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Hannah264
11-08-2010, 09:14 AM
Will Rosa be in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood?

Cornik22
11-08-2010, 10:09 AM
No

MT4K
11-08-2010, 10:39 AM
i imagine she will make at least some kind of cameo

PhiIs1618033
11-08-2010, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Cornik22:
No
Unproven.

Gabe said that 'we haven't really said much about her, have we?', so we're in the dark at the moment.

jlorence
11-08-2010, 12:15 PM
They're gonna make babies, then Rosa becomes playable since the Animus can no longer follow Ezio anymore.

SWJS
11-08-2010, 12:18 PM
They're gonna make babies, then Rosa becomes playable since the Animus can no longer follow Ezio anymore.
This statement is just... so ludicrous. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

We wouldn't be able to play as Rosa. We'd be following her womb for nine months. LOL

Sparty2020
11-08-2010, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They're gonna make babies, then Rosa becomes playable since the Animus can no longer follow Ezio anymore.
This statement is just... so ludicrous. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

We wouldn't be able to play as Rosa. We'd be following her womb for nine months. LOL </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Technically we're only following Altair's and Ezio's... seed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Tuck2103
11-08-2010, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by j_lorence:
They're gonna make babies, then Rosa becomes playable since the Animus can no longer follow Ezio anymore.

I can't wait for Assassin's Womb 1 to come out already!

obliviondoll
11-09-2010, 07:33 AM
Ummmm... You know if Rosa parented one of Desmond's ancestors, that means she's an ancestor of his too, right?

He should be able to relive ANY ancestor's memories through the animus, but he should only be able to relive their memories up to the point where the next ancestor was conceived.

If, for example, Rosa IS Desmond's great-great-etc. grandmother, he should be able to relive either Ezio's OR Rosa's memories up until she becomes pregnant. Anything after that would be viewed from the perspective of the child, not Ezio OR Rosa.

But we don't know for sure that Rosa's going to be in the game anyway. We also don't know if she's going to have Ezio's babies even if she is in the game.

Tuck2103
11-09-2010, 09:25 AM
Well someone has to be Ezio's wife, or Desmond will never exist. But if it has to be one girl, I'm all for Rosa http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

obliviondoll
11-09-2010, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Tuck2103:
Well someone has to be Ezio's wife, or Desmond will never exist.
So you missed the beginning of AC2?

(SPOILER)

Ezio did things at the beginning of the game which would potentially produce children, and he wasn't married then.

(END SPOILER)

You don't have to be married to have children.

lilbacchant
11-09-2010, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
He should be able to relive ANY ancestor's memories through the animus, [....]

According to my knowledge of genetics and biology (which I'll grant is limited), Desmond --or anyone for that matter -- should be unable to relive the memories of any female.

Why?

The last I heard, it's believed that all of the human female's finite number of eggs are made, and therefore already present, before her birth (unlike males, who continually produce new sperm throughout their lives). And since the eggs contain the genetic material that she'd pass on -- i.e., dna -- her genetic material can't have any experiential memories.

Of course, this is a video game, so the writers don't have to play by scientific rules if they don't want to. But technically, according to RL genetics, only male ancestors are accessible via the animus.

RandomRansom
11-09-2010, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by lilbacchant:

According to my knowledge of genetics and biology (which I'll grant is limited), Desmond --or anyone for that matter -- should be unable to relive the memories of any female.

Why?

The last I heard, it's believed that all of the human female's finite number of eggs are made, and therefore already present, before her birth (unlike males, who continually produce new sperm throughout their lives). And since the eggs contain the genetic material that she'd pass on -- i.e., dna -- her genetic material can't have any experiential memories.

Of course, this is a video game, so the writers don't have to play by scientific rules if they don't want to. But technically, according to RL genetics, only male ancestors are accessible via the animus.

Well, then the writers aren't following RL genetics or your knowledge of genetics is incomplete. One or the other. I'll use these few examples simply as an argument because it's the most logical one: Courtesan, Smuggler, and other MP characters. If no female can be accessed because their eggs don't contain female DNA memories, then we (aka Assassins or the Templars in game) shouldn't be able to "play" as these females.

Here's one more argument for the sake of sake. Any female offspring could hold the experiences from the mother she was conceived from (the child's eggs came into being while in the mother's womb and the DNA of the mother is used create them... not ONLY the DNA from the mother's egg). So you wouldn't be able to access the daughter's genetic memory but you might be able to access the mother's memory using the daughter (until that daughter had a daughter of her own who would carry the genetic memory of the mother in the daughter's formed eggs).

I know that last argument might be flawed (it sounds very close to flawed to me, though I don't have a ton of knowledge in genetics either). But I guess I'm just trying to find ways to make the female MP characters and any future female protagonist characters work in the game world (from my understanding, genetic memory is still more sci-fi than science).

I'm sure it could be argued that the exchange of blood and the near parasitic nature of a child in womb could pass on some genetic memories from the mother. Then there's also the supposed "psychic" connection that a mother has with child (especially in womb).

If those angles are used, then maybe a female protagonist could even present issues for Desmond that wouldn't be present in a male ancestor. I think that could be cool. Something like... possible memory corruption or inaccuracies that they have to investigate in modern times to verify. That would then give a major reason why Desmond would start to play a much larger role in ACIII.

I kind of like that idea... I'm posting this inside the thread dealing with ACIII.

bokeef04
11-09-2010, 06:40 PM
true, but the eggs aren't mature, only one or two per cycle, so for all we or scientists know the eggs may not actually receive all the DNA from the mother until they are mature, could be why certain genetic conditions are more prevalent when the woman is over 40, from memory down syndrome is one that the risk is of a child having it is increased if a woman conceives after the age of 40

lilbacchant
11-09-2010, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by bokeef04:
true, but the eggs aren't mature, only one or two per cycle, so for all we or scientists know the eggs may not actually receive all the DNA from the mother until they are mature, could be why certain genetic conditions are more prevalent when the woman is over 40, from memory down syndrome is one that the risk is of a child having it is increased if a woman conceives after the age of 40

Good point, bokeef.

It encouraged me to take a trip to Wikipedia, so it deserves an extra "Kudos!". Otoh, that trip reminded me why I hate cellular biology, so ... give me that "Kudos!" back. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

lilbacchant
11-09-2010, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by RandomRansom:
I know that last argument might be flawed (it sounds very close to flawed to me, though I don't have a ton of knowledge in genetics either). But I guess I'm just trying to find ways to make the female MP characters and any future female protagonist characters work in the game world (from my understanding, genetic memory is still more sci-fi than science).


The daughter/mother argument was indeed flawed from the logical standpoint, but that's largely immaterial now.

Fortunately, Bokeef provided a scientific loophole, so to speak, that'd allow the story writers (without jeapordizing their sci-fi credentials) to incorporate the memories of female ancestors. I say "fortunately" because I'd love to play a female assassin, but not at the expense of breaking all connection w/ the laws of nature.

The idea of genetic memory as portrayed in AC is indeed sci-fi and certainly not accepted within mainstream scientific circles. However, most of the human genome contains what many geneticists refer to as "junk dna", which is another way of saying, "we don't have a clue why it's there or what it does, if anything." In otherwords, there exists a sizable gap in current scientific knowledge that allows for the ripe use of genetic memory without violating what is known.

RandomRansom
11-09-2010, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by lilbacchant:
The daughter/mother argument was indeed flawed from the logical standpoint, but that's largely immaterial now.

Fortunately, Bokeef provided a scientific loophole, so to speak, that'd allow the story writers (without jeapordizing their sci-fi credentials) to incorporate the memories of female ancestors. I say "fortunately" because I'd love to play a female assassin, but not at the expense of breaking all connection w/ the laws of nature.

The idea of genetic memory as portrayed in AC is indeed sci-fi and certainly not accepted within mainstream scientific circles. However, most of the human genome contains what many geneticists refer to as "junk dna", which is another way of saying, "we don't have a clue why it's there or what it does, if anything." In otherwords, there exists a sizable gap in current scientific knowledge that allows for the ripe use of genetic memory without violating what is known.

The mother/daughter argument isn't utterly flawed (but it's one that I'm abandoning due to the original mention of its probable flawed concept).

After some research, it seems it's possible that through synapsis and chromosomal crossover occurring while the ovum heads toward maturation, new genetic memories could possibly be passed on. However, since I'm not a genetics major or anything, I'm not sure if all of this occurs within the ovum before it is mature (i.e. no new genetic material introduced into the "egg" after birth) or not. If no new material is introduced by the mother prior to synapsis and chromosomal crossover, then we're back to the original genetic issue.

Synapsis and chromosomal crossover allows for variability in offspring, but if the genetic material that is being used (that in the immature ova) was there since birth, then genetic memories wouldn't be transferred (they wouldn't even be present).

Using this logic, if no new material from the mother is introduced pre-synapsis etc., then not even the mother's memories could be passed on to the daughter's ova (because the mother's ova was there since her birth and don't carry her memories).

However, since there are female individuals you can "play" using the animus, there must be at least some genetic memory passed on. So either there is new genetic material introduced during ovum maturation (from outside ova to inside) or there is some other way that the female genetic memory is passed to child (male or female). That's why I went into possible partial memory transfer while the mother is pregnant. That's possibly through blood sharing, umbilical cord, amniotic fluid, or... the less scientific psychic link between mother and child (but while dealing with the sci-fi genetic memory... why not?).

Before you shoot down the psychic link, I'll use your argument to make it within the realm of possibility. Maybe there's something in that "junk DNA" that psychically passes on genetic memory to a mother's offspring. Now even that could be in the sizable gap in current scientific knowledge about "junk DNA" allowing for the ripe use of a psychic link during pregnancy without violating what is known