PDA

View Full Version : IL2 - The Leading Edge



ZK-DABLIN
07-02-2005, 04:49 AM
IL2 - The Leading Edge

I have just recently installed the latest patch to this seemingly exponential flight simulator. As it was downloading I made a point to read the forum on this website and surprisingly found a devided opinion about the improvement of IL-2.

The major change is the FM. Some people like it, some people don't. Some consider it closer to realism others arguing the point whether it should anyway.

Someone, I can't remember now, made a point that as a computer based game its realism is too directed to a true aircraft furthering it from the very device which gives it life... the computer.

This does make a point doesn't it? As a computer based simulator, people can debate all issues of realism until the end of time; true realism can only exist in the worlds only true reality.

Many believe IL-2 should remain true to history, accuracy and realism entitled; and I will give Oleg a pat on his back for such a marvelous effort on this. He has pushed the evelope of flight simulation so far within the computer community it's having everyone heads spin uncontrollaby in vertigo.

This realism does seem taxing on many, especially those new to the game. Some see it as only a game and try to treat it as such. They jump straight in; the manual probably still in the bottom of the box - head straight into the skys and wonder why the first turn led them into a more intimate relationship with the ground.

Their next step is usually to blame the game for their loss whilst forgetting the true realism of IL-2 and the skill and devotion it truely requires. It does though have numorous options to cater the realism of the simulation to the player allowing even new-comers to IL-2 a chance to meet their true potential. It does though require dedication eitherway.

I immediately became aware of the change the new FM brought to IL-2 and found it not so daunting to tell the truth. The precence of torque within the the aircraft brings a new element to the simulation which really only requires careful opposition with rudder and trim to keep in check.

I actually found a new sense of stability when exiting turns especially vertically out of a dive. The use of power seems now more then ever to help drive the aircraft out of the turn much like a car powering out of a corner. This was precent previously but like the torque seems more pronounced atleast by my observation.

What really blew me away was the clouds and the ground detail. After installing the patch I am not sure whether or not new graphics were provided with the patch or whether greater support for my graphics card was now precent but the graphics even still on their previous settings seem greatly improved and much more enticing to look at.

With the new cloud effects which seems to have alot more depth and better transparency the whole look of IL-2 is so detailed; someone I know from a distance misinterpreted it as a WW2 colour video recording (though only briefly).

IL-2 has evoloved into something much greater then a game and I can only say that this is only due to the dedication and devotion from Oleg and his team ... and ofcourse all those within the IL-2 community which supported it.

We all take IL-2 and its numourous FREE patches and updates for granted, forgetting that the IL-2 production team have remained true to the integrity of IL-2 and not allowed money and anything else commercial dictate the path IL-2 followed through-out its development.

We can call all complain abouts IL-2s forthcomings, all the features that are supposiblty missing, the airplanes, bridges, FM etc. without taking into account IL-2 is not a static object; money orientated by-product of commercialism but a virtual reality devised by great artists and mathmeticians ofwhich we were so gratefully allowed to become a part of.

IL-2 is all their hard work and dreams combined together into a masterpiece which none before it have ever succeeded in creating. This masterpeice is still being drawn and who knows how large and how detail IL-2 is going to become - so what right do we have to pick it to peices and only find the imperfections which exist whilst forgetting the many great things we have been given already from IL-2.

No computer simulation will ever meet the true potential and experience provided by true reality and should never be expected to.

To fly an aircraft is to sit in the cockpit with the personal computer stll firmly sitting flat on the ground.

Take IL-2 for what it is, and enjoy what you have. Oleg has given us a gift we can all enjoy. We must try to forget what we can never have from any computer program no matter how complex, overpowered and mind-blowing it becomes.

IL-2 will always grow and get better, it is our reponsibility to take it as it comes and respect the new experiences it provides and mostly of all, try to relate to the historic reality it is trying to simulate and remember the poor souls who sacrificed their lives in the real world, in real aeroplanes with no "RE FLY" button to fall back on when "the **** really hit the fan!".

And just as importantly lets all hope their sacrifice does not become in vain and that we ourselves do not repeat the past and have to experience the terror and waste they were all doomed to live and die through.

Bravo Oleg - Keep up the good work!

pacettid
07-02-2005, 04:55 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

joeap
07-02-2005, 07:08 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifWell written.

Bearcat99
07-02-2005, 08:25 AM
Great post........ and I concur 101%

VF-3Thunderboy
07-02-2005, 11:56 AM
This does make a point doesn't it? As a computer based simulator, people can debate all issues of realism until the end of time; true realism can only exist in the worlds only true reality.



Not true at all.Within the computer you have a 3 dimentional environment. You have visual refrences, say to a runway, aircraft carrier, bomber group, etc...How fast and at what angle you approach the runway,etc....How fast you can climb, what happens to an engine if you dont do proper things. All these elements can be simulated to be as realistic as possible to real world scenarios. If your airplane climbs at 2000 ft per minute, or 3000 ft per minute, it will make a huge difference. The early P-38s had elevator issues, so a verticle dive could be deadly, over a certain speed. This can be put into the computer.If it stalls at a certain AOA, that can be simuated... etc.. What happens when a bullet hits? Tons of gun camera footage available out there.....

Then, look at a WW2 flight manual. WW2 pilots were often flight engineers, with tons of schooling behind them. Its no simple task to deal with a"runaway propellor, " and the like, of which has yet to be modeled...These were the most complicated machines of the day to handle. They are still the top prop aircraft.

The addition of torque is a HUGE issue...We were told it "couldnt be done"- Ha
The REALISM gets bumped up, and a few more pilots leave...The more complex it gets, the more elite of a sim it becomes...

The most important thing learned here is:
We all know Ill 2/PF is an open source simulator. Anything can be done with it, as long as it gets the OK by Oleg. The GOOD news is that he obviously wants to be the top flight simulator. That means NACCA airfoils, and real weather, etc....

It also means that he should allow the people to donate their computer know-how in a larger aspect for programing. He could get alot of free comp time to make alot of the improvements....

Got Torque?

Yup... took 4 years, but got it...!

Tallyho1961
07-02-2005, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by ZK-DABLIN:
IL2 - The Leading Edge

I have just recently installed the latest patch to this seemingly exponential flight simulator. As it was downloading I made a point to read the forum on this website and surprisingly found a devided opinion about the improvement of IL-2.

The major change is the FM. Some people like it, some people don't. Some consider it closer to realism others arguing the point whether it should anyway.

Someone, I can't remember now, made a point that as a computer based game its realism is too directed to a true aircraft furthering it from the very device which gives it life... the computer.

This does make a point doesn't it? As a computer based simulator, people can debate all issues of realism until the end of time; true realism can only exist in the worlds only true reality.

Many believe IL-2 should remain true to history, accuracy and realism entitled; and I will give Oleg a pat on his back for such a marvelous effort on this. He has pushed the evelope of flight simulation so far within the computer community it's having everyone heads spin uncontrollaby in vertigo.

This realism does seem taxing on many, especially those new to the game. Some see it as only a game and try to treat it as such. They jump straight in; the manual probably still in the bottom of the box - head straight into the skys and wonder why the first turn led them into a more intimate relationship with the ground.

Their next step is usually to blame the game for their loss whilst forgetting the true realism of IL-2 and the skill and devotion it truely requires. It does though have numorous options to cater the realism of the simulation to the player allowing even new-comers to IL-2 a chance to meet their true potential. It does though require dedication eitherway.

I immediately became aware of the change the new FM brought to IL-2 and found it not so daunting to tell the truth. The precence of torque within the the aircraft brings a new element to the simulation which really only requires careful opposition with rudder and trim to keep in check.

I actually found a new sense of stability when exiting turns especially vertically out of a dive. The use of power seems now more then ever to help drive the aircraft out of the turn much like a car powering out of a corner. This was precent previously but like the torque seems more pronounced atleast by my observation.

What really blew me away was the clouds and the ground detail. After installing the patch I am not sure whether or not new graphics were provided with the patch or whether greater support for my graphics card was now precent but the graphics even still on their previous settings seem greatly improved and much more enticing to look at.

With the new cloud effects which seems to have alot more depth and better transparency the whole look of IL-2 is so detailed; someone I know from a distance misinterpreted it as a WW2 colour video recording (though only briefly).

IL-2 has evoloved into something much greater then a game and I can only say that this is only due to the dedication and devotion from Oleg and his team ... and ofcourse all those within the IL-2 community which supported it.

We all take IL-2 and its numourous FREE patches and updates for granted, forgetting that the IL-2 production team have remained true to the integrity of IL-2 and not allowed money and anything else commercial dictate the path IL-2 followed through-out its development.

We can call all complain abouts IL-2s forthcomings, all the features that are supposiblty missing, the airplanes, bridges, FM etc. without taking into account IL-2 is not a static object; money orientated by-product of commercialism but a virtual reality devised by great artists and mathmeticians ofwhich we were so gratefully allowed to become a part of.

IL-2 is all their hard work and dreams combined together into a masterpiece which none before it have ever succeeded in creating. This masterpeice is still being drawn and who knows how large and how detail IL-2 is going to become - so what right do we have to pick it to peices and only find the imperfections which exist whilst forgetting the many great things we have been given already from IL-2.

No computer simulation will ever meet the true potential and experience provided by true reality and should never be expected to.

To fly an aircraft is to sit in the cockpit with the personal computer stll firmly sitting flat on the ground.

Take IL-2 for what it is, and enjoy what you have. Oleg has given us a gift we can all enjoy. We must try to forget what we can never have from any computer program no matter how complex, overpowered and mind-blowing it becomes.

IL-2 will always grow and get better, it is our reponsibility to take it as it comes and respect the new experiences it provides and mostly of all, try to relate to the historic reality it is trying to simulate and remember the poor souls who sacrificed their lives in the real world, in real aeroplanes with no "RE FLY" button to fall back on when "the **** really hit the fan!".

And just as importantly lets all hope their sacrifice does not become in vain and that we ourselves do not repeat the past and have to experience the terror and waste they were all doomed to live and die through.

Bravo Oleg - Keep up the good work!

Well-said. I concur with all of it. Nice to have you on-board ZK-Dablin.

VW-IceFire
07-02-2005, 04:16 PM
Well said...breath of fresh air http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Definately some elements that blend the simulation and the hardcore with computer based playability have to be made. More work on the sound engine I think can give us all sorts of auditory clues that WWII pilots would feel rather than hear (wheels touching the ground, slipstream, wings bending, etc.).

As much as the new FM introduces all sorts of added challeng...new pilots CAN turn it off. Its not that hard to do (its in the options control panel all nicey layed out). So learning curve is as easy or hard as someone wants to make it.

Hairball_1
07-03-2005, 02:25 AM
This realism does seem taxing on many, especially those new to the game. Some see it as only a game and try to treat it as such. They jump straight in; the manual probably still in the bottom of the box - head straight into the skys and wonder why the first turn led them into a more intimate relationship with the ground.

Their next step is usually to blame the game for their loss whilst forgetting the true realism of IL-2 and the skill and devotion it truely requires. It does though have numorous options to cater the realism of the simulation to the player allowing even new-comers to IL-2 a chance to meet their true potential. It does though require dedication eitherway.
Isn't this really a whole lot of speculation? Have we seen many posts admitting to hating the game after one attempt, without ever having read the manual? Do any of us here really think Oleg and crew should cater to this lowest common denomiator? Or should they continue to go down the road that has made this the finest WW2 flight sim?

To put it bluntly, I say screw the folks who really do ditch the game because it's too hard. Flight sims obviously aren't their cup of tea.

actionhank1786
07-03-2005, 02:43 AM
I enjoy this post!

Weather_Man
07-03-2005, 07:35 AM
What got me hooked on this game was my shockingly inept ability to takeoff without crashing the first several times I tried many years ago. I thought, "Ahh, this is not your average arcade shootem up!" And that is indeed a good thing. The satisfaction gained from your first successful takeoff, your first successful combat kill, your first survived mission sortie with an ugly, bumpy, but intact, landing -- all these thrills and sense of accomplishment cannot be matched by any other game ever made. All of these skills, thrills and inevitable spills can only be attributed to the superb realism and devotion to accuracy the Il2 series, and Oleg, has implemented in the models and gameplay.

I feel any other shortcoming this game has, and there are a few, are simply overwhelmed by the things done good and not worth mentioning in a broad description of this game. What I've never understood is how some people prefer to focus on the minutia while totally disregarding the whole package for what it is. A masterful piece of game engineering.

EPP_Gibbs
07-03-2005, 06:23 PM
Hear hear. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Old_Canuck
07-03-2005, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by EPP_Gibbs:
Hear hear. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

True true. I believe most of the detractor's posts can be summed up in two words: "private agendas."

Some want the FMs to favor their favorite ride, some are simply trolls, some (as the author of this thread said so well) didn't bother to read the manual or practice long enough to give the sim a fair chance ... and on and on but still -- private agendas.

ZK-DABLIN
07-06-2005, 02:43 AM
Hmm... despite IL-2s inability to completely please all who stumble across it, those who do give IL-2 a chance will find a lot more then could ever be found on a million CD's.

Like Weather_Man, what I too found enticing and very addictive was the slap in the face IL-2 gave to my unprepared mind.

Before IL-2 I had never played a WW2-Fighter Simulation of any kind. Strike Commander, TFX and Falcon 4 were the only flight simulators I ever played (fire and forget became a long distant memory).

I found take-offs extremely challenging and landings mostly impossible bar the occasional crash landing I managed to survive.

Also, the A.I. was stripping me blind in the air all over the place, my gunnery skills were really bad and the common low-speed stall or spin stole any ability I had to challenge the enemy.

Totally agitating but so ... so "Hell No! I wont accept this". IL-2 has this amazing ability to provoke me into bettering myself so I can experience the best flight combat simulation I have EVER played to more extreme levels. Never had I known the many aspects of dogfighting,... BFM, Aircraft Maneovoring, Energy Management, Gunnery and too a degree navigation.

I know IL-2 is not totally realisitic, but regardless this game gives all an inherant ability to test ourselves and experience the reality of many lives past. This experience gives me better understanding and greater respect for all those who experienced it for real no matter from which side of the war.

IL-2 is more then a game. It challenges and educates, it brings enemys close and helps us remember all those pilots lost in battle in the real ... and surreal virtual reality of IL-2!

Aero_Shodanjo
07-06-2005, 03:30 AM
Made a gentle turn toward the runway @ 400m alt, 2-3 km away (approx). Speed 220km/h IAS. Flaps full down.

[What's the prop pitch setting?]
100%, checked.

[Mixture? Radiator flaps?]
120%, full open, checked.

Gear down.

[She's drifting left, rudder trim?]
Corrected, checked.

1km, 300m alt, 200km/h IAS.

[VSI? She's descending too fast]
Elevator trim corrected, checked.

[Hold steady the stick, level the wing]
Doing the best I can. D*mn torque.

[Pull back, bring her nose up a bit]
Done, checked.

[She's vibrating too much. Speed?]
180km/h IAS. Checked.

[Be careful not to stall her]
I know. Im sweating here. Checked.

Touchdown.

The sounds of tires screeching, the slight and smooth bumps when the landing gears met the runway... All is fine, almost.

[Flaps up, tailwheel locked?]
Done, double checked.

Then as the nose started to rise, a moment later there's another slight bump when the tailwheel touched the ground.

[Brake slowly, brake slowly!]

100, 80, 50, 40, 20km/h and stop.

After that, I feel soo much relieved. I leaned back on my seat and feel my heartbeat started to get back to normal again.

[Phewww...]

That was my first successful landing from inside the cockpit some months ago but even now, I still crashed on landing occassionaly. Needless to say that I still feel the same tension everytime I try to land and I always feel exhausted after each successful mission (that is, back to the base in one piece) in a campaign that I flew.

Realistic? I dont know. Never flew a real a/c in my life. Immersive? Totally. Never been such a sim demanded my full concentration like this.

Thank you, Oleg and co http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

TooCooL34
07-06-2005, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by VF-3Thunderboy:
The most important thing learned here is:
We all know Ill 2/PF is an open source simulator. Anything can be done with it, as long as it gets the OK by Oleg. The GOOD news is that he obviously wants to be the top flight simulator. That means NACCA airfoils, and real weather, etc....

It also means that he should allow the people to donate their computer know-how in a larger aspect for programing. He could get alot of free comp time to make alot of the improvements....

Arrrgggghh.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif would you post it again after Oleg announces he officially abandon his product? That won't be too late. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif