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View Full Version : The Real Problem with Heroes V



ArcherSpammer
01-30-2011, 06:40 PM
Heroes V was a big disappointment to me. There were plenty of small annoying things, but I might have been able to overlook that if it weren't for the major balance issues, namely the necropolis faction. Most of the problem was because it's first tier unit could beat any other first tier one on one, but you could also get a thousand of them easily and they weren't compensated for by the other units either. Hopefully you don't let this happen in Heroes VI

(P.S are you getting rid of the 2 path upgrades, because those were a good idea)

GamerGeek87
01-30-2011, 06:48 PM
The biggest problem for me by FAR, was the extremely horrible loading times for the enemy turns. Without that I would have been playing H5 all the time.

To answer your question, no there wont be any alternative upgrades in the original game. It wasnt in the original H5 either so maybe we will see them in an expansion again, I also liked them a lot.

Thunion
01-31-2011, 01:21 AM
Yeah about those extremely long loadings...most annoyng thing in the whole series.

And about double upgrades:If those gys will sit days to balance them out such way thats both upgrades would be worth eachother however each created for diffrent playstyle.But again the main problem is to balance both upgrades between eachother and then balace them both in whole game.
Of course it should be eassier now cuz of core elite champ.It needs less balance now but in my opinion thats the reason we are not going to see alternatives:We allready got 3 diffrent creatures of the same lv6,making 6 diffrent soon would make every faction look similar so i guess they gonna leave those 3.

SandroTheMaster
01-31-2011, 04:17 AM
They already said they are taking measures about the loading times so it doesn't get near as long as in Heroes V.

I wonder if they're taking Stardock's idea of making the AI plan its turn during the players...

Thunion
01-31-2011, 05:41 AM
I wonder if they're taking Stardock's idea of making the AI plan its turn during the players...

And THAT would be amazing
I mean meybe it would even coue a small lags not on top end comps(like mine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) but if it would reduce loading time 4-5 times it would be worth of it.And if it wont couse any lags it would be even better.

nqox
01-31-2011, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by ArcherSpammer:
Heroes V was a big disappointment to me. There were plenty of small annoying things, but I might have been able to overlook that if it weren't for the major balance issues, namely the necropolis faction. Most of the problem was because it's first tier unit could beat any other first tier one on one)

To hear that is a real surprise to me. Skeletons were one of the weakest tier 1. Assasins are by far the best tier 1 in the game. And skeletons die easily. They were a joke.

Also I don't think loading times were that long.

Heroes 5, especially TOE was a wonderful game for me. It was beautiful.

Paokali
01-31-2011, 03:53 PM
I am a three kind of guy and think we can learn from that, one don't have a cap for necro on what they can revive, but make the only thing then can revive skeletons, that's why they have always been weaker in HoMM, I mean they are easier to get, assassins were ridiculous, you could go round with 50 and win so many battles.

But for me loading times, but also there was a lack of realism don't you think? I mean you look at the creatures they are creating now, screenshots are beautiful, whereas before you look at like the gythons, they look cartoonish in 5. Matter of opinion some people like that but yeah.

However one thing I would keep was story line scenarios, nice add for when you finish the campaign.

MillionVoices
01-31-2011, 11:11 PM
the real problem in heroes V. *welll.... there are so many..... >_<*
- extrem unbalance of fractions
- crap map editor
- totally random of gettin: stat-points, skills and spells
- too less fractions (yes, there were too less of em.... and now imagine heroes VI startin with ONLY 5 fractions T_T)
- dump AI
- time for AI's turn

PS: the followin example really happened and is NOT a joke:
AI has about 3 heroes each havin a bigger armier than my main hero. One of the AI`s lv25-30 heroes attacks a lv1 Sylvan hero (of mine who has a few lv1 and lv2 units) and flees from the battle regardless the fact that my "mini-hero" wouldn't stand ANY chance against him.
[AI`s hero had more than 100 titans and so on...]
--> i look like this O_O

Thunion
02-01-2011, 02:43 AM
too less fractions (yes, there were too less of em.... and now imagine heroes VI startin with ONLY 5 fractions T_T)
With addons not really... 8 Factions is pretty enought for homm only homm3 had more(9 with armagedon blade)
But still 6 faction for a game without addons is a minimum even "Failest homm ever"(4) had 6 the only game in series which hadnt at least 6 factions was 1 heroes with 4.(which was realesed in 1995 years of games like warcraft 2 So no other good strategy game had more then 4 races i guess)

goznik
02-03-2011, 04:39 PM
Definitly the AI is Heroes V buggest problem.
If it wasnt for it I would prefer Heroes V over Heroes III.

But how can I play a game when most of the time the computer is playing?
And I have a quad core cpu which should be more than enought.

ellert1973
02-03-2011, 06:02 PM
the biggest dissappointment ever was the loading time for the AI I would still be playing it now, so now I am playing H3 and loving it.

Paokali
02-04-2011, 09:31 AM
Yes to heroes 3, by far the best out of all of them... Much love for it XD

H5forem
03-09-2011, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by nqox:
Skeletons were one of the weakest tier 1. Assasins are by far the best tier 1 in the game. And skeletons die easily. They were a joke.

Also I don't think loading times were that long.

Heroes 5, especially TOE was a wonderful game for me. It was beautiful.
After they introduced "dark energy" they fixed the problem with unbalanced skeletons.

The A.I. was really dumb, but as far the ballance goes, H3 and H2 where way more unbalanced (H3 had also somme overpowered spells.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

WaterPoloLaw
03-09-2011, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Paokali:
Yes to heroes 3, by far the best out of all of them... Much love for it XD

I still cannot see why everyone loved H3 so much more than H5. Yes, it was a great game in its time, but better than H5? I just don't see it.

H3 in my opinion what highly imbalanced both between and within the factions. There also was very little need to contain any unit in your army other than fliers and ranged units with very few exceptions. SOme factions were vastly overpowered, others were vastly underpowered. There was no point to choose a might hero over a magic one. The spells available to high ranking magic hereos were rediculous, period.

The fact that might factions only could have 3 levels of mage guild made them wholly underpowered. There was no point to choose, say, fortress or stronghold over dungeon.

Look, i am not hating on H3. It was a great game for its time. i just don't think it was comparable to H5. H5 had plenty of problems to0, but not like H3.

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
03-09-2011, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by ArcherSpammer:
Heroes V was a big disappointment to me. There were plenty of small annoying things, but I might have been able to overlook that if it weren't for the major balance issues, namely the necropolis faction. Most of the problem was because it's first tier unit could beat any other first tier one on one, but you could also get a thousand of them easily and they weren't compensated for by the other units either. Hopefully you don't let this happen in Heroes VI

(P.S are you getting rid of the 2 path upgrades, because those were a good idea)

Alternate upgrades...not in the basic game for sure. An expansion...it's still possible but as of yet undecided.

Balancing of units is something that is on-going right now. And it's something that will probably be getting tweeked ever so slightly right up to the release and probably even after via patches. No matter HOW much testing you do on a game as diverse and complex as this one is...you'll always run into some balancing issues. But trust me...we're on it.

Lastly regarding the loading issues from h5 that others have mentioned...this was MY number one issue prior to development. I've harped on it from day 1. It's been addressed. It's MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better. Is it as quick as H3...no, but the game is more complex so it's going to be nearly impossible for it to be that quick. But it's close.

Alextriad
03-09-2011, 07:44 PM
Heroes 5 the biggest problems imo...

1. Very unbalanced factions. (Just like Heroes 3)
2. The loading for everything took forever unless you had a powerful computer. The game ate up way more memory than needed.
3. Last but not least there were too many online issues with errors that made it impossible to play. Eventually I could not play online after getting a new computer. Worst one was when I would keep getting an impassable CheckSum error that the developers cared not to bother fixing.

Ubi supplies the funds and funds the projects. This probably includes all funding to patch the game. So hopefully Ubi shapes up this time or I will never buy their games again and highly recommend people not to. It's a complete disgrace to the producers when I want to play a game online just to find out everywhere I look people having the same problem as me can't play either because a patch was never made. But I love Heroes of Might and Magic series (not Might and Magic Heroes series) so I will give one more chance to who's producing it.

3DO eventually ruined Jon Van Caneghem's Might and Magic series rushing all his work with short deadlines with little financing. I'm guessing they wanted to release the games quickly and cash in on a diminishing fanbase. I don't see how you could do that anyhow until the fanbase is big enough like Nintendo's Link/Mario or Squaresoft's Final Fantasy. So I'm not surprised 3DO went under. Eventually other lead game designers took over and the story never even matched with the primary underlying theme. This was done with the last Might and Magic game (MnMIX). The story's main underlying theme was also abolished with Nival's/Ubi's HoMM5. Also, it was completely torn down by Ubisoft's fake versions. Including the wacky Dark Messiah spin off.

However, gameplay-wise Ubi has funded game developers to make things similar and even with HoMM5 they tried to hear the fans somewhat, as I had seen. I met the man who was interviewed about Heroes 6 in the youtube video that I saw. This was at E3 back in 2005 and here he was promoting Heroes 5. right before Heroes 5 came out and I really felt like he had a good honest vision of trying to keep the gameplay true. The only thing that seemed bad was the care for patch support and caring for the quality of online play.

I hope Heroes 6 is good and I hope the developers and producers know what mistakes they need to fix.

Paokali
03-10-2011, 12:35 AM
Unbalanced factions? I am sorry but just because a tier 4 creature in one place is stronger than another, does not mean that there isn't a counter for it. I mean you can play any faction easily and effectively.

The point of fortress and stronghold characters was, it was very easy for them to get basic magic resistance. Therefore you get that up to expert, you are sorted.

They were also fast movers, played more with morale, and the troops you sent in were hard hitters. Mage characters for me, were considered weak, there strong spells bounce of your magic resistance, and then you hero with his + 15 modifier made it so that your creatures were doing extra damage.

I think the best thing they started doing in 5, was having mixed external creatures. it made those battles more interesting, when there was a mix of range, melee of flying wild creatures. Rather than just 200 of the same thing. That was a good step forward.

This and I found my favorite thing throughout the heroes, shockingly was heroes 4's leveling system. You could grandmaster things for a start. That and you could get titles for things, e.g attack and estates got you warlord. Things like this made it interesting for me.

p.s I respect the grounds that there was unbalance, however the joy was finding ways around this, if everything is the same I gaurentee you would all complain about that.

mcgslo
03-10-2011, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by WaterPoloLaw:
H3 in my opinion what highly imbalanced both between and within the factions. There also was very little need to contain any unit in your army other than fliers and ranged units with very few exceptions. SOme factions were vastly overpowered, others were vastly underpowered. There was no point to choose a might hero over a magic one. The spells available to high ranking magic hereos were rediculous, period.


At the end game play decides if the game is good or bad. And H3 have/had much better game play than H5. In H3 if you saw AI you had to think twice to attack them. They could just come and kill you and general feel was than AI is smarter than what is in H5 (off course it cheated, no one created for now self learning AI with unpredictable moves… if they will we will have skynet on our hands http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) And overall H3 seems smarter with super fast AI loading times and it was nice that you could play with all 8 factions. In H5 even with 6GB ram, SSD hdd and i7 proc. Still is very very slow (clearly BAD optimization)

In H3 and H5 you had spells that are overpowered and artifacts that suppose to be rare and yet all heroes had them. And Luck decides most of outcomes. Like what creature were guarding your mine (archer or no archer), which artifacts you have near, if you had found just right resources for buildings, which skills you were offered to choose from, etc.

Overall I played H3 and H5 (and H2, H4) a lot and have to say that H3 is my favorite. Obviously not in graphics but game play wise.

One of the best features from both H3 and H5 was random map generator! Although it should be even better!! So I am quite disappointed for H6 that they will not include it since I think this is why heroes series lasts so long... really hope they will include it soon after release…

Thunion
03-10-2011, 03:15 AM
One of the best features from both H3 and H5 was random map generator!
Yeah RMG was amazing only once had issue with it,when AI was on island surrounded by Mountains with no portal there X(.But other then that it worked fine,really good thing when you passed most of yours maps and lazy to download another

Metamagician
03-10-2011, 04:55 PM
What utterly ruined HOMM5 for me to the point of not playing anymore in mid campaign was random selection of skills upon leveling.

Worst design decision ever!

Nxss
03-10-2011, 05:16 PM
Nothing was wrong with H5!

Every Heroes game was something different and new. That is what I like about it. The game has to change! Tis the way it works. I love every game in the series for what they are. Sure, H2 was the one that brought me into the game, however, it does not mean I did not like the rest of them because they were a tad different!

You know which Heroes games are installed on my puters? H4 and H5! Why? They are the newest ones and they try something new. If they all played like H3, who the hell would care?

Although you may not like one or the other, it really does not matter. Games change and Heroes had to follow suit. That being said, this is the H6 forums. You wanna ***** about H5? Use MSN! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Alextriad
03-10-2011, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Nxss:
Nothing was wrong with H5!

Every Heroes game was something different and new. That is what I like about it. The game has to change! Tis the way it works. I love every game in the series for what they are. Sure, H2 was the one that brought me into the game, however, it does not mean I did not like the rest of them because they were a tad different!

You know which Heroes games are installed on my puters? H4 and H5! Why? They are the newest ones and they try something new. If they all played like H3, who the hell would care?

Although you may not like one or the other, it really does not matter. Games change and Heroes had to follow suit. That being said, this is the H6 forums. You wanna ***** about H5? Use MSN! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Discussion about the mistakes of HoMM5 helps discuss about what can be learned from the mistakes of HoMM5 so they could hopefully NOT be put in HoMM6. Or we can at least discuss what we'd like to not see in HoMM6. That being said, this is H6 forums.

H5 was not that much different than H3 by the way. Minor changes were made between the two (excluding new spell/unit stats, which happens in every HoMM sequel). The game was meant to go back to the roots of HoMM3 after the poor sales and popularity of HoMM4.

Alextriad
03-10-2011, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Paokali:
Unbalanced factions? I am sorry but just because a tier 4 creature in one place is stronger than another, does not mean that there isn't a counter for it. I mean you can play any faction easily and effectively.

The point of fortress and stronghold characters was, it was very easy for them to get basic magic resistance. Therefore you get that up to expert, you are sorted.

They were also fast movers, played more with morale, and the troops you sent in were hard hitters. Mage characters for me, were considered weak, there strong spells bounce of your magic resistance, and then you hero with his + 15 modifier made it so that your creatures were doing extra damage.

I think the best thing they started doing in 5, was having mixed external creatures. it made those battles more interesting, when there was a mix of range, melee of flying wild creatures. Rather than just 200 of the same thing. That was a good step forward.

This and I found my favorite thing throughout the heroes, shockingly was heroes 4's leveling system. You could grandmaster things for a start. That and you could get titles for things, e.g attack and estates got you warlord. Things like this made it interesting for me.

p.s I respect the grounds that there was unbalance, however the joy was finding ways around this, if everything is the same I gaurentee you would all complain about that.

It seemed pretty unbalanced from the quite a few matches I played but I didn't beat it to death as I did with Heroes 3. One balancing issue tho was some factions really needed a definite skill path for leveling up. Mage characters were definitely too weak where as in 3 they were too strong. Perhaps 6 will have a middle ground.

From what I gathered Fortress and Sylvan were amazing and Inferno and Stronghold were on the weaker end (I heard Academy was too but hardly played them or against them).

Inferno had in general bad units and were terrible at creeping. Stronghold really bit the dust without good magic defense. You will notice in H6 they already announced that the orcs have a specialty of magic defense. But again I will say, I didn't play super hardcore to cut out every dimension of each faction.

Balance I don't think will be as big of an issue for HoMM6. I feel pretty confident from the small bit that they have showed us. *crosses fingers*

Paokali
03-11-2011, 12:27 AM
thank-you, see people, another person who thinks CHANGE IS ALLOWED! -___-

Phoenixzs84
03-13-2011, 02:13 PM
Heroes 5 was one of the best balanced game in the series.Apart from art work I liked it very much in sense of systems.?t had also the best skill system of the series by a good margin.

That being said what bothered me was the huge effectiveness of initative and luck and morale bonuses.You could just capitalize on that(Slyvan usually did that) which was kind of annoying if they get also some morale boosting artifacts.

other than that alternate upgrades really made it hard to balance the game(Arcane archer or horned leaper anyone?)

Apart from that movement spells for everyone aproach was very welcome for instance.H3 had those wizards jump from the half of the map and ******** you or collect troops from each castle in one turn which made strategic decisions obsolute.

I like the instant retaliation system from H4 but ?ts not going to happen again so I hope battles are not decided on first come first serve basis(Especially in endgame battles)

And all heroes games had (h4 suprisingly had this less due to instant retaliation) a very steep slipery slope where winer took all and boosted xp so much that it was nearly impossible to keep up with him after a grand battle.I hope one battle thing vanishes with XP for each side like in heroes kingdoms.

montysnake
06-01-2018, 07:08 PM
I have HOMM V from ubisoft for the Mac, Previously I was able to play it, but now it asks me for the Activation Code, and it says it cannot contact the server and I cannot enter the Registration code that came with the game! Please Help!!! :(