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View Full Version : Solution to the "S!", and "shoulder shooting" online



Jumoschwanz
03-28-2005, 12:15 PM
After a fight whether a shooter or shootee, use the "GK"(goodkill), or "GF"(goodfight) instead of the S! These are less ambiguous, and less likely to be misconstrued as a "dig".

As for shoulder shooting, recently on greatergreen someone in an La5fn shot over my shoulder while I was firing on an opponent, they then flew in front of me, got hits on my target and got the kill, this after I had been engaged in a DF for quite a while with the opponent.
My solution was to shoot down the shoulder shooter, yes it was a friendly kill and I did not feel bad about it in the least. It was easy as he was two plane lengths in front of me. I stopped his engine with my last ammo, and then to make sure he didn't ditch or dead stick it in I rammed him and took him out. Then I typed to everyone else in the server that I would do the same again in the same situation. Of course then I was the jerk and the whiner of the server.

Yea, this is an extreme way of dealing with the issue, but Dacripler was right, play on the Hyperlobby cockpit-on servers was way more honorable and chivalrous two to three years ago than it is now. The servers are all full of the so called "airquake" kids. I even have tracks saved of teamates HITTING ME while they shoot over my shoulder, so why can't I shoot back?

Why? I think keeping stats on servers is a big part of the problem. Keeping stats naturally encourages competition and makes everyone worry about thiers somewhat or a lot.

On the pre-FBD dogfight servers I think everyone had a lot better time with no stats, no goals, no winners and no losers. Sure someone would have a ton of points and some would have none, but this was not consistent. I would get hight points on a server some nights, and most others I would not do $hit, but everyone had a good night now and then, and everyone tried to help each other out and take the newbs under their wings.
Also, that's the way most poeple are, not just in online Hyperlobby servers but in every aspect of life. Maybe it is all our job to help each other grow up, to raise each other a bit. So, from now on shoot anyone down that shoots over your shoulder, and be d*am#ned the consequences. This will negate any reason for them being so anxious to be kill hogs and point *****s.

Once again, yes this is unorthodox and extreme a remedy. But nothing else is working at all, things are going to he11 in a hand-basket, and this DOES get thier attention.

I have done this now and again over the last few years, and I will do it again. Maybe I will get banned from some servers here and there but the issue and the point I make is more important.
If a server admin could PERMANENTLY BAN someone if they are sent a track of shoulder shooting, foul language or instigating trouble with the chat bar or breaking another server rule, this might make a difference, but I don't think any server admins have the nuts for this, if they did things would be different.

I have used the foulest language on server chat bars that was ever heard, and have commited every sin an online pilot could make. But usually the bad language was a response to another pilots bad etiquette, and most of the sins I commited flying were when I was new to the game and did not know any better.

In summary, I never liked the S!, it was too ambiguous. And If I am on a server full of gentlemen, then it is easy to be a gentleman too. But there are no servers left full of gentlemen and it makes it hard to stay clean.

When a teamate is on a tail, I DO watch from a bit away and look for other foes, and to see if he gets into any trouble or runs out of ammo. I do enjoy a good one on one match and the GK, or GF response that follows. I do miss the old pre-FBD servers that let everyone fight for hours on end without changing maps and keeping stats. Those worried about stats were always the worst of the lot even in the old days, they were not there for the right reasons. S!

Jumoschwanz

NorrisMcWhirter
03-28-2005, 12:23 PM
You're flying in the wrong servers, m8.

If I happen to be admining, I regularly boot people for swearing, deliberately stealing kills, "loitering" (taking up slots by not playing) etc.

They don't do it twice.

But if they do, they get a permament ban http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,
Norris

Jumoschwanz
03-28-2005, 12:25 PM
Cool

geetarman
03-28-2005, 12:31 PM
I agree to the extent that this "stat craze" is beginning to have some negative effects on OL play. High kills mean nothing if there is no final, drastic penalty for your efforts - death. That being the case, some pilots are now going to great lengths, including inappropriate conduct towards teammates, to get a large number of kills. Why not, I'll accept a five minute ban.

Last week, one pilot on TS was even "coaching" our side on how to get shot down and avoid getting listed as "killed." Thankfully, that night, he was met by stony silence by his teammates also on TS.

gates123
03-28-2005, 12:34 PM
This game is alot more popular then it was 2-3 years ago and alot of fps online junkies have been converted. You have to take this into account. More gamers = more noobs, its just the nature of the beast. Play any online game in the world and your gonna get kill stealing, its just more prevelent here since the guys name and bullets are 3m from your cockpit glass. On or off-line your always gonna have kill-stealers, even the AI are good at it. Stats or no stats you just can't let it get to you.

Jumoschwanz
03-28-2005, 12:41 PM
Yea that is the alleged "disconnect cheat". I have shot down lots of planes and never see the "enemy aircraft destroyed" lately becuase the plane is gone from the server as soon as it is on fire or loses an wing or some other critical part. In the old days the only similiar thing was when someone's monitor went black from a pilot kill and they hit esc and refly before the virtual plane hit the ground. This was a kneejerk response and was not usually intentional.

There are a lot of pilots that do not like it when FBD jerks a map out from under them when the time is up or for some other reason. And the only ones that can't live without the stats it keeps are the ones with screwed up ideals anyway.

I tried to see how good I could do in stats once, and it was interesting in a way, I got up to 7 to 1 K/D ratio. But I said to he!! with it because it is a lot more fun for me to mix it up and shoot or be shot. I flew into a ball of La5fns in my g2 and got shot to pieces, but I had a lot of fun. This makes for a 1 to 1 or worse K/D ratio, but the fun ratio is way up! S!

Jumowschwanz

JG54_Arnie
03-28-2005, 12:48 PM
I"m not so sure if killing the killstealers helps that much, unless everybody starts doing it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It might just piss people off a lot more, but I wouldnt know how people would actually learn to behave on servers.
Most annoying is that people just dont watch eachother at all and only see that one enemy plane. If they would fly high cover they would actually be able to get an easier kill since enemy planes will most likely dive in on the dogfight in progress.

And yes, it might be better if stats just go, its way to easy to just fly for stats alone and not really enjoy the flying anymore, its just kills kills kills.. I get carried away in that sometimes as well and its quite useless, takes the fun away from the game.
Although it is nice to check the stats and build up a number, but it seems that overall they dont do online flying much good.

RAF74_Poker
03-28-2005, 12:50 PM
I don't get it ..... why are you worried about kill stealing if you're not worried about your stats ??

I'll bet I've been thought of as a kill stealer some nights.
I'm new ... but quite frankly I think the object is to eliminate as many enemy from the sky as you can ... I swooped someone's kill the other night because I had more energy and was in a position to get right behind them for a point blank shot - I then typed a quick sorry to the shooter for snaking his "kill"
Then on Sat night I deliberately held my guns to let someone finish the kill and explained so to someone else on TS who said to take the shot.
kinda frustrating to not get that snap shot off that could have helped out our side ... but I had the feeling the pilot chasing the enemy was a "stats" man ... I didn't need the grief.
Quite frankly ... if you're flying w/ me and you have the better shot ... take it, even if it's over my shoulder, just don't hit me! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

triggerhappyfin
03-28-2005, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
After a fight whether a shooter or shootee, use the "GK"(goodkill), or "GF"(goodfight) instead of the S! These are less ambiguous, and less likely to be misconstrued as a "dig".

As for shoulder shooting, recently on greatergreen someone in an La5fn shot over my shoulder while I was firing on an opponent, they then flew in front of me, got hits on my target and got the kill, this after I had been engaged in a DF for quite a while with the opponent.
My solution was to shoot down the shoulder shooter, yes it was a friendly kill and I did not feel bad about it in the least. It was easy as he was two plane lengths in front of me.
Jumoschwanz <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Kill stealing is as bad as team killing.

When somebody steals my kills, which happends if you leave a burning opponent to watch him crash, I follow him and when he goes in for landing and collecting the easy earned points...I go in for crasching in his rear...No teamkilling.. - points for him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

It´s not the stats its the morale of some players online..or lack of http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

They´ll prolly steal candy from kids too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

RAF92_Moser
03-28-2005, 01:16 PM
I don't understand. If a team is dogfighting another, why do you want to fly overhead and watch? Fly in and help him out. I can understand if you tear some guys wing off or he's a barbeque and someone is taking desperate shots at him to award himself a kill. And I don't care really much if someone is shoulder shooting. I feel much better knowing a friendly is on my back, not an enemy. And why should we care about stats? It's not essential to having fun in the game. Why do suppose I got this simulator. To have fun. That's the most important thing to any game. And, please, do not shoot a friendly because he got credit for the kill. In real war, would you shoot down your buddy? I'm sorry, I do disagree with your solution, but can sometimes relate to your frustration.

Atomic_Marten
03-28-2005, 01:21 PM
Guys I'm really pesimistic about this issue. I can clarify my position as well.

After time spent in online games, I have learn one thing: you got to have lot of nerves when playing. That is not because for instance, you happen to be an inferior pilot to yer oppo or because you fly inferior plane, so naturally you got bunch of lead. No, no..

It's because of all bad things that happens on specific server and doesnt have to do anything with flying.

I personally am not longer upset when somebody steal my kill, because it is expected* course of action online.

Whoever of you guys says otherwise, think twice about it. Shoulder shooting? That is just *one* aspect of kill steal (I'd say this may be more innocent one -- I think no one even think of that as kill steal..).

For instance ; burning enemy planes, planes without parts that are spiralling towards earth, pilot-less aircrafts (pilot bailed).. etc etc.

In all this situations you will see, I bet, few guys per server that are regularly attempting to put some lead before the doomed ac reaches earth.

No admin is going to 'fix' that by issuing a ban.. simply because if someone likes to cheat or KS etc. they will always find some new sofisticated way of doing that.

I just wonder if all that is worth my time & nerves http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

asurob11963
03-28-2005, 01:22 PM
again..killstealing...who cares. If Im in a knife fight I welcome it when my team mates come and help me down an enemy fighter. THAT IS THE FREAKING POINT OF AERIAL WAREFARE. All this whinning about killstealing...really chafes my backside.

Hristos
03-28-2005, 01:55 PM
Jumo, remember your own last week advice ?

"...Don't worry about what other people do or don't do, be mature and have fun..."

F19_Orheim
03-28-2005, 02:06 PM
I don't really mind to have my kill stolen, but to be shot down by a wreckless teamplayer p*sses me off. I don't mind not scoring but I mind dying....http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

However, I try to cope with it by acting in a good manner myself trying to inform my teamplayers that I watch their six while they hunt down their target "Get him I'll cover your six". I believe more in setting an example rather than go bezerk and kill the guy who hit me with friendly bullets. Those things tend to escalate......

Oh, there are exceptions, the other day BaldieJr an myself were beeing shot and harrassed by a teamplayer in the Zeke vs Wildcat server, who deliberately was shooting friendlies down. I shot him up in pieces so many times that I got kicked for teamkilling... I am a friendly bastard but not a sainthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-28-2005, 02:21 PM
Standard rule I go by is if the plane is a threat to a wingman or myself it is fair game as far as Im concerned. This happens more often when enemy is over your base. When killing stealing becomes cheap in my opinion is when the pilot is PKd, wingless, motor out, on fire, bailed out, ect. Basically if the plane is limping along and poses no threat to anyone why steal it? A person should not have to spend his entire ammo load on a plane just to be sure nobody is going to take his hard earned kill.

When not to engage is when a wingman clearly has the upperhand on an enemy and most likely is enjoying himself. Why engage and risk a friendly kill? If getting kills is that tuff that one feels they have to snake every kill they get a chance at, then they should find another server that suits thier skill level.

Nothing is more frustrating to me is when I see four wingman chasing an enemy around while two or more enemy chase the last wingman.

Best way to avoid having your kills stolen if it concerns you is to be a better shot. Quicker you dispatch the enemy the less likely someone can kill them for you.

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-28-2005, 02:25 PM
As far as the S!, GK, NS, GF thing goes I really dont care eitehr way. If someone gets me cleanly I will more then happy other up one or the other. But if the same is not returned it concerns me nonetheless. I dont need a pat on the back for every kill I get. If this bothers people so much I suggest you open your chat box, grab the bottom edge with your cursor and drag it all the way up. This way you see no chat and wont be offended because a person did or did not Salute you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif This is silly who started this topic anyway http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

RAF74_Poker
03-28-2005, 02:42 PM
I think I'd better clarify my position as regards kill stealing ... I'll take the shot if the opportunity presents itself .... but once the plane is done, I'm not going to make the effort to get last shot !

I know I've lost "kills" because I've pulled off someone who is obviously not going to be back into the fight.
If they are limping away and obviously not combat effective ... why waste the ammo when there's more targets out there ?

I agree with most of you as regards chasing an obviously downed plane to get last shot ... As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to the points ... I know who really got them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In fact, I don't even know how to look at the stats .... I'm sure mine are dreadful, what ever they are, but hopefully they will improve.
Of the stats that are out there, I'd say the most important would be sorties/death, and probably hit percentage.
more sorties per death means you're surviving, and the higher percentage shots mean you're hitting what you're going after.
Other than that .. who really gives a ****?

VW-IceFire
03-28-2005, 03:04 PM
Worst kinds of pilots out there are:

1) Team killers
2) Kill stealers
3) Shoulder shooters

The rest of behavior can go on as long as those three don't happen. I simply love the guys who wait till you've taken a wing off and blasted a target to bits and then put the final rounds into the target moments before it runs into the ground.

I also laugh very hard when 6 guys, all shooting at the same already out of control, pilot dead, wing missing, target....ram themselves straight into the ground with none of them pulling out.

Jumoschwanz
03-28-2005, 03:34 PM
I did not start this to be a thread on kill stealing, go back and read the beginning. If I cripple and doom a plane and some kiddie shoots at it before it hits the ground that doesnt piss me off so much. There is a big difference between that and shooting over a team mates shoulders at a target they are on.

In the first instance if someone wants to shoot at a plane that is already doomed and flaming that is their buisness and their reputation only.

But in the second instance,Hristo, the screwball IS making it my buisness by endangering me with his shots, not watching out for the foes wingman, and risking a collision. If you are so worried about "scoring for the team", then look at the big picture and find something else to do, that is more efficient and intelligent use of manpower than everyone fighting and competing for a shot at one target right?

Now do you get it Poker? It doesnt matter if you are on a server that keeps stats or not, it is still a stupid inefficient use of manpower, and rude to endanger a teamate and take the fun away he is having and the work he has done up to that point. Look around and cover his back, wait until he needs help or runs out of ammo. Think of something besides yourself.

This might make for more and longer one-on -one battles also, and give more folks opportunity to say, "good fight" and "good kill", because they have just finished a long enjoyable dogfight without some bozo swooping in front of them and blowing the $hit out of their party.
It is tough for us to be honorable and chivalrous 24-7, we are just a bunch of krappy humans, but if we just try, that will put us a cut above right? S!

Jumoschwanz

Capt.LoneRanger
03-28-2005, 04:15 PM
My personal experience is, that many new pilots come from the BF1942-FPShooter. They can fly and shoot with planes there, but don't realize there is a difference between BF1942 and IL2.

It's good to see those people join the online community, as they bring money with them. But on the other hand, more wanna-be-TopGuns also mean some problems with online playing.

IMHO a friendly kill is not the answer, but joining their lines. There are other ways to teach kiddies. I remember a 8-person-server where we had a pilot that shot friend and foe. We all joined the other team and joined up and blasted him out of the sky. I've never seen that guy online again.
Admins also play a very important role on this.

BaldieJr
03-28-2005, 04:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Oh, there are exceptions, the other day BaldieJr an myself were beeing shot and harrassed by a teamplayer in the Zeke vs Wildcat server, who deliberately was shooting friendlies down. I shot him up in pieces so many times that I got kicked for teamkilling... I am a friendly bastard but not a sainthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was funny. I got him a few times, but you totally laid him to waste.

steiner562
03-28-2005, 04:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAF74_Poker:
I don't get it ..... why are you worried about kill stealing if you're not worried about your stats ??

I'll bet I've been thought of as a kill stealer some nights.
I'm new ... but quite frankly I think the object is to eliminate as many enemy from the sky as you can ... I swooped someone's kill the other night because I had more energy and was in a position to get right behind them for a point blank shot - I then typed a quick sorry to the shooter for snaking his "kill"
Then on Sat night I deliberately held my guns to let someone finish the kill and explained so to someone else on TS who said to take the shot.
kinda frustrating to not get that snap shot off that could have helped out our side ... but I had the feeling the pilot chasing the enemy was a "stats" man ... I didn't need the grief.
Quite frankly ... if you're flying w/ me and you have the better shot ... take it, even if it's over my shoulder, just don't hit me! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its not about stealing kils it about the so called team mate shooting rounds into your *** when they should be covering your ***!,you might be new but once you experience this you wil have the same opinion as jumo.

Petey78
03-28-2005, 04:46 PM
I still hold a touch of bitterness towards the guy who tried to ram me when I was firing at an SBD in my Rufe. I'd chipped half of the SBD tailplane off, was out of cannon but still blazing away with MG and *Un-named* virtually put his wing into my cockpit trying to get his rounds to land. Of course, I tried to get the last round or two into the SBD as it spiralled towards the deck, only to be publicly called 'cheap' by the *choose your own insult* who'd nearly rammed me to steal the kill..... I didn't say a word up until that point but then let loose with a round of expletives at *Un-named*. You're right, would have been better just to ignore the SBD and shoot the stealer instead (who then went on to boast to everyone how he'd scored two kills in a Rufe and how great he was)....Grrrrrrr..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

TriggerHappy57
03-28-2005, 05:14 PM
I dont think teamkilling is the answer because it just causes more greif to everyone on the server. Just try to talk to the dude and ask him kindly to try not to attack other peoples targets. Nine out of ten times this will solve the problem, if not, just have the room admin boot him. You never know, he may be new to the game and he doesnt know all the curtisies of online warfare. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

triggerhappyfin
03-29-2005, 01:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asurob11963:
again..killstealing...who cares. If Im in a knife fight I welcome it when my team mates come and help me down an enemy fighter. THAT IS THE FREAKING POINT OF AERIAL WAREFARE. All this whinning about killstealing...really chafes my backside. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don´t try to help me out that way...I´ll crash on your tail http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Watch my six if you wanna help http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tully__
03-29-2005, 05:07 AM
TK'ing the shoulder shooters is no solution. If you can't see the problems with this approach, you need to spend a lot more time thinking about it.

73GIAP_Milan
03-29-2005, 08:01 AM
Well, if one shoots me down which i did'nt even see coming, or in some other way which I think of it was'nt a very fair fight and he stil S!'s me, i think by myself that he'd better stuff that S! up his tailpipe... I only salute ppl after a really good fight and/or when i've downed someone who really did his best to do so..

The Shoulder Shooters, Kill Stealers and Teamkillers are a real pain sometimes and if they get too annoying to my likes i down one of them or atleast tell the guy by chat nicely that he should stop doing it or face the concequences - yes i do warn them ^^

For me it's just having a good time out there and i don't really care if i'm killed a few times over as long as i kill a few myself - fair play, frag and be fragged..
once i get hammered all the time, i simply leave..
I'm not a bad loser, but if i get vulched, or hammered constantly or killed over and over in less then normal ways
- Ramming
- by the UFO-planes
- Due to lagging
- Weird other occasions
I just leave the server, my fun is spoiled by then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

triggerhappyfin
03-29-2005, 08:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
TK'ing the shoulder shooters is no solution. If you can't see the problems with this approach, you need to spend a lot more time thinking about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shoulder shooters usually pop one or too in my wing too...then the solution is to crash my own plane and give him the punishment of - scores http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

The fuel to shoulder shooting and kill stealing is the easy earned points! Take that away and problem solved http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.

Vipez-
03-29-2005, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by triggerhappyfin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
After a fight whether a shooter or shootee, use the "GK"(goodkill), or "GF"(goodfight) instead of the S! These are less ambiguous, and less likely to be misconstrued as a "dig".

As for shoulder shooting, recently on greatergreen someone in an La5fn shot over my shoulder while I was firing on an opponent, they then flew in front of me, got hits on my target and got the kill, this after I had been engaged in a DF for quite a while with the opponent.
My solution was to shoot down the shoulder shooter, yes it was a friendly kill and I did not feel bad about it in the least. It was easy as he was two plane lengths in front of me.
Jumoschwanz <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Kill stealing is as bad as team killing.

When somebody steals my kills, which happends if you leave a burning opponent to watch him crash, I follow him and when he goes in for landing and collecting the easy earned points...I go in for crasching in his rear...No teamkilling.. - points for him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

It´s not the stats its the morale of some players online..or lack of http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

They´ll prolly steal candy from kids too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no offence, but il'l still remember how you stole few of my kills on the UK dedicated.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Not that i care about kills THAT much... but seems like all have done it at some point.

RAF74_Poker
03-29-2005, 09:21 AM
OK, I'm out.

Jumo .. hope to see you online sometime.
We can discuss the finer points of what is acceptable. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh, and:
~S!~ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

triggerhappyfin
03-29-2005, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by triggerhappyfin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
After a fight whether a shooter or shootee, use the "GK"(goodkill), or "GF"(goodfight) instead of the S! These are less ambiguous, and less likely to be misconstrued as a "dig".

As for shoulder shooting, recently on greatergreen someone in an La5fn shot over my shoulder while I was firing on an opponent, they then flew in front of me, got hits on my target and got the kill, this after I had been engaged in a DF for quite a while with the opponent.
My solution was to shoot down the shoulder shooter, yes it was a friendly kill and I did not feel bad about it in the least. It was easy as he was two plane lengths in front of me.
Jumoschwanz <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Kill stealing is as bad as team killing.

When somebody steals my kills, which happends if you leave a burning opponent to watch him crash, I follow him and when he goes in for landing and collecting the easy earned points...I go in for crasching in his rear...No teamkilling.. - points for him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

It´s not the stats its the morale of some players online..or lack of http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

They´ll prolly steal candy from kids too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no offence, but il'l still remember how you stole few of my kills on the UK dedicated.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Not that i care about kills THAT much... but seems like all have done it at some point. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

?????????????????????????? Not possible, never been there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

CAPT_COTTON
03-29-2005, 11:37 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif
I fly on line like i was in the real thing and i want to get back to airfield and get a beer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif brought to me by those lovely girls http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif and get ready for next sorty or fligth. I shoot at planes trying to get back to field when no one is behind them . i will make an angle shot at a plane being chased by buddie to help him and i have on a few times hit my buddie trying to help OOPS! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
i have a warnning message in my pretyped thinky for chat [pull in frt of me and you will find your self dead] http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gifand then ask him to watch it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif and then listin to him tell me i am a team killer. duh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
I dont look for stats and i am low score in game nearly all time and fur balls are gunnery prastice and soooooo much fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Grisha7
03-29-2005, 02:44 PM
Just had at least three players shoot past me while tailing and and scoring hits on an opponent on Warclouds. Pretty angry right now, not just because I lost the kill but because in the following chaos I clipped a friendly barage ballon, lost a wing and got -150 points for my trouble. Then they're patting themselves on the back on chat afterwards. Pathetic. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

JG5_UnKle
03-29-2005, 03:30 PM
Whaaaa? Is someone trying to suggest there is some degree of teamplay on dogfight servers..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Grisha7
03-29-2005, 03:43 PM
I'm not talking about teamplay or teamwork. I try not to get in the way of team-mates and certainly don't pull-up right under someones nose to 'assist' them. I mean, I was boxed in by my own side, had to take evasive and clipped that bloody balloon. I've calmed down now though, realised it's just a game and I'm being silly etc. At the time I was like http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif. Nevermind...

LeadSpitter_
03-29-2005, 04:31 PM
so when we see jumo online shoot over his shoulder and give a S!

-HH-Quazi
03-29-2005, 05:06 PM
I found a solution to this madness. I joined a squadron with m8's that are available to fly at most any time of the day. I get my online fix flying with m8's that will not shoot over your shoulder unless you ask for their help. Sometimes, they are flying as my wing and are lined up for a shot before I can bug out. At least they communicate to tell me which way to bug out so I don't get in their line of sight. And I don't have to put up with kill stealing. That just don't happen unless you invite them down to join in. We watch each others back The only server I have throughly enjoyed and saw the kind of teamwork I see in my squadron was on War Clouds. I was on their server and decided to log onto their TS server. The m8's I was flying with that day was really into teamwork. GreaterGreen is another good one I hear. But in all servers, there will always be a certain amount of shoulder shooting, TK's, and KS's. So, one solution for some you m8's that are getting tired of the same ol' same ol' on your favorite servers? Find a sqaud that flys informally everyday. If you have to, crank up a new group that shares your sentiments and are available to fly daily. I keep our TS server up and when one of us get the itch to fly, we just join the TS server and eventually one or two or three of our other squadm8's will join in. Some days are busier than others. But most of the time, there are three of us flying daily anywhere from early morning to late night. At least I don't get no grief flying with a bunch of m8's that are out for themselves. Just a thought guys. Carry on.

JG54_Arnie
03-30-2005, 12:45 AM
Ah yes, but online flying also has that unknown factor about your enemies, are they skilled or not and such. Makes for interesting situations. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Trying to find a way to improve online dogfighting is in a lot of peoples interest.

Btw, I think an autobalance feature would help as well, as unbalanced sides show a lot more shoulder shooting and crashing into eachother due to the lack of targets sometimes.

Sly401RCAF
03-30-2005, 01:42 AM
The answer to all the problems would be award the kill to the pilot that got critical damage..
take out a control surface, engine hit, any fire, pilot wounded etc..
then see how many pilots swoop in over your shoulder after you bin picking him off, or follow a smoker..
I reckon it would revolutionise team play..
I can remember some really good days way back on CFS1 zone when teams would go all out to cripple "All" the opposing teams planes then finish them off one by one.......... This level of etiquette and team play is in real short supply on HL

Sly