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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:56 PM
What do you guys think about a G-meter for FB.Right now its sorta implemented in the reticule but has more to do with center of gravity than actual G's pulled.Its also toned down alot when you go into "toggle gunsight" view.I aim best when firing from No-cockpit view and I quess that this is the reason the movement is toned down in "toggle gunsight" view.

Pull back hard and the croshairs move down in reticule but as you get inverted the crosshairs moveback up.Go into a hard bank turn and it doesnt move up or down.Does anyone here think that the crosshairs should move with G instead of center of gravity??If it moved with G youll get a better feel of how hard your turning.It can give a better feel ofwhere your bullets will go in relation to where the plane is pointed.I have learned to overcome the lack of feel in FB by letting go of joystick and seeing where the plane is heading and that where the bullets will go.But in real world youllfeel the offset.Just wondering if anyone has thought about this.

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:56 PM
What do you guys think about a G-meter for FB.Right now its sorta implemented in the reticule but has more to do with center of gravity than actual G's pulled.Its also toned down alot when you go into "toggle gunsight" view.I aim best when firing from No-cockpit view and I quess that this is the reason the movement is toned down in "toggle gunsight" view.

Pull back hard and the croshairs move down in reticule but as you get inverted the crosshairs moveback up.Go into a hard bank turn and it doesnt move up or down.Does anyone here think that the crosshairs should move with G instead of center of gravity??If it moved with G youll get a better feel of how hard your turning.It can give a better feel ofwhere your bullets will go in relation to where the plane is pointed.I have learned to overcome the lack of feel in FB by letting go of joystick and seeing where the plane is heading and that where the bullets will go.But in real world youllfeel the offset.Just wondering if anyone has thought about this.

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 12:16 AM
Wolfstriked wrote:
- What do you guys think about a G-meter for FB.

I have allways thought a G-meter would be a good idea for all sims... espically in the old prop dog fight stuff, where it was feel of the pants flying! Not something on the dash, not a guage, but a colored bar at the side of the screen.. not part of the actual cockpit view. Some bold color that moved up n down with G-force... The black out and red out kind of does this.. but those are the end points.. I want some kind of feedback *visualy* to make up for what Im not *feeling* that I would feel in a real situation.


- Right now its sorta implemented in the reticule
- but has more to do with center of gravity than
- actual G's pulled.

Well, as it should, dont know if center of gravity is the word for it, but to get the LEAD you need the G force threw the axis head to toe.


- Its also toned down alot when you go into
- "toggle gunsight" view.

Is it?

- I aim best when firing from No-cockpit view
- and I quess that this is the reason
- the movement is toned down in "toggle gunsight"
- view.

Dont know, I never use that view.

- Pull back hard and the croshairs move down in
- reticule but as you get inverted the crosshairs
- moveback up.

Well.. so far that seems right.. in that now the earth gravity is not adding but subtrating from it.

- Go into a hard bank turn and it doesnt
- move up or down.

Up and Down *relitive* to the AC, or EARTH? In that it shouldnt move up or down relitve to the AC unless you pulling G's in the head to toe axis.

- Does anyone here think that the crosshairs should
- move with G instead of center of gravity??

Ok.. you lost me..


- If it moved with G youll get a better feel
- of how hard your turning.

As it does..

- It can give a better feel of where your bullets
- will go in relation to where the plane is pointed.

Well.. not all AC had lead calculating gun sights..

- I have learned to overcome the
- lack of feel in FB by letting go of joystick and
- seeing where the plane is heading and that where the
- bullets will go. But in real world youllfeel the
- offset. Just wondering if anyone has thought about
- this.

See above

Tagert

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 01:01 AM
Right now the crosshair is completley stationary in center of screen.Its the cockpit that moves relative to what the pilot would feel (I guess).But instead always move the cockpit in relation to g-force.Go inverted and the crosshair moves up in revi and no matter how much you pull the stick back.When I first got IL2 I thought that the revi was calculating lead for me but now know that they dont do that...well some do.Perform a loop and the crosshair falls to one side of revi no matter how level you perform loop.At first I had to keep checking to make sure I was level in loop and now I disregard the crosshair since it doennst add to feel of the plane in this sense.



Ok now pull up hard up and youll see the cross hair move down.Now try to bank and then pull back hard and the crosshair stays stationary in reticule.Was just wondering if the movement up and down could be tied coempletly to the G's.Bank 90deg and pull back and crosshair will move down in reticule depending on G's.Maybe even have the slip tied directly into the side to side movement of crosshair in reticule...but only if you can feel slip.Any real pilot wanna comment on if you can feel coordinated flight or not?

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 01:43 AM
G meter is already there. It's called an accelerameter, look for them in the finest avionics equipped aricraft in the game and war. The Yank planes. P-47, look low to the left, says 'acceleration' on it. Guys what know how to dive proper use it./i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 02:45 AM
"Reticule:"

<img src=http://www.cooncreekoldwest.com/images1/reticule.gif>


"Reticle:"

<img src=http://www.drillinghotline.com/graphics/scopes_ret4a.jpg>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



<img src=http://www.johnsonsmith.com/images/p1039.jpg>

Eeeeeeeeeee.......

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 02:49 AM
BfHeFwMe wrote:
- G meter is already there. It's called an
- accelerameter, look for them in the finest avionics
- equipped aricraft in the game and war. The Yank
- planes. P-47, look low to the left, says
- 'acceleration' on it. Guys what know how to dive
- proper use it.

That is fine for those AC that have them.. but in real life you didnt need to *look* at a gauge to *feel* the G's. And the last thing I want to do when lining up a target is take my eye off the ball and scan down at some gauge.. Where as if I had a bar graph that was about a 1/4" wide and ran from the top of the screen all the way to the bottom.. that measured G's... that would be useful for loading and unloading and I wouldnt have to take my eye off the ball!



TAGERT
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER.. Than what the H is your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 02:56 AM
Tagert...dont you think that having it on the reticule,errrr,reticle is better/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Then a simple dot placed directly on reticle and centered on crosshair when the cross hair shows perfectly the direction of bullets.Come up from underneath a bomber and when crosshair center touches dot....let her rip and the bullets will find their mark.



Message Edited on 06/20/0309:59PM by Wolfstriked

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 03:08 AM
Wolfstriked wrote:
- Tagert...dont you think that having it on the
- reticule,errrr,reticle is better

Emmmmm no, because it alters the gun sight... and I dont want any more cluter in that area.. And image the Fw190 crowds responce... they allready thing there view is limited! <G>


TAGERT
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H is your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 06:13 AM
But its not adding anything to the gunsight....just changing the way the cockpit moves in relation to the crosshair which is always centered on screen.

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 06:36 AM
tagert wrote:
-
- That is fine for those AC that have them.. but in
- real life you didnt need to *look* at a gauge to
- *feel* the G's. And the last thing I want to do when
- lining up a target is take my eye off the ball and
- scan down at some gauge.. Where as if I had a bar
- graph that was about a 1/4" wide and ran from the
- top of the screen all the way to the bottom.. that
- measured G's... that would be useful for loading and
- unloading and I wouldnt have to take my eye off the
- ball!
-
Yeah sure, but what you going to do when a dora's on your butt, go by feeling? You don't have the energy to waste diving wrong in a 47 or your meat on the table. Wasn't the man asking about a guage./i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

So what does 2.5 g feel like? How many exact G did you pull at your last carnival ride? Didn't think so, that's why they install em in the first place./i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 06:46 AM
BfHeFwMe wrote:

- Yeah sure,

Positive.

- but what you going to do when a dora's on
- your butt,

Huh? One sec... another call, one sec... <What.. the price of tea in china did what? Ok, thanks> Oh.. back... where were you getting at?

- go by feeling? You don't have the energy
- to waste diving wrong in a 47 or your meat on the
- table.

LOL!

- Wasn't the man asking about a guage.

And I answered him about the gauge.

- So what does 2.5 g feel like?

It feels like a litte more than 2.49g and a little less than 2.51g

- How many exact G did you pull at your last
- carnival ride?

I dont know, I dont do carnivals enough to make it a life or death situation, thus I just enjoy the ride.


- Didn't think so,

Didn't think.. you got that right!

- that's why they install em in the first
- place.

Chew on this, humans make guages to measure things, we use them to calibrate our senses... Thus during training, one does not have a target to shoot down, thus he can do manuvers and focus on the gauge and calibrate his senses.. that is he can equate a *feeling* to a number... pretty simple answer to your question.. Aint it.. ie Did Think before I spoke.. unlike SOME here.



TAGERT
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 06:48 AM
Your a bright one, I can tell. LoL

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 06:51 AM
BfHeFwMe wrote:
- Your a bright one, I can tell. LoL

It's a gift!


TAGERT
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 07:39 AM
Uhhh guys we are agreeing on the same thing here but somehow it got all screwy.Kinda giving me the Giggles/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tagert wants a thin bar on the left of the screen,BfHeFwMe says its already on the dash in a P47 and to use it and I say work on the reticle and get that conveying G's/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Now wheres the $*#&$# patch????

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 07:45 AM
The thin bar is actually a good idea Tagert. I'm not fond of the reticle idea, though.

Beergator

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 08:29 AM
Beergator wrote:
- The thin bar is actually a good idea Tagert.

Thanks Beergator! It is something I have wished for sense the days of Red Baron... but have yet to see anyone impliment.. I think the sim Fly (or was it flight) did something like that.. but it has been so long.. This lack of feedback is why I use the clunky POS microsoft force feedback JS over the CH stick I bought.. In that the force feedback gives you some sense of loading.. where as with a non force feedback stick the sping force is a constant.. thus no sense except deflection of the stick itself.

- I'm not fond of the reticle idea, though.

I guess anything at this point is better than nothing... but those things that address the feedback to the force we would feel.. I would like to see seperate from the cockpit art... Some of the JET sims have the G displayed on the HUD... We now have the option to display the SPEED and ALT in the corner... Would be cool if they could at least disply it as a number... But, the numbers changing does not give you as good of a *feel* (pun intended) as a moving bar graph would.. in some bright color. The old Air Warior sim had a display that was interesting.. It had the cockpit displayed in the center, and *other* things outside the art for things like ID's a such... I woudnt want that.. but something like that around the edge of the screen.. Oh yes, and the option to disable it for all that dont like it! <G>



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?