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View Full Version : Tired of AI running away so fast I can't catch them



sledgehammer2
10-08-2005, 11:39 PM
Not trying to be a whiner here, but I was trying a UQMG set-up with a P-38J against a Bf-109 G-10. Long story short I tried the set-up from both sides and I could never get within effective shooting distance. I used to think that it was because I never used CEM, but I have been using it now and it made no difference, I still couldn't catch the enemy.

Speaking of CEM, and I guess this is a separate topic, but in the 109 I tried to make adjustments to rpm, mix, and supercharger and nothing responded. What am I missing there?

In the Lightning I got no response from mix or supercharger, so if anybody could tell me what I am missing there I would appreciate it.

The AI being able to run away has been discussed before I think but I couldn't recall. Is this something that the next patch might address?

Regards,
Sledgehammer2

Waldo.Pepper
10-09-2005, 12:11 AM
http://airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_cem.htm

Tully__
10-09-2005, 06:14 AM
That particular pair seem to be fairly evenly matched for speed (at least between 2500-4500m where I just flew the same match up). You need to anticipate the other aircrafts moves and fly to where he's going to be, not where he's currently pointed. At the same time you need to avoid losing energy in tight manouvers (unless it's going to bring you withing shooting range) and try to build your energy advantage whenever you have the oppurtunity.

I found it something of a struggle at first (I haven't flown much at all recently and not against AI for a couple of patch versions) and probably wouldn't have ever cought the 109 while flying the P-38, but once I got in the 109 I was able to "cut the corner" at just the right time and get one of the P-38 engines smoking, then it was just a matter of time before those big German cannon made confetti out of the Lockheed.

If I'd been able to manage a similar disabling hit on the 109 while flying the P-38 the outcome would have been similar against the 109

Tully__
10-09-2005, 06:23 AM
On the CEM issue:

109 has auto pitch. You have to turn off auto to use manual. Be careful as if you do this with a high throttle setting the engine will fry as the 109 manual prop pitch is true manual, not contsant speed prop as in most of the allied aicraft. It goes straight to 100% pitch (full fine) when auto is toggled off and if you have full throttle the engine will terminally over rev.

109 mix and turbosupercharger are also auto or self regulating.

The P-38 is also turbosupercharged and hence self regulating on the supercharger front and most (if not all) of the American aircraft have auto mixture.

VW-IceFire
10-09-2005, 06:46 AM
The AI is just really fast and unwilling to fight in this patch. Hopefully the AI is tweaked a bit and is more interested in fighting.

roybaty
10-09-2005, 06:58 AM
Turn around and they will re-engage you from my observations, then you manuever to keep nice and tight.

Jumoschwanz
10-09-2005, 08:26 AM
The AI is fine in this patch.

It will attack you if it is not damaged and has more than enough fuel to get back to base, it just will not do anything stupid like a human virtual pilot on an arcade server will.

When it gets far enough away to set up an attack with an advantage it will attack!

If you want it to attack faster simply give it the advantage by turning parallel or away from it and it will come after you.

Don't expect it to fly stupidly just so you can have your own kind of fun though. The AI does not read each users mind and fly how they wish, or like each noob that buys the sim thinks it should!

And on the CEM, it is a "difficulty" setting that you apparently have disabled. You can find it on the two pages of difficulty settings this sim has and enable it, or simply select the "Realistic" setting to fly under and it will be automatically selected for you.

You seem like you need to spend some of your time reading the manual that comes with the sim.

Jumoschwanz

J_Weaver
10-09-2005, 08:52 AM
I thought there was a known bug about the ai being too fast? As I remember it has something to do with the fact that the ai doesn't bleed energy as fast as the player.

Is this correct or do I need more coffee? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Tobak
10-09-2005, 09:18 AM
There are quite a number of problems with the AI after the last patch. Unwillingness to fight, they still know when you reach the magical 400-300 meter barrier below-behind them even if they can't see you, your own flight goes back home when they are out of ammo and they say nothing when you issue a target fighters/bombers/whatever command, 2nd flight cannot be commanded (rejoin command off set route), AI planes go some 60 kilometer diameter circles before they would repeat attack the given target, etc. It is a known bunch of problems. Hope it will be corrected in the next patch.
If I have to choose whether to have new planes or corrected AI, well I'm into the second one!

Tobak
10-09-2005, 09:19 AM
There are quite a number of problems with the AI since the last patch. Unwillingness to fight, they still know when you reach the magical 400-300 meter barrier below-behind them even if they can't see you, your own flight goes back home when they are out of ammo and they say nothing when you issue a target fighters/bombers/whatever command, 2nd flight cannot be commanded (rejoin command off set route), AI planes go some 60 kilometer diameter circles before they would repeat attack the given target, etc. It is a known bunch of problems. Hope it will be corrected in the next patch.
If I have to choose whether to have new planes or corrected AI, well I'm into the second one!

SeaFireLIV
10-09-2005, 09:28 AM
How many times do I see this happen? It wasn`t that long ago that people were complaining quite vehemently about AI not running when it was at a disadvantage and about AI fighting when it shouldn`t.

But now that the AI actually judges a situation that`s not to it`s advantage and runs if it knows it`s faster, we get complaints on this!

****ed if Oleg does, ****ed if he don`t!

I like it this way (although I never whined about it either way) because it`s realistic and good training for ONLINE because this is exactly what real life 109/ 190 virtual pilots will do as soon as they sniff possible defeat!

This is really a RED/BLUE thing again, isn`t it? The Blues love it cos now their AI survive and the REDs hate it because they can`t catch AI. Well I`m a Reds man and always fly the `c r a p` planes like the I16 and boy, do I know what it`s like to be left in the dust. But I think it`s good.

Tobak
10-09-2005, 09:41 AM
The problem is not about red/blue planes. I love all of them, no matter what country made them. The problem is, as sledgehammer2 put it that almost every plane use the very same tactics. So if you switch the situation in QMB the same thing happens most of the time. And the circling goes on, until chaser and chased reach some 9-10 kilometer altitude and then usually the chaser blows the chased one into shreds.

However when playing a mission the situation is so complex, that there are much more opportunities to get into position. No point in climbing up, when you have to protect your strike flight, is it?

Grey_Mouser67
10-09-2005, 09:57 AM
The only thing I've found off from AI that is what I would call a bug is that the AI can fly faster than some planea should be able to fly while climbing and it accelarates faster in a dive. G-10 is a good match speed wise for a J model...try the L late and you'll have a better historical match up and real match up. The J model would be most likely to face G6 early and late and Fw 190A-5,6,8's...maybe G-14's....those that faced G-10, G-6 A/S (really G14A/s, and K-4) would have had dive brakes retrofitted etc most likely...I'm not sure what plane the regular L model is trying to be but nothing I've seen as it is way too slow...although the J model is poorly modelled in the climb...about 1000ft/min too slow at low alt with inaccurate heavy elevators.

The Speedy AI has been reported as a bug but I don't know if it will get addressed...I notice it most on 109's so I think it might be related to the prop pitch exploit...that is the AI are using it to gain an advantage.

We'll see what the next patch brings...it always brings something!

sledgehammer2
10-09-2005, 10:14 AM
Whoa there Jumoschwanze - I'm not some noob here looking for a reason to *****. I thought I stated that but maybe it didn't come through. As for the difficulty setting it is not turned off... the CEM is fully enabled and I believe I said that too.

I don't expect the AI to fly stupidly so I can have my own kind of fun, I was simply questioning one aspect of its behavior.

I appreciate the responses here that provided constructive advice.

Brain32
10-09-2005, 11:25 AM
How many times do I see this happen? It wasn`t that long ago that people were complaining quite vehemently about AI not running when it was at a disadvantage and about AI fighting when it shouldn`t.

Please tell me, do you think it's normal that when in disadvantage and decide to run you run to base or do you think it's normal to climb in circles up to 10Km http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Now to get serious, the only tactics that works was described best by roybaty. No CEM,lead, yo-yo's or whatever, works, I'm 99,5% offline player since orig il2 and I tried everything possible, this(4.01m) is by far the best AI ever but we have this (very)annoying bug. I't had occasionally happened before(3.04 and older) but AI would then just climb aprox. 2km above starting height(QMB) and it was not SO fast.
If you don't believe in this bug try to fly P-51D vs Zero's in QMB, the result may be shocking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

lowfighter
10-10-2005, 01:40 PM
AI like P51, P47 etc will try to B&Z if they have the proper conditions and any way will not try to turn with a zero and in fact with any other aircraft. This is really NICE, in previous game versions B&Z planes like FW190 would try to outturn il2's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
T&B AI like the zeros of course are trying the other way arround.

So yes if I'm in a zero and the AI is a p47 I do have a really hard time to catch the guy, as repeatedly said by other posters you have to pretend you're not anymore intersted to fight that bandit. But a really good zero fighter ( I know a couple) can catch the ai p47 even without this, The p47 will always turn and zoom down after he thinks he's high enough and far enough from you, that's the moment.

Just try with previous versions and see how 'nice' are the AI. I'm very pleased with the last AI version, not perfect, sometimes stupid, BUT overall much better, and miles more human http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif . (a humanity of the real war pilot who would not want to die so quickly as we do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Kuna15
10-10-2005, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
I'm 99,5% offline player since orig il2 and I tried everything possible, this(4.01m) is by far the best AI ever but we have this (very)annoying bug. I't had occasionally happened before(3.04 and older) but AI would then just climb aprox. 2km above starting height(QMB) and it was not SO fast.
If you don't believe in this bug try to fly P-51D vs Zero's in QMB, the result may be shocking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I too regard new AI as real good yes. But you are so true when you said that high altitude dogfight is something completely different.

Heh, I have take a ride in P-47 v A6M7. I did a vertical loops AROUND Zero. But altitude was high, around and above 7,5k. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif