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Wildnoob
11-12-2009, 12:07 PM
Hi!

As far as I know early in the war communication was most made by teletype messanges in bomber aircraft.

Was wondering about the use of voice radio systems as well.

LEBillfish
11-12-2009, 12:09 PM
With what nation's air service and which branch?

K2

Wildnoob
11-12-2009, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
With what nation's air service and which branch?

K2

Speaking in general.

I'd like to know if voice radio was a common feature in WWII bombers.

Thanks since now!

Kettenhunde
11-12-2009, 12:30 PM
I'd like to know if voice radio was a common feature in WWII bombers.

They used both voice and CW in the HF/VHF bands. In general, the Allies had better range and more powerful control systems because of the use of crystals. The precision and power of the crystal sets allowed them to handle more aircraft over a much larger range.

The Germans lacked a source of quality quartz and had to make up for it with technology. They did a good job of it and technically had some very advanced systems. The systems limited their ability to control large elements over a large area.

Daiichidoku
11-12-2009, 12:49 PM
semi-OT;

http://www.airspacemag.com/his...ucky.html?c=y&page=3 (http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Few_Brave_Lucky.html?c=y&page=3)

Before 1916, few pilots unfortunate enough to get themselves into a spin lived to tell of the experience. One pilot who did was surrounded upon landing by others congratulating him on his seemingly fantastic feat. When asked how he did it, he cheerfully replied that he did “everything wrong,” by which he meant he did the opposite of what his experience and intuition as a pilot told him. By mid-1917, enough anecdotes had circulated about pilots recovering from a spinning nose dive by pushing forward on the control stick rather than the natural inclination to pull back that it motivated British commanders to rethink air training. Under the leadership and inspiration of Major Robert Smith-Barry, the School of Special Flying was opened in Gosport, England, in August 1917.

Before Gosport, many pilots completed training while on active service, during which they were expected to fly more powerful, less forgiving aircraft, often with little or no training on transitioning from one type to another (by 1916, the British flew 76 varieties). They had to perform combat maneuvers while under fire and extreme stress. Gosport emphasized aerobatic and combat maneuvers and also adopted a standard aircraft for training: the British-made Avro 504 biplane. By the end of 1917, Smith-Barry also had introduced the Gosport Tube, a system of voice pipes and headphones for communication between instructor and pupil. Though it came too late in the war to benefit many pilots, Gosport revolutionized flight training in Britain, and according to Richard Hawkins in The Irish Sword, a journal of military history, many of the school’s techniques became part of the foundation of knowledge for generations of pilots


DH82a:
upper left is the speaking end of a "Gosport Tube"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/aero/dh82a_gosporttube.jpg

headset with "Gosport Tube" to plug into ins. panel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/aero/gosporttube_headset.jpg


from what i've read, RAF aircrew, when concerned with direction, would say "left-left" for port and "right" for starboard, as the "Gosport Tube" would make "left" OR "right" sound equally as "quack" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Wildnoob
11-12-2009, 12:56 PM
Thanks Kettenhunde!

Guess you solve the doubt about the (western?) allies.

I know IJN bombers used teletype messanges at start of the war.

Thefore like LEBillfish saied, it is necessary to be specific about this subject due to obvious reasons.

Kettenhunde
11-12-2009, 01:01 PM
Thanks Kettenhunde!


You are welcome.

Wildnoob
11-12-2009, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
semi-OT;

http://www.airspacemag.com/his...ucky.html?c=y&page=3 (http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Few_Brave_Lucky.html?c=y&page=3)

Before 1916, few pilots unfortunate enough to get themselves into a spin lived to tell of the experience. One pilot who did was surrounded upon landing by others congratulating him on his seemingly fantastic feat. When asked how he did it, he cheerfully replied that he did “everything wrong,” by which he meant he did the opposite of what his experience and intuition as a pilot told him. By mid-1917, enough anecdotes had circulated about pilots recovering from a spinning nose dive by pushing forward on the control stick rather than the natural inclination to pull back that it motivated British commanders to rethink air training. Under the leadership and inspiration of Major Robert Smith-Barry, the School of Special Flying was opened in Gosport, England, in August 1917.

Before Gosport, many pilots completed training while on active service, during which they were expected to fly more powerful, less forgiving aircraft, often with little or no training on transitioning from one type to another (by 1916, the British flew 76 varieties). They had to perform combat maneuvers while under fire and extreme stress. Gosport emphasized aerobatic and combat maneuvers and also adopted a standard aircraft for training: the British-made Avro 504 biplane. By the end of 1917, Smith-Barry also had introduced the Gosport Tube, a system of voice pipes and headphones for communication between instructor and pupil. Though it came too late in the war to benefit many pilots, Gosport revolutionized flight training in Britain, and according to Richard Hawkins in The Irish Sword, a journal of military history, many of the school’s techniques became part of the foundation of knowledge for generations of pilots


DH82a:
upper left is the speaking end of a "Gosport Tube"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/aero/dh82a_gosporttube.jpg

headset with "Gosport Tube" to plug into ins. panel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/aero/gosporttube_headset.jpg


from what i've read, RAF aircrew, when concerned with direction, would say "left-left" for port and "right" for starboard, as the "Gosport Tube" would make "left" OR "right" sound equally as "quack" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Very interesting stuff, thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2455/tuboc.jpg

This maybe the same sort of device?

By the way, I am curious because in the Zero there's also a similar one, in both sides like the "Val".

RSS-Martin
11-12-2009, 01:49 PM
The German planes had throat mikes, just like in their tanks, right from the beginning.
This means even if it was very load you could talk and hear clearly what is said.

Daiichidoku
11-12-2009, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2455/tuboc.jpg

This maybe the same sort of device?

By the way, I am curious because in the Zero there's also a similar one, in both sides like the "Val".

bear in mind, if it looks like a Gosport Tube in a single seater, who are you going to communicate with? :P
likely you are viewing a "relief tube" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Wildnoob
11-12-2009, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wildnoob:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2455/tuboc.jpg

This maybe the same sort of device?

By the way, I am curious because in the Zero there's also a similar one, in both sides like the "Val".

bear in mind, if it looks like a Gosport Tube in a single seater, who are you going to communicate with? :P
likely you are viewing a "relief tube" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know Daiichidoku. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

It's just curiosity of mine to know what that device does. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wildnoob
11-12-2009, 02:09 PM
Ah, seems to be part of the cockpit lights.

horseback
11-12-2009, 03:16 PM
Allied Bombers which had widely dispersed crew positions usually had an internal intercom system as well as separate radio channels for the pilots and the radio operator. Most large aircraft of the era had a dedicated crewman for operating the radio(s) and later electronic navigation or detection systems.

Internal comms were more like a 'party line' telephone system; everyone could hear the 'phone' all the time, but they didn't 'broadcast' to each other without pressing a mike button.

The LW bomber crews were usually packed together in the cockpit area, and could literally shout in each others' ears for 'personal conversations', but I would expect that they too would have had a similar intercom or possibly a 'sound powered' system similar to that used on ships even today.

cheers

horseback

Kettenhunde
11-12-2009, 03:23 PM
you are viewing a "relief tube"

Don't listen to him....

Speak into it!

Daiichidoku
11-12-2009, 03:44 PM
i have read that some bomber crews (i think it was B36, but could have been B29s, or both) had a "clothesline" setup through the tunnel over bomb bay to convey messages back n forth....