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View Full Version : Ok, time to buy a joystick!



Martin_078
01-30-2005, 11:18 AM
I gotta admit playing this game with the keyboard is not a good idea. Although I did menage to take off with the Corsair from a carrier (took forever, a dozen keyboard key manuvers)
So I decided to buy a joystick, what do you guys suggest? I want something reliable that will last and that can have a lot of features to limit keyboard functions.

3.JG51_BigBear
01-30-2005, 11:40 AM
I would suggest a Saitek Cyborg Evo. Its cheap, works great, and has shift keys to allows you to basically double the number of functions you can have programmed on the stick. I bought mine a few months ago and have been very happy with it especially given how cheap they are.

dse1010
01-30-2005, 11:48 AM
Cyborg evo is good stick. If you want force feedback a good enexpensive on is the logitech wingman force 3d.

GoToAway
01-30-2005, 12:00 PM
I'd suggest the Saitek X45. It's more expensive than the Evo, but it is an actual HOTAS stick. I could not imagine playing Il-2 without precise throttle control. It also has a rudder rocker (in case you don't have pedals) and two other axis controls that you can map to functions of your choice.

sledgehammer2
01-30-2005, 12:53 PM
The X-45 is a good deal for the money. I got one for Christmas but it just didn't work for me. It made me realize how much I really like my MS Sidewinder. However, I do want a HOTAS, so what I did was send the -45 back and I plan on ordering a CH throttle to go with my Sidewinder. Then, around late summer or so I will get the CH Fighterstick. Their stuff is expensive but you get what you pay for.

ElAurens
01-30-2005, 01:24 PM
Martin, how much are you planning on spending?

This is the absolute determiner on what to get.

On the low end the Saitek Cyborg Evo, or the Cyborg USB Gold(if you can find one) are good choices.

In the middle would be the Saitek X45 or X52 HOTAS setups. The portal to the real world of flight simming.

If money is not a critical concern then by all means get the CH Products Fighterstick USB, Pro Throttle USB, and, Pro Pedals USB combo. The best there is.

Bearcat99
01-30-2005, 02:29 PM
I suggest that you go no lower than a Saitek X45 stick. If ou are in the US and you get it retail get it with a $10-$15 product replacement plan just in case and you will be GOLD although I have had no problems with mine and I bought it just before FB1.0 came out. Forget about sticks like the Evo..... unless you want to do a combo stick set up for the FFB with for example a Saitek EVO FFB and an X45. Not that they are bad sticks.. it's just that this sim... is so..... versatile.. get something to grow into. You will be amazed at how your flying improves (not necessarilly your dogfighting.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif) when you have a place to put all the functions the sim has to offer somewhere. You can use the FFB as your main flight stick and the X45 as a throttle quad/button bay. I do that with a MSFFB2/X45/CH pedal combo. Whatever you decide upon spend the extra money today for a decent HOTAS which is Hands On Throttle And Stick setup. This sim is made for a HOTAS.... sure you can enjoy it with a keyboard and a joystick but a HOTAS ups the immersion factor considerably. Go here to see if you can get a refurbed X45. At full retail $79US it is a good buy... at $39 reconditioned it is a steal. Of course there are the more expensive CH products and Cougar..... but for the money you spend for a CH HOTAS setup you can get an X45 and a set of CH rudder pedals and be very very happy... you might also consider the Saitek X52 as well.. I prefer the X45 since I have pedals so I sont use th rudder rocker on my X45 for rudder I use it as a switch to which I have assigned rudder trim.

Tully__
01-30-2005, 06:55 PM
Under my signature picture, click the "Joystick..." link and read the section on choosing a joystick.

Chef-Scott
01-30-2005, 07:34 PM
I must add into this. I use and love the Saitek Cyborg evo Force stick (it replaces my evo) and I use it with a Belkin Nostromo n52 Speedpad.
This is to me at little more cost effective than buying an x45 or x52, and more functional as a HOTAS. Not to mention that you can use the n52 with any game and program as well.

TPN_Cephas
01-30-2005, 07:36 PM
CH GEAR IS THE BEST!

Martin_078
01-30-2005, 07:48 PM
****, after reading the first 2 posts, I ran to the store and got the evo. I must say I really like it, but after reading about the X 45/52 I now think I'm allready behind. I only wish this joystick would have more resistance when it comes to the stick, feels a little bit sloppy to just have your hand holding it.
I will research a bit about the X45, and might bring this one back, we'll see.
Now, what's the most effective button setup for this joystick? Thanks for all your help.

Martin_078
01-30-2005, 07:55 PM
I just visited saitek's website, I'm drooling over the X52. That looks like some serious hardware for serious aviators. But can't my evo's throttle lever be good enough?

Treetop64
01-30-2005, 09:06 PM
Get the old Atari 2400 one-button joystick with an adapter for your PC! Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is more durable. I still have my old Atari, and it still works like new! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bearcat99
01-30-2005, 09:43 PM
If you can afford two sticks get the Evo FFB and the X45... you wont be sorry.

Texas LongHorn
01-30-2005, 10:36 PM
Bearcat, are you saying to use the EVO as the stick and then the X-45's throttle in addition? If so, that's a darn good idea. So good in fact I just ordered the reconditioned X-45 Stick & Throttle off the Saitek site <ggg.> I love my EVO but could certainl do with a seperate throttle and more buttons to love. All the best, LongHorn

CAF_FN_IDIOT
01-31-2005, 07:18 AM
If you want resistance get Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar!

13lbs spings in it!

Great stick! and throttle

http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/

BM357_MobHit
01-31-2005, 07:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CAF_FN_IDIOT:
If you want resistance get Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar!

13lbs spings in it!

Great stick! and throttle

http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Don't listen to all these crazy Thrustmaster Cougar fans!! They have all played far too many jet sims and each and every one of them is suffering from lack of oxygen. What you really need is CH PRODUCTS gear. Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals can't be beat.

http://www.chproducts.com/retail/index.html

http://www.ch-hangar.com/news.php


Best of luck on your purchase http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AJRobson
01-31-2005, 07:31 AM
You get what you pay for. Saitek sometimes has some refurb X45's for sale. Check their website often. They have a few scratches.... but are fine.

The Saitek Cyborg Evo is a nice basic stick that will work fine. Just doesn't have a lot of buttons. But it might be a good start. If you ever plan to run the game on two PC's... you could eventually let the "guest" use it. My son works it just fine.

I use an X45 throttle with Saitek Cyborg 3D Force AND CH Pro Pedals.

Pedals are really necessary and are sort of a pain to master.

The X45 doesn't have a twist function in the stick. But it does have a rocker on the throttle that you can assign to the rudder. I've never tried it.

This is all very complicated isn't it? That is why if you just start with the basic Saitek Evo you will have everything you need initially. YOu can always add one of those speed pad things to it.

If you can go to a store and try out how they feel... that would be a good idea as you might be disappointed.

VW-IceFire
01-31-2005, 07:58 AM
Are there any decently priced HOTAS/Stick combos with a rudder thats a twist axis on the stick?

I've got a Sidewinder PP2 and the twist axis is of utmost importance. That or I'll have to get a proper CH Products thing later when I have money http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ritter_Cuda
01-31-2005, 09:09 AM
i think the X52 twists
Cuda. a Ch fan

DarkCanuck420
02-01-2005, 09:23 PM
If your low on dough, logitech joysticks are pretty solid, and their customer service is superbe! I had a problem with mine, i faxed them the proof of purchase on thursday, and i got a new one on tuesday. pretty speedy they had to travel all they way up to my igloo up here in Canada eh!

================================================

BaldieJr
02-01-2005, 09:33 PM
I have the X52.
I've had: Logitch, MS, Saitek, a home-made, a few force-feedbacks and a lot of no-name junk.

I'd buy the X52 again and again. Its the sweetest stick going right now.

kiddknapp59
02-01-2005, 10:20 PM
I just got my CH Fighterstick. I am still using my X45 throttle. The CH makes the Saitek stick look and feel like a toy.

HotelBushranger
02-02-2005, 01:48 AM
Whatever you do, don't get Logitech products! I made that mistake, and after only a month of use, this thing is already losing quality. Id say, Saitek, they look pretty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Achilles97
02-02-2005, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Are there any decently priced HOTAS/Stick combos with a rudder thats a twist axis on the stick?

I've got a Sidewinder PP2 and the twist axis is of utmost importance. That or I'll have to get a proper CH Products thing later when I have money http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't worry about the X45 rudder. I used a Logitech FFB joystick with twist rudder for two years. Last month I bought an X45 and I was concerned about the rudder. After using it for a few weeks I can fly far better with this X45 than I could with any other joystick. It's incredibly precise and stable. I don't even have to use the rudder as much because I move so precisely and I can keep the plane perfectly trimmed and stable.

The progamming of the X45 is overwhelming at first, but when you get used to it is awesome. I NEVER have to take my hands off the hotas when flying. It just feels awesome.

I would never go back to anything else. Get the X45.

DarkCanuck420
02-02-2005, 08:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Whatever you do, don't get Logitech products! I made that mistake, and after only a month of use, this thing is already losing quality. Id say, Saitek, they look pretty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had mine for ~ 8 months it started to have problems, in a few days they sent me a new one. cant complain with that. logitech has great customer service. for every company there is always one person who has had a problem with a product. if you want something that will last, it will cost you. make sure you go through the forums all over the net to read what people have to say about other products.

--------===================================--------

fordfan25
02-02-2005, 09:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
I would suggest a Saitek Cyborg Evo. Its cheap, works great, and has shift keys to allows you to basically double the number of functions you can have programmed on the stick. I bought mine a few months ago and have been very happy with it especially given how cheap they are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed. iv used winman for aehile and find them complete garbage. the saitek cyborg evo is what i use now and it night and day better. and has lasted longer than my old wingmen that would break after a few mounths.

if you got the cash the x45 iv heard is great but there is the follow up to that one the x50 something that looks awsome.

the cyborg evo can be had for about 40 bucks US. and you dont need rudder control.

Mal_Dale
02-03-2005, 02:35 AM
Saitek! Full-on Gay stick!
Real men fly with the Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JunkoIfurita
02-03-2005, 05:03 AM
Ok, my two cents.

I'm using the X52 (before that I was using the Thrustmaster Afterburner II - good, but short on buttons and it had rubber pots that broke down after 12 months) - as far as being HOTAS its as good as you'll get without spending $300 (I'm converting here, its over $600 in Australia for the Cougar or closing on $1200 for a full CH setup). All the Saitek sticks have the same problem with soft springs, whether its the Evo, the X45 or the X52. It was their decision and suits me, but it can also be easily rectified by placing a tension spring inside the base unit.

Logitech may have great customer support, but the simple fact is their sticks don't stand up to heavy use. Its nice to know you can get a warranty replacement, no hassles. Its not so nice to know that you're GOING to have to get a warranty replacement. Its weird, every other logitech product is top notch, but their joysticks fall down badly. Admittedly I was using a Wingman Attack II ($30 joystick), but I hear the problem is the same with the pricier models too.

CH is the best, but you're paying close to the price of a new gaming PC to get them. Thrustmaster Cougar isn't worth it for anything but a jet sim.

My advice would be to get one of the Saitek sticks (preferably the X52 - twist on the stick, hardier and prettier), but ONLY if you can either get used to the soft springs or if you know you can easily put a tension spacer spring on. Also you need to really pull the sensitivity curve up high (in FB/PFs joystick setup) to eliminate their overly flat response curve.

Having done that, I'm happier with the X52 than I was with anything else, and I've tried both a CH and a Cougar. Although I really do wanna add a set of those CH rudder pedals w toe brake. Those are niiiiiiceeee http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Bearcat99
02-03-2005, 07:17 AM
If you are using a multiple stick setup like mine then use tat rudder rocker on the X45 for flaps. I have it set as a 3 way switch with a null in the muddle.

DuxCorvan
02-03-2005, 07:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mal_Dale:
Saitek! Full-on Gay stick! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ehem... maybe you're not using it... ehem... in the proper way... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

ytareh
02-03-2005, 09:56 AM
I had a Logitech twist 3d job,loved it but inevitably it went(you'll wonder why you keep crashing!!!)Got saitek evo and dont like grip or floppy spring.Just stick something in above or below the exposed spring to tighten it up a bit.

tB_Blueknight
02-03-2005, 03:26 PM
Bearcat99

I tried that url you had posted for joysticks and didnt find any X45,s for $ 40.00.
Please dont misunderstand, I,m not complaining.
I just want to scarf a $40.00 X45 up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SkyChimp
02-03-2005, 06:36 PM
Stay away from Logitech sticks, unless you want to replace it every 6 months. They lose there ability to stay calibrated. I've had 3 in as many years, my last one crapping out after 6 months. They're heavy and fell good, but they just don't last.

I've got a Saitek Cyborg Evo now. It feels pretty good (though some of the thumb buttons are hard to manipultate). It doesn't squeak like my X45. It's precise - I like that. But it's too dang light and it scoots across the table if you jerk it around too hard.

Raptor_20thFG
02-04-2005, 02:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CAF_FN_IDIOT:
If you want resistance get Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar!

13lbs spings in it!

Great stick! and throttle

http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If you want to spend a ***load of money for a F-16 Paperweight go ahead IMHO all I have ever heard about this stick that it takes mod after mod and it never really ever flys right sorry If I am going to spend that kinda of money I am going CH

Raptor_20thFG
02-04-2005, 02:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tB_Blueknight:
Bearcat99

I tried that url you had posted for joysticks and didnt find any X45,s for $ 40.00.
Please dont misunderstand, I,m not complaining.
I just want to scarf a $40.00 X45 up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
\Blueknight make sure you check under reconditioned Products on the Saitek forums

Tobus75
02-04-2005, 03:37 AM
Well, although everybody here seems to find logitech sticks evil, I have a FFB wingman for about 6 months now. It Works great, good response and FFB effects. I'm still fiddling with the sliders in IL2FB/PF joystick settings though. Anybody got a tip for me in that area?

tB_Blueknight
02-04-2005, 07:24 AM
Thanks raptor will do.

Raptor_20thFG
02-04-2005, 03:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Are there any decently priced HOTAS/Stick combos with a rudder thats a twist axis on the stick?

I've got a Sidewinder PP2 and the twist axis is of utmost importance. That or I'll have to get a proper CH Products thing later when I have money http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


X52 twisits