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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:44 AM
Perfect ... exactly like it must be ..

Thks .

http://ibelgique.ifrance.com/jabo/FWREDNUAGE.jpg

Cdt Groupe Jabo http://membres.lycos.fr/jabos/STARTT.HTM

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:44 AM
Perfect ... exactly like it must be ..

Thks .

http://ibelgique.ifrance.com/jabo/FWREDNUAGE.jpg

Cdt Groupe Jabo http://membres.lycos.fr/jabos/STARTT.HTM

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:58 AM
Finaly it seems like a real FW !!!!!

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:07 AM
I fully agree, beautiful job.

Correct boom and zoom manoeuvers and energy flying are now really possible!

Thanks a lot, Oleg /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:17 AM
My first impression is that the FW190 is now the best a/c in the game. Bring on that Ta152 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Time to change my sig, halleluja, thank you Oleg.

"Ich bin ein Würgerwhiner no longer"

Message Edited on 08/13/03 09:18AM by JZG_Kaiser

Message Edited on 08/13/0309:20AM by JZG_Kaiser

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:40 AM
Iam on the same boat , FW190 model now seems to match historical documents better than ever.

High speed movement is really good as it should be, acceleration, diving and zoom climbing seem to be good too. I havent had time to fly exclusively FW190 but after couple flights it seems more accurate now.

Thanks for getting FW190 the way it was ment to be flyed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Atleast this compensates for the visibility , now your able to quickly check where the enemy is, since elevators are very fast in high speeds /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:44 AM
The best, perhaps, but nevertheless not a noob plane, it still has to be flown correctly. Don't stay in a dogfight and most important, learn to fire your weapons always at full speed with deflection. Never slow down your 190 to stay in the six of a bandit like you could do in a t&b fighter. Never do that in a 190 and you will be safe!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:59 AM
but the bar, THE BARRRRR!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 10:54 AM
jurinko wrote:
- but the bar, THE BARRRRR!!!
-----------------------------


Hehehe ! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

That "FW-190 gunsight association thread" is going down !
Anyone wants to bump it up ???


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 12:19 PM
yes, the flight model of the fw190 seem much better than before...

it is really a pleasure to fly one, as i don't have anymore the feeling that i'm struggling with it...



for the bar, can i suggest with pass it to the jugwhiners? it seem they want the jug to have some structural reinforcements...


anyway, thx Oleg (and all its team) for the patch, it is definitely improving the game...

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:25 PM
Please dont get me wrong, I love the new fw series but I must say that I think the roll rate is a tincy bit over done


any opinions On that ?

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:33 PM
Hoarmurath wrote:
-
-
- for the bar, can i suggest with pass it to the
- jugwhiners? it seem they want the jug to have some
- structural reinforcements...
-
-
-

Too bad Oleg does not have the cajones to admit that the 190 has an error in its cockpit modelling.

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:45 PM
What are you people talking about? How many of you have actually flown a FW190? I know I haven't and I wouldn't expect to be able to fly one after after playing on this sim for a while. I wouldn't trust what you read about the Fw190, especially on the net, because you can be sure somebody will say something quite different. I don't expect the game to be exact and I suspose it never will be.

The thing is, it's an excellent game regardless whether it's historically accurate or not. It's probably correct to say it's amongst the best combat flight sims available at the moment. It's good to know designers take care of their work. After all, the patch is a free addon so I consider myself lucky we have such people who are prepared to do such things when other software developers may charge a fee.

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:48 PM
whow the plane rocks now! as it should be!
I fly the Dora a lot and seems that the roll rate is realistic. DOnt forget the plane had no outer wing armament and thus, the roll rate is high

As for the p 47, 4 mg's in each wing are heavy and far from the roll axis wich cause a higher rate of roll, logical to me.
I ve tried the A8 with the dual mg151 pods and teh roll is awefull due to the same reason!

I just love the patched verion tkx Oleg and keep it up !

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:56 PM
I would say it seems to snap out of spins and stalls to easy, all you need to do is let go and it stops.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:02 AM
Its great but the roll-rate may be a second or two too fast. The stall and spin recovery was well known to be easy and quick.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:09 AM
Yes yes yes agree with Walter, FW are good and safe to drive int to combat now in B&Z.

Thanks.


Eh, Walter, t'est pas locké ce coup-ci ? /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:30 AM
CHDT wrote:
- The best, perhaps, but nevertheless not a noob
- plane, it still has to be flown correctly. Don't
- stay in a dogfight and most important, learn to fire
- your weapons always at full speed with deflection.
- Never slow down your 190 to stay in the six of a
- bandit like you could do in a t&b fighter. Never do
- that in a 190 and you will be safe!
-
- Cheers,
-
-

Yes, Totally agree.;-) It's a Fw190 pilot should do in most time.

***********
<img src=http://jackly.cpgl.net/bbs/attachment.php?s=&postid=19249>
It's Real, It's Fun!

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 05:22 AM
Jabo_Walter wrote:
- Perfect ... exactly like it must be ..
-

I'm not too attached to the FW190, but I'd tend to agree with that statement on the A's. On the D, I think the speed is right, but I'm curious if the stalls at high speed are accurate. At 480kph IAS, much stick pressure still throws you into a stall; only very gradual turns seem possible without inducing stalls even at higher speeds like these.

Heck, most if not all planes seem impossible to stall when you get up around 500 IAS. Were the Dora's really that bad at high speed turns?





<center>http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/images/trackwerks400.jpg (http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:19 AM
The Fw's were notorious for their vicious high speed stall. It seems to be modelled correctly. Even though the Fw's have tons of elevator authority at high speeds it's better to take it easy, making sure you don't lose to much energy, as prolonged turnfights is even more impossible now than pre-patch. But I believe this to be correct. Appart from excessive rollrate at high speed, the Fw190's are probably the enjoying the most correct FM of the game!

http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/robban75/Dora-9-3.JPG


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:46 AM
I agree with Robban.

I like the 190 alot now, but its rollrate at high speed is too much. The elevators are fine, excellent authority, but that doesn't mean you can just yank it around and not think about it... stalls and black-outs make this very dangerous.

I fly the 190 almost the same as in 1.0, very gentle on the controls, the only difference is that I can and do use the excelent elevators now to pull those extra G's in a deflection shot. Basically I fly pure pursuit if I'm going for a shot, and just that last 1 sec, I pull lead pursuit, and shoot (blind though, as they're under the nose).

They only thing that needs tuning IMHO is the rollrate.

"Ich bin ein Würgerwhiner no longer"

Message Edited on 08/14/0310:47AM by JZG_Kaiser

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:54 AM
EK262_LIONOGER wrote:
- whow the plane rocks now! as it should be!
- I fly the Dora a lot and seems that the roll rate is
- realistic. DOnt forget the plane had no outer wing
- armament and thus, the roll rate is high
-
- As for the p 47, 4 mg's in each wing are heavy and
- far from the roll axis wich cause a higher rate of
- roll, logical to me.
- I ve tried the A8 with the dual mg151 pods and teh
- roll is awefull due to the same reason!

With that logic, why the roll rate doesn't change when you place 2 internal MK108 cannons in the A9 outer wing gun mounts?

Or are they made with feather light material all of a sudden.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:15 PM
It does fly a lot nicer i must agree ... but it takes a hell of a lot to get it on the ground with landing flaps, if you let go of the stick the nose comes up really dramatcally :\

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XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:54 PM
Raven4803 wrote:
- It does fly a lot nicer i must agree ... but it
- takes a hell of a lot to get it on the ground with
- landing flaps, if you let go of the stick the nose
- comes up really dramatcally :\

That's right..landing behavior seems a bit *strange* /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



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When once you have tasted flight,
you will always walk the earth
with your eyes turned skyward;
to where you have been
and to where you always want to return.

ZG77_Nagual
08-14-2003, 04:06 PM
Ground effect appears to be modeled pretty well in this puppy - I've noticed all the planes seem to flair as you go to touch down. Main prob with the 190 is losing airspeed - particularly when there is danger of getting vulched.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 05:08 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
-
- Too bad Oleg does not have the cajones to admit that
- the 190 has an error in its cockpit modelling.
-


Well it doesn't. It's the refraction, and Oleg admitted it and said he was not going to code in refraction.

You people are tiring.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 05:26 PM
Contract Kurt Tank he'll fix it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Glasses-"I may have four eyes but you only have one wing"

"Kurt Tank is your daddy"

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 05:35 PM
hmmm if he dont code in refraction why is then the bar a refraction ?
what are u trying to say ?

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 05:42 PM
Love that sound in the 190 D.


A virtual hot rod.


Widgeon

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 07:10 PM
190 is perfect no less, no more

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 07:35 PM
I recently (as mentioned in the P-47 roll rate thread) used a NACA chart supplied by Buzzsaw graphing roll rate as a function of speed, at 10,000 feet. I tested out as many planes from the chart as were comparable in the game.

From my tests, at "normal" speeds (IAS 280 mph), the roll rate of the Fw 190 is right on at rougly 143 degrees per second. Problem is, at higher diving speeds (IAS 390 mph) roll rate is almost exactly the same, when it should really decay to 78-77 degrees per second.

I'm not going to get into the Ami planes' roll rates, unless someone asks...

***************************************

"Oh no, the V-1 Doodlebug is heading for our bunghole!" ---David

"...I possess the wings of faith. Though heavy on my shoulder (no measurement can prove their weight), still a burden are they not to me. I am the challenger of gravity." ---Emperor

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 07:44 PM
Fw190 now in book is like it should be. Except I noticed too that roll rate doesnt suffer even when speed comes really high.

Elevator authority is really doing good for B&Z attacks.

Many planes need more tweaking to roll rates etc, but I gotta admit they got FW190 very close to what I have read about it, and not just in internet from real books /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Atleast now used properly Fw190A isnt cannon fodder.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 08:08 AM
basically agree with walter but do you use 190 to make a landing ?it is very difficult. almost no energy bleed in landing make it become a the most difficult landing a/c.even difficult than 109.is this nomal?

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:31 AM
"almost no energy bleed in landing"


Yep, I think too this aspect is a little bit "too much", but all the rest of the Fm is great!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:39 AM
I noticed that about landing it, full flaps and gear don't seem to make a huge difference, but really like flying 190 now.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:37 AM
Bremspropeller wrote:
- Raven4803 wrote:
-- It does fly a lot nicer i must agree ... but it
-- takes a hell of a lot to get it on the ground with
-- landing flaps, if you let go of the stick the nose
-- comes up really dramatcally :\
-
- That's right..landing behavior seems a bit *strange*


Gota agree with that Landing is indead very strange I have to hold the stick foward to get it too come down

I tryed landing with no flaps.... Not a good Idea

Gona try landing with only combat flaps as that feals close to right

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 01:19 PM
I've noticed this with other planes (namely the P40) as well. It shouldn't be the case where you have to *push forward* on the stick to land. However, when i came in *much* slower all was well, but my orginal argument still stands that the landing flaps and zero power would slow you down and not allow you to float for so long...

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 06:01 PM
robban75 wrote:
- The Fw's were notorious for their vicious high speed
- stall. It seems to be modelled correctly. Even
- though the Fw's have tons of elevator authority at
- high speeds it's better to take it easy, making sure
- you don't lose to much energy, as prolonged
- turnfights is even more impossible now than
- pre-patch. But I believe this to be correct. Appart
- from excessive rollrate at high speed, the Fw190's
- are probably the enjoying the most correct FM of the
- game!
-

Oh, I don't doubt you, I'm just suprised by the change in the Dora. Perhaps it's my imagination, but the A8 seems to be a better high speed turner than the Dora, and if I remember right, this is historically untrue. Perhaps it is my imagination; perhaps the Dora just has much more "elevator authority" than the A8 and is therefore easier to stall at high speeds.

Regardless, I think the 190s are much more fun to fly now; I just have to make adjustments.


<center>http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/images/trackwerks400.jpg (http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:05 AM
ive noticed the p39 rolls as fast as the fw it seems and the dora almost the same with longer wings. many planes roll MUCH faster at high speed. aka the jug. so high speed fast rolls seem accurate in fw. in janes ww2 fighters the fw rolled as fast as it does in here. lightning quick. who are we to say that 3 seconds at high alt is too fast for a fw? i believe its feasable. were not talking turns but a quick roll. at airshows i see prop planes roll like a spinning top. to me they seem to roll faster than 3 seconds. 3 seconds is a long time for a fighter plane to do many things in fact. 3 seconds of fire will blow up any plane usually

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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:25 PM
The Dora 9 had the same wing span (10.506m) as the Fw190A's.


RedDeth wrote:
- ive noticed the p39 rolls as fast as the fw it seems
- and the dora almost the same with longer wings.

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:23 AM
i had the impression the fw190 landing was the other way around .. it was so heavy in landing that LW pilots were ordered to bail rather than attempt a deadstick landing with no engine

<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:55 AM
You're getting the things out of the proportions because you can't throw in the previously possible 40? glide slopes in landing. A landing circuit is much bigger than what an average sim pilot bothers to do. Normally with 0 power FW should take about 34 seconds to slow down from 350 km/h to 250 km/h and with flaps it would be about half of that time. It will fly 2.7 km in the first case and 1.3 km in the second. Now if you first start slowing down just at the start of the runway, you'll hit the trees on the other end. Additionally, it is not said that idle means 0 power.
Note this long time to slow down does not have to mean unrealistic glide ratio.

-------------------------------------
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See the golden ghetto's creeper.
Crazy flags from history, songs for the White House gangsters, guns for hellgate railway sleepers.
But there's a man who makes no enemies, a body never breathless, no ambition ever hopeless.
So how stands the city on this winter's night?
The city on the hill or so they said.
The snow is falling down around the armoury.
The city's closing in around my head.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:30 AM
love the new FM for the 190 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Now, i WAS a Würgerwhiner, thx Oleg /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

And for the kolossal BAR ??.......

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:58 AM
I found a nocd patch that works
Of course none of you asshats would want use such a thing even if you did BUY-PAY FOR-GIVE MONEY- for a game that assumes you are untrustworthy.
blow it out yer *** motorcycle man

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 06:05 PM
~S!

I don't know if this track will attach here, properly, but the demo shows that if you keep G on the plane it'll slow quickly down to landing and approach speed. (Noted Exception is the P-47)

http://birdsofprey16thgviap.com/forums/index.php?s=96b41f4bbacbd03ee74d311513ddd13b&act=ST&f=2&t=226


Regards:


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