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View Full Version : The Fw190 is awesome!



GH_Klingstroem
03-05-2005, 08:06 AM
The last few days I decided to from the 190d9 and once again try out the Antons. On differents servers such as greatergreen and War_clouds WF whithout externals etc etc I havent been shot down one single time and still I have got 22 enemy fighters. The easiest by far are the spits! They are actually quite cute when they try to follow you. I sometimes feel sorry for them. Poor bastards. The p47 and the p51 are a bit more difficult and if they are well flown only the clouds can help me. However at high speed (where u fly the 190 anyway) you can outturn at least the p47... the russians AC, well, the problem is that they are always so **** low. While the btits and the americans dont really like to follow you when you dive away, the russian AC are always down there anyway. So once you have entered a dogfight down low and lost all thge energy, you are pretty much f.cked anyway unless you have a wingman. Then again its pretty fun to play with them as one of you can dive down on him with lots of enrgy while the other is beeing chased (often a bit faster than the russian AC anyway)...
well Im very very happy with the 190 from A4 (those A4 cannons hit harder than later versions.. strange!??!...) all the way up to A9.
Great AC to fly!
However I must say i have lots of hours in the 190!!!
Basicly, treat her as she wants to be treated and she will always bring you home!

VW-IceFire
03-05-2005, 08:08 AM
Agreed completely. You've found the FW190 bug...you will look on all other aircraft in the game as second to this series of aircraft. Its got its problems and some issues in terms of modeling but so do all aircraft (nothings perfect) and the FW is just so much fun to fly! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Welcome! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GH_Klingstroem
03-05-2005, 08:09 AM
Ooops just realised I posted on the wrong forum! Was supposed to be in General discussion... sorry

GH_Klingstroem
03-05-2005, 08:10 AM
Jeeez thats fast Icefire!

3.JG51_BigBear
03-05-2005, 08:35 AM
Its an excellent aircraft. I prefer the Dora myself but for online play I don't think any model is better than the A-9. The plane is definitely top five in my book, I hate to say it but I still think its outclassed by the Spitfire. The Spit being better doesn't bother me though because when the Focke Wulf got its reputation against the Spitfire it was being flown by pilots that were arguably the best in the world. The Focke Wulf also had a lot of real world advantages that I don't think a sim will ever really be able to model.

p1ngu666
03-05-2005, 08:40 AM
its deffinatly better than the spit V http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

IX came as a nasty surprise to the real lw http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

ElAurens
03-05-2005, 09:03 AM
I find the Spit VIII to be better than the IX as it is actually the later design.

And yes the 190s are quite deadly, if you understnd them. I don't.

GH_Klingstroem
03-05-2005, 09:06 AM
Strange. I have never felt outclassed by the spit. They have never been able to follow me in a dive. If I just keep my speed high I can outroll them and at the same dive till they give up. Sure a few times I have come in and ended up, through miscalculation, so that I had to use lots deflection which is difficult in the 190 cuz of the bad forward view. And that can sometimes lead to the spit turning sharply and end up on my 6 even though I had the advantage a few secs earlier. But as a last thing you can always dive away if you screwed up. But if there are 2 of you, one will go in and when the spit tries to go for you, your wingman will be there taking care of you. Maybe I have just been very lucky with my opponents?!?!

Hunde_3.JG51
03-05-2005, 10:35 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif Don't forget it is a great fighter/bomber and bomber destroyer as well.

http://www.aviatorgallery.com/icewarriorsbig.JPG

http://www.aviatorgallery.com/realtroublebig.JPG

http://www.aviatorgallery.com/timberwolfbig.JPG

http://www.aviatorgallery.com/notrningbackbig.JPG

geetarman
03-05-2005, 10:41 AM
Good for you! Glad you found your favored ride. I enjoy battling them in my Mustang. I try not to get in front of. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Boandlgramer
03-05-2005, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
its deffinatly better than the spit V http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

IX came as a nasty surprise to the _real_ lw http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nothing is better for the moral than a myth . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Buzzsaw-
03-05-2005, 11:23 AM
Salute

Looking at any time frame during the war, and comparing them to their contemporaries, the 190's are in the top rung of the available fighters.

The 190D is in the top five in my opinion, excluding the Jets. I rate it slightly over the La-7, but prefer the P-51D to it by a hair. The Spit IXE I find right up there too, but it is handicapped by its speed down low. The 109K4 is also very good just by bent of its ability to climb over anything and get the initiative, but I dislike it on principle because of the grossly overmodelled low speed handling... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The value of the 190 rises as the number of aircraft involved in a combat rises. When you have 4+, then the 190 begins to dominate with its combination of firepower and speed.

In the early years of the war, specifically 1942 and the first half of 1943 before the introduction of the La-5FN, the 190 is at its best. A team of four 190's can take on a force twice their number and win.

The one area where the early and mid 190A is a little overmodelled is in its performance over 20,000 ft, or 6000 meters. The historical aircraft ran out of steam very quickly when it got higher than that. That was the main reason for the developement of the 190D and the turbocharged 190A9.

But high altitude performance is an issue with a lot of aircraft.

faustnik
03-05-2005, 11:35 AM
Buzzsaw,

Check IL-2 compare. The Fw190As performance falls off sharply at 6000m , just like it should. I don't think it is overmodeled there.

MEGILE
03-05-2005, 11:42 AM
FW-190 is a good fighter in the right hands.
But be sure it excels at bomber-killing. Nothing compares.
We need more high flying bombers for Focke Wulf pilots http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
03-05-2005, 11:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
I find the Spit VIII to be better than the IX as it is actually the _later_ design.

And yes the 190s are quite deadly, _if_ you understnd them. I don't. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh yeah, i prefer the VIII aswell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
03-05-2005, 11:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Boandlgramer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
its deffinatly better than the spit V http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

IX came as a nasty surprise to the _real_ lw http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nothing is better for the moral than a myth . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it was a nasty surprise for fw190 driver, who thought he was fighting Vb's. pulled up in a climb... IX followed, and then past him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

aprently 190 driver was like http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

RedNeckerson
03-05-2005, 11:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
That was the main reason for the developement of the 190D and the turbocharged 190A9.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just a side note, no FW190s were turbocharged.

All of them, including the Jumo213 D series had mechanical superchargers.

The BMW 801TJ was an excellent turbosupercharged engine, but was installed on bombers and not used operationally on fighters.

p1ngu666
03-05-2005, 11:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif Don't forget it is a great fighter/bomber and bomber destroyer as well.

http://www.aviatorgallery.com/icewarriorsbig.JPG

http://www.aviatorgallery.com/realtroublebig.JPG

http://www.aviatorgallery.com/timberwolfbig.JPG

http://www.aviatorgallery.com/notrningbackbig.JPG <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep, and nice pics http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

wish dora had bomb rack, for REALLY highspeed jabo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

RedNeckerson
03-05-2005, 12:08 PM
I'm pretty much a novice online but even I can stay safe in the FW190 provided I don't get stupid and go down low and slow with the turnfighters.

In fact, I don't remember ever getting shot down in a FW190 above 3000m http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Collisions don't count http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

faustnik
03-05-2005, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megile:
FW-190 is a good fighter in the right hands.
But be sure it excels at bomber-killing. Nothing compares.
We need more high flying bombers for Focke Wulf pilots http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a great point Megile. Most of our fights in PF are tactical ground support situations where the 190A is at its best. Forcing the 190A's to fly historical high altitude bomber intercept will reveal their limitations. Fighting P-47s at 7.5K meters is bad news. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

faustnik
03-05-2005, 12:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:

wish dora had bomb rack, for REALLY highspeed jabo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me262 works well for that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Boandlgramer
03-05-2005, 12:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666

wish dora had bomb rack, for REALLY highspeed jabo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


and Panzerblitzrockets for the Focke Wulfs.
it is a dream for me since 2 years ( or even longer ).

BlakJakOfSpades
03-05-2005, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
yep, and nice pics http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

wish dora had bomb rack, for REALLY highspeed jabo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

careful what you wish for http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
03-05-2005, 05:05 PM
Buzzsaw wrote:

"The one area where the early and mid 190A is a little overmodelled is in its performance over 20,000 ft, or 6000 meters. The historical aircraft ran out of steam very quickly when it got higher than that. That was the main reason for the developement of the 190D and the turbocharged 190A9."

The 190's do fall away pretty quick in-game. The P-38, P-47, P-51, Spitfire, and even Corsair (see below) pass the 190 in terms of speed and climb rather quickly above 6,000m (as you would expect). And their eventual drop off is not as steep, as is the case with many planes compared to 190.

Still I find this interesting:

http://web.cetlink.net/~howardds/28060b00.gif

Notice the FW-190 is making its best speed at 25,000 feet. Also there is a test with P-47 in which the FW-190 outperforms the Thunderbolt (in terms of handling and such rather than raw performance) at higher altitudes but I can't find it right now.

*Anyway, I have seen way too many accounts to believe that the FW-190 was good at high altitudes, I just found the tests interesting*.

Also in the test the Corsair (my other favorite plane) falls off before the FW-190 does but in game the Corsair is pretty solid upstairs.

Link to full test:

http://web.cetlink.net/~howardds/id88.htm

And I agree, I wish we 190 drivers had more bombers to go after, but then again like Faustnik said we don't want those T-Bolts and Mustangs diving on us from 30,000 feet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

p1ngu666
03-05-2005, 05:48 PM
think the 190 may get slugish up high, like yak
top speed is high, but acceloration is pants, and u bleed speed in turns alot

in il2c yak9u is close to d9 44 at all heights, but try it at low alt, vs high alt. low alt u will gain on 190, high u are no where.... but topspeeds are close...

262 2a is best jabo, but no one wants to enable that on servers much, or they want the 1a http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


for high alt bombers, u need coop really with airstart

if u in bomber, best high alt maybe 6900metres, below contrail height just http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

trick of the photo recon pilots http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
03-06-2005, 12:26 AM
FW-190A-9 is the ultimate late prop jabo (unless Tempest arrives and is given a bomb loadout), it can drop a 1,100lb. bomb and still outrun anything short of an La-7 and P-63 at sea-level. Remember that FW-190A-9 is modelled with bomb-rack, if Dora had bomb-rack it would be 10-15km/h slower. My speed tests gave me 598km/h with A-9 (604 for very short time before overheat on manual), and 606 with the D-9 '44. This means the A-9 would be faster, at least at SL which is the most important IMO. The D-9 '45 topped out at 611 which means it would be about the same as the A-9. Remember that A-9 is also slightly smaller in dimension and has tougher radial engine, plus it can retain all 4 cannons and two mg's. The A-9 is sweet. Now we just need an F-9 with Panzerblitz.

Galaboo
03-06-2005, 12:31 AM
I feel that German planes require the most skill, and once you master them you are GOD!

Hunde_3.JG51
03-06-2005, 12:38 AM
I feel that the Fiat CR.42 Falco requires the most skill, and once you master it you are GOD!

BBB_Hyperion
03-06-2005, 12:53 AM
Sc1800 , PB and lots of extras missing. Here are only some loadouts and the speed drop caused by them.

http://www.butcherbirds.de/hypesstorage/FW190G.jpg

Dolemite-
03-06-2005, 01:14 AM
I like the D9 and A6 the best out of the 190s. I think most people prefer the A9 simply for the Mk108s, as the A6 can out perform it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
03-06-2005, 02:44 AM
Dolemite, any 190 is a great 190 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, but the A-9 is faster at all altitudes and has better climb at altitudes than the A-6. The A-6 handles better. I prefer the A-9 because of its raw performance while retaining the ability to act as a fighter bomber and bomber destroyer. I like to load up an SC-500, hit the enemy, and get back up to altitude and look for fighters. The A-9 has been my favorite for a long time.

Thanks for the chart Hyperion, but what is the difference between first column and second column concerning speed? Sorry if this is dumb question.

GH_Klingstroem
03-06-2005, 05:53 AM
I like the fw190a6 as well but find it difficult to run away when I have to. Being forced to stay and fight when u are low on E is not my thing... or can you run away with a A& if you feel that you are disadvantaged?! cheers

diomedes33
03-06-2005, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Thanks for the chart Hyperion, but what is the difference between first column and second column concerning speed? Sorry if this is dumb question. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Horizantlgeschwindigkeit am Boden dV
This is the velocity difference at SeaLevel

Horizantlgeschwindigkeit in Volldruckhohe dV
The velocity difference at full-pressure altitude (I'm not exactly sure what this means, but I think its when the supercharger is maxed out.)

Dietmar Harmann's Focke-Wulf Ta-152 book has all the 190 series for comparison and the volldruckhohe for the a9 is 6400 m.

My German is a bit rusty, so it could be wrong.

Hunde_3.JG51
03-06-2005, 10:24 AM
Klingstroem, it depends on your opponent. The A-6 can run away at seal level against most 1943 contemporaries, with the exception of the La-5FN and P-38J, but alot changes with a '44 planeset. That is why the extra speed is important for A-9, it lets you escape against P-47D, P51D, P-38J, etc. You just can't pull away from La-7 and P-63. If you are down low the speed is important with either plane, often when you are jumped from above it is fairly easy to escape, though at times you end up lower and that is when the extra speed allows you to exit and get back into position.

Thanks Specter for translation. "Official 3./JG51 AWACS", thats classic...and true. We need to get you that flyable FW-189.

BBB_Hyperion
03-06-2005, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Thanks for the chart Hyperion, but what is the difference between first column and second column concerning speed? Sorry if this is dumb question. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Horizantlgeschwindigkeit am Boden dV
This is the velocity difference at SeaLevel

Horizantlgeschwindigkeit in Volldruckhohe dV
The velocity difference at full-pressure altitude (I'm not exactly sure what this means, but I think its when the supercharger is maxed out.)

Dietmar Harmann's Focke-Wulf Ta-152 book has all the 190 series for comparison and the volldruckhohe for the a9 is 6400 m.

My German is a bit rusty, so it could be wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks good .)

Volldruckh√¬∂he is indeed a Term used compined with the charger .

The Cylinders get pre compressed air from the charger. That secures that the cylinder fill consist of same compression therefore relative equal oxygen % values. The Volldruckh√¬∂he is now the alt where the charger isnt capable anymore to compress the air to that state. So HP Output drops after that alt cause of the lack of Oxygen.

VW-IceFire
03-06-2005, 01:00 PM
I love good FW190 discussions. Its so poorly regarded by some pilots and yet you get a bunch like we've got here and there's no trouble...

This is why I question the people who say that the Spitfire is "overmodeled" because really the IX has few options when confronted by a A-9. But we're all probably team flyers and thats why it works out so well.

Bremspropeller
03-06-2005, 03:02 PM
Well, it always depends on the type of the Mk. IX.

Taking an early version ('42 or '43), the A-9's performance is of course supposed to be better (late '44 plane..).

But the A-5 and A-6 are the planes that are supposed to be compared to the Spit IX.


Hunde said that the Dora would loose 10-15 kph by addong the ETC. Well, those are the figures for the ETC501 - but the D-9 used the more efficient ETC504 (but could only carry a SC250 bomb).
AFAIK, Oleg said that he did not model the drag-values (caused by the bombracks).

p1ngu666
03-06-2005, 03:12 PM
i chose dora for some ground attack cos its fastest at low level, least on WC where i did it...
flying at low level, i took out a bunch of aa around the radar stations, but u need bombs to take out the stations....
a9 is nice cos u got 4cannons and a bomb, but a mustang can catch u...

bombs make lots of drag, thats the problem, thats why bombers have internal bomb bay.

i think tempest and mossie will be very good for low level jabo

i guess wanting to be fastest plane, AND carry bombs is cheeky tho...

faustnik
03-06-2005, 06:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Galaboo:
I feel that German planes require the most skill, and once you master them you are GOD! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not true. All the planes, regardless od nationality have their strengths and weaknesses. Try flying P-51s against late Bf109s or Spit IXs against late Fw190s and you find a real challenge.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
03-06-2005, 09:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Galaboo:
I feel that German planes require the most skill, and once you master them you are GOD! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not true. All the planes, regardless od nationality have their strengths and weaknesses. Try flying P-51s against late Bf109s or Spit IXs against late Fw190s and you find a real challenge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% agreed faustnik,
i stepped away from the FW190s for while and flying red now as much as i can to check out the "other side" after 3 years flying online where 2 of them in LW planes mainly Dora9

im spending alot of time in the P47,P51s and its very difficult to fly against late LW planes like the Dora K4 and A9 for the simple reason you have to stay and fight because those planes are faster and you cant get away unlike im used to in the Dora and A9 its more simple to stay alive in the 190s because when things get hot you just run away a luxuary the P47 doesnt have unless at very high alt.

does LW planes require more skill to fly as the P51,P47 and spitfires...heck no maybe even the contrary, killing with them is a different thing staying alive is another http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

about the spitfire mkIX vs FW190-A8/A9/D9
im sorry to say but spitfires arnt all that hard to handle even piloted by an equal pilot
the 190 always got the option to disengage the spit does not.
A5/6 vs spit mkIX is a little harder but ur still faster at low/med alt were 99% of the fights take place online
we should not look at A9 D9 that much because they outrun almost everything and a good Butcher jock wont get low and slow furballing anyway .
but look at 190-A6 vs MkIX P51B/C P47-D10/22
and P38J now those are more intresting fights as the A6 cant disengage at will http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

im a BIG 190 fan but the Jug, mustang and P40s are starting to grow on me more and more
and they provide a whole new challenge IMO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
03-06-2005, 10:02 PM
Its very rewarding to fly for all sides and fly as many plane types as possible. Makes you appreciate the different checks and balances there are in the conflict. What works in a FW190 doesn't work in a Spitfire and vice versa. There's plenty of things that the Spitfire can't do...high speed manuvering being one of them, thats just a normal day for a FW190. I've been having trouble with the Spitfire and building up too much speed and essentially shooting myself in the foot when I go to attack since I have no manuverability. In a FW, I'd be fine.

Different planes require different tactics. My next challenge is the P-38...

Hunde_3.JG51
03-06-2005, 10:09 PM
Bremspropoller, was the ETC-504 used on all Dora's, or only on a small percentage? I've read alot more about the Anton than the Dora. Also, I think the bomb-rack was modelled for A-8 and A-9 as it was standard equipment and the data taken for these aircraft was obtained with them attached. Before PF the A-4/5/6 (which did not have ETC-501 standard) all suffered speed loss and more drag when bomb-rack was installed, though this doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

p1ngu666, Mustang will not catch you if you see him soon enough and drop your bomb. After release the A-9 is faster than the P-51 at SL.

Good comments Sunburst.

Hunde_3.JG51
03-06-2005, 10:13 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Icefire, the other night I finally got back online after about 6 months off and was in a Zero. I high yo-yo'd after damaging a Wildcat as I was overtaking him, as I came back down on the crippled plane to finish him off I yanked back on the stick and...nothing. I ended up lawndarting and thinking that this never would have happened in a 190 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I guess it will take a little time to get the rust off but the rest of the night went well.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
03-06-2005, 10:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
My next challenge is the P-38... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

funny you should say that icefire because i was thinking the same thing, i can master pretty much any plane and be succesfull in it but i think the P38 is going to give me hard time..although i do know some of its strong and weak points i still dont know how to fight with it when i cant BnZ only or surprise the enemy espacially against late 190s..

anyway i got a huge respect for those that master the P38 as a fighter and come home safe in it

p1ngu666
03-06-2005, 10:53 PM
ill haveto team up with u icefire in p38 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

thinking of flying 109g6 aswell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif!

flying all planes is best http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hristo_
03-06-2005, 11:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:

a9 is nice cos u got 4cannons and a bomb, but a mustang can catch u...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You sure about that ? In my experience, in a flat chase on the deck Mustang cannot catch the A-9. In fact, I've both outran and caught Mustangs on the deck in A-9.

The number one reason for A-9 popularity are actually two reasons - two MK108s in wings http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

However, recently I switched back to MG151/20s, as they give more firing time and more balanced ballistics. I can't count anymore on brief lucky snapshots, but enjoy longer hitting distances. It is my impression that in a situation where I'd hit with MK108s I'd hit with MG151/20 just as well, and probably pump more rounds into the target.

What do others think about this MK108 vs MG151/20 in the A-9 ?

As for Spitfire, it is a factor in Warclouds only when blue planes are forced to turn by Mustangs or when a blue pilot is surprised.

However, the best and most often use of Spitfires on Warclouds is when a flaming wreck needs someone to chase it down and steal the kill http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 01:32 AM
just looked at il2c, a9 is *just* faster than p51d till 1000metresish

im tending to think that mk108 is a n00b weapon more and more, and ill be taking a bomb on a a9 so that limits me to 4 20mm anyways...

if warclouds had maps of WF of 43, then IX and VIII would get alot more respect http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

maybe later ill try out a9 for jabbo on warclouds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hristo_
03-07-2005, 01:54 AM
Deck speed is what counts in chases the most.

When virtual life is on the line, you don't try to accelerate or climb away in a 190. Nose down, close radiator and ruuuuuun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

MK108 is not a good weapon in Fw 190, IMHO. While the plane lives by its snapshots, the trajectories of MG131, MG151/20 and MK108 are so different that you actually hit with one and miss with other two weapons.

IMHO, quad MG151/20 and two MG131 are much more balanced combo and are enough to hurt most planes except if I mess something up. If ever Oleg allows for MG rounds in MG151/20 belts , the Fw 190 will beecome even more potent.

MK108s brought me only frustration. Not once I hit a P51 with 1 or 2 MK108 rounds and it flew as nothing happened. Then again, I fired at P51 chasing fellow 190. One round passed by P51 and hit the 190 way up in front. Of course, Murphy's law got me a friendly kill.

Lucius_Esox
03-07-2005, 02:09 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Yawn..

Hetzer_II
03-07-2005, 04:48 AM
Fw is only awesome if you have the advantage.
Shure, you can disengage from IX or p51.. but what can you do if you realy have to fight with them? Almost nothing, Spit will eat you with its Sniper-(40mm)Hispannos, can outmaneuver you in almost every aspect and have the better acceleration.... P51 the same, one hit with its 0.50 in your wings from distances of 500-600 meters and say goodbye.. he did not have to get close.. just a few hits in the tank and the fw will be out of gas during the next 3 minutes...

The only thing the FW is good at is: Be fast and punch hard. And that makes it awesome?
And also i realy love the D9, this one cant punch hard, its only very fast and is a bit more maneuverable.. I never lost a fight against a d9 in a IX when he didnt have a good advantage.

Mk108 is a noob weapon? Its only used by so many people because the Mg151 is porqued since long time... And sorry, what makes it a noob weapon? its great distruction power? What do you want from a 30mm HE grenade? Whoever served in the army knows how powerfull 20mm or 30mm weapons are.. its realy a wonder if any fighter survives a direct hit... And its also a wonder if any fighter survives to be hit from 4*20mm and 2*13mm and just pop out some light smoke...

If youre searching for Noob Weapons please look to the hispanno more closely...

The FW is a good plane if you know how to fly it... but awesome? No....

OldMan____
03-07-2005, 05:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Its very rewarding to fly for all sides and fly as many plane types as possible. Makes you appreciate the different checks and balances there are in the conflict. What works in a FW190 doesn't work in a Spitfire and vice versa. There's plenty of things that the Spitfire can't do...high speed manuvering being one of them, thats just a normal day for a FW190. I've been having trouble with the Spitfire and building up too much speed and essentially shooting myself in the foot when I go to attack since I have no manuverability. In a FW, I'd be fine.

Different planes require different tactics. My next challenge is the P-38... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You will have no problems. Been flying it for afew days in greater green and got shot down only once.. and by a collision. Really keep fast and take use of its zoom up capability and you will be safe. Almost no plane can keep vertical as long as it can.. not even a 109.


If you have trimm on slider or a progrmable joystick.. no fear on compressibility. Just map a key to full trimm up and you can get out of dives as welll as a 109.


I just dont like nose guns.. I miss most of time with them and cant see where I am shooting with .50.


Something very usefull.. it has a BIG drag.. with 2 prop. So if you controll pitch and uses breaks (even without them) you can loose speed so fast that is pretty easy to make enemy over shoot you.


Just forget that legends of P38 fighting like spitfires and use it more like a late FW190 and will be great.

Cajun76
03-07-2005, 05:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hetzer_II:
Blah blah blah <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Why don't you try reading some of the above posts and soak up some knowledge.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Those guys know what they're talking about.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

OldMan____
03-07-2005, 05:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Dolemite, any 190 is a great 190 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, but the A-9 is faster at all altitudes and has better climb at altitudes than the A-6. The A-6 handles better. I prefer the A-9 because of its raw performance while retaining the ability to act as a fighter bomber and bomber destroyer. I like to load up an SC-500, hit the enemy, and get back up to altitude and look for fighters. The A-9 has been my favorite for a long time.

Thanks for the chart Hyperion, but what is the difference between first column and second column concerning speed? Sorry if this is dumb question. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I still like most the A4.. why? Because your opponent will think..

" now I got him.. he wont be able to turn fast enought to avoid me and.. eehh? what the hell!! How did he make that!!?? What the #!@%!*%"

mynameisroland
03-07-2005, 05:56 AM
On the subject of Mg151 vs carrying Mk108's If you carry Mg151's like I do take advantage of the long range of your guns by converging them out to 400m this is further away than most people who will use 250m and therefore not expect you to open up fire until at a similar range...

So next time some guy tries extending away and is between 400 - 600m let him have it you should get a decent effect as the rounds fly pretty straight. Also the higher convergenve means you have to pull less of a lead angle to get you guns on target in a deflection shot, which is a god send if your in the Fw as it hates being hauled tightly as it likes to snap in to a high speed stall.

Hetzer_II
03-07-2005, 06:18 AM
@Cajun76

Maybe i dont need to soak up any more knowledge about the 190....

I dont believe that most of the people here can tell me things about it i didnt know.

But to tell the 190 is awesome is as wrong as to tell its an under dog.

It has some strenght and many weak spots.
If you know how to use the strenght.. its your friend if you just make a small mistake it will be youre nightmare.

I love it, i fly it since 1.1 and i know how to fly it..

now save your blah, blah, blah and have a good day....

Bremspropeller
03-07-2005, 06:53 AM
This is a Dora with an ETC504 (a/c of Hans Dortenmann):
http://hsfeatures.com/fw190d932cw_2.htm


To my knowledge, the ETC504 was the only operational used bombrack for the Dora.
Therefore most of the Doras should have had the ETC since it was the only possibility to add an external tank.

RedNeckerson
03-07-2005, 07:31 AM
There is really only one aircraft in FB that I have a really low opinion of online for being better than it was historically.

And I'm not going to say what it is right now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But it's not the Spitfire, not the P-51, not the P-47 and sure as heck not the P-38.

I fly the Focke and have respect to the guys that fly the above listed fighters and are successful with them online.

A well flown Mustang is most fun to fly against in a FW190(IMO).

And the A-9 will definitely walk away from a P-51 on the deck.

GH_Klingstroem
03-07-2005, 07:41 AM
RedNeckerson are you saying that the 190 is overmodelled?! if thats the case im sure thats a joke! Have you seen the forward view in this thing?!?

RedNeckerson
03-07-2005, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
RedNeckerson are you saying that the 190 is overmodelled?! if thats the case im sure thats a joke! Have you seen the forward view in this thing?!? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dude, my real handle is FW190fan.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It got swallowed by the forum and I can't seem to get it reactivated.

I think it's modelled very well and it's the only plane I will fly if it's available on a map.

The planes I have a very low opinion of online is the La series.

I have a low opinion of the Beaufighter as well.

Spits, Mustangs, Thunderbolts and Lightnings are all OK by me and respect to those good pilots online.

Hunde_3.JG51
03-07-2005, 07:59 AM
Just some speed tests at SL (under Olegs' conditions):

'44-45 set (in km/h highest to lowest):

FW-190D-9 late: 611
FW-190D-9: 606
Ta-152H: 603
P-63C: 603
FW-190A-9: 598 (604 on manual)
P-51D: 592km/h
109K-4: 592
109G-6A/S: 591
FW-190A-8: 590 (595 on manual)
109G-10: 584
P-47D-27: 576
P-38L: 571
Spitfire HF.IX: 536

'43

P-38J: 583
FW-190A-6: 578 (583 on manual)
P-51B: 575
P-51C: 568
P-47D-10/22: 546
Spitfire IXe: 542

I left out the La's but I believe it was around 610 for La-7 and 586 for La-5FN. Maybe after next patch I will try them all again and post results. Also, the FW-190's get killed at around 2,000 to 4,000m in general, and come back to strength between 4,000 and 6,000m. On the Eastern front if you stay above 4,500m you should be fine, on the Western front it is a different story.

GH_Klingstroem
03-07-2005, 08:00 AM
Sorry RedNeckerson! My fault! should have read your post twice before attacking you!!

RedNeckerson
03-07-2005, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
Sorry RedNeckerson! My fault! should have read your post twice before attacking you!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No problem, I didn't consider your post an attack.

Cajun76
03-07-2005, 08:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hetzer_II:
@Cajun76

Maybe i dont need to soak up any more knowledge about the 190....

I dont believe that most of the people here can tell me things about it i didnt know.

But to tell the 190 is awesome is as wrong as to tell its an under dog.

It has some strenght and many weak spots.
If you know how to use the strenght.. its your friend if you just make a small mistake it will be youre nightmare.

I love it, i fly it since 1.1 and i know how to fly it..

now save your blah, blah, blah and have a good day.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying that it dosen't have weak pionts, every plane does. The P-47 is similar in this respect. And there are ways to dig yourself out of an energy hole, even in a Fw or P-47.

I responded the way I did (out of character for me, actually) about your notions about the 40mm? Hispano, and how it's overmodelled. I thought most wanted the Mg151 to be more like it. Are you saying the Mg151 should stay where it is, and the Hispano be reduced?

As far as the 108, what takes more skill? Being on target for a split second? Or getting and staying on target for .5 - 2 seconds, against planes that are generally more manuverable?

There, that's my "blah, blah, blah" for today. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Have a good one and

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 08:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedNeckerson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
RedNeckerson are you saying that the 190 is overmodelled?! if thats the case im sure thats a joke! Have you seen the forward view in this thing?!? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dude, my real handle is FW190fan.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It got swallowed by the forum and I can't seem to get it reactivated.

I think it's modelled very well and it's the only plane I will fly if it's available on a map.

The planes I have a very low opinion of online is the La series.

I have a low opinion of the Beaufighter as well.

Spits, Mustangs, Thunderbolts and Lightnings are all OK by me and respect to those good pilots online. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why u have low opinion of bue?
its really tough, but has half cannon ammo, and no rear view at all... past 90degrees in any direction u see nothing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
no rear gun either
beu is reasonable at low to mid speeds, at low alt, best speed is at 400metres, cos of cropped supercharger http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hetzer_II:
Fw is only awesome if you have the advantage.
Shure, you can disengage from IX or p51.. but what can you do if you realy have to fight with them? Almost nothing, Spit will eat you with its Sniper-(40mm)Hispannos, can outmaneuver you in almost every aspect and have the better acceleration.... P51 the same, one hit with its 0.50 in your wings from distances of 500-600 meters and say goodbye.. he did not have to get close.. just a few hits in the tank and the fw will be out of gas during the next 3 minutes...

The only thing the FW is good at is: Be fast and punch hard. And that makes it awesome?
And also i realy love the D9, this one cant punch hard, its only very fast and is a bit more maneuverable.. I never lost a fight against a d9 in a IX when he didnt have a good advantage.

Mk108 is a noob weapon? Its only used by so many people because the Mg151 is porqued since long time... And sorry, what makes it a noob weapon? its great distruction power? What do you want from a 30mm HE grenade? Whoever served in the army knows how powerfull 20mm or 30mm weapons are.. its realy a wonder if any fighter survives a direct hit... And its also a wonder if any fighter survives to be hit from 4*20mm and 2*13mm and just pop out some light smoke...

If youre searching for Noob Weapons please look to the hispanno more closely...

The FW is a good plane if you know how to fly it... but awesome? No.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

mk108 is noob weapon, despite why ppl use it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

it should be powerful, and it has a decent rof of 10 rounds a sec. its a far more deadly weapon than hispano, which is rarely uber for me, even in buefighter...

its n00b cos ppl can spray and prey and blow u apart. quicker kill than 20mm and 50cal so as cajans reasons...

the 37mm and up of other planes require way more skill tbh

mk108 doesnt shake plane about much compaired to some other guns. is funny how il2 the cannons fire slightly different, so it makes u swing around alot, while planes that would benifit most from mixing up rounds dont....

hispano was a good cannon, one of the best 20mm's around...

oh, and oleg made mk108 unrealisticly good, because of luftwhines, and he toned down russian 37mm at the same time, for same reasons http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Hetzer_II
03-07-2005, 09:29 AM
@cajun
What i believe is that mg151/20 and hispanno where generally equal weapons and that this is the way they should be in Il2. When you ask me i guess the hispanno is mostly like what i suspect of a 20mm weapon so it should stay where/how it is.

@pingu
alright, shaking is one point that i can understand, but besides this i realy can not understand why you believe the mk108 is ueber.
It was a realy devastating weapon, potent to kil every single engined plane with 1-2 hits, and so it is in Il2. It has not a realy low rof and also not a low muzzle velocity. From my point of view there is much more the problem that some planes take 4-5 hits sometimes and they are still flying... Paketloss? Maybe but it happens to often.. I‚¬īm sometimes flying at Lan partys with friends and there should not be much loss..
But this is no whining... mk108 is alright like it is.

To the 37mm: Why this weapon realy sucks is its low Rof.. everything else is fine imho.. but i didnt fly with it quiet often so...

On the other side i realy can understand that many peoply are not happy with the 0.50....
besides you can still shoot at planes at ranges of 1000 with ease

Greets

Nubarus
03-07-2005, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hetzer_II:
the problem that some planes take 4-5 hits sometimes and they are still flying... Paketloss? Maybe but it happens to often.. I‚¬īm sometimes flying at Lan partys with friends and there should not be much loss.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haven't you guys figured it out on your own by now?

I have posed this info on this board at least 5 times now.

The main reason is the DM, and that is in the general sense.
The way the DM is designed in this game is the reason planes get away when struck with powerful weapons.

Certain parts of the planes (all of them) have area's that cannot be damaged by any weapon, some planes have more of these parts then others so it's more obvious on those type of planes while others seem fragile compared to that.

Just to give a few examples.

FW190 inner wing part cannot be shot off, if you want to blow off a wing you need to shoot in the middle of it or on the tip.
On the same plane the tail section can only be shot off at the very end of it.
The Bf109 has many area's that can be shot off so this plane seems very vulnerable since you can shoot off all the wings from the tip to the wing root and the entire tail section all the way to the cockpit.

When I was testing this a long time ago I had hit the FW190's wing root 4 times with a 45mm cannon and it was still flying and fighting while one hit in the centre of the wing clips it off.

Also the damage done is not always the same, even on fragile planes like the Bf109.
Sometimes it can take many hits from .50 and 20mm Hispano's and still fly away, but at this point it's damaged pretty badly but compared to other situations it should have gone down already.

The flaw is the design of the current DM and it's like this due to hardware limitation since an even more accurate DM engine needs more pc power. (The DM in BoB is going to be much more accurate btw)

GH_Klingstroem
03-07-2005, 10:10 AM
Good point Nubarus! Maybe thats where the whole problems is!

RusskiyeVityazi
03-07-2005, 10:11 AM
Pingu, how about making the german 20mm a killer cannon like it should be? Until then, your opinion about german 30mm being a nuber weapon is just whining.

faustnik
03-07-2005, 10:36 AM
Right or wrong, the Mk108 is a annoying weapon. I design the missions for our squad vs. squad matchups and Mk108s pose a lot of problems for balance. The toughest planes in the ETO, P-47s, become glass-jawed lightweights in from of even the single Mk108s of the Bf109s. Aim, who needs it? With the Mk108, just start lobbing shells in a general direction and wait for the single hit to cripple your target. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

*******************

Nubarus,

The Mg151/20 question has been answered by Oleg. (I'm not sure if you were referring to this?) It isn't just the DM or packet loss. All Mg151 except the Bf109 gunpods lack minengeschoss rounds. Your theory of DM issues is certainly valid however, and proven on some aircraft models. The Mk108 gets around this by its shrapnel spread. A hit anywhere is likely to effect many of the targets systems even if it does not kill it.

Hetzer_II
03-07-2005, 11:08 AM
"problems for balance"

There is no space for balancing in a sim.....
If it was such a devastatin weapon... everything is fine.. if not, change it... My opinion: It was, and so said history.

faustnik
03-07-2005, 11:11 AM
I didn't say "balance the sim". Please read my post again.

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Right or wrong, the Mk108 is a annoying weapon. I design the missions for our squad vs. squad matchups and Mk108s pose a lot of problems for balance. The toughest planes in the ETO, P-47s, become glass-jawed lightweights in from of even the single Mk108s of the Bf109s. Aim, who needs it? With the Mk108, just start lobbing shells in a general direction and wait for the single hit to cripple your target. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

*******************

Nubarus,

The Mg151/20 question has been answered by Oleg. (I'm not sure if you were referring to this?) It isn't just the DM or packet loss. All Mg151 except the Bf109 gunpods lack minengeschoss rounds. Your theory of DM issues is certainly valid however, and proven on some aircraft models. The Mk108 gets around this by its shrapnel spread. A hit anywhere is likely to effect many of the targets systems even if it does not kill it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

basicaly, fausnik says what i think, imo, the other guns take more skill, yes they are worse like they should be (than mk108)

i think onwhine, or network, teh rounds are less effective for all guns, this may effect some more than others...

but it maybe best way, other games ive played, once weapons are strong, or stronger it becomes less fun...

RedNeckerson
03-07-2005, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Aim, who needs it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Me!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

OldMan____
03-07-2005, 12:36 PM
Interesting.. I think for myself MK108 is a horrible weapon! Too much inacurate at reasonable distances. And you have not enough ammo for just spray like you guys are speaking about.


I usually have to wait 3 times more time before shooting with MK108 and get at under 100 meters (distance I like to see enemy already on fire). Long time chasing enemy just gives more time to someone else shoot at you.

Also lead must be increased.. and that is hard in a FW no bottom view bar equiped.

Not the type of weapon I like. I am much more effective with 20mm .. both in FW and in Bf

Although I agree against bombers and P38's and P47 it is the weapon of choice.

Nubarus
03-07-2005, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Nubarus,

The Mg151/20 question has been answered by Oleg. (I'm not sure if you were referring to this?) It isn't just the DM or packet loss. All Mg151 except the Bf109 gunpods lack minengeschoss rounds. Your theory of DM issues is certainly valid however, and proven on some aircraft models. The Mk108 gets around this by its shrapnel spread. A hit anywhere is likely to effect many of the targets systems even if it does not kill it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't talking about one weapon in particular but in the general sense.
All weapons suffer from this but indeed the exploding sharpnel suffer a lot less.

GH_Klingstroem
03-07-2005, 01:33 PM
I personally never would use the mk108 with 190 exept when Im going for bombers only!! They didnt need mk108 for fighters in real life and I refuse to do it! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
03-07-2005, 02:28 PM
Weighing in a bit:

MK108 is an ultimate weapon of sorts. The people who say its ineffective aren't using it right at all because its a powerful weapon. I think its a good compliment for aircraft that fly straight and need to hit hard but it gets overused sometimes. Probably because of a lack of hitting power on the 20mm.

The Hispano is rightly the most powerful 20mm in the game. But the 109 gunpod MG151/20s are nearly or just as powerful thanks to the MG shells. I suspect the Hispano is modeled correctly and the MG151/20 is, on the gunpods, modeled correctly, but that the others are all incorrect. If I were to rate effectiveness in-game:
1) Hispano Mark II
2) MG151/20 Bf-109 gunpod
3) ShVAK/B-20
4) MG151/20 on all other mounts

And based on historical interpretation of the real thing:
1) Hispano Mark V
2) Hispano Mark II
3) MG151/20
4) ShVAK/B-20*

* The ShVAK was supposedly the most reliable 20mm cannon of the war so its lack of effectiveness is only marginal with good balistics, muzzle velocity, fire rate, and ultimately reliability - thus most VVS aircraft have a single machinegun for backup.

Back to the FW190. The comment that the FW190 is effective only in a position of advantage is true...unfortunately, the poster makes the flawed interpretation that other aircraft are effective in a position of disadvantage. This is essentially untrue. The FW190 may need a higher level of advantage (more speed, distance, or alt) in some capacity but ultimately the Spitfire, La-7, and others need the same situation. Fighting defensively is dangerous unless you have a very solid team going and the enemy has advantage but poor teamwork.

Also, on the issue of the La series...the La-5FN is not the plane that it used to be. Its now roughly comparable to a FW190A or a Bf-109G-6 (A/S probably). Its just as fast, turns better, but its not as well armed and ultimately in UK-D scenarios I see the FW190s doing much better than the La-5FN.

mynameisroland
03-08-2005, 09:17 AM
Hi Ice Fire ,

I took the 108's last nite purely as an expedient against the Jug and the P38 both of which require too many hits from the Mg151 20mm in game - especially if they are performing hi speed barrel rolls http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think that an Fw 190 (of its particular year ) is the most formidable plane in the game when it has an advantage. This is mainly due to its responsiveness at speed which enables you to convert your Energy to get a shooting oppertunity like no other plane except maybe the Mustang. What distinguishes it from the Mustang is it has better weapons in my opinion and its performance peaks at the low levels we tend to fight at in game.


Rgr Boemher

VW-IceFire
03-08-2005, 09:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Hi Ice Fire ,

I took the 108's last nite purely as an expedient against the Jug and the P38 both of which require too many hits from the Mg151 20mm in game - especially if they are performing hi speed barrel rolls http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think that an Fw 190 (of its particular year ) is the most formidable plane in the game when it has an advantage. This is mainly due to its responsiveness at speed which enables you to convert your Energy to get a shooting oppertunity like no other plane except maybe the Mustang. What distinguishes it from the Mustang is it has better weapons in my opinion and its performance peaks at the low levels we tend to fight at in game.


Rgr Boemher <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
For sure! You guys were kicking the **** out of my P-38 which is why I switched to Spitfire IX and I still got the bejeezus kicked out of me. I was doing better in the P-38 actually. Should have stuck with it...

The190Flyer
03-08-2005, 09:41 AM
The 190 is a blast to fly!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif My favorite plane in the game. Dora is of course the best one of em all, but the Antons are equally as deadly with 4 20mm cannons. The A-4 is the 190 of choice due to the bug! But A-5 just strikes my fancy most of the time, if im ever in an A my choice is A-4,A-5,or A-9. They are all fun to fly, when you have and advantage they are very tough to beat. A good point that Icefire brought up earlier is the next challenge to fly a P-38! I agree, I have no clue how to fly it very well, but I respect anybody who can fly it well.

mynameisroland
03-08-2005, 10:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Rgr Boemher <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
For sure! You guys were kicking the **** out of my P-38 which is why I switched to Spitfire IX and I still got the bejeezus kicked out of me. I was doing better in the P-38 actually. Should have stuck with it...[/QUOTE]

Hi m8, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I like the P38 its always been a fave of mine , any US plane with a cannon gets my vote. My prob with flying it is its compression speed which translates in to immovable elevators which is one of the reasons I cant fly the 109 successfully anymore- rem last week i flew straight in to the ground fire walling the throttle in a dive. You said I should learn to be more flexible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I do like the Wildcat which is responsive and very tough, also the Ia 81 sometimes I fly that when its available as its like a poor mand Fw 190 for the early war years. I cant bring myself to fly the spit unfortunately , I do admire the plane. However on maps with IX I feel its actually more challenging flying Fw A5/6/8 until the A and D 9 comes in.

VW-IceFire
03-08-2005, 01:01 PM
The Spitfire suffers the same as the 109 and the same as the P-38 when it comes to high speed control lockup.

Actually, give the P-38 a try again. Its compressability onset is later in the speed envelope than it used to be. Until you get there, its pretty agile in a turn.

My trouble when going Spitfire IX to FW190 is that I end up approaching the situation in a Spitfire with a huge alt advantage and I don't know what to do with all the speed I've built up in the meantime. In a FW190 I'd just flick over and use that speed to engage the target...in the Spitfire I'm still trying to roll the fighter 180 degrees http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The guys who say the Spitfire is a UFO are nutcases. The FW190 I fear in a Spitfire now...I may shoot down one but I have to get on his tail to do it and in the meantime his buddies are blasting away. You're more survivable in a FW than in a Spit.

mynameisroland
03-09-2005, 06:37 PM
yesterday I flew the Spit on the Caen Map where the blues have 109G6/Fw 190 A6 and A8 because the blues had too many pilots.

I went the Spit IXe 44 and I got shot down after chasing an Fw A8 half way across the map , I had a huge alt advantage but I simply couldnt catch him when he simply angled nose down 20 -25 deg and ran I dove down underneath him hoping to zoom up but I couldnt get needle over 800K the Fw must've been at least this speed as i couldnt close the gap. So then i climbed and cut him off from base. To cut a long story short after a few head ons my planes speed was reduced sufficiently for my Spit to be a lumbering hulk and he nailed me with the 108's ... It was horrible ! I really got used to being able to outrun or chase down planes - pick a guy and just stay with him till he's down or disengage when I wanted to. It reminds me why I left 109. I should really try Mustang again I find that to be more survivable so long as its glass jaw is kept out of trouble ; )

S!

robban75
03-09-2005, 11:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mynameisroland:
I really got used to being able to outrun or chase down planes - pick a guy and just stay with him till he's down or disengage when I wanted to. It reminds me why I left 109. I should really try Mustang again I find that to be more survivable so long as its glass jaw is kept out of trouble ; )

S! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could be that the Fw 190's that you've chased during other fights might have been hit and damaged. A 190 loses a ton of speed from a single bullet hit. The one you chased seemed unharmed. As for diving. The Spit IX currently has a similar or better dive acceleration that the Fw 190A-6, but at very high speed the 190 starts to pull away, somwhere in the 700km/h IAS range. During zooming the IX reaches much higher altitudes compared to the Fw 190A, and similar to the D-9 and La-7.

p1ngu666
03-10-2005, 06:50 AM
flew a5 briefly yesterday, was fun with teh chemical brothers pumpin out music http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

need to that FA guys and others, who gave me a hand http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

mynameisroland
03-10-2005, 08:29 AM
robban

just to clarify , I always fly Fw in whatever form the map offers me D9 44 being my favourite. I changed over to Spit and in doing so thought I could use its climb and manuverability against the Fw 190 A8's camped out over our base. So I climed to 4.5 k spotted an Fw 190 A8 at around 3k so I dived on it and tried to get a shot but he rolled away and down and i was left to climb and regain alt. Then I chased , diving as i described in other post and I couldnt catch him. It makes me realise that if I get caught by a Spit It is my mistake, I have made a boob somewhere and its left me open to interception. If a Fw doesnt want to disengage he doesnt have to against a Spit. This point was underlined after changing the perspective to see how the 'other side' flies.

rgr

Boemher

Jaws2002
03-10-2005, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
flew a5 briefly yesterday, was fun with teh chemical brothers pumpin out music http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

need to that FA guys and others, who gave me a hand http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was fun there last night.flying FW-190 at 4000-6000 and survive all those pesty spits from 8000m-9000m. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

VW-IceFire
03-10-2005, 05:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mynameisroland:
robban

just to clarify , I always fly Fw in whatever form the map offers me D9 44 being my favourite. I changed over to Spit and in doing so thought I could use its climb and manuverability against the Fw 190 A8's camped out over our base. So I climed to 4.5 k spotted an Fw 190 A8 at around 3k so I dived on it and tried to get a shot but he rolled away and down and i was left to climb and regain alt. Then I chased , diving as i described in other post and I couldnt catch him. It makes me realise that if I get caught by a Spit It is my mistake, I have made a boob somewhere and its left me open to interception. If a Fw doesnt want to disengage he doesnt have to against a Spit. This point was underlined after changing the perspective to see how the 'other side' flies.

rgr

Boemher <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
See your experience is the same as mine in the Spitfire...which is why I generally laugh extremely hard about the guys who suggest the UFO/uberlike qualities of the Spitfire exist. Its no more of a match than any other fighter.

Case in point, last night, I entered a server (Pingu was there later) with a largely Spitfire IX/Ki-84 mixup of aircraft with the random 109 and 190 tossed in.

I started flying a P-38L. An hour later, there was 4 P-38Ls, a couple of Mustangs, and the Spitfires had given way almost completely. I managed about 6-8 kills and 3-4 losses before I had to log off. Its piloting, tactics, luck, and skill...the myth of the uber plane exists. If anything, I FEEL uber in a FW190 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In general, there is a crowd that gravitates to the percieved easiest plane to fly. The Spitfire is fast, decent firepower, turns well, decent roll, and so on. Just like the Yak-3, La-7, and slightly lesser extents to the Ki-84 (which has a nasty stall habit), F4U-1C, and Bf.109. The actual performance of the aircraft isn't that interests them...its just whatever makes it easier to think less and still shoot down the enemy (and survivability tends to matter little as they always seem to have 10 and 20 points having never landed).

p1ngu666
03-10-2005, 06:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
flew a5 briefly yesterday, was fun with teh chemical brothers pumpin out music http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

need to that FA guys and others, who gave me a hand http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was fun there last night.flying FW-190 at 4000-6000 and survive all those pesty spits from 8000m-9000m. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, reminded me of flying, back in the day http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
03-10-2005, 06:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mynameisroland:
robban

just to clarify , I always fly Fw in whatever form the map offers me D9 44 being my favourite. I changed over to Spit and in doing so thought I could use its climb and manuverability against the Fw 190 A8's camped out over our base. So I climed to 4.5 k spotted an Fw 190 A8 at around 3k so I dived on it and tried to get a shot but he rolled away and down and i was left to climb and regain alt. Then I chased , diving as i described in other post and I couldnt catch him. It makes me realise that if I get caught by a Spit It is my mistake, I have made a boob somewhere and its left me open to interception. If a Fw doesnt want to disengage he doesnt have to against a Spit. This point was underlined after changing the perspective to see how the 'other side' flies.

rgr

Boemher <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
See your experience is the same as mine in the Spitfire...which is why I generally laugh extremely hard about the guys who suggest the UFO/uberlike qualities of the Spitfire exist. Its no more of a match than any other fighter.

Case in point, last night, I entered a server (Pingu was there later) with a largely Spitfire IX/Ki-84 mixup of aircraft with the random 109 and 190 tossed in.

I started flying a P-38L. An hour later, there was 4 P-38Ls, a couple of Mustangs, and the Spitfires had given way almost completely. I managed about 6-8 kills and 3-4 losses before I had to log off. Its piloting, tactics, luck, and skill...the myth of the uber plane exists. If anything, I FEEL uber in a FW190 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In general, there is a crowd that gravitates to the percieved easiest plane to fly. The Spitfire is fast, decent firepower, turns well, decent roll, and so on. Just like the Yak-3, La-7, and slightly lesser extents to the Ki-84 (which has a nasty stall habit), F4U-1C, and Bf.109. The actual performance of the aircraft isn't that interests them...its just whatever makes it easier to think less and still shoot down the enemy (and survivability tends to matter little as they always seem to have 10 and 20 points having never landed). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

after u left, i was in p38, i got in a fight with a yak3p, he ran outa ammo so he rammed me... but i survived http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif so i leg it back to base, engine pouring out black smoke, engines on fire again as i land, so i raise gear and belly it, knockin off engine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

feel suitablably please, fiddle about, finding best angle for screeny when a yak3 charges across and hits me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif, but im still alive http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

guy does same again, finaly killing me AND a poor spit that was flyin over http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
03-10-2005, 07:18 PM
Yeah I had a nasty encounter with someone and they shot my P-38 to bits but I still had both engines, one rudder, and most of both wings. Landed that plane with no problems http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
03-10-2005, 08:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Yeah I had a nasty encounter with someone and they shot my P-38 to bits but I still had both engines, one rudder, and most of both wings. Landed that plane with no problems http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

robban75
03-10-2005, 11:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

See your experience is the same as mine in the Spitfire...which is why I generally laugh extremely hard about the guys who suggest the UFO/uberlike qualities of the Spitfire exist. Its no more of a match than any other fighter.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What bugs me the most about the Spitfire is its nose pointing ability. Pulling up vertical at near stall speed, doing loops with an entry speed of 230km/h. No need for any rudder input as there's no torque effect whatsoever. It's not only an issue with the Spitfire I know, 109's can do it aswell, especially the G2, but as the Spitfire is the most popular allied fighter(whenever I'm online anyways) they tend to stick out more than others. But I'm guessing that the above metioned can be recognized as a semi UFO behavior. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

GH_Klingstroem
03-11-2005, 04:29 AM
I quite often hear things like Oh no, spitfires when I fly in a team of 190s. we cant do anything against them they say...
I instead feel: great, this means we can engage and disengage at will! You go in and if he sees you in time well then disengage. Dont dive away but just stay level. He can never ctach you anyway. When he gives up I turn around and chase him instead. Never ever fight a turnfight with them! Dontt even zoom up unless you have a huge a E advantge since the spit can zoom unbelievable well in the game! If there are 2 of you, the spit should be down in a fews mins... you can always disengage when you feel the situation isnt in your favour... a thing you cant do in every AC!

Lucius_Esox
03-11-2005, 05:10 AM
It does really strike me as odd that a post about how good the 190 is ends up saying how bad the Spitfire was?? Classic comment from robban above sums it all really. Pointing out what really bugs him about the Spitfire is it's nose pointing ability!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif It seems that in this thread if an aircraft does anything better than a 190 it is somehow not believed, labelled UFO etc. Makes me laugh and reminds me of when I was 18 talking about the various merits of my m/bike vis a vis someone elses, subjective claptrap most of it!

No offense meant anyone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

robban75
03-11-2005, 06:21 AM
Hey, just my opinion. Of course I could keep these opinions to my myself, but it's actually much more fun to vent them on these boards. Because maybe this discussion might end up giving good explanations on these matters. Making us more knowledgeable in the end. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hristo_
03-11-2005, 06:30 AM
Agreed with the title of this thread ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
03-11-2005, 06:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

See your experience is the same as mine in the Spitfire...which is why I generally laugh extremely hard about the guys who suggest the UFO/uberlike qualities of the Spitfire exist. Its no more of a match than any other fighter.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What bugs me the most about the Spitfire is its nose pointing ability. Pulling up vertical at near stall speed, doing loops with an entry speed of 230km/h. No need for any rudder input as there's no torque effect whatsoever. It's not only an issue with the Spitfire I know, 109's can do it aswell, especially the G2, but as the Spitfire is the most popular allied fighter(whenever I'm online anyways) they tend to stick out more than others. But I'm guessing that the above metioned can be recognized as a semi UFO behavior. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know exactly what you mean...however...its not just the Spitfire and the Spitfire isn't the worst offender. All Yaks, 109s, La's (even the lead weight LaGG-3) and even the Mustang can be looped at 230kph. I've seen tracks of a guy who used it. However, I think these have little bearing on any real fight. The Spitfire DID have some nose pointing ability. But if the FW190s are flying properly...that pointing of the nose and looping at near stall speed = instant death. I mean, how much easier of a target can you make yourself. Plus, to the Spitfires credit, those big wings have some advantages.

The FW190 isn't terribly good at doing a loop...but then the USN reports said just that. If you do loop a FW190, you do it at the bottom of a dive and very few fighters will be able to follow you doing it because of that awesome high speed elevator and airframe strength (its not going to shed a wing like the Mustang does).

So (and I'm not saying this to one person at all) I think people need to cut the Spitfire UFO comments and start being more fair on the issue. Its a general FM thing...not specifically related to the one fighter that they so hate.

And with all of that in mind...I love my FW190 flight time! GREAT fighter!

erichhartma_830
03-11-2005, 08:35 AM
other than the poor rate of climb and continues stalling at a turn its a great plane!!

but I do prefer the Bf-109k4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

p1ngu666
03-11-2005, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

See your experience is the same as mine in the Spitfire...which is why I generally laugh extremely hard about the guys who suggest the UFO/uberlike qualities of the Spitfire exist. Its no more of a match than any other fighter.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What bugs me the most about the Spitfire is its nose pointing ability. Pulling up vertical at near stall speed, doing loops with an entry speed of 230km/h. No need for any rudder input as there's no torque effect whatsoever. It's not only an issue with the Spitfire I know, 109's can do it aswell, especially the G2, but as the Spitfire is the most popular allied fighter(whenever I'm online anyways) they tend to stick out more than others. But I'm guessing that the above metioned can be recognized as a semi UFO behavior. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know exactly what you mean...however...its not just the Spitfire and the Spitfire isn't the worst offender. All Yaks, 109s, La's (even the lead weight LaGG-3) and even the Mustang can be looped at 230kph. I've seen tracks of a guy who used it. However, I think these have little bearing on any real fight. The Spitfire DID have some nose pointing ability. But if the FW190s are flying properly...that pointing of the nose and looping at near stall speed = instant death. I mean, how much easier of a target can you make yourself. Plus, to the Spitfires credit, those big wings have some advantages.

The FW190 isn't terribly good at doing a loop...but then the USN reports said just that. If you do loop a FW190, you do it at the bottom of a dive and very few fighters will be able to follow you doing it because of that awesome high speed elevator and airframe strength (its not going to shed a wing like the Mustang does).

So (and I'm not saying this to one person at all) I think people need to cut the Spitfire UFO comments and start being more fair on the issue. Its a general FM thing...not specifically related to the one fighter that they so hate.

And with all of that in mind...I love my FW190 flight time! GREAT fighter! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

p51 falls apart cos ppl whined for uber elivator authority (so u instantly pull more than 15g and fall apart..), and they got it...
190 has same, but skids thru turns more, so happens less...

VW-IceFire
03-11-2005, 01:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by erichhartma_830:
other than the poor rate of climb and continues stalling at a turn its a great plane!!

but I do prefer the Bf-109k4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
See you aren't a FW190 pilot... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It doesn't stall in a turn and its climb rate is quite good. Gotta know how to climb in a FW190. You have to manage the limited amount of wingloading that you have.

OldMan____
03-11-2005, 01:56 PM
Translating Ice fire.


In 190.. you must climb at high speed (>350). At 400 almost no plane can keep with it on a climb.

Jagdklinger
03-11-2005, 02:55 PM
The Fw190 COMMUNITY is awesome!

I must say, the 190 community is always the most helpful, partisan, enthusiastic one on the forums. I mean the P38 people (for example) are just as aware of the limitations of their plane (<insert your compressibility rant here); and the P47 people sure love their planes (unreasonably so, I think - ewww, useless AND ugly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, but the volume of 190 tactics, information, etc dwarfs them all.

Didn't the Spitfire get improved boost later in the war('44+)(to 25lbs or so) - is this modelled in the game? (Might help IX even up matters against the 44+ 190D/A9, if so). Actually, the only thing about Spits that I envy are the laser Hispanos (compared to our cr@p LW 20's).

I'm a 109 fan myself, but I think a change of alliegance is in the wind (repeat after me: Griffon Spit MkXIV... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
03-11-2005, 03:15 PM
yes spits got griffon engines and the IX and VIII got upgraded to 25lb boost, which puts them in 109 mw50 area at low and medium alts

we have mid 43 spits, lw stablemates a4,5,6 and g2 g6 and g6late

XIV was in active squadron service in janurary and feburary, about 6 months before the mw50 109's, dora and a9 (not sure on 190's)
190a8 is about same time tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
03-11-2005, 03:21 PM
oh, 25lb boost is around dday time, similer time frame to mw50 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif