PDA

View Full Version : Actors, hollywood and WWII



XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 04:44 PM
Thought I would share this ...



The Entertainers of 2003 have been in all of the news media lately. It seems that Newspapers, Television and Radio has been more than ready to put them and their message before the public.

I would like to remind you of what the entertainers of 1943 were doing, (60 years ago). Most of these brave men have since passed on.

Alec ******ss (Star Wars) operated a British Royal Navy
landing craft on D-Day.

James Doohan ("Scotty" on Star Trek) SEE BELOW ..


Donald Pleasance (The Great Escape) really was a R.A.F.
pilot who was shot down, held prisoner and tortured by the Germans.

David Niven was a Sandhurst graduate and Lt. Colonel of the British Commandos in Normandy.

James Stewart flew 20 missions as a B-24 pilot in Europe.

Clark Gable (Mega-Movie Star when war broke out) was a
waist gunner flying missions on a B-17 in Europe.

Charlton Heston was an Army Air Corps Sergeant in Kodiak.

Earnest Borgnine was a U.S. Navy Gunners Mate 1935-1945.

Charles Durning was a U.S. Army Ranger at Normandy.

Charles Bronson was a tail gunner in the Army Air Corps.

George C. Scott was a U.S. Marine.

Eddie Albert (Green Acres TV) was awarded a Bronze Star
for his heroic action as a U.S. Naval officer aiding Marines at the horrific battle on the island of Tarawa in the Pacific Nov.1943.

Brian Keith served as a Marine rear gunner in several actions against the Japanese on Rabaul in the Pacific.

Lee Marvin was a marine on Saipan when he was wounded.

John Russell was a Marine on Guadalcanal.

Robert Ryan was a U.S. Marine who served with the
O.S.S. in Yugoslavia.

Tyrone Power (an established movie star when Pearl Harbor was bombed) joined the Marines, was a pilot flying supplies into, and wounded Marines out of Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Audie Murphy, little guy from Texas, most decorated
serviceman of WWII.

I wish I had room to tell you more about Actor Sterling
Hayden and an actor by the name of Peter J. Ortiz (Twelve O'clock High,Rio Grande and The Wings of Eagles), but this would turn into a book.

There is a huge gap between the heroics and patriotism
of the actors in 1943 and the cowardly despicable posturing of the Hollywood crowd of today. Most of them have no education with substance, never held a real job, attended some back street acting school, and now they are self proclaimed experts on everything. And the media cannot wait to interview them on world affairs.



CC




Message Edited on 08/09/03 03:48PM by Coon-Chow

Message Edited on 08/11/0302:01PM by Coon-Chow

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 04:44 PM
Thought I would share this ...



The Entertainers of 2003 have been in all of the news media lately. It seems that Newspapers, Television and Radio has been more than ready to put them and their message before the public.

I would like to remind you of what the entertainers of 1943 were doing, (60 years ago). Most of these brave men have since passed on.

Alec ******ss (Star Wars) operated a British Royal Navy
landing craft on D-Day.

James Doohan ("Scotty" on Star Trek) SEE BELOW ..


Donald Pleasance (The Great Escape) really was a R.A.F.
pilot who was shot down, held prisoner and tortured by the Germans.

David Niven was a Sandhurst graduate and Lt. Colonel of the British Commandos in Normandy.

James Stewart flew 20 missions as a B-24 pilot in Europe.

Clark Gable (Mega-Movie Star when war broke out) was a
waist gunner flying missions on a B-17 in Europe.

Charlton Heston was an Army Air Corps Sergeant in Kodiak.

Earnest Borgnine was a U.S. Navy Gunners Mate 1935-1945.

Charles Durning was a U.S. Army Ranger at Normandy.

Charles Bronson was a tail gunner in the Army Air Corps.

George C. Scott was a U.S. Marine.

Eddie Albert (Green Acres TV) was awarded a Bronze Star
for his heroic action as a U.S. Naval officer aiding Marines at the horrific battle on the island of Tarawa in the Pacific Nov.1943.

Brian Keith served as a Marine rear gunner in several actions against the Japanese on Rabaul in the Pacific.

Lee Marvin was a marine on Saipan when he was wounded.

John Russell was a Marine on Guadalcanal.

Robert Ryan was a U.S. Marine who served with the
O.S.S. in Yugoslavia.

Tyrone Power (an established movie star when Pearl Harbor was bombed) joined the Marines, was a pilot flying supplies into, and wounded Marines out of Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Audie Murphy, little guy from Texas, most decorated
serviceman of WWII.

I wish I had room to tell you more about Actor Sterling
Hayden and an actor by the name of Peter J. Ortiz (Twelve O'clock High,Rio Grande and The Wings of Eagles), but this would turn into a book.

There is a huge gap between the heroics and patriotism
of the actors in 1943 and the cowardly despicable posturing of the Hollywood crowd of today. Most of them have no education with substance, never held a real job, attended some back street acting school, and now they are self proclaimed experts on everything. And the media cannot wait to interview them on world affairs.



CC




Message Edited on 08/09/03 03:48PM by Coon-Chow

Message Edited on 08/11/0302:01PM by Coon-Chow

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 04:54 PM
Very nice post, thanks for this.

<img src="http://www.geocities.com/agrill101/Sig.jpg.txt"

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 05:01 PM
Great post man! A lot of stuff there I didn't know.

S~ RCAF_Trout

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 05:21 PM
You forgot Richard Todd (The Dambusters), he was in the British Para's/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hot Space

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 05:45 PM
Great info. Thanks! I know about many of those people's roles in the war but a few surprised me.

---------------------------------------
http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/109K.jpg


I STILL love my 109!

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:01 PM
Some years ago I saw Eddie Albert interviewed on television about his service at Tarawa. A very impressive gentleman.

I understand Jimmy Stewart was assigned as an assembly plane pilot, and actually had to sneak aboard a combat flight against orders to participate on a bombing mission. Another brave man.

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:12 PM
Coon-Chow wrote:
- Thought I would share this ...

AMEN! One person, I would like to mention, who really does not need any mention, is Bob Hope.. Though he never served in battle... he still SERVED in BATTLE in more ways than one! A true american... a type we dont seem to have left anymore.. All we have are the Kate Hudsons of the world left and it makes me want to puke!


TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:31 PM
Great post but I must offer one correction.

James Doohan (Scotty) was a captain with the Royal Canadian Artillery, NOT the US Army.

He later became a pilot in the Royal Canadian Air Force.

Incidently he had a finger blown off at Normandy which is why you never see his two hands together in Star Trek.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

From his bio:
Doohan was born on March 3, 1920, in Vancouver, British Columbia, and spent his early years in there and in Sarnia, Ontario. Surviving the anguish of living with an alcoholic father, he left home at age 19 to join the Canadian Forces, fighting with the Allies in World War II. After outscoring his fellow soldiers on an officer's exam, he became Captain in the Royal Canadian Artillery. While leading his men into battle on D-Day, Doohan was wounded in the leg and hand, and eventually lost a finger. For the remainder of the war, he became a pilot observer, and received the dubious distinction of being called the "craziest pilot in the Canadian Air Forces."

<center>http://canflag.ptbcanadian.com/images/provincal/small.coat/crest.gif
</center>


Message Edited on 08/09/0310:34AM by Tall_Canuck

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:52 PM
Wrong, General Stewart had a life time military career, both active and reservist, and flew combat missions in more than one war as a command pilot. Including B-52's over Nam.

Some of the others listed there are fabrications though, urban legends./i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:55 PM
After reading this forum (and waiting for the patch) for months without ever needing to say anything, here is my first post:

We should also honor the memory of the legendary film auteur Ed Wood ("Plan 9 From Outer Space"). He was a decorated Marine in the battle of Iwo Jima.

If memory serves, he recieved a at least Silver Star for battlefield heroics. The story goes that by the time he joined the military, Ed Wood had already cultivated his infamous fascination with wearing women's clothing (See his brilliant film "Glen or Glenda?" for more insight). He was wearing a red silk bra and panties underneath his uniform when he stormed the beach. He was deathly afraid of being captured by the Japanese who would no doubt discover his fetish, so he vowed to fight to the death. His ferocity on the battlefield gained him his survival and wartime recognition, as he was one of the few survivors of one of WWII's bloodiest land battles.

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 07:40 PM
Coon-Chow wrote:
- James Doohan ("Scotty" on Star Trek) landed in
- Normandy
- with the U.S. Army on D-Day.

Sorry to be a pedant, but he's Canadian, and
was in the RCAF (artillery forward observation
planes).

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 08:22 PM
was Ronald Reagan not a WW2 hero ?

ok, but a post-war hero /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 08:27 PM
wow didn't know/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
thanx for posting this

<center>

http://users.pandora.be/paco/an2.gif



</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 09:33 PM
http://www.palletmastersworkshop.com/flipside.html
http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/military/actors_in_wwii.html

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 09:43 PM
Great post.... It says it all about the Hollywood types of today,like sean penny, compared to the hollywood greats of yesteryear.

I also want to puke when the media fawns over the likes of that so-called comedienne, garafalo, and that farell guy from MASH.

I'll not even go into the glorification of sports 'role models'....drug abusers, rapists, you name it...

In that regard, here is an article about Ted Williams...


QUOTE:
Ted Williams: A baseball legend, an American hero
By Brent Butler
Sports Editor

Last year, when Ted Williams passed away, sports fans throughout the world were reminded of perhaps the greatest hitter in major-league baseball history.

We were reminded of his amazing 1941 season where he became the last man in history to hit .400 on a season. We were reminded of his 1939 Rookie of the Year Award, his Triple Crown and his MVP award in 1949, but what we were not reminded of was the courage and bravery which he displayed by enlisting in the Naval Air Corps in May of 1942.

After having such an amazing season in 1941, Williams showed his true character by entering the ranks of the military in order to fight for his country during World War II. He never saw combat in WWII-the war in the Pacific ended before he got there, but he never felt bad about his decision to give up three years of his career to serve his country.

"I could never resent the three years I spent in World War II," Williams said according to ESPN.com. "Not that I did anything, but the very fact that everybody was in the service or doing something-never regretted those years. I was proud of those years. I was happy that it happened that way."

Today, when the youth of America look up to its sports heroes, they see athletes like Michael Irving, O.J. Simpson, Randy Moss, Daryl Strawberry and Allen Iverson as their supposed "role models." Unfortunately, America's youth does not have a role model like Ted Williams to look up to in this day and age.

Today's stars like Kobe Bryant and LeBron James didn't go to college in order to continue their athletic careers, but after high school Williams signed with a minor-league team in order to play in his hometown of Sand Diego, Calif. After just a year and a half of playing for the minor leagues, Williams was aquired by the Red Sox in a trade for five players as well as $25,000, and just one year later he was called up to "the big show," the major leagues.

When Williams started his rookie season for the Red Sox he was only 20 years old, but he impressed everyone by batting .327 with 31 home runs and 145 runs batted in in his first season. Those statatistics we good enough to earn Williams the honor of being the 1939 Rookie of the Year.

After his impressive rookie season, Williams continued his dominance of opposing pitchers throughout the 1940 season and on into the 1941 season.

Williams' 1941 season was one that every baseball player dreams of, a slugging percentage of .735 and an overall batting average of .406. During the 1941 season it seemed as if nothing could go wrong for Williams.

"Everything I hit fell in. Every break that I could get I got," Williams said according to Tedwilliams.com.

Throughout the season, Williams was at record-setting pace, hitting well over .400 for the majority of the season, until the last few weeks of play in the regular season.

"It was the first time it worried me whether I was going to hit .400 or not, because the papers were writing it up," Williams said according to Tedwilliams.com.

Going into the final day of the regular season, the last day satistics would be counted, Williams was posted at .3996 batting average for the season.

After the first game of the doubleheader Williams proved that he was one of the greatest hitters in history by going six for eight on the day, safely securing a .406 batting average on the year.

This was the last time in major-league history that a player has obtained a .400 batting average on the year, which is an amzing feat to accomplish. One would think that after such an amazing year, nothing could stop an athlete of this caliber, but after this great season Williams decided to support his country instead of his team the following year.

When the World War II started, Williams enlisted in the Naval Air Corporations, while he didn't see action before the war in the Pacific was over, he still gained valuble experience which helped him in his futur military career.

During the Korean War he served again, flying as John Glenn's wingman in an F-9. He flew 39 missions in the war, and survived after being hit by anti-aircraft fire and being forced to crash land. The next day, Williams was back in the air.

Williams lost almost five full seasons serving his country in both Korea and World War II. Many other athletes served in the two wars but Williams

has truly become the prime example of the American sports war hero.

UNQUOTE

And: Joe Louis (versus Mike Tyson, rapist and all-around thug)


QUOTE:
T/SGT JOE LOUIS
Joe Louis (Barrow) was inducted into the U.S. Army on Jan. 14, 1942 at
Camp Upton, N.Y..... going
overseas to Europe on Mar. 30, 1944. He served with the Special Services
Division for 14 months and entertained more than 2,000,000 soldiers by
his frequent boxing exhibitions and talks. For his "incalculable contribution
to the general morale," he was awarded the Legion of Merit.
Sgt. Louis returned to the U.S. on Oct. 10, 1944 and was assigned to duty
both in Canada and Alaska. Following the end of the war, he was
discharged at Camp Shanks, N.Y. on Oct. 1, 1945.

UNQUOTE










<center>Wiley</center><center><font color="#FF0000";font size="3pt">Click HERE to visit Wiley'sWWIIGunCameraWorld (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/)</center>
<center>http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/IwoJimatiny2.gif (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SandsOne.WMV) </center>
<center><font size ="2pt">Click Flag-Raising for the Full-Size(4.2Mb) Version</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 10:15 PM
I absolutely agree.

The most despicable names that could go on the list have been left out:

Ronald Reagan, whose most fantastic WW2 exploits were something he saw on TV.

Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose contributions to encouraging unjust wars over the years need no further mention.

Sylvestor Stallone, another chickenhawk whose historical revisionism has resulted in a generation of moviegoers who are somehow under the impression that the US won the vietnam war. The hilarity that is "Rambo 3" after recent events in Afghanistan again needs no elaboration.

Any others?

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 12:15 AM
Let's not forget Senator Kemp who skipped serving in Vietnam because of a bad knee. He went on to become a professional football quarterback.

And George W. Bush Jr. the press is always fawning over that one. The guy who flew jets over the Mexican border during Vietnam but then went AWOL because he didn't want to have to pass a drug test.

<img src=http://www.simops.com/graphics/wildcard.gif>

IRON SKIES
As real as you want it to be.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 12:37 AM
Don't forget Jack Palance, he was a TBF pilot in the Pacific and his face was badly burned in combat...

S!

F/O Llancalot - 51? Stormo - 155? Gruppo - European Air Force

<img src=http://space.virgilio.it/llancalot@tin.it/immagini/banner.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 03:52 AM
clint-ruin wrote:
- I absolutely agree.
-
- The most despicable names that could go on the list
- have been left out:
-
- Ronald Reagan, whose most fantastic WW2 exploits
- were something he saw on TV.
-
- Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose contributions to
- encouraging unjust wars over the years need no
- further mention.
-
- Sylvestor Stallone, another chickenhawk whose
- historical revisionism has resulted in a generation
- of moviegoers who are somehow under the impression
- that the US won the vietnam war. The hilarity that
- is "Rambo 3" after recent events in Afghanistan
- again needs no elaboration.
-
- Any others?
-
-
-

If your going to spout BS at least get it accurate. Schwartzenagger servered in the Austrian Armored Corp as a tank crewman on the border of the Soviet Empire, a bit young, so missed the big one./i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif He done his share.

Reagan was a bit to old for the infantry, but did serve in the AAC and reached the rank of Captain doing what he knew best, public affairs. Again done what he could.


Stalone, well, one out of three correct ain't all that bad. He fled the US and hung out in Europe for a while to escape service time.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 04:10 AM
Would have been a nice post illustrating the contribution of those actor if you hadn't tainted it with your political agenda.

I'm sure you can find a right winger website somewhere.

Nic

http://nicolas10.freeservers.com/images/et.jpg


OK I -->[]

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 04:23 AM
clint-ruin wrote:
- I absolutely agree.
-
- The most despicable names that could go on the list
- have been left out:
-
- Ronald Reagan, whose most fantastic WW2 exploits
- were something he saw on TV.
-
- Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose contributions to
- encouraging unjust wars over the years need no
- further mention.
-
- Sylvestor Stallone, another chickenhawk whose
- historical revisionism has resulted in a generation
- of moviegoers who are somehow under the impression
- that the US won the vietnam war. The hilarity that
- is "Rambo 3" after recent events in Afghanistan
- again needs no elaboration.
-
- Any others?
-
-
-
http://www.goobage.com/pics/goof/Troll.jpg

-



<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Visit RatFinks Screaming Pile of Sin and Confusion</font></font size> (http://www.goobage.com/forum.php)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 04:26 AM
nicolas10 wrote:
- Would have been a nice post illustrating the
- contribution of those actor if you hadn't tainted it
- with your political agenda.
-
- I'm sure you can find a right winger website
- somewhere.
-
- Nic


WHAT?

<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Visit RatFinks Screaming Pile of Sin and Confusion</font></font size> (http://www.goobage.com/forum.php)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 04:34 AM
BfHeFwMe wrote:

- If your going to spout BS at least get it accurate.
- Schwartzenagger servered in the Austrian Armored
- Corp as a tank crewman on the border of the Soviet
- Empire,


austrian /soviet border ? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 04:49 AM
clint-ruin wrote:
- I absolutely agree.
-
- The most despicable names that could go on the list
- have been left out:
-
- Ronald Reagan, whose most fantastic WW2 exploits
- were something he saw on TV.
-
- The hilarity ...
- after recent events in Afghanistan
- again needs no elaboration.
-


Where are you from, sonny?? Despicable is the term that fits those who would have been Still under the Yoke of dictatorial Communism were it not for Ronald Reagan, but would refuse to acknowledge what he did for them. Or those who had no strength to stand up against Communism in its many forms.

Remeber this:" Tear down this wall, Mr. Gorbachev!!! "

I can only assume, therefore, that you are either a teenager from Berkely,California.... or French.

<center>Wiley</center><center><font color="#FF0000";font size="3pt">Click HERE to visit Wiley'sWWIIGunCameraWorld (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/)</center>
<center>http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/IwoJimatiny2.gif (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SandsOne.WMV) </center>
<center><font size ="2pt">Click Flag-Raising for the Full-Size(4.2Mb) Version</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 05:16 AM
I'd have to say without going too much off into Pilots lounge that 90% of americans today, including the american leader, and a far cry from patriots.

America now is about the worldcom and enron takers, and no longer about the givers.

George Bush Sr. has a silver star, and fought in the pacific, his son is no more than a drunken cheater on college exams, a fixer of elections, and a caterer the the crimimally retarted which seem to encompass 90% of the United States' population (i.e. anyone who voted for him).

lil'

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 05:30 AM
RCAF_lilseed wrote:
- I'd have to say without going too much off into
- Pilots lounge that 90% of americans today, including
- the american leader, and a far cry from patriots.
-
- America now is about the worldcom and enron takers,
- and no longer about the givers.
-
- George Bush Sr. has a silver star, and fought in the
- pacific, his son is no more than a drunken cheater
- on college exams, a fixer of elections, and a
- caterer the the crimimally retarted which seem to
- encompass 90% of the United States' population (i.e.
- anyone who voted for him).
-
- lil'
-
-


Quoted so that I can inform the Mod that you are an idiot.


<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Visit RatFinks Screaming Pile of Sin and Confusion</font></font size> (http://www.goobage.com/forum.php)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 05:41 AM
First off, it seems the only troll here is the one who started this cockamamie right wing thread to begin with.
Secondly, it wasn't 90% of the Americans who voted for Bush. He didn't even get a majority.

<img src=http://www.simops.com/graphics/wildcard.gif>

IRON SKIES
As real as you want it to be.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 05:45 AM
- RCAF_lilseed wrote:
- George Bush Sr. has a silver star, and fought in the
- pacific, his son is no more than a drunken cheater
- on college exams, a fixer of elections, and a
- caterer the the crimimally retarted which seem to
- encompass 90% of the United States' population (i.e.
- anyone who voted for him).
-
- lil'
-

I can't vote cause I am only 14, but the "majority" of Americans did "NOT" vote for Mr. Bush. Mr. Bush won the electoral college vote which gave him the Presidency according to the rules of the American democracy.

If Mr. Gore eould have won his home state of Tennesse, then what happened in Florida with the other Mr. Bush and the chards would not have been an issue. Why bash a whole country? That does not seem to make sense even to me as a teenager. I hope you don't always lump people together like that, cause that's totally uncool dude.

http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/1asigh1.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 05:52 AM
Pentallion wrote:
- First off, it seems the only troll here is the one
- who started this cockamamie right wing thread to
- begin with.
- Secondly, it wasn't 90% of the Americans who voted
- for Bush. He didn't even get a majority.
-


Who the hell are you people, when was this forum invaded by the Ghey.

<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Visit RatFinks Screaming Pile of Sin and Confusion</font></font size> (http://www.goobage.com/forum.php)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 06:45 AM
...and then the right wingers began name calling again...

<img src=http://www.simops.com/graphics/wildcard.gif>

IRON SKIES
As real as you want it to be.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 07:01 AM
Pentallion wrote:
- ...and then the right wingers began name calling
- again...
-


-Author: Pentallion
-Rank: Over 400 Postings
-Date: 08/09/03 08:41PM

Pentallion wrote:
- First off, it seems the only troll here is the one
- who started this cockamamie right wing thread to
- begin with.
- Secondly, it wasn't 90% of the Americans who voted
- for Bush. He didn't even get a majority.
-


-Author: TurboCrotch
-Rank: Over 1000 Postings
-Date: 08/09/03 08:52PM

TurboCrotch wrote:
- Who the hell are you people, when was this forum
- invaded by the Ghey.
-

<font size=5><font color=red>Maybe should should look at the time on those 2 posts, and then tell me again who was first.</font>

<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Visit RatFinks Screaming Pile of Sin and Confusion</font></font size> (http://www.goobage.com/forum.php)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 07:19 AM
OberstWiley wrote:
-- I can only assume, therefore, that you are either
- a teenager from Berkely,California.... or French.
-
-


What have the French to do in this?????

<Center>



http://www.wingman-fr.net/fzg/forum/images/smiles/sm167.gif

1.5/10 Troll Rating from USAFHelos
(but working on it /i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif - Woot! 7.25 points awarded make 8.75/10)

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 08:03 AM
NN_Veverka wrote:
-
-
- What have the French to do in this?????
-


Don't act so Innocent there Squirrel boy, everyone knows this is all your fault. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://www.goobage.com/pics/smilies/1luvu.gif


<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Visit RatFinks Screaming Pile of Sin and Confusion</font></font size> (http://www.goobage.com/forum.php)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 08:12 AM
Saying the original poster was trolling is a legitimate observation and not name calling. After all, the Pilots Lounge is closed and this is an obvious political thread he started here.

Here's a perfect definition of troll over in Oleg's Ready Room:

Trolling as in fishing or casting a net by starting a forum thread with the goal of inciting other forum members into an argument using inflammatory comments or misinformation.

However, calling someone Ghey, whatever the heck that is, is name-calling.

<img src=http://www.simops.com/graphics/wildcard.gif>

IRON SKIES
As real as you want it to be.

Message Edited on 08/10/0312:16AM by Pentallion

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 10:48 AM
Whoa, there, Clint.

I'm no great fan of many of Ronald Reagan's policies, but the man DID serve, and did his duty as his country asked of him.

His service as President should also count. Take a look at history and see that several of them have ended up dead as a result of holding that office. Reagan himself, if you remember, took a bullet and responded with considerable bravery.

The fact that you disagree with someone does not make them the devil, and it does not make them cowards. It's much better to treat your enemies with honor and with honesty.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:10 AM
Who would have thought so many self-righteous liberals infested the IL-2 boards?

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0yn9h/notpostcount.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:25 AM
Pentallion wrote:
- Let's not forget Senator Kemp who skipped serving in
- Vietnam [...]

Hats off to the likes of John McCain, Al Gore, and John
Kerry who did serve (and John Kerry was twice decorated
for bravery). Not that I think the Vietnam war was
necessarily a just war, but it is a testament to their
bravery that they were in harm's way.

Post-vietnam most wars involving the USA have been
rather short, so there wouldn't be the opportunity to
sign up and join (nor the compulsion to as there was
during WW2) in. Vietnam wasn't a war with great popular
support. Many sons of the great and good found ways to
avoid serving, and many ordinary people also managed
to get deferments, and then again some did serve.

It's not accurate to say that
Clinton tried to avoid the draft, though. He got a
deferment to go to Oxford, and the war ended before
his draft block came up, but in theory it was possible
he could have gone. Ditto the current President had
his unit been retrained on current front line service
types and dispatched.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:26 AM
Another one: Leslie Howard, the nice posh guy who played as "Ashley Wilkes" in "Gone with the wind", was a british secret agent during WWII, and died in 1943, when his plane was shot down over the Gulf of Biscay.


- Dux Corvan -

"It doesn't matter how good you are: In a crowded dogfight even the most experienced ace can be downed by a rookie; so, surviving an air war is just a matter of luck. However, an agressive attitude is the only one that gives you a chance to live, for runners are generally chased to death."
(Captain Lacalle, ace of the Republican Air Force during the Spanish Civil War.)

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:30 AM
RCAF_lilseed wrote:
- George Bush Sr. has a silver star,

Hats off to him. He certainly did his bit. You
have to be pretty hard core to fly a big bomber
with only ONE engine.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:39 AM
Here's a good one: Julia Child served as an intelligence agent in occupied France. Talk about French cooking!

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:46 AM
Guess what? Hollywood was just as notoriously left-wing in the 1940s as it is today. Read Irvin Shaw's The Young Lions for some interesting insight into the interaction between Hollywood and the war.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 01:27 PM
Several people have evidently never heard of such incidents as:

Reagan simply making up stories on the spot, such as one regarding a CMOH recipient he told to an audience of 300 _actual_ CMOH recipients. Or passing off what he had seen on movie of the week as his service record.

Nevermind, you weren't the only ones asleep during his presidency.

As for whether disagreeing with someone makes them the devil - I don't think that at all. Funnelling money to El Salvadorian death squads, _that_ makes someone the devil. In fact I'd be quite confident in that just by itself being enough to send someones eternal soul into the pit of red hot lava up the backside, but that's far from the only thing Reagan and his puppetmasters managed to pull off.

Hollywood was made a little less left wing by things such as Reagan loyally selling out anyone he didn't like as a commie to HUAC. I get the impression quite a few people are nostaligic for the time when simply being left wing or a socialist was enough to send someones career into the toilet. Indeed, thread is thread is really little more than some kind of throwback to handing a white feather to anyone not gullible enough to sign on for whatever war was on that decade.

Still - as Henry Rollins said - the best thing about being alive today is that you get to see Ronald Reagan die a slow and unpleasant death.

As for self righteous liberals, you must've skipped the bit back on page 1 where people were accusing anyone who didn't sign on for the occupation of Iraq as some kind of traitor. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make them the devil, you know.

Oh - and I too look immensely forward to finding out more about what exactly Arnie and his dad were getting up to in Austria, back in the day.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 04:31 PM
I am shocked indeed to find that Reagan was not the latest incarnation of Jesus Christ, or perhaps the 12th avatar of the Buddha. Perhaps your own life is without stain, Clint, but the hatred that positively drips from your posts makes me think it's not so.

I was a keen (and critical) observer of the Reagan years, but I am also a student of history. Guess what: No leader is perfect. No president who ever sat in office has hands that are entirely clean. The nature of the world simply will not permit it. Perhaps our "nicest" president, Carter, was also one of the least effective in office. That is not an accident.

Is this a blank check for any person in power to do whatever they like? of course not. But the world is a complex and dangerous place, and and a leader's options and intentions must, in fairness, be taken into account. You make it seem that these things were done wantonly, and that is simply untrue.

When you think about it, Reagan killed far fewer people than Truman, or even Lincoln.

The point is, sometimes bad things are done for good reasons. That's the way it is. Reagan saw the world in terms of the Cold War, a limited vision to be sure, but the man wasn't evil. Spend your hate on something more worth hating.

Cheers.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 05:10 PM
TurboCrotch wrote:
- NN_Veverka wrote:
--
--
-- What have the French to do in this?????
--
-
-
- Don't act so Innocent there Squirrel boy, everyone
- knows this is all your fault.

We have finally taken over Hollywood?

Cool, finally a chance to make more decent movies/i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

<Center>



http://www.wingman-fr.net/fzg/forum/images/smiles/sm167.gif

1.5/10 Troll Rating from USAFHelos
(but working on it /i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif - Woot! 7.25 points awarded make 8.75/10)



Message Edited on 08/10/0312:10PM by NN_Veverka

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 06:59 PM
I don't know quite how you're able somehow brush off selling arms to iranian terrorists in order to finance a south american dictatorships campaign of rape, torture and murder of hundreds of thousands of people, as some kind of loving paternalistic act by a grizzled cold warrior.

I'm not sure I want to know, either.

Reagans history at HUAC is a matter of public record. Reagans interactions with iranian terrorists are unfortunately not public record, thanks to the current US administrations decision to block the release of just about every record of note of that period. It would certainly be interesting to know.

The foreign policy of the USA has differed only by minor degrees in the post WW2 period. It makes little difference to me whether it's Fords support of Soeharto, Carters support of the Khmer Rouge, Reagans support of Saddam Hussein, Bush supporting Noreiga or Clinton wantonly sending cruise missiles into civilian targets. I could care less who you regard as having been a nice guy or a good carpenter or a womanizer.

What annoys me the most - you might even go so far as to call it hate - is not necessarily just that Reagan, Bush, Putin, Stalin, Churchill, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, and the rest do the things that they do. In many cases these kinds of people are actually insane or at least mentally deficient in some critical way. It's that even when they're revealed as utterly bloodthirsty into the megadeath range, people are somehow able to rationalise these things as acceptable.

It's almost like a german citizen of a certain era repeating to themselves that Hitler's really an OK guy, he knows what he's doing, everything will be ok, to drown out the sounds of the forced march and the crematorium door.

You make me quite ill.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 08:08 PM
Well said Clint.

Funny how this thread hasn't been locked yet.

<img src=http://www.simops.com/graphics/wildcard.gif>

IRON SKIES
As real as you want it to be.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 08:08 PM
clint-ruin wrote:
- Blah-Blah-Blah


HAHA! I figured it out, you're Zack De La Rocha. Your music sux.

<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Visit RatFinks Screaming Pile of Sin and Confusion</font></font size> (http://www.goobage.com/forum.php)</center>




Message Edited on 08/10/0311:20AM by TurboCrotch

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 08:18 PM
Before you start blasting someone who "got out" of military service because of sports injuries, consider that the military won't take someone who's had knee surgery (They haven't quite caught up with the arthroscopic surgery statistics yet). It's not like he blew out a knee so he wouldn't have to serve. Kemp's a twit, but he didn't bail out on serving his country; the military wouldn't take him under any conditions with that medical history.

I'm the oldest of three sons of an Air Force career man, in a family where everyone serves, if they can. We've done it since we came to America in the 1850's, and every generation has served. My youngest brother and I have a combined 18 years in the Navy, but the middle brother, who is no less bright or fit, had a skiing accident when he was 18 (some idiot ran over the back of his skis), and when he tried to enlist, the Navy just flat out rejected him(incidentally, at age 48, he still bicycles to work most days). Does this make him less qualified to express a political opinion about whether we should go to war?

As for the cracks about Ronald Reagan, try to remember that he was already in his late thirties when the US entered the war, and he did serve where they let him, training films and news/propaganda stuff. He was realistic about his value as a combatant compared to his value as a recognizable, experienced actor/communicator. He did spend the war in the Army, at some expense to his film career.

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" - LCOL Don Blakeslee, CO, 4th FG, March, 1944

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 09:57 PM
Clint, self-righteousness is no substitute for policy. I specifically said I had real problems with the Reagan administration, including some of the stuff you mentioned. But there's a difference between being wrong and being evil or mentally deranged. Churchill? Come on.

Do you really think any nation can use a moral litmus test to choose its allies? Should the US NOT have helped the Soviet Union against Hitler because Stalin was a murderer of gigantic proportions? Would the result have been better?

The world just isn't that simple...but apparently you are.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 10:00 PM
Oh, dear...I've just insulted someone. Well, counter-insulted someone, actually.

That's what happens when threads like this one don't get locked promptly!

Apologies to the more well-mannered out there.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 10:06 PM
time for a little correction.

Jimmy Stewart flew alright, he flew B17s over europe. Got decorated for it as well. Retired from the Us air force reserve a brigader general, iirc.

Now as far as clark Gable and the war effort is concerned, the only thing he seems to have done in the air corps of the time, was make training films. Not much else comes to mind.

I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 10:52 PM
WW2 Q&A, Quax

Who was fond of using poison gas to get rid of the troublesome darkies?

Who was fond of contiuing WW2 after the fall of the Axis powers?

Who was all for the large scale bombing of civilian targets?

Who had a lifelong struggle with mental illness?

Who liked to use armed troops against striking workers?

Various people qualify for all of the above, but the guy I have in mind is Churchill.

Any serious study of history at a post feudal level reveals that similar characters tend to rise to power in any given human society. What tends to limit them is their ability to effect change, not their desires to effect change. By any honest standard, world leadership in the 1930s was of similar moral character - none of them were a particularly enlightened or noble bunch. Dear lord, if you have a problem with Reagan, I can only say that if you ever seriously looked into the ambitions of most of the worlds leaders 70 years ago your head would spin off from the torque.

This is looking like turning into a very tired argument about the nature of good, and frankly I have far more enlightened company to conduct that sort of conversation with than the population of a WW2 flightsim message board. Feel free to PM me about it, but unless you're up on your Kant and Clausewitz you might want to read up first.

You might also want to brush up on the timeline of Stalins mass murdering vs the other allies rending assistance to the soviets. Events in India and the Philipines might not have left the UK and USA in a very strong position of moral superiority even if you regarded Stalins first military purges as the ultimate evil, so I'm not sure what your argument is there, exactly.

At the moment you and several other posters here are displaying a palpable lack of knowledge of psychology, world history, ethics, and strategy, I imagine that the 'eurotrolls' too polite to encourage such an idiotic flamewar must be rolling on the floor at some of the comments people have chipped in so far.

Juxtaposing your indignant question as to whether the US should have let NAZI controlled Germany exterminate the Soviets, next to noting your concern over Reagans support of ARENA in El Salvador, is just priceless. Oh god, someone get this man a clue.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:02 PM
I am up on Kant and Clausewitz, and Aristotle and Nietzsche, and on, and on... So stop waving your credentials as a pseudo-intellectual. Knowledge is not the same as wisdom, sonny.

And from where i sit, you seem to have had way too much Kant and not enough Clausewitz.

If you had read your philosophy carefully and critically, you would have learned that NONE of us has all the moral answers, except, perhaps...you.

How wonderful it must be to look down on all of history and make moral judgements on men who faced problems the rest of us never have.

Get back to your books, child. You haven't read enough yet.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:17 PM
So basically, what you're saying is that if you were president:

You want money for a black op. Congress denies you money to fund said black op.

To get the money, you'd sell weapons to Al Queda, who you knew would use them to kill US troops.

You then take the money from Al Queda and use that for your black op, which is, incidentally, propping up a literally Neo Nazi run totalitarian government that rapes and tortures any and all political opposition.

And that after you had done this, you should be applauded for having the balls to make the tough decisions.

Obviously I was wrong about my idea that people with ambitions of power are at times little bit sick in the head. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:40 PM
They all did their bit back then, they where a Generation on a Mission, a band of brothers.
(sorry to sound like the Movie series promotion)
They fought for a World where ordinary decent people could live in peace, or so they thought.

Their intentions where noble and good, even if things did not work out that way in the long run, they all did their bit back then anyway.

Since WW II there has just been a succesion of Wars and it never ends, there is always some hot spot for armed conflict or the atrocities of mans in humanity to man, to this very day.

We even play act at killing each other Online here, my goodness, and promote it to our children, human nature indeed.

S!



Message Edited on 08/10/0310:41PM by Artic_Wulf

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:48 PM
its not wwii but james garner(jim rockford from the rockford files)fought in korea and recieved the purple heart.Not just one hell of an actor but a war hero also,Has a bad knee as a result.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 01:57 AM
Coon-Chow wrote:
- Thought I would share this ...
-
-
-
- The Entertainers of 2003 have been in all of the
- news media lately. It seems that Newspapers,
- Television and Radio has been more than ready to put
- them and their message before the public.
-
- I would like to remind you of what the entertainers
- of 1943 were doing, (60 years ago). Most of these
- brave men have since passed on.
-
- Alec ******ss (Star Wars) operated a British Royal
- Navy
- landing craft on D-Day.
-
- James Doohan ("Scotty" on Star Trek) landed in
- Normandy
- with the U.S. Army on D-Day.
-
- Donald Pleasance (The Great Escape) really was a
- R.A.F.
- pilot who was shot down, held prisoner and tortured
- by the Germans.
-
- David Niven was a Sandhurst graduate and Lt. Colonel
- of the British Commandos in Normandy.
-
- James Stewart flew 20 missions as a B-24 pilot in
- Europe.
-
- Clark Gable (Mega-Movie Star when war broke out) was
- a
- waist gunner flying missions on a B-17 in Europe.
-
- Charlton Heston was an Army Air Corps Sergeant in
- Kodiak.
-
- Earnest Borgnine was a U.S. Navy Gunners Mate
- 1935-1945.
-
- Charles Durning was a U.S. Army Ranger at Normandy.
-
- Charles Bronson was a tail gunner in the Army Air
- Corps.
-
- George C. Scott was a U.S. Marine.
-
- Eddie Albert (Green Acres TV) was awarded a Bronze
- Star
- for his heroic action as a U.S. Naval officer aiding
- Marines at the horrific battle on the island of
- Tarawa in the Pacific Nov.1943.
-
- Brian Keith served as a Marine rear gunner in
- several actions against the Japanese on Rabaul in
- the Pacific.
-
- Lee Marvin was a marine on Saipan when he was
- wounded.
-
- John Russell was a Marine on Guadalcanal.
-
- Robert Ryan was a U.S. Marine who served with the
- O.S.S. in Yugoslavia.
-
- Tyrone Power (an established movie star when Pearl
- Harbor was bombed) joined the Marines, was a pilot
- flying supplies into, and wounded Marines out of Iwo
- Jima and Okinawa.
-
- Captain Kangaroo ... Bob Keeshan, was a decorated
- war hero, serving alongside Ed McMahon ..
-
-
- Audie Murphy, little guy from Texas, most decorated
- serviceman of WWII.
-
- I wish I had room to tell you more about Actor
- Sterling
- Hayden and an actor by the name of Peter J. Ortiz
- (Twelve O'clock High,Rio Grande and The Wings of
- Eagles), but this would turn into a book.
-
- There is a huge gap between the heroics and
- patriotism
- of the actors in 1943 and the cowardly despicable
- posturing of the Hollywood crowd of today. Most of
- them have no education with substance, never held a
- real job, attended some back street acting school,
- and now they are self proclaimed experts on
- everything. And the media cannot wait to interview
- them on world affairs.


I didnt read the whole post but dont forget Fred "Mr. Rogers" Rogers...who was an ace with over five kills to his credit. I dont remember the squadron he flew with.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 02:15 AM
RCAF_lilseed wrote:
- I'd have to say without going too much off into
- Pilots lounge that 90% of americans today, including
- the american leader, and a far cry from patriots.
-
- America now is about the worldcom and enron takers,
- and no longer about the givers.
-
- George Bush Sr. has a silver star, and fought in the
- pacific, his son is no more than a drunken cheater
- on college exams, a fixer of elections, and a
- caterer the the crimimally retarted which seem to
- encompass 90% of the United States' population (i.e.
- anyone who voted for him).
-
- lil'

Well it is nice to see this input from someone as astute as yourself who actually knows 90% of Americans. You have no clue as to what you are talking about and you surely don't know about American politics. Open your eyes bub...the WHOLE WORLD is taking a big screwing with sandpaper covered, solid steele ******s so dont think you are immune. Wake up and smell the coffee. All over the world the middle class or whats left of it (wherever there actually WAS a middle class) is being decimated and the rest of the world is suffering just like always. The entire world is caught up in some pipe dream or other and being led down the road to destruction and self anhilation. Many of us just dont "get it". We think we are doing well...or at least better than those kids with the flies on thier eyes and the distended bellies. The world is a ghetto my friend and America is no exception. You can talk about GW all you want to but there is NO politician anywhere who can change things or make them better for any of us. I know you are doing swell up north there RCAF_lilseed......right?

You can talk about America all you want but I can say with utter conviction that no nation in the history of the world has wielded as much power as America and abused it as little. Contrary to what some may think this nation is populated and led by fragile,flawed men...men who lie, cheat,steal,kill and do all the things men have been doing for centuries..however we are NOT a monolith. We dont all think with one mind..we are not a "melting pot"..more like a stew with each ingredient retaining its own identitly....some a piece of beef, some carrots,some potatoes etc. Anybody with half a brain can look at the world in which we live and even if they cant agree with what it is...we all know that "something" is up. People get ready...theres a train a comin........

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

Message Edited on 08/11/0306:27AM by Bearcat99

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 02:51 AM
I really don't see how any of this belongs in this forum. A list of the famous who also served in various air forces is on topic but anything else (including the political innuendo accompanying the original post) isn't going to do anything but cause fights. Now all of you, go to your rooms and play FB and leave the forum to the adults :-P

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:08 AM
Bearcat speaks the truth.

<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Visit RatFinks Screaming Pile of Sin and Confusion</font></font size> (http://www.goobage.com/forum.php)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:12 AM
Bearcat99 wrote:
-
-
- I didnt read the whole post but dont forget Fred
- "Mr. Rogers" Rogers...who was an ace with over five
- kills to his credit. I dont remember the squadron he
- flew with.
-
-

Must have been a H*ll of an exceptionally talented fighter pilot. Fred Rogers was born in 1928...he would have been 17 when WWII Ended! And I don't find any reference to an Ace named Fred Rogers. Sorry.


Where DO this Myths originate??!!
...and does ANYone check their facts before whipping off a post on these forums?

Just curious.

<center>Wiley</center><center><font color="#FF0000";font size="3pt">Click HERE to visit Wiley'sWWIIGunCameraWorld (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/)</center>
<center>http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/IwoJimatiny2.gif (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SandsOne.WMV) </center>
<center><font size ="2pt">Click Flag-Raising for the Full-Size(4.2Mb) Version</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:44 AM
http://www.who2.com/fredrogers.html

He never served.

Bob Keeshan joined the Marines in 1945, but never saw action. In fact, he was in TV from 1947 to 85. So he never won any medal at all.

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/K/htmlK/keeshanbob/keeshanbob.htm

Message Edited on 08/11/03 03:56AM by Iris47

Message Edited on 08/11/0303:56AM by Iris47

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:30 AM
OberstWiley wrote:
-
- Must have been a H*ll of an exceptionally
- talented fighter pilot. Fred Rogers was born in
- 1928...he would have been 17 when WWII Ended! And I
- don't find any reference to an Ace named Fred
- Rogers. Sorry.
- Where DO this Myths originate??!!
- ...and does ANYone check their facts before
- whipping off a post on these forums?
- Just curious.

Hmmmmmm... since I thought it was indeed a fact, since I read it more than once over a period of several years from different sources I stand corrected............
just to ease your curiosity..


<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 01:16 PM
Whole lot of whining and attacking, too bad you don't have the nerve to spout any of your magical solutions.



clint-ruin wrote:
- So basically, what you're saying is that if you were
- president:
-
- You want money for a black op. Congress denies you
- money to fund said black op.
-
- To get the money, you'd sell weapons to Al Queda,
- who you knew would use them to kill US troops.
-
- You then take the money from Al Queda and use that
- for your black op, which is, incidentally, propping
- up a literally Neo Nazi run totalitarian government
- that rapes and tortures any and all political
- opposition.
-
- And that after you had done this, you should be
- applauded for having the balls to make the tough
- decisions.
-
- Obviously I was wrong about my idea that people with
- ambitions of power are at times little bit sick in
- the head. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
-
-
-
-

So who'd you start out killing first?

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 01:54 PM
Pentallion wrote:
- Saying the original poster was trolling is a
- legitimate observation and not name calling. After
- all, the Pilots Lounge is closed and this is an
- obvious political thread he started here.


Asspipe ... I posted it because hollywood makes me sick, read it and move on

cc

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 02:04 PM
My daughter a childhood actress doing commercials, and little bit parts mostly for fun brought me into the acting world as a parent.

When I would take her to auditions it would be after school and we only had a few hours for the auditions. The people auditioning the kids would move them through pretty fast knowing they wouldn't have much talent to draw upon, if they ignored the kids schedules. Let's face it going to school was more important.

I remember so many times we'd go in for auditions after school, and the same adult guys and gals that had been sitting in the waiting area for days would still be sitting there waiting their turn to audition. These people had been sitting in the waiting room for days, morning until night, waiting for an audition.

My daughter may have had to have three or four little auditions before the part would be awarded. Frequently we had to go back several times. We did go back after school when I could take her, which took a few hours each day.

The point is what kind of person is it...that will sit for days, making no money, getting nothing done. What kind of person will just sit for days to audition for a part. Any person with any motivation would get up and get to work at something and get on with his/her life. I think ego and the desire for fame must really motivate some people, possibly because they've got nothing else.

It's easy to form opinions after several years of listening to their mundane jibberish and egotiscal banter in the waiting rooms, and seeing them day after day. You knew they'd been there all day, each day. What a drag to someone like me who was trying to run a business, and help with my daughter's schedule as well.

I conclude from seeing hundreds of these aspiring actors that they are just bums, near-do-wells, and muscle-heads. Anyone stupid, lazy, and such a time waster certainly couldn't contribute anything to viable conversation or issues of importance.

When the news media asks the opinions of actors they'd do well to interview my little dog, especially regarding anything of importance or substance. Actors aren't qualified, they don't even speak their own words...they read scripts and act them out.

When we watch television, we're wasting out time...just watchin' a bunch of actors make a living. LOL

--------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 03:12 PM
Lets not forget the grand champion of all hollywood oxygen thieves ...

I edited this because apparently much was fabricated ... what was NOT was the fact that she was there .. I din't care if she was informed or not .. still a traitor !


This woman should have been executed for high treason somewhere back in the 70's, it really is too bad many do not understand what she was all about.

She actually could still be tried for treason, as it carries no time statute, there is a group that annually rallies to ignite the movement to do just that.


Burn in hell Jane ! BURN, BURN, BURN !!!!

CC





Message Edited on 08/11/03 02:13PM by Coon-Chow

Message Edited on 08/11/0302:50PM by Coon-Chow

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 03:12 PM
BfHeFwMe:

Whole lot of whining and attacking, too bad you don't have the nerve to spout any of your magical solutions.

This is an interesting response to that post.

I'd have to say my magical solution to Iran Contra would be along the lines of the following:

Require minutes and or recordings to be independantly taken of all government business, rather than the quite insane business of literally running foreign policy out of a washington basement in a smokey room.

For the people responsible for the utterly unbelievable lapses that occured during this period to be criminally charged in a court similar to that established for 'unlawful combatants'. It's established policy that terrorists and their suppliers deserve no protection under the US constitution, and certainly, military officers and administration personel who were selling arms to terrorists for the explicit purpose of killing US soldiers qualify.

Require some measure of public accountability for US foreign policy. If, for example, it's a foreign policy goal that all non-government organisations of any kind [church groups, political parties, etc] are to be broken up by brutal force, then that matter is to become open to public debate. I'm not kidding about brutal force - we're talking about things along the lines of women being raped to death, wombs ripped out and plastered over their faces, mens genitals being torn off with pliers, 'retribution' actions against entire villages, etc. This is now all reasonably well documented stuff, and you'll find similar things if you look into say, the "humane" Carters Task Force 80 in Cambodia.

Remove direct presidental control over military actions. If congress explictly disapproves of a course of foreign policy, it is not the prerogative of the executive branch to finance that action via black market arms and drug sales.

That's a short list, but to go further I'd need to know more specifics about what you're asking for. Assuming, that is, that you have the slightest idea about US involvement in central america and middle east asia, and aren't just following some kind of Free Republic Guide To Flummoxing Lefties.

Best of luck.

- So who'd you start out killing first?

It's not a matter of so much who I'd start out killing, it's more a matter of who I'd cease funding or supplying.

As a PS, most of the people sentenced for offences under Reagan were pardoned by Bush Snr, and are now running a lot of the foreign policy of Bush Jnr. Treason isn't all that bad, at least, if you know the right people.

Quax46 wrote, earlier:
His service as President should also count. Take a look at history and see that several of them have ended up dead as a result of holding that office. Reagan himself, if you remember, took a bullet and responded with considerable bravery.

I'd reserve far greater admiration for people working for church organisations, human rights groups, unions, pro democracy groups, or medical groups like doctors without borders, etc, around the world. Those who take amazing risks without so much as a gun or a bulletproof vest to defend themselves. Comparing bravery like that to a man in control of the worlds most powerful military, the FBI, CIA, and NSA watching his back, as well as a large group of secret service agents to whisk him to safety, somehow doesn't do it for me.

I'd love to see you post more of your Clausewitz and Nietzsche based views on world, truly I would, but getting your basic supporting facts incorrect, then calling me a pseudointellectual, without advancing any other line of argument, is pretty pathetic.

Good luck to you as well, kind sir.



Message Edited on 08/11/0302:24PM by clint-ruin

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 03:22 PM
Coon-Chow wrote:
- Lets not forget the grand champion of all hollywood
- oxygen thieves ...
-
- Reprinted ..
-

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.htm

While it agrees on some of the basic facts - Fonda was at the very least incredibly naive about what the NVA were doing, and allowing them to continue torturing captured US personel, it has this to say about a the emotional gut punch of those rumours:

The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above -- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtively given her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese and that several POWs were beaten to death as a result -- are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatory e-mail categorically deny the events they supposedly were part of.

"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."

The tale about a defiant serviceman who spit at Jane Fonda and is severely beaten as a result is often attributed to Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll. He has repeatedly stated on the record that it did not originate with him.

The story about a POW forced to kneel on rocky ground while holding a piece of steel rebar in his outstretched arms is true, though. That account comes from Michael Benge, a civilian advisor captured by the Viet Cong in 1968 and held as a POW for 5 years. His original statement, titled "Shame on Jane," was published in April by the Advocacy and Intelligence Network for POWs and MIAs.

The unknown author of the "Hanoi Jane" e-mail appears to have picked up Benge's story on-line and combined it with fabricated tales to create the forwarded text. Some versions now circulate with Benge's name listed; others quote his statement anonymously.



Also, before you print the next great Fonda chain e-mail:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/fonda.asp


Thread title would more accurately be called 'urban legends, hollywood and WWII' by this point.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 03:31 PM
Beatcat, TurboCrotch and those others who replied to my admittedly angry thread.

- I'd have to say without going too much off into
- Pilots lounge that 90% of americans PUBLIC FIGURES today, including
- the american leader, are a far cry from patriots.
-
- America now is about the worldcom and enron takers,
- and no longer about the givers.
-
- George Bush Sr. has a silver star, and fought in the
- pacific, his son is no more than a drunken cheater
- on college exams, a fixer of elections, and a
- caterer the the crimimally retarted which seem to
- encompass 90% of the United States' population (i.e.
- anyone who voted for him).
-
- lil'


To further my original thread, without taking into consideration all the other posts that pointed me out to be wrong.

My point was this: The don't make 'em like they used to. i.e. honorable men and women. I utterly am against Bush Jr, and his policies (though they are mostly a continuation of those before him, Clinton included), and though his popularity is dwindling, it's a long time coming. (Hence my overgeneralization re: the population) I being an american citizen as well can say that the last sentence in my post was ill-written. I'm just a little bit PSSD off at the state of the world right now, and since the U.S. is the leading power in the world, they carry a greater responsiblity for this. Bush Jr. is an absolute ******, and I have to say that it's better to have a ****** (Chretian) who is not a warmonger than one who is.

Again, I apologize for anyone who I may have insulted with my post, I didn't mean any harm. I got a little carried away and let my disdain towards Dubya fall on the shoulders of those who he oversees.

No more from me on this subject.

lil'

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 03:41 PM
Hey, Clint!

I never said my own views were based on
Clausewitz and Nietzsche. I never endorsed any of the actions for which you have attacked Reagan or others. You have a disturbing and intellectually dishonest way of mischaracterizing others' arguments and creating straw men instead of listening to the points being made.

You responded to my very limited post suggesting that Reagan did his duty in world war 2 and exhibited some measure of bravery as President with an attack on the man over totally different events. Know what an ad hominim argument is, my philosophical genius?

I am pretty sure Kant would have flunked you out of his class for your unprincipled and cowardly disregard for logic and intellectual fairness.

My final word to you, sir.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:22 PM
- You responded to my very limited post suggesting
- that Reagan did his duty in world war 2 and
- exhibited some measure of bravery as President with
- an attack on the man over totally different events.
- Know what an ad hominim argument is, my
- philosophical genius?

I was simply comparing his 'bravery' with that of many of the groups and people who, for one reason or other, got in his way.

Ad Hominem attacks have nothing to do with it and I wonder if you even know what the term means. Certainly you yourself are hardly above the level. In fact you made a fairly obnoxious post suggesting that I get back to the books, called me names, and then utterly failed to back this up with anything other than some vague opinion that mass murder is OK, really, if you happen to agree with the ends. That it's tough on the world power elite to go to the bother of deciding which peoples are to be massacred next. This is, what prompted me to say that your line of reasoning makes me quite ill in the first place.

Still, nothing from you at all resembling an argument. Just name calling and insinuations about my inexperience. I keep inviting you to actually say what you think makes aiding mass murder excusable or somehow unworthy of a sentence to hell, if there is such a thing. Let's see it. Genius. Incidentally, the reason I gathered you were more from the Nietzsche and Clausewitz school of thought was that you seem to be fine with total war as noone is worthy of any kind of moral judgement, so essentially, the dead are basically fuel for the fire and acceptable losses. It doesn't matter what the Great Leaders decisions escalate to, as it's all of no moral consequence. If that's not the point of what you had to say, please, go back and quote your messages to show me where I went wrong.

I could care less whether Kant would chuck a blackboard eraser at me or not, though, just so you know. I'm not some randroid who doesn't believe in altruism, just that it's not something that ever really occurs to the kind of person who's powerhungry enough to rise to the top.

I first posted that Reagans best memories of WW2 were things that he saw on television years later. You then said that he displayed bravery in .. getting shot by a ricochet and being pushed into a car. I then said that the bravery of Reagan, with his security apparatus, is considerably less than that of other people who do work with people trying to kill them with no protection at all - groups I picked out as they were but some of the kinds of people Reagan just didn't feel were worthy of being left alive.

To be honest with you, given that you're yet to really articulate anything beyond some nebulous concept of original sin and its relation to moral judgement, I can't blame you much for backing out. Thanks for playing, but I did mention the odds before. Don't be mad.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:38 PM
Why isn't this thread locked yet? It is completely off-topic and will do nothing to foster community. I have my own opinions about what has been said here but have the decency to keep them to myself as this is not the place for them.



It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Yes, I'm talking to you.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:40 PM
The Vietnam war was strictly political. The VC were offloading Sams in Hanoi harbor and if American aircraft struck the sites they'd have been courts martialed. Them's facts.

The Michelin tire company had large rubber plantations in Vietnam, and they were off limits for strikes as well. The VC would just hide out on the plantations and carry on their guerrilla warfare.

The war was a quagmire of political favors and crap that cost the lives of 50,000 Americans.

The dissenters and draft dodgers were leaving the USA, and after it was all over can't say I think they were wrong. Look at Bill Clinton he became President...

One of the worst things that happened after the Vietnam war was that Jimmie Carter forgave all the dissenters and draft dodgers that fled the country and told them to come home and he'd guarantee them a job, even within the government they refused to uphold. What a crock. The final result was the undermining and demoralizing effects this had on Vietnam vets.

A terrible thing to fight and die for a country whose people and politicians didn't give a darn for the lives of it's fighting forces. Who were the "REAL TRAITORS"? Jane Fonda, was just takin' heat for all the politicians that were tweakin' the war for their own reasons. She and the the politicians were all traitors to America, and especially the men that fought and died in VietNam. The American news media undermined any thoughts of embracing the Vietnam vets for their sacrifice. A complete "Sellout of the American Fighting Forces"

When you walk down the Vietnam Memorial wall, in Washington, D.C. you should be persuaded to take care before engaging in any war efforts for America. Especially, knowing that all those great guys died for such sad reasonings. It should be called the "WALL OF SHAME" of the American Politicians and the apathy of the America people.

---------------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:42 PM
Clint,

I have been following your arguments for the past few days and have now accumulated a sufficient impression to suggest that you might yourself benefit from a bit of critical self examination. Your ardent complaints regarding "ad hominem" attacks bely your own artful use of the very same tactic.



Blutarski

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:53 PM
nearmiss wrote:
- The dissenters and draft dodgers were leaving the
- USA, and after it was all over can't say I think
- they were wrong. Look at Bill Clinton he became
- President...

Clinton didn't dodge the draft. He was
still eligible for the draft. His draft block
was not called up.

The_Blue_Devil
08-11-2003, 04:55 PM
I see people talking aout their personal feelings/opinions..how did they end up in this post in the first place? If anything the only responses to this post should have been additions to the list and or corrections. This is why posts get locked. People always adding their 2 cents about something political.



<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:58 PM
- Clint,
-
- I have been following your arguments for the past
- few days and have now accumulated a sufficient
- impression to suggest that you might yourself
- benefit from a bit of critical self examination.
- Your ardent complaints regarding "ad hominem"
- attacks bely your own artful use of the very same
- tactic.
-
-

Oh I agree, but it's such fun, and I try not to hit back unless I'm hit first.

The special blend of herbs and spices, ignorance, arrogance, stupidity and hypocrisy, the breathtaking aroma of power worship and soiled socks. It's fun to get visceral with those kinds of people. Like being placed in a room full of singing purple barneys and being handed a crowbar.

You know how it is.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:58 PM
*munch munch* Darn... out of popcorn /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 05:07 PM
Coon-Chow wrote:
- Asspipe ... I posted it because hollywood makes me
- sick, read it and move on

Nobody cares if hollywood makes you sick. This is not the place for it. Go to hollywoodhalfwits.com and enjoy the forum. It's full of people like you and you'll be able to pat eachother on the back spouting crap at hollywood, but also at democrats, socialists, communits, french, europeans, ragheads and so on.

Have fun.

Nic

http://nicolas10.freeservers.com/images/et.jpg


OK I -->[]