked for them.

Military reality is that if such a tank sits on a hill and destroys your own from far, you
don't just sit there and joust. You hide. You pop smoke to cover advance and call big arty
and if possible, airstrikes onto that hill. And while that is going on your armor moves.

It bothers me that someone so intelligent, informed and well-sourced keeps making those kinds
of statements. T-34/76 to flank or rear or very close range had to be cause for worry of
Tiger VIe crew especially and VIb crew to real extent. Would YOU want to be in a tank with
a commander that speaks so?

Max, it is also possible the 50ies can kill a tiger or a sharp shooter hits the small area the driver looks out. And I am sure it happend. If you go by such incidents and make them the norm to judge tank value one yould stripa tank from all its armor and just let him go, as everything is possible anyways. That is no ground to judge a tanks worth. With the right tactics Biplanes can shoot down jets as well. but let's stay realistic, kay? I am pretty sure if we both had to chose a vehicle from that time and I got myself a Tiger you'd not want to be in an M8.

And Wittman used concealment tactics also when he got his Tiger. Both sides can play that game, not just T34s, and at close ranges pretty much everything is possible. So we are back to the standart 1000 meters and more engangement ranges, which happend often enough, especially on the large plains of russia.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Bewolf

Never discuss with stupid people.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Lazy312
12-22-2006, 02:39 AM
I sometimes play Red Orchestra online.. Yes there are some things not modelled at 100%, however Tiger clearly has better gun and armor than both versions of T-34. My experience is following:

Hitting moving tanks at great distances is very hard task, even in open terrain. Spending half of ammo and revealing own position to enemy is not worth it most of the time. At close distances any tank can damage or kill Tiger if you don't shoot its front side.

Good team with T-34/76 will wipe out weak team with Tigers. So while having Tiger is big advantage, it's far from having automatic success or being invulnerable. In the end, the outcome of combat depends on crews and teamwork more than anything else.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

wooden planes, iron men

tools4foolsA
12-22-2006, 02:42 AM
And BTW, not every hit with 88mm goes inside T-34. Glancing hits on targets not aligned
flat to the shooter were and are still a fact.

It's not so much the angle of the hit that makes the shot glance off, but the 'increased thickness of armour' (due to angle hit) the shot has to penetrate.
I the case of a T-34 vs the 88 L56 that won't happen too often and if then on a range where T-34 certainly has a problem with Tigers armour.

And btw, Tigers were often moved into an angled position towards the enemy to use this effect.


T-34/76 to flank or rear or very close range had to be cause for worry of
Tiger VIe crew especially and VIb crew to real extent.

That's why Kurfurst said "quite"...not 'totally'

Indeed if a T34/76 can penetrate a Tigers side or rear armour from ranges less than 500m hit dead on (no big impact angle), then Tiger I is not 'totally' invulnerable. But he sure has a distinct disadvantage...
And sure no Tiger (or any other tank) commander will like having any other enemy tank in his rear.

And as interesting those stories of killing Tigers with 37mm M* are, they are exceptions. Extraordinary exceptions.
There is supposed to be one who destroyed a Tiger (or some other German superheavy) with a 37mm round down the gun barrel...

Another point not to neglect is that a Pz IV easily could have turned into a Tiger as for a lot of allieds every german Tank was a Tiger...
So we can't be sure that this destroyed Tiger actually was a Tiger. (Even if it was a Pz IV it still would be a fabulous achievment).


*****

Kurfurst__
12-22-2006, 05:00 AM
Hmm... in real-life desert trials against a captured Tiger I in North Africa, shots were a brand new (=not worn out, ie. reduced MV) Sherman 75mm tank gun at the side of the Tiger, with normal full caliber 75 APCBC projectile... 82mm armor thickness.

The minimum conditions for successfully penetrating the Tiger's side armor were :

Shooting distance no greater than 100 yards (91 meters)
Hit angle no more than 17.5 degrees

The Soviet 76.2mm F-34 gun of the T-34/76 was quie comparable, whereas the projectiles were inferior as they lacked the AP cap vs the American design.

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&...id=6&id=33&Itemid=49 (http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=6&id=33&Itemid=49)

With BR-350A AP round, at 80mm armor can be pierced at 100meter distance with 20% probability if the hit is a perfect 90 degree one, at 60 degrees it may peneterate around 200m but only with 20% probability.

With BR-350B AP round, at 80mm armor can be pierced at 300meter distance with 80% probability if the hit is a perfect 90 degree one, at 60 degrees it penetrates with 20% probability.

With the limited issue BR-350P subcaliber AP round, at 80mm armor can be pierced at 500+ meters distance* with 80% probability if the hit is a perfect 90 degree one, at 60 degrees at around 400m it penetrates with 80% probability.


*No data available for beyond 500m.

The turret is more difficult as it's presents a lot of curved surface, the turret front is big no-no, (even tricky with the 85mm gun), whereas the relatively vulnerable hull front armor can be penetrated with the 76.2mm F-34 at... at 100 m distance, perfect 90 degree hit angle, using the special tungsten cored subcaliber BR-350P ammunition.

And yeah, the Tiger just sits there and enjoys being fired at in the meantime.

Of course, perfect 90 degree hits are exceedingly rare, might as said that they only exist in test ranges. There was a kinda reason while tankers developed the habit of sh*tting themselves when 'Tiiigeerrr!' was shouted into the intercom.

And BTW, simply trick against T-34/85 (or any other). Turn the Tiger's chasses 45 degree to even the T-34/85, and face him with turret. You have effectively a 45 degree sloped 100mm hull armor on the front, 45 degree effectively sloped 80mm armor on the side facing him, and a turret armor ranging 140 to 180mm.. from that on, it's turkey shot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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RCAF_Irish_403
12-22-2006, 05:40 AM
if random mechanical failures and breakdowns are modeled, i would choose the T34/85 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Originally posted by marc_hawkins:
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. A 108:0 kill ratio is insignificant next to the power of the Force

http://www.fas.org/main/home.jsp

tools4foolsA
12-22-2006, 05:59 AM
if random mechanical failures and breakdowns are modeled, i would choose the T34/85 whisper

Would you when lack of training and tactics would allow only charging buttoned up tanks forward not responding to commands?

****

flakwagen
12-22-2006, 06:08 AM
Balkans On Fire impressed me as being a poorly programmed pile of 3rd rate **** when I originally tried the demo. The premise of the game was also poorly thought out. But I don't think I've tried the new 1.3 version- I'll d/l it and see. Everybody deserves a 2nd chance.

Flak

woofiedog
12-22-2006, 06:34 AM
flakwagen... Have to agree with the first demo of FoB. But the second one is a bit better.
I had both for a while on my computer and almost picked up the game.

I'm sure that what was lacking in FoB is corrected in the T vs T-34.
FoB did have some Very Good graphic's though for a tank game. Just needed a little more devolopment.

Should add... there are two different Demo's.
One that you battle the Leopard Tank and the other the Commando Raid.

Commando Raid is the one I find better.

RCAF_Irish_403
12-22-2006, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by tools4foolsA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">if random mechanical failures and breakdowns are modeled, i would choose the T34/85 whisper

Would you when lack of training and tactics would allow only charging buttoned up tanks forward not responding to commands?

**** </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

something must have gotten lost in translation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Originally posted by marc_hawkins:
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. A 108:0 kill ratio is insignificant next to the power of the Force

http://www.fas.org/main/home.jsp

Bewolf
12-22-2006, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
if random mechanical failures and breakdowns are modeled, i would choose the T34/85 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AFAIK, even though the Tigers breakdowns were there and noticeable, they were not "that" way much higher in comparison to other tank designs. Especially the T34/76 series suffered from poor manufacturing quality, something that was only partially resolved in the /85 version.

I am open to be proven wrong here, though.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Bewolf

Never discuss with stupid people.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

RCAF_Irish_403
12-22-2006, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by Bewolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
if random mechanical failures and breakdowns are modeled, i would choose the T34/85 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AFAIK, even though the Tigers breakdowns were there and noticeable, they were not "that" way much higher in comparison to other tank designs. Especially the T34/76 series suffered from poor manufacturing quality, something that was only partially resolved in the /85 version.

I am open to be proven wrong here, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't the first couple Mk Panthers suffer huge losses to breakdowns?

I'm pretty sure that part of the problem with the Tiger tank was that it wasn't easily repaired at the front (ie: it had to be shipped to the experts for repair behind the lines)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Originally posted by marc_hawkins:
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. A 108:0 kill ratio is insignificant next to the power of the Force

http://www.fas.org/main/home.jsp

tools4foolsA
12-22-2006, 07:20 AM
something must have gotten lost in translation Confused

Model Tigers limitations (breakdowns) then model T-34's limitations too...
Poorly trained crews (at least eralier in the war), tank blind and no radios (for most 76mm variants), etc, etc.
And to top of it you can use the tank only in limited 'tactical modes' - like 'mad charge forward'...

Of course that makes all no sense as at the end the game has still to be an enjoyable and playable game. Wouldn't make sense that the fellow who choses Tiger simply has no tank available because it supposedly broke down on the way to battle.
Nor would it be fun if other T-34's of your platoon just charge mad forward right into the enemys guns and not listening to any orders...

Battlefronts BtB had an interesting approach to it; tanks with no cupola and no radio would have a long command delay, much longer than tanks with radios, etc.
Kind of makes a difference if your tanks react to your orders in 10-15 seconds or in 126 seconds... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


And yes, Tiger readyiness was somewhere slightly below 70% while PzIV was slightly above 70% according to some numbers I had seen posted. I have never seen any numbers posted about t-34 readiness however.
Unrealiability is quite well described by Carius in his book 'Tigers in the mud'; he does not mention any breakdowns in battle situations (out of action by getting stuck or by shrapnel damaging cooling systems, etc, etc, all there, but nothing due to mechanical failure). However he states as well that a good driver is needed not putting too much strain on the tank (he mentions 20km/h 'cruise' speed for road marches, plus short stops for maintenance.
In another instant he shows how Jagdtigers break down one after the other with unexpereinced drivers trying to race as fast as possible for longger distances and boing, there goes the transmission...

Its kind of like the 'engine overheating' in IL-2; if you continue going at 110% sooner or later there will be consequences.
*****

tools4foolsA
12-22-2006, 07:29 AM
Didn't the first couple Mk Panthers suffer huge losses to breakdowns?

Yes, indeed, rushed into service and not really combat ready. Issue was solved afterwards.

But Panther and Tiger is not same same...

As for the repairs, Carius writes in his book often what a fantastic job the repair crews did and how he could get repaired tanks always at the time promised by the repair crews.
Seems they were in driveable distance to the front as they usually towed disabled Tigers there. And yes, a lot of efforts were made to recover damaged/disabled vehicles as replacements didn't arrive often...

Main disadvantage was that there were never enough Tigers...
...but that doesn't matter so much either (me thinks) because even producing all PzIV (or T-34 or Sherman) there would not never have been enough tanks for the Germans facing the US, UK and USSR...

****

Bewolf
12-22-2006, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
if random mechanical failures and breakdowns are modeled, i would choose the T34/85 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AFAIK, even though the Tigers breakdowns were there and noticeable, they were not "that" way much higher in comparison to other tank designs. Especially the T34/76 series suffered from poor manufacturing quality, something that was only partially resolved in the /85 version.

I am open to be proven wrong here, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't the first couple Mk Panthers suffer huge losses to breakdowns?

I'm pretty sure that part of the problem with the Tiger tank was that it wasn't easily repaired at the front (ie: it had to be shipped to the experts for repair behind the lines) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Panther D suffered quite a bit. As was said before rushed into service too early. The A and G versions though were pretty mich relaibale, on par with the PzKwIV. Don't get confused by the letter designation. The D appeared before the A actually.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Bewolf

Never discuss with stupid people.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

josephs1959
12-22-2006, 07:39 AM
The detail is great you can see the texture of the the steel on the T-34/85.Hopefully they will eventually expand the playable tanks in the game too. Tiger-II,Panther,PZ IV,KV,KV-85,Js-I,JS-II,Su-85,SU-100 ect. ect. Hayate Ace- What scale is that tiger model?