PDA

View Full Version : Later 109s lamer os it me?



XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 01:40 PM
Are the late war 109s worse than before or is it me?

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 01:40 PM
Are the late war 109s worse than before or is it me?

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 01:50 PM
They are not worse.
They are different.
Even better.
Maybe...

<center>

http://www.goblins.net/immagini/Logo/tdglogo_eng.gif </p>

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 01:53 PM
no they are not worse they are better, only the Allied planes got better when the later G and K model where introduced

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 03:11 PM
I'm finding them incredibly fragile...seems like one shot, one wing gone...

Just me?

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 03:31 PM
They sure feel lamer, and they aren't as strong either. However, you've got gunpods with explosive shells on the K-4 which makes it worth it


-McTriggerhappy

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 04:20 PM
They are worse.

As they SHOULD be.



-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 04:22 PM
kweassa wrote:
-
- They are worse.
-
-
- As they SHOULD be.


You forgot: La7 and Yak3 are better than they SHOULD be.


<center> http://www.stormbirds.com/images/discussion-main.jpg </center>

Message Edited on 08/29/0310:32AM by Huckebein_FW

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 05:01 PM
IMHO they are extremely fragile

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 05:12 PM
It's all the 109's and you. Just don't get hit. period, or you're dead.

Boosher-PBNA
----------------
<center>Heaven is a place where the French are the cooks, the British are the butlers, the Germans are the mechanics, and the Swiss are the politicians. Hell is a place where the British are the cooks, the French are the butlers, the Swiss are the mechanics and the Germans are the politicians.<center>
<center>Boosher-ProudBirds-VFW<center>
http://proudbirdswing.tripod.com/proudbirds.htm

http://www.escadrila54.com/logo_sm.jpg

<center><marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"The ProudBirds..Flying High and Proud..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 05:19 PM
For those of you who think the 109's are better post-patch, please explain how they are better? Because the 108 has been made a bit more effective?

The later 109's are all slower after the patch with decreased climb rates and slower acceleration.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/rcafpost.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 06:12 PM
Chadburn wrote:
- For those of you who think the 109's are better
- post-patch, please explain how they are better?
- Because the 108 has been made a bit more effective?
-
- The later 109's are all slower after the patch with
- decreased climb rates and slower acceleration.

By later I assume you mean G-10 and K-4? Don't know. I never really got into them pre-patch so I can't really say. The latest I like is the G-6A/S. But I think all of them up to that point including the G-6 and especially the G-6 late, ROCK now. With all the debate about the Jug's rate of roll it seems to me that everyone missed that the 109s roll rate is much better. At least it seems so to me.

Later 109s? I'll only fly 'em if that's what's available in a mission. But I'm very happy with the other 109s post patch.

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 06:20 PM
OH god yes! It's much worse and There have been infinite threads about it, with the reality police threating your with a plague of locust and whatnot if you do't accept that this is the perfect 109, and that a single machine gun bullet is suppose to hit your oil can at 10,000 yards and cause it to teleport it's contents out of the engine houseing and onto your windscreen..

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 06:25 PM
verde13 wrote:
- Are the late war 109s worse than before or is it me?


It's you. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

- Dux Corvan -

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 06:27 PM
GreySaber14 wrote:
- OH god yes! It's much worse and There have been
- infinite threads about it, with the reality police
- threating your with a plague of locust and whatnot
- if you do't accept that this is the perfect 109, and
- that a single machine gun bullet is suppose to hit
- your oil can at 10,000 yards and cause it to
- teleport it's contents out of the engine houseing
- and onto your windscreen..
-
-


I'm finding the single machinge gun bullet is hitting some special "wing drop off" switch when I fly. Never see or feel any hits or tracers flying by...just one second the wing is there, then it's gone...
I'm the first to admit I'm not the best pilot (or even good for that matter) but I always end up wingless after a few seconds flying the 109 now (not pre patch though - dont know if that is cooincidence?).
Flying the 190 I have no such prob (and yes, I know it is a tougher bird)..just the 109 - which is my fave LW plance so I'd prefer not to switch...

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 07:25 PM
LilHorse, yes I do mean the later versions with boost.

Besides roll rate what other improvements have you noticed? I don't use roll rate as a tactic in the 109 since most allied planes outroll it, but I have noticed that the ability to spiral climb is not as effective.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/rcafpost.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 07:30 PM
Its you

---------------------------------------
A to the K to 4 to the 7 little
devils dont go heaven Freedom got a AK
---------------------------------------

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 08:12 PM
their UFO climbrate has been corrected

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 08:31 PM
They aren't worse, but they are definitely different. The weapons are more potent, their turn rate has been improved, elevator control diminishes substantially at high dive speeds (as it should be btw). All are changes to the air craft that seem to be more accurate. (IM educated O)




http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 08:31 PM
Chadburn wrote:
- LilHorse, yes I do mean the later versions with
- boost.
-
- Besides roll rate what other improvements have you
- noticed? I don't use roll rate as a tactic in the
- 109 since most allied planes outroll it, but I have
- noticed that the ability to spiral climb is not as
- effective.

I like the fact that now it doesn't disintegrate in a dive anymore. Used to be the thing would start to lose it's ailerons at a little above 750kph (about 472mph). Now you can take it up to 850kph (or around 535mph) and not have to worry about not being able to fly home after a pass.

The MK-108 is indeed better, but I find that the 7.92 and 12.7mm seem to be better as well. But I suppose that's true accross all the a/c that use those MGs.

Overall, the middle 109s (Fs and Gs to the -6AS) just feel a little more manouverable and a little faster to me.

And the Emils, which I liked pre-patch and still like, fly more like they should. The E-4 was uber to the point of ridiculous before. Now they are sluggards compared to the later models, but I still like 'em.

As for the spiral climb, it was never one of my favorite tactics since all your bogie needed was his wingie to come in and whack you while you're trying to climb away. So I couldn't tell you. Overall, I'm happy with the 109s now.

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:59 PM
You're right. I can't win any fight on Bf 109 G and K against Yak 9 La 7 P-39. Before I could - many times. There is something wrong. I have to uninstal the path

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 10:50 PM
GreySaber14 wrote:
- OH god yes! It's much worse and There have been
- infinite threads about it, with the reality police
- threating your with a plague of locust and whatnot
- if you do't accept that this is the perfect 109, and
- that a single machine gun bullet is suppose to hit
- your oil can at 10,000 yards and cause it to
- teleport it's contents out of the engine houseing
- and onto your windscreen..

Teleports to the windscreen?

If the engine of the 109 was designed as you claim that no oil can make it to the windscreen then why were some 109 models fitted with sprayers that used fuel to wash off the oil of the windscreen when needed?

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 11:34 PM
*Sigh*

High-Alt FM has major issues - be sure /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The MW-50 in the 109's has problems as does CEM in general. For example when flying at 110% power (no MW50) you can actually fly faster than 110% power + MW 50.

Go figure......

(8500M)

(Rad closed MW50 = 724 Kph)
(Rad closed NO MW50 = 753 Kph)

The 109's are not modelled correctly. Remember the 103% throttle but in V1.0? Well we have all sorts of wierdness now, wait for the next patch methinks /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/jg5_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 11:43 PM
I think it`s you mate. Late 109`s are extreamly capable and if flown right, practicaly untouchable. And it`s alot easier to nail any VVS aircraft nowdays...cause it takes only 1-2 rounds of MK108 and it`s over. Engine management and flying style is key to success IMO.

V!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 12:29 AM
JG5_UnKle wrote:
- *Sigh*
-
- High-Alt FM has major issues - be sure /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- The MW-50 in the 109's has problems as does CEM in
- general. For example when flying at 110% power (no
- MW50) you can actually fly faster than 110% power +
- MW 50.
-
- Go figure......
-
- (8500M)
-
- (Rad closed MW50 = 724 Kph)
- (Rad closed NO MW50 = 753 Kph)
-
- The 109's are not modelled correctly. Remember the
- 103% throttle but in V1.0? Well we have all sorts of
- wierdness now, wait for the next patch methinks /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
-
- JG5_UnKle
-
- "Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane.
- If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does,
- will kick your ***"
-
-


Ahhh, thanks for the tip. Noticed how fast they decellerate once you pull it back to 100% and the MW-50 stops, drop from 570 to 500 in 15 seconds or less in a level cruise. Like throwing out a boat anchor, rediculous.

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 01:34 AM
theyre more realistic http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 01:39 AM
The K-4 is less everything in my opinion, but I can't say whether or not it's more or less realistic. All I know is I can set up the K-4 against and Russian AI on ace level in QMB and kill the pinko most of the time. Don't know how it would stack up against humans opponents since I don't fly online much.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 02:19 AM
We discussing Las and Yaks here Huck?

Perhaps you should try reading the title of the thread before posting. Your automatic "Detect Anti-LW and Retaliate" function is starting to annoy a lot of people, m8.

-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!


Message Edited on 08/30/0310:22AM by kweassa

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 02:50 AM
JG5_UnKle wrote:
- *Sigh*
-
- The MW-50 in the 109's has problems as does CEM in
- general. For example when flying at 110% power (no
- MW50) you can actually fly faster than 110% power +
- MW 50.
-
- Go figure......
-
- (8500M)
-
- (Rad closed MW50 = 724 Kph)
- (Rad closed NO MW50 = 753 Kph)

This is the kind of stuff I must admit I'm tiring of. CEM in LW planes means Cryptic Engine Management. There is always some kind of quirk someone uncovers, like the 103% throttle in ver. 1.0.





http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/rcafpost.jpg



Message Edited on 08/29/0311:01PM by Chadburn

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 04:00 AM
kweassa wrote:
- We discussing Las and Yaks here Huck?
-
- Perhaps you should try reading the title of the
- thread before posting. Your automatic "Detect
- Anti-LW and Retaliate" function is starting to annoy
- a lot of people, m8.


What answer such a post deserve?

kweassa wrote:
-
- They are worse.
-
-
- As they SHOULD be.


It was a clear insult, since you know very well that many VVS planes were also like they shouldn't.

As for post patch 109, I personally find it better, especially since the performance put up by the competition was corrected (I was interested mostly in the speed loss problem for the early years planes). I do think that G2 is overmodelled, it's climbing like a K4, I also think that F4, G6 and E4 are undermodelled in turn with 2 seconds per 360 degrees turn. And turn speeds on all 109 are incorrect.

G2 is my favorite 109, but I'm not afraid to admit that is overmodelled. I don't really understand why is so hard to admit the obvious that Yak3 and La7 are indeed overmodelled (with 2 sec per 360 deg turn if we are talking turning performance). You and Bogun used to post interesting facts, now all that I see are those one liners filled with insults.


<center> http://www.stormbirds.com/images/discussion-main.jpg </center>

Message Edited on 08/29/0310:00PM by Huckebein_FW

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 04:09 AM
I also wonder about the control surface DM on the 109's. MG fire from direct 6 seems to almost always result in complete loss of rudder, elevator or aeleron control. And I'm not talking about a long, sustained burst of a second or two. It happens so frequently that it is not the result of ace VVS sniper fire, it just seems the cables are the size of 2x4's and made of peanut brittle.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/rcafpost.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 06:56 AM
My problem isn't so much with turning etc but with its durability.Many times i have been forced to land after a single shot that hit the engine.Plus it explodes much easier when it hits the ground in a crash landing.

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 07:01 AM
Absolutely, durability of Bf-109 is poorly modelled. There was no russian fighter in service tougher than Bf-109 (though the radial engine of La series might be tougher) and yet in FB we get a different picture.


<center> http://www.stormbirds.com/images/discussion-main.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 07:10 AM
"Heaven is a place where the French are the cooks, the British are the butlers, the Germans are the mechanics, and the Swiss are the politicians. Hell is a place where the British are the cooks, the French are the butlers, the Swiss are the mechanics and the Germans are the politicians."

Hey Boosher, you've got it a little wrong.

Actually, it should read:

"In Heaven, British are the police, the Germans are the mechanics, the French are the cooks, the Italians are the lovers, and the Swiss are in charge.

"In Hell, the British are the cooks, the French are the mechanics, the Germans are the police, the Swiss are the lovers, and the Italians are in charge."

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:08 AM
"What answer such a post deserve?"

Maybe the post where you dragged in planes irrelevant to this discussion on the changes between the Bf109s of v1.0 and v1.0?


"It was a clear insult, since you know very well that many VVS planes were also like they shouldn't."

Insult on what? Saying the 109s are worse off "as they should be", for instance, stiff controls at high speeds, lowered maximum speed at deck.. and etc.?

What you could have done, is ask me "as they should be, like how?" before assuming it was an 'insult' - if you met an answer you didn't like, then maybe you could have pointed out discrepancies within my posts that would seem like an unfair double standard.

But as it stands, you were convinced the single sentence I wrote, was an insult to the LW planes.

That, really can't be my fault, could it?

If you had posted just the following parts which goes "As for post patch 109,....", without the hostile junk above it, there wouldn't have been any problems, would there?








-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!


Message Edited on 08/30/0304:10PM by kweassa