PDA

View Full Version : Ubisoft turning tide in piracy war?



Unstop4ever
03-26-2010, 12:05 PM
I don't pirate media but I am interested in the war itself. Recently it seems with Assassin's Creed 2 that people have not cracked it yet. Does this mean that Ubisoft has pioneered the solution to stopping piracy?

So far it appears so. I would congratulate them but I do not celebrate victory so quickly in a war that's been fought for generations.

Unstop4ever
03-26-2010, 12:05 PM
I don't pirate media but I am interested in the war itself. Recently it seems with Assassin's Creed 2 that people have not cracked it yet. Does this mean that Ubisoft has pioneered the solution to stopping piracy?

So far it appears so. I would congratulate them but I do not celebrate victory so quickly in a war that's been fought for generations.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-26-2010, 12:13 PM
a month and still uncracked ?

they were back slapping themselves after the first week,they wet themselves with glee after the second week,after the thrid week the phrase "rucking bell" was bandied round http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

right now you can bet your rectal port that someone at Ubisoft or the publishers is fending off phone calls about licensing the DRM for thier own games.

It`ll take a few years for any benefit to filter down to us gamers,bunch a greedy beggars they are.
but we should all cheer the DRM`s success.

Unstop4ever
03-26-2010, 12:31 PM
I'm also hoping that they have it set up as to if somehow it is cracked they already have a hotfix in place at the push of a button.

That is since there's a ton of content server side it is constantly changing and what not.

Course I have little idea how it's done but I am a bit of a geek so I could come up with my own theories.

So far it makes sense to have stuff serverside.

SagittariusArc
03-26-2010, 01:58 PM
Ubisoft definitely turned the tide. They successfully erased the pirates from their enemy list...and added the customer in the process!

How do customers feel about being punished by the new DRM? They feel really good last time I asked. They buy the game and love it.

I say they're grateful prey. Ubisoft is a master hunter in this business.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-26-2010, 02:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SagittariusArc:
Ubisoft definitely turned the tide. They successfully erased the pirates from their enemy list...and added the customer in the process!

How do customers feel about being punished by the new DRM? They feel really good last time I asked. They buy the game and love it.

I say they're grateful prey. Ubisoft is a master hunter in this business. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

as a customer i can safely say i havent been punished in any way.

bought the game and loved it,well until the bugs got me.

grateful ?..yes,without them the game wouldnt exist.

in todays world we have choice,as nobodys coming round and forcing us to buy anything,if we choose to buy then thats our choice.

SagittariusArc
03-26-2010, 02:26 PM
1.) QED.

2.) You haven't experienced a server problem I pressume?

Chidder
03-26-2010, 02:34 PM
I'm sure it's harder to figure out a way around DRM than around regular game protection, but in my experience (as in "with people", not code, lol) certain people love a challenge and I wouldn't be surprised if eventually they'll crack it.
So even if it hasn't been done yet, I'll vote no.

(If it'll end up taking years to get around the DRM I'll return to this thread and change my vote.) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

npatten
03-27-2010, 01:04 AM
As for me, I would say that I've loved AC2 from the moment I started playing it...And I didn't get any bug...Very fluid game from the start and very enjoyable!! I had the same with AC1....

I admit that I did tried some cracked versions of AC1 and they cannot by any means be compared to the original I bought in the end....It crashed in a very unperdictable manner....Made the experience very dissagreable.....

I think it's a good thing they are protecting their content that well, because it is something of value...They deserve that kind of protection for their hard work on that game...May they offer us more masterpieces like this one.....

rutix
03-27-2010, 04:35 AM
I dont think they have turned the tide. Just because it hasn't been fully cracked yet doesn't mean they won. They did crack it but you miss content. So they have it cracked for like 75%.

rimlanin09
03-27-2010, 05:23 AM
It will get cracked sooner or later. They are just delaying pirates. In fact a friend of mine who refuses to buy games and rather waits for them to get cracked said it did get cracked, but the crack worked for some and not for others.

As a customer, i don't like this DRM for several reasons:

1. I like to play singleplayer games when my internet goes off

2. Servers were jam-packed the first few days it came on and it took about 20 minutes to get into the game.

3. I can imagine this DRM being a issue with people with less stable or slower connections than me.

To be honest i dont think its a good idea. It will probably get cracked properly within a few weeks.

And even if you repel pirates, you repel customers away too. If it gets cracked, it be a lot better to crack it because legit customers will have to suffer, while pirates will have fun.

Seriously i think their should be a patch that takes out the DRM.

thales.100
03-27-2010, 07:02 AM
UBI won, no doubt, since the new DRM is uncrackable so far.

SagittariusArc
03-27-2010, 08:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thales.100:
UBI won, no doubt, since the new DRM is uncrackable so far. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No question, Ubisoft definitely won, at least from an idealistic point of view. As for the sales we have to ask Ubisoft. Many players said they wont buy ACII due to the new DRM. So sales could be bad, or they couldn't. I don't know.

But the important question is who lost. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I say we, the customers, los. We lost our freedom in deciding when to play. And we came one step closer in becoming the "vitreous customer".

Alex_HS
03-27-2010, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thales.100:
UBI won, no doubt, since the new DRM is uncrackable so far. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont know if Ubi sold more copies of AC II over AC because of the new drm but i seriously doubt that, the requirement for a permanent conection alone turned many potential buyers away.

As for the game itself.. its the buggiest pc game i've bought in recent years.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-27-2010, 09:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alex_HS:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thales.100:
UBI won, no doubt, since the new DRM is uncrackable so far. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont know if Ubi sold more copies of AC II over AC because of the new drm but i seriously doubt that, the requirement for a permanent conection alone turned many potential buyers away.

As for the game itself.. its the buggiest pc game i've bought in recent years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

still cant play for the constant freezes

but next to mass effect 2 its the BEST game i have bought in years.

once they iron out the bugs this one will be getting awards for years to come.

PurpleHaze1980
03-27-2010, 03:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

I dont know if Ubi sold more copies of AC II over AC because of the new drm but i seriously doubt that, the requirement for a permanent conection alone turned many potential buyers away.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why I can't play it and won't be buying it. My connection disconnects me - especially if I'm in my room which is where I play games the most.

When I buy a game, I should be the one who decides when and where to play it, NOT a company who thinks it's acceptable to dictate to the average video gamer their rights on playability of a game they already own.

Until they patch it, I won't be making any future purchases on any of their software. They might be all patting each other on the back for a "well done mate" congratulations right now...but when their sales continue to drop when people get frustrated or annoyed with this DRM crap, I'm sure we'll see them change their tune.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-27-2010, 03:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PurpleHaze1980:

Until they patch it, I won't be making any future purchases on any of their software. They might be all patting each other on the back for a "well done mate" congratulations right now...but when their sales continue to drop when people get frustrated or annoyed with this DRM crap, I'm sure we'll see them change their tune. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

kinda like when new games started forcing people to upgrade thier pc`s to play them,except now it seems to be forcing some to upgrade thier isp package.

Gekkibi
03-27-2010, 04:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
kinda like when new games started forcing people to upgrade thier pc`s to play them,except now it seems to be forcing some to upgrade thier isp package. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Partially true, partially not. My graphic card still works even if I am in a middle of nowhere (Lets say an oil rig, ship, summer cottage in the wilderness [However, I can think of n+1 other ways to spend time there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ]).

Unstop4ever
03-27-2010, 04:22 PM
If you're getting disconnected it's your fault not Ubi's. It can be a port issue which can be fixed by opening the port and searching for instructions via Google.

Sure it sucks you have to be connected to the internet but you don't have to purchase theg ame.

drfathertime
03-27-2010, 05:10 PM
I would put like this.

UBI won the battle against pirates, but war is far from over.

It may take couple of months or so, but it will be cracked sooner or later, since nothing is perfect.

@SagiArc
What have you been smoking? There are quite many of us who hate the DRM with passion, those ppl who were caught in the middle of crapstorm.
Besides, there are NO PROOF what so ever showing there were even this supposed DDOS attack occurred against UBI servers.

It could well been customers trying to connect to servers, but UBI was caught pants down.

Heelflip
03-27-2010, 05:24 PM
There is proof for attacks. Google it and you'll find it.

The thing is that when they were designing this type of DRM, they knew servers have to be stable at all times for game to work. There is no protection to these attack, so the idea (of this DRM) itself is flawed. But I don't see any other way to truly protect their games than the way they did. If this means more quality games for PC, then I partly support their DRM. Otherwise I'm completely against it.

drfathertime
03-27-2010, 05:38 PM
In that case present us the one article that does NOT include statements from UBI themselves.

Because all the articles floating around are "UBI said this, UBI said that"

It's far easier to blame "hackers" than admit "we weren't prepared for this".

Remember 2K and BioShock?

Gekkibi
03-27-2010, 05:41 PM
There weren't any proof that earth wasn't flat.

Everyone said it was flat and if you disagreed you were burnt alive.

Some sources says it was "hacked" (Ya, calling DDoS attack a hack is like saying microwave pizza is a restaurant meal), some says it was a crappy server what was unable to process all the customers at the same time.

Only Ubisoft knows the truth (And I doubt they wouldn't say it was their server even if it was the reason. Hard to learn the truth from them).

Heelflip
03-27-2010, 06:02 PM
With a little bit of search anyone can find a certain Russian hacker forum that organized these attacks. Or you can check some pirate sites, where someone uploaded instructions and people were writing updates (X minutes to next attack and similar stuff).
It's actually pretty interesting stuff to read - they were attacking servers by just pinging them with 1kb. And there is no protection against pinging (AFAIK), the thing itself also isn't illegal. But if enough people do it, they can bring any server down. IPs can be tracked though and Ubi can complain to ISPs, which are then forced to block the IPs from connecting to the Internet.

Gekkibi
03-27-2010, 06:21 PM
How many different organizations said they did certain terrorist act? They just want the publicity...

And if pinging to do a DoS attack (With only one D) isn't illegal why should the ISPs shut down their internet connections?

It is not that I don't trust you. The point is there isn't enough RAW facts that it was an organized attack against the servers.

Maybe we should change the thread if you would like to continue this discussion, because it is deviating a little bit from the original subject:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1069024/m/1801042338 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/1801042338)

drfathertime
03-27-2010, 06:26 PM
@Gekki
and if UBI is leasing server pool, they would know as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LOL calling DDOS for hack http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hm I guess I will end up burning http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

@Heel
Everyone can talk big, chihuahua barks more than bigger dogs.
Without any HARD EVIDENCE, it can't be accepted as truth.
Don't take me as a n00b, I know perfectly well how DDOS works.

Heelflip
03-27-2010, 06:31 PM
I'm saying that pinging itself isn't illegal. But if you abuse it, it becomes illegal. The same goes for many other things.

There were so many comments written on that Russian forum (almost 100 pages in few days) and on pirate sites (people were constantly posting updates) that it's hard to believe they didn't attack.

The whole attack was a childish way to show Ubi's servers aren't reliable.

drfathertime
03-27-2010, 06:54 PM
We kinda know that already don't we?
Owning a hammer is not illegal, but embedding it in a persons skull is. Same logic.
But what are you trying to prove with that statement I wonder.

As it seems, you do comprehend russian, so enlighten me .
So how did they attack UBI servers then? (Don't bloody tell me they did hold F5)
In what intervals?
And approximately how many ppl were involved?

Heelflip
03-27-2010, 07:09 PM
Hehe, you don't ping a server by reloading a webpage, you do it with commander. For instance, if I want to see my ping times, I'll run commander and type "ping www.google.com (http://www.google.com) -t". It'll ping 1b packages. You can tell the cmd to ping bigger packages by adding other lines of commands... And for the Russian site, use google translate.

Do you think Ubisoft is really that much of an unprofessional company that their servers would be down "just because"?

Gekkibi
03-27-2010, 07:18 PM
White Star Line was a professional ship company. Do you think any of their ships would hit an iceberg. Oh, wait... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Because this thread is going to a wrong direction I think it would be the best if I go to sleep and check the thread in the morning.

drfathertime
03-27-2010, 07:21 PM
Agreed, night y'all.
Remember to fast forward one hour because of the summer time!

Heelflip
03-27-2010, 07:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
White Star Line was a professional ship company. Do you think any of their ships would hit an iceberg. Oh, wait... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Because this thread is going to a wrong direction I think it would be the best if I go to sleep and check the thread in the morning. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that's exactly what I'm saying. Ubisoft controls environment in which their servers are. It's almost impossible that their servers would fail on their own. But they can't control outside influences such as ping attacks (or weather if you want)

Heelflip
03-27-2010, 07:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by drfathertime:
We kinda know that already don't we?
Owning a hammer is not illegal, but embedding it in a persons skull is. Same logic.
But what are you trying to prove with that statement I wonder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was just answering to Gekkibi. He said: "And if pinging to do a DoS attack (With only one D) isn't illegal why should the ISPs shut down their internet connections?"

caswallawn_2k7
03-27-2010, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There weren't any proof that earth wasn't flat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
240 BC Eratosthenes found proof the earth was round and measured the circumference of the earth with actually quite high accuracy, the myth of the flat earth up to recent times only actually appeared in the 1900's.



but as for this topic, yes the system is working now, but you cant make a decision from it yet, this is still a fairly new system, if it is going to count for anything it depends if it can actually stand up to time. as now the DRM is standing still and the release groups have all the time they want to try to crack it and if they can do it fully once, will the other games still be secure or will they all fall like dominoes.

you need a lot more time before this question can ever be answered.

Murcuseo
03-28-2010, 02:18 AM
I'd say for an idea in its infancy the DRM was a huge success... like anything thats new theres going to be some teething problems and not everyone will be happy about it. Myself, I had little if any problems with the whole system, luckily I'm blessed with the patience to wait these things out if they go **** up!

I feel bad for the people who really struggled with the DRM but to be honest theres always gona be two sides to this issue and it's just the luck of the draw which side you end up on.

You might come to find out it was more to do with your ISP than Ubisoft...

If this is the future of PC gaming I'm quite happy with that, I'm a loyal customer and pay for my games... I'm more than happy to put up with things like the DRM if I know it makes things harder for pirates!

blitz32
03-28-2010, 04:50 AM
I'm not so sure the DRM has done UBI any favours. It is good that they have found a way to stop a game being cracked so quickly but the way this one works has in fact stopped me buying it even though it is now only 15 on Amazon.

I am not going to buy a game that is reliant not only on my hardware but that of the games company and also my isp. Too many links in the chain and if one breaks (as has happened with ubi servers) then I can't play the game I paid for.

More to the point would be 'of how many pirated AC1 that were d/l would of been actual sales?', and lets say it was about 2 in 1000 then I'd ask 'how many potential sales did we loose with the new DRM?'. I'd guess it may be about the same.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.co...-goo-piracy-rate-82/ (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/15/world-of-goo-piracy-rate-82/)

Murcuseo
03-28-2010, 06:35 AM
Regardless of your perspective and point of view... which is from the customers side obviously. You wouldn't just stand there while someone went through your pockets and stole from you... you'd put up a fight and thats exactly what Ubi are doing.

You have to empathise with the position their in, piracy is theft, end of.

I guarantee you if I broke into your house and stole your computer you'd hunt me to the ends of the earth if you had the means, not just stand there saying it's acceptable cause a lot of people do it!?!

They tried to put up a fight, whether it worked out for the best, whos to know. Speculation is pointless at the moment.

You have to admire them for actually taking the risk and trying to do something about piracy, everyone seems to forget it's the pirates that have put you in this situation not Ubisoft....

But, people tend to be misguided and spit and shout in the wrong direction about these things...meh lol

Engioc
03-28-2010, 06:47 AM
I doubt they have really won, its too early to tell....but I do think, despite the obvious problems its caused for legit customers, its the best solution technically, it will be the hardest to crack.

Personally I hope they have won, or someone does soon because I really hate pirates. I do always buy my games, I admit to having downloaded games at times, but only as a DEMO, if I like the game I then go buy a legit copy, if not I remove it and delete the download since there is no reason to keep a game I didn't like. I like the extra stuff you get when you buy a game, even though these days its not really that much. I just prefer knowing my game will work, offline or online, I don't need to stuff about with nocd patches etc, to me all that stuff is just a pain in the ***. Pirates always talk about how its because companies charge too high a price and make excuses as to why its ok to steal. The reality is if they didn't pirate the games, music, movies etc in the first place, it would be cheaper because companies wouldn't need to invest so much money in DRM. They need DRM to stop the pirates, so us legit customers end up footing the bill.

DRM does cause a lot of problems for legit customers, but I do really hope Ubi or someone can come up with a workable solution that doesn't screw up people who buy their games. Stop stealing, I blame pirates, not Ubi and infact I totally understand their position, defend your property/investment as any normal person/company would do.

TheLeoCrow
03-28-2010, 07:12 AM
I do support the consept of DRM, since it helps stop piracy. However this DRM has the potential of becoming a trojan horse into our computers, it could send reports of everything we do on our computers, or even passwords and other stuff stored in our computers and we wouldn't have a way of knowing it. And even if ubisoft doesn't do that, it opens the door for others to do it. And that's one of the reasons why people didn't buy the game. So is the DRM sucessfull? The only way to know is if Ubi tells us how much has AC2 sold (minus the returns) compared to AC1 and how much has their DRM cost them to built it. Is it worth it, for both the customers AND Ubisoft? I say no.

I must say that i played the game, enjoyed it, without more than a couple problems caused by the DRM (and far less problems than any other game). But i guess i am one of the lucky ones

S.H.O.D.A.N
03-28-2010, 07:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Heelflip:
Do you think Ubisoft is really that much of an unprofessional company that their servers would be down "just because"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you really want us to answer that?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
Regardless of your perspective and point of view... which is from the customers side obviously. You wouldn't just stand there while someone went through your pockets and stole from you... you'd put up a fight and thats exactly what Ubi are doing.

You have to empathise with the position their in, piracy is theft, end of.

I guarantee you if I broke into your house and stole your computer you'd hunt me to the ends of the earth if you had the means, not just stand there saying it's acceptable cause a lot of people do it!?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that definition to do to the thief what Ubisoft have done to the pirates and customers, you'd have to find the thief at a local Nightclub, pub or other public building and firebomb the entire building and shoot anyone trying to escape, whether they are guilty or not.

Murcuseo
03-28-2010, 08:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
Regardless of your perspective and point of view... which is from the customers side obviously. You wouldn't just stand there while someone went through your pockets and stole from you... you'd put up a fight and thats exactly what Ubi are doing.

You have to empathise with the position their in, piracy is theft, end of.

I guarantee you if I broke into your house and stole your computer you'd hunt me to the ends of the earth if you had the means, not just stand there saying it's acceptable cause a lot of people do it!?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that definition to do to the thief what Ubisoft have done to the pirates and customers, you'd have to find the thief at a local Nightclub, pub or other public building and firebomb the entire building and shoot anyone trying to escape, whether they are guilty or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol slightly over dramatised, but still... your point doesn't even make sense xD

Putting the pirates and customers in the same category is daft, Ubi tried to give us the best service possible without sacrificing their bottom end cash flow. they're a business and need funds to survive. Its only logical they'd take the precautions necessary to safe guard that.

Your point is based on the fact everyone had the same negative experience with the DRM but that just ain't true, theres been a lot of positive feedback about it.

People who have had a negative experience will feel the need to complain, those who have a positive experience don't feel the need to do much except enjoy the game... thats why theres so much anti-DRM spam everywhere.

Anyway, you're talking about fire bombing and shooting people. I'm talking about logical decisions made to protect their income :P

Two different things lol

Engioc
03-28-2010, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
Regardless of your perspective and point of view... which is from the customers side obviously. You wouldn't just stand there while someone went through your pockets and stole from you... you'd put up a fight and thats exactly what Ubi are doing.

You have to empathise with the position their in, piracy is theft, end of.

I guarantee you if I broke into your house and stole your computer you'd hunt me to the ends of the earth if you had the means, not just stand there saying it's acceptable cause a lot of people do it!?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that definition to do to the thief what Ubisoft have done to the pirates and customers, you'd have to find the thief at a local Nightclub, pub or other public building and firebomb the entire building and shoot anyone trying to escape, whether they are guilty or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol slightly over dramatised, but still... your point doesn't even make sense xD

Putting the pirates and customers in the same category is daft, Ubi tried to give us the best service possible without sacrificing their bottom end cash flow. they're a business and need funds to survive. Its only logical they'd take the precautions necessary to safe guard that.

Your point is based on the fact everyone had the same negative experience with the DRM but that just ain't true, theres been a lot of positive feedback about it.

People who have had a negative experience will feel the need to complain, those who have a positive experience don't feel the need to do much except enjoy the game... thats why theres so much anti-DRM spam everywhere.

Anyway, you're talking about fire bombing and shooting people. I'm talking about logical decisions made to protect their income :P

Two different things lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly, they are simply protecting their investment as do all other companies in gaming, music, movies, or in any other type of company. Look at any other industry, Ford, they don't use DRM exactly but they do take steps to protect their investment in products they sell. Your not free to go out and copy a Ford, claim it as your own and sell it, which is something many game pirates do try and thats one of the things that ****es me off the most.

Copying for your own personal use I dont have as much of a problem with, maybe you dont have enough cash to buy it, so you get it another way, I still dont like it but its ok. When people copy these games, and expect you to still pay for it, wtf?? why, its not your game, you didn't make any real investment in it, its not yours to sell and if I was going to pay money for it I'd rather buy a legit copy, I dont pay good money for stolen goods. I've heard people trying to suggest cause they invested their time in cracking and copying it they deserve some kind of payment, what a load of BS, nobody forced you to invest time in stealing.

As Robson already said, they haven't deliberately tried to cause problems for legit buyers, they invested in a DRM solution to stop pirates and hoped they would be able to implement it smoothly, but probably expected to have some initial problems. They wouldn't be any happier about the problems than the customers, sure they already got your money but they want you to enjoy AC2 so you'll buy AC3 4 5 6 etc. They'll fix the DRM problems and try to win back customers so AC remains a viable franchise. With that said I'm also sure some serious questions are being asked from Ubi to Ubi about the DRM problems and how to resolve the problem ASAP, they want this DRM system to work but they also want to keep their customers happy so you'll keep buying their games.

They'll try to achieve both those goals, DRM + happy customers, but in the end I am betting keeping their customers happy will win out if they aren't able to make this DRM work because happy customers is their life.

S.H.O.D.A.N
03-28-2010, 09:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
Regardless of your perspective and point of view... which is from the customers side obviously. You wouldn't just stand there while someone went through your pockets and stole from you... you'd put up a fight and thats exactly what Ubi are doing.

You have to empathise with the position their in, piracy is theft, end of.

I guarantee you if I broke into your house and stole your computer you'd hunt me to the ends of the earth if you had the means, not just stand there saying it's acceptable cause a lot of people do it!?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that definition to do to the thief what Ubisoft have done to the pirates and customers, you'd have to find the thief at a local Nightclub, pub or other public building and firebomb the entire building and shoot anyone trying to escape, whether they are guilty or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol slightly over dramatised, but still... your point doesn't even make sense xD

Putting the pirates and customers in the same category is daft, Ubi tried to give us the best service possible without sacrificing their bottom end cash flow. they're a business and need funds to survive. Its only logical they'd take the precautions necessary to safe guard that.

Your point is based on the fact everyone had the same negative experience with the DRM but that just ain't true, theres been a lot of positive feedback about it.

People who have had a negative experience will feel the need to complain, those who have a positive experience don't feel the need to do much except enjoy the game... thats why theres so much anti-DRM spam everywhere.

Anyway, you're talking about fire bombing and shooting people. I'm talking about logical decisions made to protect their income :P

Two different things lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You were talking about what if a thief had stolen something from you and how you'd resist, I gave you the real equivalent to what Ubisofts DRM does to customers.

My reply does make sense it's very simple, Ubisoft are treating their own customers as pirates... Effectively guilty until proven innocent and are happily butchering their customers along with the pirates as well.

As for 'positive feedback' on the DRM Don't make me laugh just try googling Assassin's Creed 2 DRM and you'll find most of the whole internet throwing out near pure negativity (and now EA has entered the firing line with C&C4).

Engioc
03-28-2010, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N
EA has entered the firing line with C&C4). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well to me this is just more proof that this kind of DRM will be in all games in the near future, so you better get used to it or you wont be playing any games. I dont like DRM, from a legit gamers point of view it is definitely bad, but from any publishers point of view its a must. DRM is here to stay so you can either stop playing games or learn to cope with it.

Ubi has it, will be in all Ubi games, EA, and I am sure all the other major publishers will do the same shortly. As I said once before on these forums I believe this kind of DRM will only get worse and even harder to crack, no longer will you buy a CD of code you can crack, you'll just buy an unlock code which gives you access to a server, content is downloaded as needed, deleted when it's not. It's obvious this is the way it will go, the internet made it easier for pirates to distribute the cracks, but now its going to help publishers protect their content by keeping it locked up on their own servers and limiting your access to it. It's hard to crack a game when you never get any of the code.

Not just games either, Office apps are already making the switch to online, offline is still available, but once the online versions improve enough with features and are stabile/accessible enough I bet MS Office offline will disappear, and the reason why consoles are getting internet connections isn't just for your benefit, its so they can get the same DRM as PC's.

S.H.O.D.A.N
03-28-2010, 10:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N
EA has entered the firing line with C&C4). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well to me this is just more proof that this kind of DRM will be in all games in the near future, so you better get used to it or you wont be playing any games. I dont like DRM, from a legit gamers point of view it is definitely bad, but from any publishers point of view its a must. DRM is here to stay so you can either stop playing games or learn to cope with it.

Ubi has it, will be in all Ubi games, EA, and I am sure all the other major publishers will do the same shortly. As I said once before on these forums I believe this kind of DRM will only get worse and even harder to crack, no longer will you buy a CD of code you can crack, you'll just buy an unlock code which gives you access to a server, content is downloaded as needed, deleted when it's not. It's obvious this is the way it will go, the internet made it easier for pirates to distribute the cracks, but now its going to help publishers protect their content by keeping it locked up on their own servers and limiting your access to it. It's hard to crack a game when you never get any of the code.

Not just games either, Office apps are already making the switch to online, offline is still available, but once the online versions improve enough with features and are stabile/accessible enough I bet MS Office offline will disappear, and the reason why consoles are getting internet connections isn't just for your benefit, its so they can get the same DRM as PC's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given the sheer waves of negativity against this type of DRM, and the fact that even EA's own are criticizing it:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/7415/command--conquer-4s-pc-drm-is-fail-admits-eas-jeff-green

I actually think it brings up a valid point, one of EA's own doesn't like their company's DRM "solution". Considering it is usually EA vs the world, it's interesting to see an employee post this. I think the question is, will this be a catalyst to more user-friendly DRM in the future, or even (very small chance) an offline patch considered for C&C4?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that these companies may end up either having to abandon this type of DRM, or end up going bankrupt.
Personally I sincerely hope Ubisoft DO go bankrupt for creating this kind of DRM for offline games.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-28-2010, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N:
Ubisoft are treating their own customers as pirates... Effectively guilty until proven innocent and are happily butchering their customers along with the pirates as well.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

im a customer,and thats not my viewpoint at all.

i have given you no permissions to use me as an example in your ranting.

i hereby apply a cease and desist notice.
you have no rights including me in your tin foil hat theories,so stop please.

Engioc
03-28-2010, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N
EA has entered the firing line with C&C4). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well to me this is just more proof that this kind of DRM will be in all games in the near future, so you better get used to it or you wont be playing any games. I dont like DRM, from a legit gamers point of view it is definitely bad, but from any publishers point of view its a must. DRM is here to stay so you can either stop playing games or learn to cope with it.

Ubi has it, will be in all Ubi games, EA, and I am sure all the other major publishers will do the same shortly. As I said once before on these forums I believe this kind of DRM will only get worse and even harder to crack, no longer will you buy a CD of code you can crack, you'll just buy an unlock code which gives you access to a server, content is downloaded as needed, deleted when it's not. It's obvious this is the way it will go, the internet made it easier for pirates to distribute the cracks, but now its going to help publishers protect their content by keeping it locked up on their own servers and limiting your access to it. It's hard to crack a game when you never get any of the code.

Not just games either, Office apps are already making the switch to online, offline is still available, but once the online versions improve enough with features and are stabile/accessible enough I bet MS Office offline will disappear, and the reason why consoles are getting internet connections isn't just for your benefit, its so they can get the same DRM as PC's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given the sheer waves of negativity against this type of DRM, and the fact that even EA's own are criticizing it:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/7415/command--conquer-4s-pc-drm-is-fail-admits-eas-jeff-green

I actually think it brings up a valid point, one of EA's own doesn't like their company's DRM "solution". Considering it is usually EA vs the world, it's interesting to see an employee post this. I think the question is, will this be a catalyst to more user-friendly DRM in the future, or even (very small chance) an offline patch considered for C&C4?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that these companies may end up either having to abandon this type of DRM, or end up going bankrupt.
Personally I sincerely hope Ubisoft DO go bankrupt for creating this kind of DRM for offline games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you'd best hope EA and every other game publisher goes backrupt too, since they are all going down this same DRM path. When you and others say stuff like, I'm not buying AC2 or any game that has this kind of DRM in it, is that in the future you are going to give up gaming completely because all games will have this kind of DRM. Whats more I believe music and movies will eventually go down this path too. Your future sounds kind of boring. I'm not giving up gaming just because of DRM, so far in AC2, GTA4, and every other game I've ever purchased I've never experienced problems with any form of DRM, if at some point I do experience problems I'll simply contact support and wait for a fix. Also to those experiencing problems I'd suggest you do some checking on your PC, there is obviously something wrong with it, why??.....well do we agree that all copies of AC2 are the same?? I think they are all the same code, DRM etc, hell even black/white edition are identical apart from the unlock code you get. So if they are all the same, why dont I have DRM problems and you do, with the same identical product? We both have the same DRM, only difference is our PC's. So suggests to me there is no underlying problem with the DRM itself.....

I remember a year ago when GTA4 PC was released and so many people of the GTA4.com forums complaining about how it didn't work for them. Many people I spoke to went as far as suggesting there was some major underlying problem with the game engine that was going to take months-years to fix and R* T2 wouldn't bother.........GTA4 now appears to be working quite well for most people, I am sure there are still people who cant get it to run.....but the fact its working for many gamers means there was NO major problem with the game engine and it did NOT take months-years to fix the problems GTA4 had. R*/T2 did bother to release patches, all those people who after waiting years for the game to be released, giving up after just a week or two of release, man they are so stupid/impatient and missed a great game.....same goes for AC2. It has some problems for sure, but in time they will get fixed and anyone who gives up now is crazy.

DRM is here to stay in AC2 and any game released in future, by Ubi, EA, or anyone else. So get used to it or give up gaming. Take your pick cause those are the only two options they're going to give you. I do suspect that in a year or so the DRM may get removed once the title is deemed too old and sales have dropped off enough, but your kidding yourself if you think DRM is going to be removed just a few weeks after release.

Also while I have sympathy for anyone who is genuinely experiencing problems with a legit copy of AC2, I am sure Ubi will assume the complainers to be The Noisy Few regardless of that being true or not.......SO if your really having problems, go to Ubi support, dont post and vent your frustration on here, your wasting your time. Ubi support is likely to help the people who contact them directly with proof of your legit copy (when a fix is available), and not very likely to respond to angry posts on this forum, partly just because they have no way of verifying you really bought the game.

Murcuseo
03-28-2010, 11:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
Regardless of your perspective and point of view... which is from the customers side obviously. You wouldn't just stand there while someone went through your pockets and stole from you... you'd put up a fight and thats exactly what Ubi are doing.

You have to empathise with the position their in, piracy is theft, end of.

I guarantee you if I broke into your house and stole your computer you'd hunt me to the ends of the earth if you had the means, not just stand there saying it's acceptable cause a lot of people do it!?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that definition to do to the thief what Ubisoft have done to the pirates and customers, you'd have to find the thief at a local Nightclub, pub or other public building and firebomb the entire building and shoot anyone trying to escape, whether they are guilty or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol slightly over dramatised, but still... your point doesn't even make sense xD

Putting the pirates and customers in the same category is daft, Ubi tried to give us the best service possible without sacrificing their bottom end cash flow. they're a business and need funds to survive. Its only logical they'd take the precautions necessary to safe guard that.

Your point is based on the fact everyone had the same negative experience with the DRM but that just ain't true, theres been a lot of positive feedback about it.

People who have had a negative experience will feel the need to complain, those who have a positive experience don't feel the need to do much except enjoy the game... thats why theres so much anti-DRM spam everywhere.

Anyway, you're talking about fire bombing and shooting people. I'm talking about logical decisions made to protect their income :P

Two different things lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You were talking about what if a thief had stolen something from you and how you'd resist, I gave you the real equivalent to what Ubisofts DRM does to customers.

My reply does make sense it's very simple, Ubisoft are treating their own customers as pirates... Effectively guilty until proven innocent and are happily butchering their customers along with the pirates as well.

As for 'positive feedback' on the DRM Don't make me laugh just try googling Assassin's Creed 2 DRM and you'll find most of the whole internet throwing out near pure negativity (and now EA has entered the firing line with C&C4). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fire bombing a club and shooting people isn't quite the same as someone stealing mate... you're slightly out of touch there!

As I said you're over dramatising to make your point seem more relevent than it actually is lol

Ubi have to treat everyone the same, they can't make acceptions in a situation like this...doing one thing for one person and something else for another isn't actually possible. You're a bit naive if you think otherwise.

As for the feedback, I've already explained that... when something works well people don't often feel the need to comment on it, they just enjoy it. But, when something doesn't work or they don't like it they winge and moan constantly even if they know it won't make a difference. 'Tis human nature lol


I'll give you another metaphor, if a waitor brings you your soup in a restaurant and it's exactly how you want it you may say thank you, or you might just nod and smile.... or you might say nothing. But, if its got a hair in it or maybe its cold you're gona kick up a bit of a fuss cause you didn't get what you want.

It basically comes down to people not getting what they want, it seems that this is the way PC gaming is heading so if you can't handle it or don't have the patience I suggest you buy a console or just stop playing on a PC altogether. Either that or keep moaning about it....up to you. it won't make the slightest bit of difference lol

divider0
03-28-2010, 02:47 PM
Look. I am a customer. I see this as treating me as a thief even though I have always purchased my software. I object to this form of DRM because of its potential for abuse. As other posters have mentioned, the ability of this methodology to acquire information from my system(s) without my knowledge is perverse. Others use the analogy of someone sticking their hands in Ubi's pockets and stealing. This is exactly the same only in reverse. I have no way to know what information Ubi is collecting; there is no way for me to ever verify that the information is used benignly; and there is no way for me dispute/recover/delete it from their systems once it has been gathered. In a world where information is power and has value that sounds to me like stealing.

divider0
03-28-2010, 02:56 PM
As I've mentioned in another post. There are other ways to get our point across about the intrusiveness of the DRM: one that costs Ubi money. Basically, buy copies from retailers and then return them citing the DRM policy. An idea might also be buying it online from Ubi directly then canceling the credit card transaction later (although that may leave more negative repercussions to you).

Another is to contact your local government privacy commission and state your concerns about the data that is potentially being acquired without your permission. Specifically ask that you want to see all the data that Ubi has acquired and that they have issued a sworn statement that that is all the data that they have acquired - otherwise where is the proof?

Dizlol
03-28-2010, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by divider0:
As I've mentioned in another post. There are other ways to get our point across about the intrusiveness of the DRM: one that costs Ubi money. Basically, buy copies from retailers and then return them citing the DRM policy. An idea might also be buying it online from Ubi directly then canceling the credit card transaction later (although that may leave more negative repercussions to you).

Another is to contact your local government privacy commission and state your concerns about the data that is potentially being acquired without your permission. Specifically ask that you want to see all the data that Ubi has acquired and that they have issued a sworn statement that that is all the data that they have acquired - otherwise where is the proof? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somene should do the last one and post it here, wasn't aware of Ubi being able to steal info like that from my machine.

katz_bg
03-28-2010, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
a month and still uncracked ?
...
but we should all cheer the DRM`s success. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>PoP:T2T's Starforce protection was cracked a year after the release, but it actually takes only a few weeks if working solo in between other stuff.

bokeef04
03-28-2010, 04:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N:
As for 'positive feedback' on the DRM Don't make me laugh just try googling Assassin's Creed 2 DRM and you'll find most of the whole internet throwing out near pure negativity (and now EA has entered the firing line with C&C4). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and that means we live in a sad sad world, turn on the news or open a paper and see how many 'positive events' are reported, you'll find most of them are negative, so does that mean their is nothing positive in this world?
it is human nature to focus on the negative, no-one seems to grasp the positive. Everyone keeps trying to use the excuse look at the bigger picture, well what incentive is their for Ubisoft to keep this DRM on AC2 once sales have slowed? it's better for them to patch it out so they can use the servers for new games

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JerfyNL:
Somene should do the last one and post it here, wasn't aware of Ubi being able to steal info like that from my machine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you'll find most programs that have internet connection collect data, to use Itunes for example, if you use Genius it sends your library information to apple, it claims to be anon but you need to be logged in with an apple ID to use it

Engioc
03-28-2010, 07:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bokeef04:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S.H.O.D.A.N:
As for 'positive feedback' on the DRM Don't make me laugh just try googling Assassin's Creed 2 DRM and you'll find most of the whole internet throwing out near pure negativity (and now EA has entered the firing line with C&C4). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and that means we live in a sad sad world, turn on the news or open a paper and see how many 'positive events' are reported, you'll find most of them are negative, so does that mean their is nothing positive in this world?
it is human nature to focus on the negative, no-one seems to grasp the positive. Everyone keeps trying to use the excuse look at the bigger picture, well what incentive is their for Ubisoft to keep this DRM on AC2 once sales have slowed? it's better for them to patch it out so they can use the servers for new games

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JerfyNL:
Somene should do the last one and post it here, wasn't aware of Ubi being able to steal info like that from my machine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you'll find most programs that have internet connection collect data, to use Itunes for example, if you use Genius it sends your library information to apple, it claims to be anon but you need to be logged in with an apple ID to use it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly, while I dont like the idea of software sending info back to its maker without me knowing what info it sends, this is quite common. Google toolbar, yahoo toolbar and any other helpful programs like these are constantly sending data back, one reason I refuse to use any of them. Yes there is a potential for this kind of DRM to be abused and information to be collected without your knowledge but I'm not going to allow that to stop me from gaming, and that's my point here.

Just to make it clear......I do NOT support DRM, I would prefer we lived in a world without DRM on anything we buy, but I'd also prefer there were no pirates, but while there are pirates there will always be DRM to attempt to stop them........So no I dont support DRM, I wish it could be removed, but the reality is that's not going to happen.........and that is my whole point.

It is clear that the entire gaming industry is heading in this direction, Ubi have done it and despite the problems, EA still went ahead with is DRM. I suspect that most of the other major publisher will also push ahead with their plans to implement similar systems. For now this IS the way things are going so you better get used to it. Sure maybe one of the big name publishers might decide to be the one who doesn't and try to be different and win some new customers out of this but I'd say the majority will surely implement this same system. Some may hold off a little longer and wait until they believe these problems have been sorted out, net connections are more stable, faster etc, their servers can stay up without the problems too.....Sooner or later though they will all have this style of DRM......

so again, your choices will be, learn to live with DRM, or stop gaming. Dislike DRM, too bad they are going to put it on all games anyway.

Take a look at the movie industry and the whole DVD region code BS. Its a dumb system and these days we all know how to get around it....but this was their attempt at forcing people to buy their movies from one region, but despite the fact many people voiced opposition to this scheme before DVDs became common, we got it anyway and they didn't give a toss about what you and I wanted. Did this annoying feature stop people buy DVDs, no, people just learned to live with this and found ways to get around it. Buy legit games and keep the receipts and you should not have any problems. If you feel its an invasion of your privacy, then I hope your not using many of the other programs that are also collection your private info, but I bet you are. Hopefully at some point lawmakers will step in and put some laws around this kind of thing so any legit publisher will ensure they are not collection info they shouldn't, bit like the fuss that was made over Intel P3 with its unique number and ability to talk back to intel, they were forced to add a feature to turn it off.

Riiku2
03-29-2010, 01:11 AM
I'm all fine with this impenetrable DRM things as long as 2 things are followed:

1) This doesnt cause issuies with legal buyers unable to play

2) Localisation teams in other countrys doing a good job and alter the prices of games accordinlgy to the contry. For example, here in Russia, almost no one would buy AC2 for $57 it is sold on amazon. Instead, we have perfectly legal version for $15 in our stores.

The games that doesnt get localised we have no choice but to pirate

Gekkibi
03-29-2010, 02:19 AM
I post this here just because I want you to know what I think about this...

Is it because they want to stop piracy?
Ubisoft says that their DRM hasn't been cracked.
Protesters says that DRM has already been cracked.

Which one is true? Ubisoft can't admit DRM has been cracked and the murky underground sites aren't reliable sources of information. The only way is to test it. Tests made by an anonymous Belgian on Sil- [CENSORED to respect the forum rules]

Nothing is impossible to crack: It is always a matter of time. And time is what the crackers have. Ubisoft must have known that it doesn't prevent piracy in the long run. But does it have to prevent piracy to make profit? What if their main goal was to postpone the inevitable fact that it is going to get cracked? Large amount of sales comes from the early stage sales and if it is possible to prevent illegal copying of the game even for couple of days could it be profitable?

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Sales of the game must compensate the lost sales discontent customers cause.

Is it because they want to have control over the customers?
Ubisoft says that they will not use DRM to prevent players from playing the game if they quit supporting it.
Protesters says that they will use DRM against the customers so they are forced to buy newer games.

Which one is true? At the moment there haven't been any cases where Ubisoft has (Or hasn't) used these patches.

Ubisoft could use DRM to prevent customers for playing an old game and thus forcing them to buy the latest game in any franchise. The customers have to trust Ubisoft that they will release the patch if they quit supporting the game.

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Sales of the forced new game must compensate the lost sales discontent customers cause.

Is it because they want the customers to switch to consoles?
Ubisoft says that they will not abandon the PC games market.
Protesters says that they will force the PC gamers to the console markets.

Which one is true? Impossible to say at the moment.

By implementing DRM to their games, Ubisoft can force customers towards the console markets. Angering some of the customers isn't profitable in the long run.

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Sales of the console game must compensate the lost sales discontent customers cause.

Is it because they want to sell by-products in Uplay?
Ubisoft says that the customers can get the extra content by using Uplay points, earned by playing the games.
Protesters says that in the future they will sell the extra contents in the Uplay instead of giving them to the dedicated gamers.

Which one is true? Impossible to say at the moment. Probably something in between.

To be able to play any game protected by DRM, the customer is required to register a Ubisoft account, thus binding every customer to Uplay. Ubisoft has announced one of the future Uplay features, the online shop.

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Sales of the extra content must compensate the investment they put into DRM.

Is it because they want to spy on customers?
Ubisoft says that they will not use DRM to spy what their customers are doing.
Protesters says that they will use DRM to compile statistics on what, where when the customers are playing.

Which one is true? At the moment there isn't any proof Ubisoft has (Or hasn't) compiled any statistics concerning customer privacy.

Ubisoft could use DRM to make statistics concerning customer behaviour to optimise marketing. Customers have to trust that Ubisoft will not compromise their privacy.

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Gained profit from the optimised marketing must compensate the investment they put into DRM.

Is it because they want to prevent the selling of used games?
Ubisoft says that it is not possible to resell the games.
Most of the protesters haven't even talked about this. Why not?

What do they accomplish by prevening the possibility to resell their games? The same games are being bought and sold over and over again, and none of the profit goes to Ubisoft. Lets compare this to piracy... The same games are being downloaded and uploaded over and over again, and none of the profit goes to Ubisoft. Can you see the resemblance? People are playing and Ubisoft is not making any money from it.

In the first quarter of 2008 EB made sales worth of 234 million USD from used games sales (49.7% of their turnover). If the three other quarters would be the same the annual sales would be 936 million USD. If we assume that the average price of a used game is 30 USD that is 31.2 million sold games per year. And that is 31.2 million games sold where the industry didn't see a single penny.

PC game piracy is costing the industry around 200 million USD per year. This varies alot depending from the source. According to this the gaming industry loses more money from used games sales than from piracy!

So my question is: Why stop piracy when you can more easily stop used games sales?

The most common question concerning Ubisofts OSP DRM is: Who lost? Ubisoft or the pirates? I would say we, the customers...

Murcuseo
03-29-2010, 03:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
I post this here just because I want you to know what I think about this...

Is it because they want to stop piracy?
Ubisoft says that their DRM hasn't been cracked.
Protesters says that DRM has already been cracked.

Which one is true? Ubisoft can't admit DRM has been cracked and the murky underground sites aren't reliable sources of information. The only way is to test it. Tests made by an anonymous Belgian on Sil- [CENSORED to respect the forum rules]

Nothing is impossible to crack: It is always a matter of time. And time is what the crackers have. Ubisoft must have known that it doesn't prevent piracy in the long run. But does it have to prevent piracy to make profit? What if their main goal was to postpone the inevitable fact that it is going to get cracked? Large amount of sales comes from the early stage sales and if it is possible to prevent illegal copying of the game even for couple of days could it be profitable?

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Sales of the game must compensate the lost sales discontent customers cause.

Is it because they want to have control over the customers?
Ubisoft says that they will not use DRM to prevent players from playing the game if they quit supporting it.
Protesters says that they will use DRM against the customers so they are forced to buy newer games.

Which one is true? At the moment there haven't been any cases where Ubisoft has (Or hasn't) used these patches.

Ubisoft could use DRM to prevent customers for playing an old game and thus forcing them to buy the latest game in any franchise. The customers have to trust Ubisoft that they will release the patch if they quit supporting the game.

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Sales of the forced new game must compensate the lost sales discontent customers cause.

Is it because they want the customers to switch to consoles?
Ubisoft says that they will not abandon the PC games market.
Protesters says that they will force the PC gamers to the console markets.

Which one is true? Impossible to say at the moment.

By implementing DRM to their games, Ubisoft can force customers towards the console markets. Angering some of the customers isn't profitable in the long run.

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Sales of the console game must compensate the lost sales discontent customers cause.

Is it because they want to sell by-products in Uplay?
Ubisoft says that the customers can get the extra content by using Uplay points, earned by playing the games.
Protesters says that in the future they will sell the extra contents in the Uplay instead of giving them to the dedicated gamers.

Which one is true? Impossible to say at the moment. Probably something in between.

To be able to play any game protected by DRM, the customer is required to register a Ubisoft account, thus binding every customer to Uplay. Ubisoft has announced one of the future Uplay features, the online shop.

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Sales of the extra content must compensate the investment they put into DRM.

Is it because they want to spy on customers?
Ubisoft says that they will not use DRM to spy what their customers are doing.
Protesters says that they will use DRM to compile statistics on what, where when the customers are playing.

Which one is true? At the moment there isn't any proof Ubisoft has (Or hasn't) compiled any statistics concerning customer privacy.

Ubisoft could use DRM to make statistics concerning customer behaviour to optimise marketing. Customers have to trust that Ubisoft will not compromise their privacy.

Conclusion: Plausible, but not necessarily the main purpose. Gained profit from the optimised marketing must compensate the investment they put into DRM.

Is it because they want to prevent the selling of used games?
Ubisoft says that it is not possible to resell the games.
Most of the protesters haven't even talked about this. Why not?

What do they accomplish by prevening the possibility to resell their games? The same games are being bought and sold over and over again, and none of the profit goes to Ubisoft. Lets compare this to piracy... The same games are being downloaded and uploaded over and over again, and none of the profit goes to Ubisoft. Can you see the resemblance? People are playing and Ubisoft is not making any money from it.

In the first quarter of 2008 EB made sales worth of 234 million USD from used games sales (49.7% of their turnover). If the three other quarters would be the same the annual sales would be 936 million USD. If we assume that the average price of a used game is 30 USD that is 31.2 million sold games per year. And that is 31.2 million games sold where the industry didn't see a single penny.

PC game piracy is costing the industry around 200 million USD per year. This varies alot depending from the source. According to this the gaming industry loses more money from used games sales than from piracy!

So my question is: Why stop piracy when you can more easily stop used games sales?

The most common question concerning Ubisofts OSP DRM is: Who lost? Ubisoft or the pirates? I would say we, the customers... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you actually back any of that with evidence?

That whole post is nothing but specualtion and guessing... theres no actual proof presented with it. If you could back up some of the things you suggest with proof then it would be a worthwhile addition to the discussion!!

This is what annoys me about this whole DRM/Ubi/pirates debate... noone has any proof of anything lol


Show me the cracked game, show me some legit stats that say Ubi has lost out on sales because of this, show me proof that Ubi plan to use the DRM to spy on people (paranoia...),show me proof of Ubi planning to sell future content on Uplay... I mean for feck sake.

Some of these things could possibly be true and if you can actually back them up with evidence I'll hold my hands up, but.... until then stop the rumor mill and actaully base your argument on things you can prove....

blitz32
03-29-2010, 04:25 AM
I can't offer any stats that say Ubi has lost sales because of this, but only say that they have lost mine and also that of the majority of the CS clan I'm in. As a matter of fact only 1 member out of about 100+ (including commies)has bought a copy! Usually with any big release at least 10% of the clan purchase it and something like L4D2 almost 30% did.

Also stats wouldn't be that easily obtained would they. If you said ok in the first month of AC1 we sold so many copies and in the first month of AC2 we sold this amount of copies , well AC2 will show higher sales figures because it's a sequel and better advertised. Ubi would then say 'Well the DRM was a success then' which wouldn't be 100% right.

Gekkibi
03-29-2010, 05:27 AM
@Robson19822009

Back what up with evidence? My opinions? Of course, here: I hearby vow these are my opinions. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It is kind of impossible to get some proof why Ubisoft put DRM to the games unless you eavesdrop a board meeting. I represented what MIGHT be their POSSIBLE reason to put it, not why they put it. I did it so that it can open some new discussion (Not just "This sucks, I have problems with it", "It is great because it stops piracy", "No it doesn't", "Yes it doeS").

Because of the forum rules I will not show you or point where to find a working crack. And personally, I don't even know where to find it.

I will continue my research and try to find some proof to back up my story (And then I will post it as a fact, not just my thoughts & speculations).

Murcuseo
03-29-2010, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blitz32:
I can't offer any stats that say Ubi has lost sales because of this, but only say that they have lost mine and also that of the majority of the CS clan I'm in. As a matter of fact only 1 member out of about 100+ (including commies)has bought a copy! Usually with any big release at least 10% of the clan purchase it and something like L4D2 almost 30% did.

Also stats wouldn't be that easily obtained would they. If you said ok in the first month of AC1 we sold so many copies and in the first month of AC2 we sold this amount of copies , well AC2 will show higher sales figures because it's a sequel and better advertised. Ubi would then say 'Well the DRM was a success then' which wouldn't be 100% right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats exactly my point, without any proof people base their opinions on personal experience... the rest if just guessing and speculation.

Just because your clan didn't buy the game doesn't mean to say everyone else done the same thing. I get your point though there is a certain market Ubisoft might have lost out on but as you said... theres no way of proving or disproving anything at the moment.

It's fairly obvious that the DRM wasn't 100% successful and I doubt Ubisoft themselves would ever say that, in fact they made an admission that it hadn't worked that well and handed out compensation to help resolve it.

Anyway, again people are specualting on something that might never happen and basing their responses on personal opinions rather than facts lol


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
@Robson19822009

Back what up with evidence? My opinions? Of course, here: I hearby vow these are my opinions. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It is kind of impossible to get some proof why Ubisoft put DRM to the games unless you eavesdrop a board meeting. I represented what MIGHT be their POSSIBLE reason to put it, not why they put it. I did it so that it can open some new discussion (Not just "This sucks, I have problems with it", "It is great because it stops piracy", "No it doesn't", "Yes it doeS").

Because of the forum rules I will not show you or point where to find a working crack. And personally, I don't even know where to find it.

I will continue my research and try to find some proof to back up my story (And then I will post it as a fact, not just my thoughts & speculations). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aye, backing up your opinions with evidence would certainly make a stronger argument than just speculating and guessing on things with no proof... thats the way a discussion can be successful and worthwhile.

If people just sit and post their opinions based on their own personal experience it just ends up being a pointless ****ing contest that literally achieves nothing.

As I've said if anyone on here can present some cold hard facts that are legit I will hold my hands up and concede the point. Until that actually happens I see all posts that involve specualtion and guess work as utter rubbish and unhelpful, not only to everyone on the forum but the community in general.

It just feeds the fire, which I suppose is the whole point for some people http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Heelflip
03-29-2010, 06:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:

Is it because they want to prevent the selling of used games?
Ubisoft says that it is not possible to resell the games.
Most of the protesters haven't even talked about this. Why not?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I guess you weren't there. The "motivational speech" for the attacks by Russians on their forum was about second-hand market. Too bad they deleted that mega thread.
Go on piratebay, type "attack ubi", open "dos attack on ubi part 2" and check the comments, some attackers were saying that all along. There is even more info in "part 1" of the two attack torrent pages, but I think you're too lazy to read through all that text. Otherwise you'd know at least a little bit more about the subject. Don't pretend you have a clear idea of what was really going on if you weren't researching things when they were actually happening.

EDIT: Found the "motivational speech"!!!

http://pastebin.com/yM5BHzVt

Don't get me wrong, I've been saying all along that if this new DRM means more quality games for PC, I support it. But there are some good points in the "speech".

Gekkibi
03-29-2010, 06:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Heelflip:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:

Is it because they want to prevent the selling of used games?
Ubisoft says that it is not possible to resell the games.
Most of the protesters haven't even talked about this. Why not?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I guess you weren't there. The whole "motivational speech" for the attacks by Russians on their forum was about second-hand market. Too bad they deleted that mega thread.
Go on piratebay, type "attack ubi", open "dos attack on ubi part 2" and check the comments, some attackers were saying that all along. There is even more info in "part 1" of the two attack torrent pages, but I think you're too lazy to read through all that text. Otherwise you'd know at least a little bit more about the subject. Don't pretend you have a clear idea of what was really going on if you weren't researching things when they were actually happening. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wasn't able to find that during the research I did couple of days ago. And can't use TPB because I don't even have torrent application...

Can you send it to me via private message?

Engioc
03-29-2010, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
@Robson19822009

Back what up with evidence? My opinions? Of course, here: I hearby vow these are my opinions. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It is kind of impossible to get some proof why Ubisoft put DRM to the games unless you eavesdrop a board meeting. I represented what MIGHT be their POSSIBLE reason to put it, not why they put it. I did it so that it can open some new discussion (Not just "This sucks, I have problems with it", "It is great because it stops piracy", "No it doesn't", "Yes it doeS").

Because of the forum rules I will not show you or point where to find a working crack. And personally, I don't even know where to find it.

I will continue my research and try to find some proof to back up my story (And then I will post it as a fact, not just my thoughts & speculations). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You pose the question why Ubi put DRM in AC2??? What a dumb question, isn't it obvious why Ubi, EA, Codemasters, TakeTwo, Activision, Atari, etc etc put DRM in their games........sure they don't prevent piracy, but are an attempt at minimising piracy and making some people think twice about the ease of piracy as opposed to buying.

What I really don't understand is how anybody can expect them NOT to put DRM in. I've been playing games since 1982 and its been a long time since I last saw a game released without some form of copy protection.

Murcuseo
03-29-2010, 07:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Heelflip:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:

Is it because they want to prevent the selling of used games?
Ubisoft says that it is not possible to resell the games.
Most of the protesters haven't even talked about this. Why not?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I guess you weren't there. The "motivational speech" for the attacks by Russians on their forum was about second-hand market. Too bad they deleted that mega thread.
Go on piratebay, type "attack ubi", open "dos attack on ubi part 2" and check the comments, some attackers were saying that all along. There is even more info in "part 1" of the two attack torrent pages, but I think you're too lazy to read through all that text. Otherwise you'd know at least a little bit more about the subject. Don't pretend you have a clear idea of what was really going on if you weren't researching things when they were actually happening.

EDIT: Found the "motivational speech"!!!

http://pastebin.com/yM5BHzVt

Don't get me wrong, I've been saying all along that if this new DRM means more quality games for PC, I support it. But there are some good points in the "speech". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was an interesting read, but again a lot of that argument was based on speculation... basically what he's doing is taking the worst possible outcome from what Ubisoft are doing and using that as ammunition to fight his cause.

I really wish there was legitimate information out there that could clear all of this up but unfortunately, if it is out there... I can't find it lol

Gekkibi
03-29-2010, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
What I really don't understand is how anybody can expect them NOT to put DRM in. I've been playing games since 1982 and its been a long time since I last saw a game released without some form of copy protection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. Why shouldn't they put DRM? They shouldn't! The question should be: Why shouldn't they put a DRM what doesn't affect paying customers in any way?

And I have also got my fair share of pre-NES games...

markt50
03-29-2010, 07:13 AM
Much like the 'War on Terror' I think this is a war that cannot be won.

Oh sure, Ubisoft will be claiming victory over the pirates for now, as they stand upon the mountain of bodies that were their customers, can they feel proud in this fleeting moment of history ?. As they trample over basic consumer rights in an effort to engage the enemy in battle, Ubisoft decided that any collatoral damage was worth it, customers be damned those stinking pirates needed to be taught a lesson, right ?

I suspect the sad truth is that this effort has cost them a lot of money. Time will only tell how things have worked out, but the dramatic price cuts of AC2, SH5 and even Settlers 7 so close to release, combined with the fact that they are doing nothing special in the charts, well it all points to a victory over the pirates in terms of technology, a disaster in terms of commercial sales, and has cost them dearly in terms of customer retention, loyalty, PR image etc.

I honestly thought that any company would have to work long and hard to become as hated as EA and Activision, well Ubisoft proved me wrong, they managed it with a single flick of a switch the day they turned this system on.

When the high ups at Ubisoft actually sit down, some time from now, and they actually calculate how much this has cost them, I predict we will see a very quiet and discrete 'killing off' of this DRM system followed by a PR campaign to show the customers that they have changed there ways and what nice chaps they are now, unfortunately it could take a year or two. We saw the exact same thing with EA and SecuROM, it's all a matter of how long they are prepared to sit there and watch money evapourate before admitting to what a complete and epic failure this DRM system is (from a customer and sales perspective).

SagittariusArc
03-29-2010, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by markt50:
Much like the 'War on Terror' I think this is a war that cannot be won.

Oh sure, Ubisoft will be claiming victory over the pirates for now, as they stand upon the mountain of bodies that were their customers, can they feel proud in this fleeting moment of vistory ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL this is brilliant. If only I had thought of this metaphor! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Some artist should do a sketch about this: Ubisoft standing on a mountain of drmed-customers! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Engioc
03-29-2010, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
What I really don't understand is how anybody can expect them NOT to put DRM in. I've been playing games since 1982 and its been a long time since I last saw a game released without some form of copy protection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. Why shouldn't they put DRM? They shouldn't! The question should be: Why shouldn't they put a DRM what doesn't affect paying customers in any way?

And I have also got my fair share of pre-NES games... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Answer to that is they cannot, that kind of DRM has not yet been developed, all the current and previous forms of copy protection at least for PC's have had problems where legit customers were unable to play the game, not just this new online DRM. DRM in all forms has always been a problem, but I dont expect DRM to disappear until the pirates do, thats all really.

Other point I try to make is, unlike a few other people here I'm not prepared to make statements that I'm basically prepared to give up gaming simply because I dislike DRM. I dont like DRM, but its not like we are being given a choice here. You'll buy games with DRM, or you wont get any games, because of course its not just Ubi that are implementing this new style of DRM, they are all doing it.

So in the end I'm just not sure this discussion achieves anything, Ubi dont appear to be in any hurry to remove DRM despite its problems. I suspect EA will be much the same and I doubt one dissenting employee is going to make much difference.

Gekkibi
03-29-2010, 08:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
...they are all doing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No they aren't. For example Bohemia Interactive removed copy protection from Arma 2. And their FADE never affected me, a customer, in any way. Can't say the same for OSP or Star Force (Both used by Ubisoft).

Barrowner
03-29-2010, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
...they are all doing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No they aren't. For example Bohemia Interactive removed copy protection from Arma 2. And their FADE never affected me, a customer, in any way. Can't say the same for OSP or Star Force (Both used by Ubisoft). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That was last summer. Until now the the software developers have had only almost useless DRMs available. With often the games being cracked before buyers could play it.

Now the situation is different. Ubi's solution cannot be broken before the release date since there are contents missing from the discs. Even when these contents become available it is no longer possible to do a quick, complete crack. Maybe one can do a *rip* by trying to get every downloadable content from the server. But if done right with encryption and randomization of required contents, then this becomes an extremely boring and uncertain toil with no guarantee that one ever gets everything. Even if by a Herculean effort one game gets ripped, then all other games will still be protected and requre the same effort.

I am sure that most independent developers who do not yet have a contract for future games are now asking Ubi to be their publisher. Which means a lot of money in the future for Ubi. Everyone else will jump on the bandwagon like EA is already attempting.

Gekkibi
03-29-2010, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
That was last summer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was this spring when they removed the copy protection.

I have nothing against any kind of DRM as long as it doesn't cause my headaches. So far Ubisofts OSP have caused -alot. Same thing with Star Force. It is a trend nowadays that the customers have to suffer (Exaggerated situation).

This is why we can't have nice things.

Barrowner
03-29-2010, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
I have nothing against any kind of DRM as long as it doesn't cause my headaches. So far Ubisofts OSP have caused -alot. Same thing with Star Force. It is a trend nowadays that the customers have to suffer (Exaggerated situation).

This is why we can't have nice things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why we have this situation is due to pirates. If there were no pirates then there would be no need for DRMs.

Does this DRM cause more problems than usual? Who knows. There are a lot of whiners who think pirating is a basic human right and write false complaints and reviews without owning the game.

Maybe there are bugs since this is a new protection. But there is no intrinsic reason this DRM should cause more probem than an online mulitplayer game with downloadable content such as World of Warcraft.

Gekkibi
03-29-2010, 12:31 PM
World of Warcraft is a multiplayer game, so it requires constant Internet connection. In other hand, Assassin's Creed II is singleplayer-only and Silent Hunter 5 and soon-to-be-released Splinter Cell: Conviction has singleplayer campaign with multiplayer function.

You can't compere these two.

Barrowner
03-29-2010, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
World of Warcraft is a multiplayer game, so it requires constant Internet connection. In other hand, Assassin's Creed II is singleplayer-only and Silent Hunter 5 and soon-to-be-released Splinter Cell: Conviction has singleplayer campaign with multiplayer function.

You can't compere these two. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes I can. There is no intrinsic reason this DRM using downloadable content should cause more probems than an online multiplayer game with downloadable content. So even if Ubis DRM now have many initial bugs, which may or may not be true, there is no intinsic reason that this should be the case in the future.

Gekkibi
03-29-2010, 12:44 PM
Lets just say that I am optimistic that majority of the games I play will not use this kind of DRM if they are not 100% multiplayer games. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Barrowner
03-29-2010, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
Lets just say that I am optimistic that majority of the games I play will not use this kind of DRM if they are not 100% multiplayer games. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are of course free to buy what you want.

I hope for a return to the days when PC single player games were not almost always poor console ports appearing many months after their console version. If at all. Thanks for that pirates!

Hopefully this DRM can lead to paying PC gamers again getting new, original, dazzling PC games using the full power of the PC gaming hardware.

cobretti1818
03-29-2010, 05:24 PM
Ok Ubi. If this DRM of yours is truely uncrackable, then well done. I will embrace this DRM, and I am sure others will come to accept if it. After all, it is much better than the half-arsed limited activation system trialed a few times.

But, in return, we would like a few things. We want the return of the PC exclusive, we want any 'ports' to be optimised for PC, including higher textures, proper mouse support and fully customisable graphic settings, and having to use your brain once in a while during a game is not a crime, despite what you may have heard from our console breathren.

If you want us to swallow this DRM, then the above would make things just a little easier.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-29-2010, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cobretti1818:
Ok Ubi. If this DRM of yours is truely uncrackable, then well done. I will embrace this DRM, and I am sure others will come to accept if it. After all, it is much better than the half-arsed limited activation system trialed a few times.

But, in return, we would like a few things. We want the return of the PC exclusive, we want any 'ports' to be optimised for PC, including higher textures, proper mouse support and fully customisable graphic settings, and having to use your brain once in a while during a game is not a crime, despite what you may have heard from our console breathren.

If you want us to swallow this DRM, then the above would make things just a little easier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i`m half a supporter of yours now.

i want both DRM and the pc versions back,then port them to console.
the porting of console to pc is a failure,ditch it.

Riiku2
03-29-2010, 11:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
But, in return, we would like a few things. We want the return of the PC exclusive, we want any 'ports' to be optimised for PC, including higher textures, proper mouse support and fully customisable graphic settings, and having to use your brain once in a while during a game is not a crime, despite what you may have heard from our console breathren.

If you want us to swallow this DRM, then the above would make things just a little easier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to live with the fact that most of the profit from the game comes from console players. So the balance of effort one have to put into porting and profit that should bring is not always clear, and not worth taking a risk for.

Engioc
03-30-2010, 03:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
...they are all doing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No they aren't. For example Bohemia Interactive removed copy protection from Arma 2. And their FADE never affected me, a customer, in any way. Can't say the same for OSP or Star Force (Both used by Ubisoft). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your right and I'm a fan of ArmA 2 and glad they did remove it, but unfortunately from what I see they are one of the few companies not sticking with DRM, and to be honest I believe that is more to do with their size than anything else.

The ALL I am referring are the big guys, Ubisoft, EA, Codemasters, Activision, Atari, TakeTwo, and maybe one of two others I cant think of right now....I'd be very surprised if all those companies didn't implement a similar system to what Ubi and now EA have done.

Aside from ArmA 2 I know of several other games where the DRM was removed after a certain amount of time, but even with most of these games it was not removed just a few weeks after the release. As I said before it would not surprise me if Ubi do eventually remove DRM, but it wont be so soon after release.

Add to that the fact the Settlers 7 has now been released with the same DRM in it, so it doesn't appear that Ubi have been worrying too much over the problems with AC2.

Also older DRM systems like the one used in ArmA 2 are much more easily cracked, offline vs online DRM makes a big difference. Its easy to crack a game when you have a CD/DVD with all the code for you to play around with. That doesn't work so well in online DRM because there is a server you also need to somehow crack. Ubi have gone for what they believe is the best, newest solution to piracy and probably knew there would be some problems with it, but that just means its no different to SecureRom, Tages or any of the other previous DRM systems. So, online DRM offers a better chance of protecting their game from piracy (not impossible to crack but harder) and has the same problems as all other DRM systems, I cant see any reason why Ubi and EA wouldn't use this new system, the problems are the same.

So nothing has really changed except a better chance of stopping piracy than previous methods.

Barrowner
03-30-2010, 03:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Riiku2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
But, in return, we would like a few things. We want the return of the PC exclusive, we want any 'ports' to be optimised for PC, including higher textures, proper mouse support and fully customisable graphic settings, and having to use your brain once in a while during a game is not a crime, despite what you may have heard from our console breathren.

If you want us to swallow this DRM, then the above would make things just a little easier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to live with the fact that most of the profit from the game comes from console players. So the balance of effort one have to put into porting and profit that should bring is not always clear, and not worth taking a risk for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you have to live with it? Well, certainly today since PC sales are low due to piracy. With many times even a port being avoided because of this and the risk that piracy of a PC version will also reduce console sales.

But PC sales are not low for games which cannot be cracked such as massive multiplayer ones. So there is every reason to expect much greater PC sales if piracy could be substantially reduced. Hopefully when most of the industy has adopted DRMs like Ubisoft, then we will a renaissance in PC gaming.

Engioc
03-30-2010, 04:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
...they are all doing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No they aren't. For example Bohemia Interactive removed copy protection from Arma 2. And their FADE never affected me, a customer, in any way. Can't say the same for OSP or Star Force (Both used by Ubisoft). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can I ask one seriously off topic question.......Does that mean your a fan of ArmA 2? or would you prefer to be playing a COD or other similar shooters?

I do like what Bohemia have done, both in terms of the game and yes it is nice too see small developers making good games cause they do often have less DRM and remove it.

Gekkibi
03-30-2010, 09:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
Can I ask one seriously off topic question.......Does that mean your a fan of ArmA 2? or would you prefer to be playing a COD or other similar shooters?

I do like what Bohemia have done, both in terms of the game and yes it is nice too see small developers making good games cause they do often have less DRM and remove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lets just say that I don't play mindless shoot'em'ups. CoD and Arma 2 in't in the same genre (And neither is Triplane Turmoil and Xplane).

Back to topic...
Lets put a crappy example: Airport security. All kind of measures are used to prevent explosives to be smuggled on board: Including any kind of fluids, gases and so on. Ok, great! This means that nobody can destroy the airplane. Job well done.

What about the customers? Ok, so you can't have this and that and whats not in your luggage. Some of the restrictions are really ridiculous and are actually hampering the customers. And sometimes if you (accidentally) try to bring something illegal to the airplane they might as well cancel your flight. And even if you don't bring anything illegal they can still strip you naked and compromise your privacy.

Sniper_Doc
03-30-2010, 11:58 AM
I think people are forgetting that there can be less intrusive solutions such as Bohemia's FADE protection which was present in ARMA2.

This DRM dictates when, where, and how I play a game I paid for. That... is not a part of the sale contract.

I hope they lose loads of money on future sales. They lost mine.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-30-2010, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DocSniper:
This DRM dictates when, where, and how I play a game I paid for. That... is not a part of the sale contract.

I hope they lose loads of money on future sales. They lost mine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

too true..

it dictated to me i play at home,
near a net connection,
in my comfy recliner,
a few feet from the kitchen snacks n drinks,
in the warm.

bloody drm ruining my life.

SagittariusArc
03-30-2010, 01:30 PM
I REALLY need to note down all of the names of the "happy players" in here and then the next time the servers go offline I need to PM all making fun of them. Oh what a joy it would be.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Sniper_Doc
03-30-2010, 01:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
too true..

it dictated to me i play at home,
near a net connection,
in my comfy recliner,
a few feet from the kitchen snacks n drinks,
in the warm.

bloody drm ruining my life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Begone Troll!

iambizarro
03-30-2010, 02:25 PM
I haven't read the entire thread, so, sorry if what I'm saying has already been said.

But Ubisoft created a nifty way to keep the pirates (along with some of their customers) at bay (pun intended) with an interesting way to "protect their games."

A way that hasn't necessarily been used before on single player games.
A way that requires an internet connection. A way that makes it seem that you will always be paying a monthly fee for playing the game, even if the fees don't go to Ubisoft.
You are only renting it. Once you stop paying the monthly fee (internet bill) then you can't play the game anymore.
And don't get all righteous about everyone having constant internet connections. That only makes you look like a fool.

So as of right now, yes they are "winning" the battle against piracy, but the only casualties so far are the legit customers who wanted to support Ubisoft. The people they are attacking are the people who wouldn't buy the game in the first place.
One downloaded copy does not equal one sale.
It never has and it never will.

So it sounds like I'm taking cheap shots at Ubisoft, but at this point it's three parties faults. Ubisoft, pirates, and consumers.

Ubisoft created it in order to protect their product (or second hand sales, who knows I'm not a mind reader), but have alienated anyone who has poor or no internet. Or if their DRM servers go down, DDOS, etc. then no one gets to play.

I have never been to a company / country, etc. that has 100 percent uptime on their internet connection. Ubisofts DRM servers are no exception. It is impossible. Hardware breaks, software breaks, power outages, things happen.

Pirates (may or may not have) pushed Ubisoft to create this DRM. I say may or may not have, because it's impossible to know what Ubisoft would do if NO ONE pirated a game. Pirates are just the easiest group to point a finger at. If no one pirated a game, they still may have created it to stop second hand sales completely, or they may have included ZERO DRM. Who knows.

And the consumers. Yes, the consumers. The consumers are the group that still bought the game, knowing that it had this garbage built into it. You wanted to support Ubisoft, and with good reason, they have some awesome games. But you supported a horrible DRM system, by paying for it with your own hard earned cash.

By supporting a system such as this, you are telling Ubisoft it works. Even if technically, it doesn't. All the bigwigs probably see now are that there is no working crack, and pirates can't play the game. That means a lot to a software company. They see that as a win.

But all it takes is one person out of the several billion on earth to find a way through this. Then the floodgates will open, and people will be able to play a game without paying for it. With a few changes to the crack, other games using this will be cracked too.

For most games, a lot of the sales are within the first few months, and if they can protect that, then they get a lot of their usually hard earned money. But putting a system up like this, and alienating your paying consumers, is just begging people to break it.

Finally, if you, the paying consumers, want this to change, then you will need a bit of self-control and don't buy the frickin game. Complaining on the forum is only getting minimal attention. And the ones who deal with it mostly are the people on the front lines, the mods.

Gaming is not mandatory to human survival. If you want it to stop, then when AC3 comes out with DRM++ that requires a kidney, a satellite connection to the Ubisoft headquarters, and a rental agreement, along with the permanent internet connection, then don't buy it. No matter how shiny and pretty it is, practice the self-control you should have and don't buy it.

franko_faaip
03-30-2010, 04:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Gaming is not mandatory to human survival. If you want it to stop, then when AC3 comes out with DRM++ that requires a kidney, a satellite connection to the Ubisoft headquarters, and a rental agreement, along with the permanent internet connection, then don't buy it. No matter how shiny and pretty it is, practice the self-control you should have anddon't buy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You feed the drm monster by buying it, that's what a lot of people don't realize

Gekkibi
03-30-2010, 04:25 PM
Indeed. I vote with my wallet and not buying Silent Hunter 5 (Must be patched also) or Splinter Cell: Conviction... Or any other game with this DRM, until they remove it!

The same day they remove it I will buy at least one game that used the DRM (Probably Splinter Cell: Conviction, but depends which other games are available... Lets hope Rainbow Six a'la III).

Barrowner
03-30-2010, 10:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by franko_faaip:
You feed the drm monster by buying it, that's what a lot of people don't realize </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are killing the PC solo player game industry by not having an effective DRM. Now often reduced to cheap ports of console games many months after their console versions and not optimized for PC hardware. At best, unfortunately often very good games are not even ported since companies are afraid PC piracy will reduce console sales.

Again, there is no intrinsic reason this form of DRM with downloadable content should have more problems than a massive mulitplayer game with downloadable content.

Zenith0053
03-31-2010, 02:41 AM
Ubisoft, please get rid of your intrusive and ineffective DRM so that I can buy your games! I really like your games, I don't want to stop buying them. I would have already bought AC2 if you hadn't gone with this bull-headed strategy. I don't want to go without Ezio and Sam Fisher and the Prince and the rest, but there are other games I can spend money on, and other things I can do with my time. Do us both a favor and kill this DRM.

Gekkibi
03-31-2010, 03:02 AM
I would say "Let them quit making games for PC, It's their loss. Someone else will take their place. Bye bye, and don't let the door hit you".

Most of the Ubisoft games are meant for youngsters. Some interests me, but I can live without them.

Engioc
03-31-2010, 03:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
Can I ask one seriously off topic question.......Does that mean your a fan of ArmA 2? or would you prefer to be playing a COD or other similar shooters?

I do like what Bohemia have done, both in terms of the game and yes it is nice too see small developers making good games cause they do often have less DRM and remove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lets just say that I don't play mindless shoot'em'ups. CoD and Arma 2 in't in the same genre (And neither is Triplane Turmoil and Xplane).

Back to topic...
Lets put a crappy example: Airport security. All kind of measures are used to prevent explosives to be smuggled on board: Including any kind of fluids, gases and so on. Ok, great! This means that nobody can destroy the airplane. Job well done.

What about the customers? Ok, so you can't have this and that and whats not in your luggage. Some of the restrictions are really ridiculous and are actually hampering the customers. And sometimes if you (accidentally) try to bring something illegal to the airplane they might as well cancel your flight. And even if you don't bring anything illegal they can still strip you naked and compromise your privacy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Off Topic:
With regards to ArmA 2, its a far better game/sim than any of the regular FPS and yeah agree its not really a FPS anyway, its a sim and like you I'm not in to mindless shooters either, I definitely prefer my games with realism rather than a touch of Hollywood. I've played CoD and ArmA just to compare them, and despite extra Hollywood style hype in CoD designed to make it more exciting I guess, I actually find ArmA more exciting and interesting simply because I cant be so gung ho about it, need to stop and think a little, and not just run out in to a fight.

Back on Topic:
Well yeah airport security does get a little ridiculous these days but just like Ubisoft they are not really interested in your complaints. They realise it creates inconvenience for regular travelers but they dont really care, they are more interested in preventing terrorism. This debate on DRM and the war on piracy itself are not likely to ever be won either, much like the "War on Terror", as stated by another user in this debate.

Anyway I'm not sure I have much else to contribute to this debate, I'll say once again just so there is no missunderstanding, I in no way support DRM, but I do understand why Ubi used it. Older forms of DRM were too easily cracked, something new has come along and they looked at it and saw at least some potential for it to provide a greater level of security than the previous DRM methods. Naturally they decided to use it. Also as another user stated the smaller guys like Bohemia may not be implementing this style of DRM themselves due to costs and so on, but they'll be on the phone to publishers like Ubi and EA finding what sort of deal they can strike up to get it. I guess in a way Bohemia is not the best example there cause my understanding is they're trying to go it alone and be developer and publisher which is why they're not going with Codemasters any longer, but hopefully you get the point.

I do think in the long run, all developers will introduce this style of DRM, but I also believe all developers will also remove the DRM after a certain period of time has elapsed since release. I dont believe AC2 is old enough yet.

Anyway thats all I have left to say, I'll keep reading the debate but until I have something new to add I'll be keeping quiet. One last thing, I do hope this DRM get resolved one way of the other, personally I dont really care which way it goes because I've not experienced any problems, but I do hope the problems get sorted out so everyone can indeed enjoy this game.

Gekkibi
03-31-2010, 04:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
Off Topic:
With regards to ArmA 2, its a far better game/sim than any of the regular FPS and yeah agree its not really a FPS anyway, its a sim and like you I'm not in to mindless shooters either, I definitely prefer my games with realism rather than a touch of Hollywood. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you are interested about realism tank unit I suggest you find more about Unit 19. Here is a good example what Unit 19 does: Part I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mncOqfey5e8), Part II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhyVQAPBlCc). It might be boring to someone, but then again... Realism is not meant for everyone.

If you would like to include something to this off-topic discussion I suggest we switch to PMs.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Engioc:
Also as another user stated the smaller guys like Bohemia may not be implementing this style of DRM themselves due to costs and so on, but they'll be on the phone to publishers like Ubi and EA finding what sort of deal they can strike up to get it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Difficult to predict. I do hope they are not urinating to customers cereals in the future, 'tho. And the gamer community is much more mature than in Ubisoft games (With exception of IL and SH), and they don't take kindly this kind of treatment. In my opinion piracy is not a big issue to Bohemia Interactive due to the fact Arma 2 is not meant for everyone (It is more lucrative to make a game which is based to hollywoodism instead of physics and real-life tactics).

However, if they do implement this kind of DRM I will instantly without any reconcideration quit supporting them.

Barrowner
03-31-2010, 04:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
I would say "Let them quit making games for PC, It's their loss. Someone else will take their place. Bye bye, and don't let the door hit you".

Most of the Ubisoft games are meant for youngsters. Some interests me, but I can live without them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Considering all the posts made and time spent here you care a lot about Ubisoft's games.

Barrowner
03-31-2010, 04:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
In my opinion piracy is not a big issue to Bohemia Interactive due to the fact Arma 2 is not meant for everyone (It is more lucrative to make a game which is based to hollywoodism instead of physics and real-life tactics).

However, if they do implement this kind of DRM I will instantly without any reconcideration quit supporting them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Does this mean you approve DRMs for games where piracy is a big problem?

Gekkibi
03-31-2010, 04:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
Considering all the posts made and time spent here you care a lot about Ubisoft's games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I care very little about Ubisofts games (Except Assassin's Creed II, because I am a paying cutomer). I am here to discuss the problems DRM is causing.

And I wouldn't say that I spend time here: I have had this tab opened since I registered, and I just refresh it once in a while when I am sitting next to my computer, I am at work or in lectures.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
Does this mean you approve DRMs for games where piracy is a big problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I approve DRMs as long as it doesn't affect paying customers in any way. Ubisofts current DRM affects, and thus I don't approve it.

Barrowner
03-31-2010, 06:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
I approve DRMs as long as it doesn't affect paying customers in any way. Ubisofts current DRM affects, and thus I don't approve it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There are no DRMs that do not affect customers in some way. But no intrinsic reason that is should affect customers more than a massive mulitplayer game with downloadable content. But what is your alternative? The PC solo game industry is in a sorry state. With most games now being cheap ports of console games appearing many months later and not optimized for PC hardware. If they are ported at all, since many companies prefer to not take the risk that PC piracy will reduce console sales.

markt50
03-31-2010, 06:48 AM
There are certainly DRM alternatives that are far less intrussive on a customer. Whilst not universally popular the Steam DRM meets my 2 criteria which are as follows:

1). No Activation limits.

2). No 'Always connected' internet requirement

Thats it, basically a company can do whatever they like with their DRM solution as long as it doesn't cause me to spend hours on a phone requesting more activations every time I rebuild/upgrade my PC (I'm looking at you SecuROM games).

Secondly, I want to be able to play my single player games without the need for internet access. There is absolutely no reason why this should be a requirement. If a games company cannot make a DRM system without the need for always being connected then they are simply incompetent.

You simply cannot compare MMO's with Single player games for blatantly obvious reasons.

Luckily this DRM experiment from Ubisoft has been a complete and utter failure. Oh sure they are never likely to admit it, but the complete pounding they are taking from a PR perspective as well as sales, combined the C&C4's epic failure, well I'm sure it will drive many other company's away from trying this form of DRM.

I'm sure in the short term Ubisoft will try and stick with it, having probably wasted bucket loads of money on this 'DRM disaster'. Thankfully common sense will prevail and a year or so from now this DRM system will be nothing more than a footnote on Wikipedia highlighting Ubisofts failure.

I wouldn't be at all suprised if they have actually spent more money on this DRM solution then they would have ever lost from piracy, it is honestly one of the most staggeringly stupid decisions I think I've seen acted out in the games arena in living memory.

I can only hope that they come to their senses and soon. Again I state I am not against DRM at all, but seriously Ubisoft, I thought you where better than this ? Get your devs together and come up with a real solution, one that is a lot less horrible for many of your customers, please.

Barrowner
03-31-2010, 07:36 AM
Unfortunately Steam's DRM and all other current DRMs except Ubi's are in effect almost useless with pirates often getting the game before those buying it.

Obviously it would be nice with no DRM. But since we have pirates we must have a working one. Or the PC solo game industry will continue to deteriorate with being at best a waste dump for rather old and cheap console ports.

People accept always internet connection for mulitplayer games so why not for single player? Most players are almost always connected. So this is rather minor point for most people almost all of the time. Most paying customers would likley accept this in return for better games.

Regarding financial success we will have to wait and see. I suspect that a lot of independent developers are now having Ubisoft are as their first choice of publisher which will mean a lot of money in the future for Ubisoft.

Alex_HS
03-31-2010, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by markt50:
There are certainly DRM alternatives that are far less intrussive on a customer. Whilst not universally popular the Steam DRM meets my 2 criteria which are as follows:

1). No Activation limits.

2). No 'Always connected' internet requirement

Thats it, basically a company can do whatever they like with their DRM solution as long as it doesn't cause me to spend hours on a phone requesting more activations every time I rebuild/upgrade my PC (I'm looking at you SecuROM games).

Secondly, I want to be able to play my single player games without the need for internet access. There is absolutely no reason why this should be a requirement. If a games company cannot make a DRM system without the need for always being connected then they are simply incompetent.

You simply cannot compare MMO's with Single player games for blatantly obvious reasons.

Luckily this DRM experiment from Ubisoft has been a complete and utter failure. Oh sure they are never likely to admit it, but the complete pounding they are taking from a PR perspective as well as sales, combined the C&C4's epic failure, well I'm sure it will drive many other company's away from trying this form of DRM.

I'm sure in the short term Ubisoft will try and stick with it, having probably wasted bucket loads of money on this 'DRM disaster'. Thankfully common sense will prevail and a year or so from now this DRM system will be nothing more than a footnote on Wikipedia highlighting Ubisofts failure.

I wouldn't be at all suprised if they have actually spent more money on this DRM solution then they would have ever lost from piracy, it is honestly one of the most staggeringly stupid decisions I think I've seen acted out in the games arena in living memory.

I can only hope that they come to their senses and soon. Again I state I am not against DRM at all, but seriously Ubisoft, I thought you where better than this ? Get your devs together and come up with a real solution, one that is a lot less horrible for many of your customers, please. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you tried it?

I've been thru all sorts of copy protection in the recent years, from disk requirement to nasty drivers, limited instals (absolutely ridiculous), even usb dongles, they all bothered me more than this one and yet failed to protect the game.

This DRM doesnt stop me from having my game on several machines.
Doesnt conflict with other software.
Doesnt have limited instalations.
Doesnt require the disk to play.

Not bad at all if you ask me..

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-31-2010, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by markt50:

Luckily this DRM experiment from Ubisoft has been a complete and utter failure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

from whos viewpoint ?

because for Ubisoft its been a humongous success.

how you can even say this when anybody can check its status at any time.
success = uncracked
failure = cracked.

and the ones you suggest to replace it have all been cracked.
you make no sense.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alex_HS:
This DRM doesnt stop me from having my game on several machines.
Doesnt conflict with other software.
Doesnt have limited instalations.
Doesnt require the disk to play.

Not bad at all if you ask me.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are about to be called a troll,as all non believers in the tin foil brigade are

markt50
03-31-2010, 08:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alex_HS:
Have you tried it?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, and until I can pick the game up for &lt;10 I won't be trying it. I want to be able to install and play the game on a laptop for when I'm away from home. At the moment the game is gimped due to the DRM. I understand that many people do not have this requirement and will only ever play at home with their machine connected to the Internet. However there are still people who would like to be able to play whilst not being able to connect. We are simply making our voices heard.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
from whos viewpoint ?

because for Ubisoft its been a humongous success.

how you can even say this when anybody can check its status at any time.
success = uncracked
failure = cracked.

and the ones you suggest to replace it have all been cracked.
you make no sense.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From my own viewpoint. I am merely expressing an opinion. I do not judge the success on whether it has or has not been cracked, I personally couldn't care less. I stopped caring when games company's started implementing these systems which punish potential customers along with the pirates. I have no intentions of playing a pirated version of the game so why would I even care if it has been cracked or not. No, I will judge the success of this system based upon public reaction, sales, price of the games, whether it gets adopted by other companies etc. It is far to early to state whether or not this system has been a success or failure, I'm simply saying it is my opinion that we are looking at a failure taking place right before our very eyes. A year from now will Ubisoft still be claiming it a success if sales are far far below expectations ? They could implement the most secure DRM known to man that can never be cracked, but would this be a success if the game sells 100 copies only ?

Besides, I could be wrong, maybe this will turn out to be a marvelous success, certainly wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong about something and I'm more than happy to say when I'm wrong about things. If it does turn out I'm wrong and Ubisofts titles become best sellers, and make them bucket loads of cash, well then I will simply accept defeat, acknowledge that they no longer want people like me as a customer and quietly move onto new things accepting that I will no longer be able to purchase Ubi games, and that they don't actually care because they're making enough money without customers like me.

Time will tell.

iambizarro
03-31-2010, 11:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:

Obviously it would be nice with no DRM. But since we have pirates we must have a working one. Or the PC solo game industry will continue to deteriorate with being at best a waste dump for rather old and cheap console ports.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The PC solo game industry is heading that way already. We get poorly ported console games now, except from a few developers. But it also works the other way around, the consoles get poorly ported PC games too. This has always been the case.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
People accept always internet connection for mulitplayer games so why not for single player? Most players are almost always connected. So this is rather minor point for most people almost all of the time. Most paying customers would likley accept this in return for better games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A lot of multiplayer games connect to a main server so you can play with other users. Now try playing a LAN game with your friends and have no internet connection. Believe it or not, some people do not have an internet connection, or it's a poor one. That is one of the main issues with this.
The other big issue with random disconnects (poor internet) is one that can be tuned and changed with time. Allow 10 minute timeout, etc.

I agree that the publishers / game devs need to protect their product, because it is a lot of work, but I disagree with their methods for this way.
Now, if they said something along the lines of:
"For the first year, we will have this DRM that is always connected, but then after that, we will change that, so you can play it without being connected."

But they have said nothing with regards to the future.

This is a very interesting time to be a PC gamer. I say interesting because in the end, the only ones who will inevitably win will be the pirates. The gaming companies may close down, or do console only games, the consumers won't get good games, or they may get the games, but can't play them, etc.
And the pirates, the people who would not have bought it in the first place, nothing will change.

Now if the gaming companies choose to do only console games, then expect the piracy rate for console gaming to go up as well.

Barrowner
03-31-2010, 11:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:

Obviously it would be nice with no DRM. But since we have pirates we must have a working one. Or the PC solo game industry will continue to deteriorate with being at best a waste dump for rather old and cheap console ports.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The PC solo game industry is heading that way already. We get poorly ported console games now, except from a few developers. But it also works the other way around, the consoles get poorly ported PC games too. This has always been the case.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really? How many recent games can you name that was published exclusively first for the PC and later ported to consoles?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
People accept always internet connection for mulitplayer games so why not for single player? Most players are almost always connected. So this is rather minor point for most people almost all of the time. Most paying customers would likley accept this in return for better games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A lot of multiplayer games connect to a main server so you can play with other users. Now try playing a LAN game with your friends and have no internet connection. Believe it or not, some people do not have an internet connection, or it's a poor one. That is one of the main issues with this.
The other big issue with random disconnects (poor internet) is one that can be tuned and changed with time. Allow 10 minute timeout, etc.

I agree that the publishers / game devs need to protect their product, because it is a lot of work, but I disagree with their methods for this way.
Now, if they said something along the lines of:
"For the first year, we will have this DRM that is always connected, but then after that, we will change that, so you can play it without being connected."

But they have said nothing with regards to the future.

This is a very interesting time to be a PC gamer. I say interesting because in the end, the only ones who will inevitably win will be the pirates. The gaming companies may close down, or do console only games, the consumers won't get good games, or they may get the games, but can't play them, etc.
And the pirates, the people who would not have bought it in the first place, nothing will change.

Now if the gaming companies choose to do only console games, then expect the piracy rate for console gaming to go up as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, some people do not have an internet connection. Or a very poor one. But the same can be said for dedicatd gaming hardware. Many people cannot play many games because of lacking hardware. Should we condemn the developers for this? No. A good, permanent internet connection will just be another requirement like a good monitor, processor, and graphics and audio card.

For those who do not have any of these things there are still many completely free simpler games.

Why should the pirates inevitably win? The situation is different this time. Ubi's solution cannot be broken before the release date since there are contents missing from the discs. Even when these contents become available it is no longer possible to do a quick, complete crack. Maybe one can do a *rip* by trying to get every downloadable content from the server. But if done right with encryption and randomization of required contents, then this becomes an extremely boring and uncertain toil with no guarantee that one ever gets everything. Even if by a Herculean effort one game gets ripped, then all other games will still be protected and requre the same effort.

So the pirates will lose out of pure tedium.

iambizarro
03-31-2010, 12:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:

Obviously it would be nice with no DRM. But since we have pirates we must have a working one. Or the PC solo game industry will continue to deteriorate with being at best a waste dump for rather old and cheap console ports.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The PC solo game industry is heading that way already. We get poorly ported console games now, except from a few developers. But it also works the other way around, the consoles get poorly ported PC games too. This has always been the case.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really? How many recent games can you name that was published exclusively first for the PC and later ported to consoles?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
People accept always internet connection for mulitplayer games so why not for single player? Most players are almost always connected. So this is rather minor point for most people almost all of the time. Most paying customers would likley accept this in return for better games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A lot of multiplayer games connect to a main server so you can play with other users. Now try playing a LAN game with your friends and have no internet connection. Believe it or not, some people do not have an internet connection, or it's a poor one. That is one of the main issues with this.
The other big issue with random disconnects (poor internet) is one that can be tuned and changed with time. Allow 10 minute timeout, etc.

I agree that the publishers / game devs need to protect their product, because it is a lot of work, but I disagree with their methods for this way.
Now, if they said something along the lines of:
"For the first year, we will have this DRM that is always connected, but then after that, we will change that, so you can play it without being connected."

But they have said nothing with regards to the future.

This is a very interesting time to be a PC gamer. I say interesting because in the end, the only ones who will inevitably win will be the pirates. The gaming companies may close down, or do console only games, the consumers won't get good games, or they may get the games, but can't play them, etc.
And the pirates, the people who would not have bought it in the first place, nothing will change.

Now if the gaming companies choose to do only console games, then expect the piracy rate for console gaming to go up as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, some people do not have an internet connection. Or a very poor one. But the same can be said for dedicatd gaming hardware. Many people cannot play many games because of lacking hardware. Should we condemn the developers for this? No. A good, permanent internet connection will just be another requirement like a good monitor, processor, and graphics and audio card.

For those who do not have any of these things there are still many completely free simpler games.

Why should the pirates inevitably win? The situation is different this time. Ubi's solution cannot be broken before the release date since there are contents missing from the discs. Even when these contents become available it is no longer possible to do a quick, complete crack. Maybe one can do a *rip* by trying to get every downloadable content from the server. But if done right with encryption and randomization of required contents, then this becomes an extremely boring and uncertain toil with no guarantee that one ever gets everything. Even if by a Herculean effort one game gets ripped, then all other games will still be protected and requre the same effort.

So the pirates will lose out of pure tedium. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you are saying it is just as easy for a consumer to upgrade their hardware from newegg.com then it is to pack up everything they own, and move to a different location that has reliable internet just so they can play a game.
I don't believe that.

You don't seem to mind alienating those fans as much as Ubisoft is.
You are thinking about the money, you aren't thinking why Ubisoft got to where they are today. If Ubisoft did this from day one, do you think they would still be in business?

And what is your definition of "win" for this "war?" I say pirates are going to win, because they have nothing to lose. Ubisoft has money and consumers, consumers have money and games. Pirates won't get to easily play the games.
I see that as a win for pirates.

Also, it is only a matter of time before it gets cracked. If there is a computer connected to the internet, it can be hacked. If someone has enough time, they can crack anything. This DRM is too new, but once many more companies adopt this method, then it will be only a matter of time.

Ubisoft is doing this for the money, they are a company, hackers / crackers do it because they want to. That is a huge difference.

Have you dealt with many actual hackers? Not those who download things of TPB or private trackers. The ones that actually break the games? If you have, then you know what I'm talking about, but judging from this, you have not dealt with them on a personal level.

Barrowner
03-31-2010, 12:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
So you are saying it is just as easy for a consumer to upgrade their hardware from newegg.com then it is to pack up everything they own, and move to a different location that has reliable internet just so they can play a game.
I don't believe that.

You don't seem to mind alienating those fans as much as Ubisoft is.
You are thinking about the money, you aren't thinking why Ubisoft got to where they are today. If Ubisoft did this from day one, do you think they would still be in business?

And what is your definition of "win" for this "war?" I say pirates are going to win, because they have nothing to lose. Ubisoft has money and consumers, consumers have money and games. Pirates won't get to easily play the games.
I see that as a win for pirates.

Also, it is only a matter of time before it gets cracked. If there is a computer connected to the internet, it can be hacked. If someone has enough time, they can crack anything. This DRM is too new, but once many more companies adopt this method, then it will be only a matter of time.

Ubisoft is doing this for the money, they are a company, hackers / crackers do it because they want to. That is a huge difference.

Have you dealt with many actual hackers? Not those who download things of TPB or private trackers. The ones that actually break the games? If you have, then you know what I'm talking about, but judging from this, you have not dealt with them on a personal level. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Almost all people who can afford a good processor, monitor, graphics card, and so on in order to play a modern game, can also get a good, permanent connection. Sure, some cannot because it does not exist in their area. Well, similar problems happens to lots of other small groups, like those living in areas lacking good electricity. But gaming is not a basic human right where the companies have an obligation making it possible for everyone to have it. It is an essentially unnecessary luxury privilege.

Sure, it is possibly to break any program. In its most extreme form is possible to write an entire new program that simulates everything that an old program does. But why do that when one could instead make money by writing a new game? Similarly, if ripping the game becomes boring enough, then the hackers will lose interest because it becomes a tedious work, not something fun.

In the end, the real hackers will win from a good DRM. Because these skilled people will instead do something that makes them good money instead of some form of worthless "respect" from other hackers. So both the game developers and the real hackers will win. The losers will be parastic downloading pirates.

TheLeoCrow
03-31-2010, 12:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alex_HS:
[...]I've been thru all sorts of copy protection in the recent years, from disk requirement to nasty drivers, limited instals (absolutely ridiculous), even usb dongles, they all bothered me more than this one and yet failed to protect the game.[...] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have never seen a game ubing a usb dongle as a means of DRM. If done properly, it can actually work, but even if it has been tried, i doubt they put enough faith in it and therefore failed. However, it doesn't mean that it can't be done the right way

iambizarro
03-31-2010, 01:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
So you are saying it is just as easy for a consumer to upgrade their hardware from newegg.com then it is to pack up everything they own, and move to a different location that has reliable internet just so they can play a game.
I don't believe that.

You don't seem to mind alienating those fans as much as Ubisoft is.
You are thinking about the money, you aren't thinking why Ubisoft got to where they are today. If Ubisoft did this from day one, do you think they would still be in business?

And what is your definition of "win" for this "war?" I say pirates are going to win, because they have nothing to lose. Ubisoft has money and consumers, consumers have money and games. Pirates won't get to easily play the games.
I see that as a win for pirates.

Also, it is only a matter of time before it gets cracked. If there is a computer connected to the internet, it can be hacked. If someone has enough time, they can crack anything. This DRM is too new, but once many more companies adopt this method, then it will be only a matter of time.

Ubisoft is doing this for the money, they are a company, hackers / crackers do it because they want to. That is a huge difference.

Have you dealt with many actual hackers? Not those who download things of TPB or private trackers. The ones that actually break the games? If you have, then you know what I'm talking about, but judging from this, you have not dealt with them on a personal level. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Almost all people who can afford a good processor, monitor, graphics card, and so on in order to play a modern game, can also get a good, permanent connection. Sure, some cannot because it does not exist in their area. Well, similar problems happens to lots of other small groups, like those living in areas lacking good electricity. But gaming is not a basic human right where the companies have an obligation making it possible for everyone to have it. It is an essentially unnecessary luxury privilege.

Sure, it is possibly to break any program. In its most extreme form is possible to write an entire new program that simulates everything that an old program does. But why do that when one could instead make money by writing a new game? Similarly, if ripping the game becomes boring enough, then the hackers will lose interest because it becomes a tedious work, not something fun.

In the end, the real hackers will win from a good DRM. Because these skilled people will instead do something that makes them good money instead of some form of worthless "respect" from other hackers. So both the game developers and the real hackers will win. The losers will be parastic downloading pirates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All content at one point or another needs to be downloaded to your PC. Whether or not it stays is another option, but if something can be downloaded, it can be cached. If it can be cached it can be copied and so on and so on.

You are all about getting money or "respect." As I said earlier, you have never dealt with the real hackers / crackers who do things because they can. Some get no fame or fortune, because they do not want it. Believe it or not some people are not motivated by money. Some are motivated by the challenge. And those are the ones who will eventually win.

iambizarro
03-31-2010, 01:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheLeoCrow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alex_HS:
[...]I've been thru all sorts of copy protection in the recent years, from disk requirement to nasty drivers, limited instals (absolutely ridiculous), even usb dongles, they all bothered me more than this one and yet failed to protect the game.[...] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have never seen a game ubing a usb dongle as a means of DRM. If done properly, it can actually work, but even if it has been tried, i doubt they put enough faith in it and therefore failed. However, it doesn't mean that it can't be done the right way </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have dealt with many applications that require a USB dongle, and once they work they are really good.
But if the drivers for the Dongle are poorly written, etc. then they are a nightmare to work with until they are updated.

Gekkibi
03-31-2010, 01:44 PM
There was a "dongle" (sort-of) in Amiga 500 days. And it worked because very few wanted to open it, reverse engineer it and make another one.

I don't mind having a USB dongle in my USB port. And I presume no one minds, because nowadays all computers that can handle latests games have multiple USB ports.

Barrowner
03-31-2010, 02:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
You are all about getting money or "respect." As I said earlier, you have never dealt with the real hackers / crackers who do things because they can. Some get no fame or fortune, because they do not want it. Believe it or not some people are not motivated by money. Some are motivated by the challenge. And those are the ones who will eventually win. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As already stated, anything can be broken, but if it becomes hard enough it becomes a tedious, boring work taking a long time.

Some example how this form of DRM can be made harder. You randomize what contents appear so the same content will not appear during two different gaming walkghroughs. So even if you download all the content during one walkthrough the game will still crash during the next walkthrough. Or you require different downloadable contents for different hardware configurations. So even if broken for, say a certain processor + graphic card + audio configuration, it will not be on another. Obviously you will encrypt everything, send ouf false data, false requests, and so on.

Can it still be borken. Again, sure, with enough time and effort. But very boring. And even if you do for one game, the next will be equally difficult. If spending this much effort, the hackers may as well write their own game and gain money + fame + have a challenge.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
03-31-2010, 06:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheLeoCrow:
I have never seen a game ubing a usb dongle as a means of DRM. If done properly, it can actually work, but even if it has been tried, i doubt they put enough faith in it and therefore failed. However, it doesn't mean that it can't be done the right way </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you will never see a game needing a dongle,because of the costs involved dongles are only ever seen on very high priced applications.

if they ever did produce a drm dongle the complaints would start :

"my pc has no usb ports,remove the dongle."

the nets full of compulsive complainers,the tin foil brigade validates itself through complaints,no matter what the subject http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

PurpleHaze1980
04-01-2010, 02:35 AM
At this stage, I really feel like Ubisoft has CUT ITS NOSE OFF TO SPITE ITS OWN FACE.

It's alienated so many gamers, and I do agree with the person who said that they think Ubisoft spent MORE on the DRM than the profits would have been from the people who subsequently boycotted it.

As for the people who are telling us all to shut up and go upgrade our connections - things aren't always that simple. Upgrading your computer is one thing, but telling people to go through the hastle of changing ISPs etc, no...it doesn't quite WORK like that, some people are contracted, some people live in areas where there's only dial up connections and SOME People have to use pay as you go dongles for the internet.

And laugh as all you elite gamers out there who are sitting on your DSL high speed faultless connections saying we have no right to complain (its easy to make fun when you have no problems yourself, isn't it?), but I guarantee if TOMORROW, Ubisoft's servers went PERMANENTLY down and they announced they had NO intentions of putting it up again and had no intentions of lifting the DRM off this game...oh yes, I bet you would ALL be fast enough to start fighting for your right as a customer to play a single player game OFFLINE alright.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
04-01-2010, 03:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PurpleHaze1980:
At this stage, I really feel like Ubisoft has CUT ITS NOSE OFF TO SPITE ITS OWN FACE.

It's alienated so many gamers, and I do agree with the person who said that they think Ubisoft spent MORE on the DRM than the profits would have been from the people who subsequently boycotted it.

As for the people who are telling us all to shut up and go upgrade our connections - things aren't always that simple. Upgrading your computer is one thing, but telling people to go through the hastle of changing ISPs etc, no...it doesn't quite WORK like that, some people are contracted, some people live in areas where there's only dial up connections and SOME People have to use pay as you go dongles for the internet.

And laugh as all you elite gamers out there who are sitting on your DSL high speed faultless connections saying we have no right to complain (its easy to make fun when you have no problems yourself, isn't it?), but I guarantee if TOMORROW, Ubisoft's servers went PERMANENTLY down and they announced they had NO intentions of putting it up again and had no intentions of lifting the DRM off this game...oh yes, I bet you would ALL be fast enough to start fighting for your right as a customer to play a single player game OFFLINE alright. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

dont have the connection ?,dont buy the game.

servers went down tomorrow permanently ?,they would release a patch.

with broadband at such silly prices as free with mobiles and 4.99 a month ?,i have no sympathy for anyone who doesnt bother to upgrade these days.

AC 2 is now 14 quid at amazon,add 4.99 for broadband and its still cheaper than what people paid pre ordering.

used to be you needed a new graff card at 100 quid to play some new games,nothing to moan about with this game.

TheLeoCrow
04-01-2010, 06:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
you will never see a game needing a dongle,because of the costs involved dongles are only ever seen on very high priced applications. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not higher than the cost of their current DRM. Sure, after five years, their current DRM may become cost effective and self sufficient but it raised the price of the game, lowered the trust and respect people had for Ubisoft and i doubt that they actually won anything. Sure, it is a win from an emotional point of view but is it a win from a financial point of view? Companies like that care more about the later.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
if they ever did produce a drm dongle the complaints would start :

"my pc has no usb ports,remove the dongle."

the nets full of compulsive complainers,the tin foil brigade validates itself through complaints,no matter what the subject http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There would be complainers, i too have no doubt about that but those could be solved in much easier ways. There is no pc that can play the game even in it lowest settings that doesn't have at least four usb ports. And how many devices does one need while playing a game? If it came to the worst case, one usb mouse, usb keyboard and a usb modem. There still one available

EijiTakayama
04-01-2010, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
So you are saying it is just as easy for a consumer to upgrade their hardware from newegg.com then it is to pack up everything they own, and move to a different location that has reliable internet just so they can play a game.
I don't believe that.

You don't seem to mind alienating those fans as much as Ubisoft is.
You are thinking about the money, you aren't thinking why Ubisoft got to where they are today. If Ubisoft did this from day one, do you think they would still be in business?

And what is your definition of "win" for this "war?" I say pirates are going to win, because they have nothing to lose. Ubisoft has money and consumers, consumers have money and games. Pirates won't get to easily play the games.
I see that as a win for pirates.

Also, it is only a matter of time before it gets cracked. If there is a computer connected to the internet, it can be hacked. If someone has enough time, they can crack anything. This DRM is too new, but once many more companies adopt this method, then it will be only a matter of time.

Ubisoft is doing this for the money, they are a company, hackers / crackers do it because they want to. That is a huge difference.

Have you dealt with many actual hackers? Not those who download things of TPB or private trackers. The ones that actually break the games? If you have, then you know what I'm talking about, but judging from this, you have not dealt with them on a personal level. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Almost all people who can afford a good processor, monitor, graphics card, and so on in order to play a modern game, can also get a good, permanent connection. Sure, some cannot because it does not exist in their area. Well, similar problems happens to lots of other small groups, like those living in areas lacking good electricity. But gaming is not a basic human right where the companies have an obligation making it possible for everyone to have it. It is an essentially unnecessary luxury privilege.

Sure, it is possibly to break any program. In its most extreme form is possible to write an entire new program that simulates everything that an old program does. But why do that when one could instead make money by writing a new game? Similarly, if ripping the game becomes boring enough, then the hackers will lose interest because it becomes a tedious work, not something fun.

In the end, the real hackers will win from a good DRM. Because these skilled people will instead do something that makes them good money instead of some form of worthless "respect" from other hackers. So both the game developers and the real hackers will win. The losers will be parastic downloading pirates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The difference between gaming hardware and a stable internet connection is that the hardware part is in your hands while a stable connection is not. If you're serious about playing games on PC and can afford the hardware you'll definitely get it but can you get a good connection or a connection at all at your home if your ISP doesn't provide it, even if you can easily afford it? It's not even practical to move somewhere just for a good internet connection.

Barrowner
04-01-2010, 07:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EijiTakayama:
The difference between gaming hardware and a stable internet connection is that the hardware part is in your hands while a stable connection is not. If you're serious about playing games on PC and can afford the hardware you'll definitely get it but can you get a good connection or a connection at all at your home if your ISP doesn't provide it, even if you can easily afford it? It's not even practical to move somewhere just for a good internet connection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Since games are not an essential human right there is no requirement that Ubisoft must make their games useable by the small minority who cannot get a good internet connection. Anymore than they must port their games to Macs or Windows 95/98. if you do not want/cannot get an good internet connection, simply do not buy the game.

dylancis
04-01-2010, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EijiTakayama:
The difference between gaming hardware and a stable internet connection is that the hardware part is in your hands while a stable connection is not. If you're serious about playing games on PC and can afford the hardware you'll definitely get it but can you get a good connection or a connection at all at your home if your ISP doesn't provide it, even if you can easily afford it? It's not even practical to move somewhere just for a good internet connection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Since games are not an essential human right there is no requirement that Ubisoft must make their games useable by the small minority who cannot get a good internet connection. Anymore than they must port their games to Macs or Windows 95/98. if you do not want/cannot get an good internet connection, simply do not buy the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good one.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
04-01-2010, 09:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheLeoCrow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
you will never see a game needing a dongle,because of the costs involved dongles are only ever seen on very high priced applications. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not higher than the cost of their current DRM. Sure, after five years, their current DRM may become cost effective and self sufficient but it raised the price of the game, lowered the trust and respect people had for Ubisoft and i doubt that they actually won anything. Sure, it is a win from an emotional point of view but is it a win from a financial point of view? Companies like that care more about the later.

<span class="ev_code_RED">i would need to see official figures on the costs of the DRM and its implementation,otherwise your just speculating.</span>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
if they ever did produce a drm dongle the complaints would start :

"my pc has no usb ports,remove the dongle."

the nets full of compulsive complainers,the tin foil brigade validates itself through complaints,no matter what the subject http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There would be complainers, i too have no doubt about that but those could be solved in much easier ways. There is no pc that can play the game even in it lowest settings that doesn't have at least four usb ports. And how many devices does one need while playing a game? If it came to the worst case, one usb mouse, usb keyboard and a usb modem. There still one available </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_RED">i never had a single issue from the DRM,which just fuelled my belief that the whole DRM issue was simply down to the thieves being frustrated due to the lack of the crack http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif</span>

Gekkibi
04-01-2010, 11:12 AM
It is not about a crack. It is not about how super kewl awesommage this game is.

It is about that what if you can't have stable internet connection? It is much easier to buy a extra hub port if you run out of USB ports. What if you live somewhere "far away from civlization", and only option is wireless net what gets disconnected once in a while (Read: Minute).

And if YOU have a stable connection, good for you! But think the whole picture: It is not so easy for everyone!

Sure, they don't HAVE to buy the game. But don't insult them being a "pirate" if it is impossible to get a stable internet connection without moving 100 miles!

Gosh.

Barrowner
04-01-2010, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
What if you live somewhere "far away from civlization", and only option is wireless net what gets disconnected once in a while (Read: Minute).

And if YOU have a stable connection, good for you! But think the whole picture: It is not so easy for everyone!

Sure, they don't HAVE to buy the game. But don't insult them being a "pirate" if it is impossible to get a stable internet connection without moving 100 miles!
Gosh. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do Ubisoft have some kind of moral obligation to bring its games to the whole of humanity? Why stop at those without permanent internet connection, why not whine for the poor Mac/Win95/Win96/ME users, or those without good enough gaming hardware to run the game?

Regading the miserable gamers without "stable internet connection without moving 100 miles!". Is it acceptable as you say for those to pirate? No, there are and will always be many free/shareware/pay games not requiring a stable internet connection. Or buy a console.

Gekkibi
04-01-2010, 11:44 AM
I am just defending those who don't have 100Mbps internet connection as I have, because some of those who have a stable internet conenction accuses them of piracy...

iambizarro
04-01-2010, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:

Do Ubisoft have some kind of moral obligation to bring its games to the whole of humanity? Why stop at those without permanent internet connection, why not whine for the poor Mac/Win95/Win96/ME users, or those without good enough gaming hardware to run the game? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As was said before, hardware and internet are two completely different parts to this. But keep going with that. It's cute.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
Regading the miserable gamers without "stable internet connection without moving 100 miles!". Is it acceptable as you say for those to pirate? No, there are and will always be many free/shareware/pay games not requiring a stable internet connection. Or buy a console. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But you agree they are alienating their customers that don't?
And what happens when consoles start doing this as well?

Also, you keep using what I said about gaming not being a human right. &lt;3
And the most important fact I wanted to make sure everyone knew, if you don't support the DRM don't buy the game.

Barrowner
04-01-2010, 12:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:

Do Ubisoft have some kind of moral obligation to bring its games to the whole of humanity? Why stop at those without permanent internet connection, why not whine for the poor Mac/Win95/Win96/ME users, or those without good enough gaming hardware to run the game? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As was said before, hardware and internet are two completely different parts to this. But keep going with that. It's cute.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
Regading the miserable gamers without "stable internet connection without moving 100 miles!". Is it acceptable as you say for those to pirate? No, there are and will always be many free/shareware/pay games not requiring a stable internet connection. Or buy a console. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But you agree they are alienating their customers that don't?
And what happens when consoles start doing this as well?

Also, you keep using what I said about gaming not being a human right. &lt;3
And the most important fact I wanted to make sure everyone knew, if you don't support the DRM don't buy the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What is different about hardware and permanent internect connection? If you do not have what is required, do not buy. Or buy a console which do not require a connection.

They sure are alienating the pirates. Maybe the very small and thus unimportant minority who cannot get a permanent internet connection in their area and refuse to use a console instead.

If you do want a future for the PC solo gaming industry, instead of it being a waste dump for poor and late console ports, then support Ubisoft.

EA has already jumped on the bandwagon.

Blizzard is next?
http://www.thedrmnews.com/game...additions-to-system/ (http://www.thedrmnews.com/games/blizzard-announces-battle-net-to-be-required-for-starcraft-ii-details-new-additions-to-system/)

Just imagine the whining we will see when Starcraft II arrives and if the pirates cannot play it!!!

iambizarro
04-01-2010, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iambizarro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:

Do Ubisoft have some kind of moral obligation to bring its games to the whole of humanity? Why stop at those without permanent internet connection, why not whine for the poor Mac/Win95/Win96/ME users, or those without good enough gaming hardware to run the game? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As was said before, hardware and internet are two completely different parts to this. But keep going with that. It's cute.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
Regading the miserable gamers without "stable internet connection without moving 100 miles!". Is it acceptable as you say for those to pirate? No, there are and will always be many free/shareware/pay games not requiring a stable internet connection. Or buy a console. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But you agree they are alienating their customers that don't?
And what happens when consoles start doing this as well?

Also, you keep using what I said about gaming not being a human right. &lt;3
And the most important fact I wanted to make sure everyone knew, if you don't support the DRM don't buy the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What is different about hardware and permanent internect connection? If you do not have what is required, do not buy. Or buy a console which do not require a connection.

They sure are alienating the pirates. Maybe the very small and thus unimportant minority who cannot get a permanent internet connection in their area and refuse to use a console instead.

If you do want a future for the PC solo gaming industry, instead of it being a waste dump for poor and late console ports, then support Ubisoft.

EA has already jumped on the bandwagon.

Blizzard is next?
http://www.thedrmnews.com/game...additions-to-system/ (http://www.thedrmnews.com/games/blizzard-announces-battle-net-to-be-required-for-starcraft-ii-details-new-additions-to-system/)

Just imagine the whining we will see when Starcraft II arrives and if the pirates cannot play it!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can buy a video card and have it shipped to me, I can't buy "an internet" and have it shipped to me. I have to be somewhere that has access to it. That is a pretty big difference. I am now being told when and essentially where I can play a game. This is called a slippery slope. What will happen next after this? This will not be the end all DRM scheme.

Ah yes, the small and unimportant minority. Yeah, Screw those guys, they don't matter. Only us big guys in our ivory towers matter. So now you are agreeing they are alienating the customer. You keep changing a little with each post.

And I am well aware of what Blizzard is doing. I never directed this DRM scheme at a single company. Ubi, EA, Blizzard, and I'm sure many more will jump on the bandwagon, and time will tell what will happen. Hopefully it protects their products the way they intended. I just hope the gaming industry isn't hurt in the process.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
04-01-2010, 12:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
I am just defending those who don't have 100Mbps internet connection as I have, because some of those who have a stable internet conenction accuses them of piracy... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think the other guy had a good point.

why are you just defending the poor net owners ?,what do you have against the poor hardware owners ?

i havent seen one post for those poor buggers,and yet i also havent seen one post from them moaning about it.

what i do see is people insulting anyone who disagrees with the very few still moaning about the drm.
the minute someone debunks a moaners reasons,they are "cute" or a "troll"

Gekkibi
04-01-2010, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
why are you just defending the poor net owners ?,what do you have against the poor hardware owners ?

i havent seen one post for those poor buggers,and yet i also havent seen one post from them moaning about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because if your computer can't handle the game (hardware wise) you can just buy a new parts like GFX card. You can't buy a good internet connection if it is not available to you where you live.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
what i do see is people insulting anyone who disagrees with the very few still moaning about the drm.
the minute someone debunks a moaners reasons,they are "cute" or a "troll" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is not necessarily because of conflicted opinions. What if it is how they express themselves? For example:
- "ISP in my country only offers a crappy internet connection" vs "not my fault if your isp sux"
- "My internet connection breaks up often. Shouldn't there be an offline mode?" vs "omg plz lol u r a pirate u shud pei 4 da gamez"
- "I think this DRM is not a good idea because it prevents x, y and z" vs "i love it it rocks"

And so on. And don't say I exaggerated, because I damn well know I did so.

Murcuseo
04-01-2010, 01:17 PM
I was quite interested in this discussion for about a fortnight but now its getting boring... I still haven't seen any solid evidence(of the legitimate variety) from either side, be it positive or negative that corroborates their opinion.

Speculation is fun for a while but without evidence it just becomes repetitive and really god damn annoying lol

Show me something worth reading please :P

Barrowner
04-01-2010, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
why are you just defending the poor net owners ?,what do you have against the poor hardware owners ?

i havent seen one post for those poor buggers,and yet i also havent seen one post from them moaning about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because if your computer can't handle the game (hardware wise) you can just buy a new parts like GFX card. You can't buy a good internet connection if it is not available to you where . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, you cannot if you do not have the money. If you have the money and live in the wilderness or somewhere else without permanent internet connection you can buy a console.

Gekkibi
04-01-2010, 01:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
...it just becomes repetitive... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you don't like Assassin's Creed I then..? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
Show me something worth reading please :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is there isn't any proof (Either against or behalf).

iambizarro
04-01-2010, 01:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
I was quite interested in this discussion for about a fortnight but now its getting boring... I still haven't seen any solid evidence(of the legitimate variety) from either side, be it positive or negative that corroborates their opinion.

Speculation is fun for a while but without evidence it just becomes repetitive and really god damn annoying lol

Show me something worth reading please :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol, speculation is fun. But for real evidence, we'll have to wait since this is still pretty new.

But personally, I've been at a friends house that has cable internet, and he's gotten kicked out several times due to several issues related to the internet going out.
Line has gotten cut, wireless dropped for whatever reason, etc.

I do agree though, this discussion has run it's course, and is now just a ****ing match between several of us, myself included. I have said what I wanted to say and vice versa.

Let's just hope there is something of a compromise in the future, as it sucks not being able to play games you really want to because of this.

Murcuseo
04-01-2010, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
...it just becomes repetitive... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you don't like Assassin's Creed I then..? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno, I've played a total of 20 minutes of Screed 1... but it was the reason I decided to buy Screed 2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gekkibi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:
Show me something worth reading please :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is there isn't any proof (Either against or behalf). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly, thats why its getting boring because it's just the same people saying the same things... or new people saying the same things but neither group can prove anything lol

As I said, I'm kind'a bored by it at the moment http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

XX55XX
04-01-2010, 01:50 PM
Cracks like these take time. But it seems that Ubisoft is one of the first to finally create a viable anti-piracy solution. But, we'll see.

Barrowner
04-01-2010, 02:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by XX55XX:
Cracks like these take time. But it seems that Ubisoft is one of the first to finally create a viable anti-piracy solution. But, we'll see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
From what I have read it was "cracked" almost immediately (as usual) in the sense that you can copy it and get it started without requiring contact with server. It is just that there are contents missing from the disc so the game crashes after a while. If they are doing it rightly, like with randomization of what contents are required during different walkthroughs, then it becomes very difficult and boring to get all the server content and impossible to know that you get it all.

markt50
04-01-2010, 02:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
If you do want a future for the PC solo gaming industry, instead of it being a waste dump for poor and late console ports, then support Ubisoft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has to be one of the craziest things I've read in defense of this form of DRM. If you honestly think that we will suddenly see better quality gaming and a resurgance in the PC gaming platform just because this form of DRM is successfull then you are sadly deluded. I'm afraid we will be forever stuck with lazy console ports from certain companies because they made the decision to develop primarily for the 360 or PS3, the PC will always come second to these companies, and as such will always get lazy console ports. It wouldn't matter if another million pc gamers suddenly went out and started buying their games, they would just see it as an opportunity to make more money, they certainly woulddn't invest it in suddenly developing all these wonderful PC games as you seem to think will happen.

No, if you want the PC games market to change from these lazy console ports, then the best thing you can do is boycott companies like Ubisoft, let them go bust or at least leave the PC market. That way it will pave the way for new companies, new devs, new talent to come in an reinvigourate the PC as a games platform.

Oh, and it is completely silly to have 'online required' as a game requirement and is completely different from actual hardware requirements. It is an artificial requirement being mandated by Ubisoft when they have no need to do it in such a draconion manner, this is completely different to saying that a game requires a DX9 GPU or 512mb memory etc. One is an artificially imposed restriction in a misguided attempt to prevent piracy and second hand sales, the other is a physical hardware requirement the game engine has in order to function. Two completely separate things.

Barrowner
04-01-2010, 03:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by markt50:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
If you do want a future for the PC solo gaming industry, instead of it being a waste dump for poor and late console ports, then support Ubisoft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has to be one of the craziest things I've read in defense of this form of DRM. If you honestly think that we will suddenly see better quality gaming and a resurgance in the PC gaming platform just because this form of DRM is successfull then you are sadly deluded. I'm afraid we will be forever stuck with lazy console ports from certain companies because they made the decision to develop primarily for the 360 or PS3, the PC will always come second to these companies, and as such will always get lazy console ports. It wouldn't matter if another million pc gamers suddenly went out and started buying their games, they would just see it as an opportunity to make more money, they certainly woulddn't invest it in suddenly developing all these wonderful PC games as you seem to think will happen.

No, if you want the PC games market to change from these lazy console ports, then the best thing you can do is boycott companies like Ubisoft, let them go bust or at least leave the PC market. That way it will pave the way for new companies, new devs, new talent to come in an reinvigourate the PC as a games platform.

Oh, and it is completely silly to have 'online required' as a game requirement and is completely different from actual hardware requirements. It is an artificial requirement being mandated by Ubisoft when they have no need to do it in such a draconion manner, this is completely different to saying that a game requires a DX9 GPU or 512mb memory etc. One is an artificially imposed restriction in a misguided attempt to prevent piracy and second hand sales, the other is a physical hardware requirement the game engine has in order to function. Two completely separate things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, we have being doing as you wanted for many years and let the pirates run free. What has this accomplished? The PC has gone from the primary gaming platform to the least important platform where console games are ported many months later and without optimization for PC hardware. If at all since many developers prefer to not port at all since they are afraid PC piracy will reduce console sales.

Must PC sales be low? No, look at massive multiplayer games which cannot be pirated. The revenues are astronomic. So if only piracy could be brought under control, then there is every reason to expect similar revenues from solo player games. Will increased revenues cause better games? Yes, that how it works in a free market. More companes will be interested in competing and can afford to maker greater efforts to be the best.

Murcuseo
04-01-2010, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by markt50:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barrowner:
If you do want a future for the PC solo gaming industry, instead of it being a waste dump for poor and late console ports, then support Ubisoft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has to be one of the craziest things I've read in defense of this form of DRM. If you honestly think that we will suddenly see better quality gaming and a resurgance in the PC gaming platform just because this form of DRM is successfull then you are sadly deluded. I'm afraid we will be forever stuck with lazy console ports from certain companies because they made the decision to develop primarily for the 360 or PS3, the PC will always come second to these companies, and as such will always get lazy console ports. It wouldn't matter if another million pc gamers suddenly went out and started buying their games, they would just see it as an opportunity to make more money, they certainly woulddn't invest it in suddenly developing all these wonderful PC games as you seem to think will happen.

No, if you want the PC games market to change from these lazy console ports, then the best thing you can do is boycott companies like Ubisoft, let them go bust or at least leave the PC market. That way it will pave the way for new companies, new devs, new talent to come in an reinvigourate the PC as a games platform.

Oh, and it is completely silly to have 'online required' as a game requirement and is completely different from actual hardware requirements. It is an artificial requirement being mandated by Ubisoft when they have no need to do it in such a draconion manner, this is completely different to saying that a game requires a DX9 GPU or 512mb memory etc. One is an artificially imposed restriction in a misguided attempt to prevent piracy and second hand sales, the other is a physical hardware requirement the game engine has in order to function. Two completely separate things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, we have being doing as you wanted for many years and let the pirates run free. What has this accomplished? The PC has gone from the primary gaming platform to the least important platform where console games are ported many months later and without optimization for PC hardware. If at all since many developers prefer to not port at all since they are afraid PC piracy will reduce console sales.

Must PC sales be low? No, look at massive multiplayer games which cannot be pirated. The revenues are astronomic. So if only piracy could be brought under control, then there is every reason to expect similar revenues from solo player games. Will increased revenues cause better games? Yes, that how it works in a free market. More companes will be interested in competing and can afford to maker greater efforts to be the best. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've said that myself a few times, the way things were heading I can imagine a lot of the companys were considering just dropping PC games altogether because it wouldn't have made them money.

Just be thankful they're willing to put the effort in lol

Wait, did i just speculate on something...doh, must be infectious http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

BrianHanna
04-01-2010, 05:42 PM
the game has been cracked for weeks so far..

markt50
04-01-2010, 05:44 PM
Some people seem so afraid of what will happen if these large games companies suddenly stop releasing the big blockbuster games on the PC. As if it will suddenly be the end of PC gaming. It won't. Sure EA and Ubi and others may decide to back out of the PC games market, but others will step in to fill the void, there is still a large customer base eager and waiting for new and original games.

If the current games companies decide to not release products to meet that need then others certainly will. I actually think it could be good for PC games for these big companies to leave and concentrate on the console sector, leaving the PC games market as a breading ground for creative new titles, the likes of which would never get a release on consoles anyway.

So sure, we might not be playing Assassins Creed 3 or Modern Warfare 3 on the PC, but I have to ask myself if we will be missing out that much, when others here have admitted to the PC being relegated to receiving poor quality console ports already, and I really do not think that any amount of increase in sales on the PC platform due to DRM solutions is going to change the fact that the PC will just receive console ports.

I accept the point that Piracy is a problem, and Barrowner, I agree with you that it does need a solution for the sake of PC gaming, I guess we just differ in that I simply do not think this current Ubisoft solution is the way forward. Heck, maybe they can keep working at it and come up with a better solution next time round.

dylancis
04-01-2010, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrianHanna:
the game has been cracked for weeks so far.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you serious?

Doffen91
04-01-2010, 10:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unstop4ever:
I don't pirate media but I am interested in the war itself. Recently it seems with Assassin's Creed 2 that people have not cracked it yet. Does this mean that Ubisoft has pioneered the solution to stopping piracy?

So far it appears so. I would congratulate them but I do not celebrate victory so quickly in a war that's been fought for generations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know people who have pirated this game and are playing it now as i write this. The retared thing is i bought the game and i CAN'T (Notice CANT) play it. i can't even launch the game cause the launcher updater and DRM is gay and only crashes.... give me my money and wasted time back ?

dylancis
04-01-2010, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doffen91:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unstop4ever:
I don't pirate media but I am interested in the war itself. Recently it seems with Assassin's Creed 2 that people have not cracked it yet. Does this mean that Ubisoft has pioneered the solution to stopping piracy?

So far it appears so. I would congratulate them but I do not celebrate victory so quickly in a war that's been fought for generations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know people who have pirated this game and are playing it now as i write this. The retared thing is i bought the game and i CAN'T (Notice CANT) play it. i can't even launch the game cause the launcher updater and DRM is gay and only crashes.... give me my money and wasted time back ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mate, "gay" means happy or something else?

PB0_shadow
04-02-2010, 12:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doffen91:
I know people who have pirated this game and are playing it now as i write this. The retared thing is i bought the game and i CAN'T (Notice CANT) play it. i can't even launch the game cause the launcher updater and DRM is gay and only crashes.... give me my money and wasted time back ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well if you know people who have cracked it, you just have to use the crack and be happy.

Unless the crack doesn't work that well....

Murcuseo
04-02-2010, 02:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PB0_shadow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doffen91:
I know people who have pirated this game and are playing it now as i write this. The retared thing is i bought the game and i CAN'T (Notice CANT) play it. i can't even launch the game cause the launcher updater and DRM is gay and only crashes.... give me my money and wasted time back ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well if you know people who have cracked it, you just have to use the crack and be happy.

Unless the crack doesn't work that well.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Either that or he's talkin' a lot of rubbish http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Black_Widow9
04-02-2010, 11:53 AM
Please stay on Topic. Let me remind you-
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I don't pirate media but I am interested in the war itself. Recently it seems with Assassin's Creed 2 that people have not cracked it yet. Does this mean that Ubisoft has pioneered the solution to stopping piracy?

So far it appears so. I would congratulate them but I do not celebrate victory so quickly in a war that's been fought for generations.

Question:
Do you think Ubisoft has created a viable solution to stop videogame piracy? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The discussion of using Cracks is <span class="ev_code_RED">NOT</span> allowed.

ChizowX
04-02-2010, 12:32 PM
I applaud Ubi's efforts to come up with a form of DRM that works on the PC. While its certainly going to inconvenience some, I haven't run into a single problem yet (5 of 6 Altair armor complete).

Next step is hopefully simultaneous PC launches relative to consoles, lower prices ($60? Why?), and no withholding of DLC (still waiting for my PoP 2008 DLC...)

But ya, now that they've found a DRM that works to prevent piracy, hopefully the sales justify continued PC development. People who want PC gaming to continue as we know it should understand the importance of supporting games like this, especially given the DRM it uses is actually effective in preventing piracy.

marinkobg
04-02-2010, 03:16 PM
Forcing people to play single player games with permanent internet connection is just hilarious.

Anyway, DRM failed.

Reminded me of Microsoft KMS, activation server. I just saw that someone made offline server emulation.

Isiloron
04-02-2010, 05:40 PM
The most fitting thing I can say about all this is:

"Nothing is true, everything is permitted."

S.H.O.D.A.N
04-02-2010, 09:36 PM
Just for those who have mentioned EA and blizzard along with Ubi$ofts name.

Blizzard is inputting an offline mode for Starcraft 2 and EA is permitting the use of offline server systems to allow people to play without the internet, so neither are really the same as Ubi$oft.

Dimind1974
04-03-2010, 12:49 AM
But how do you define victory? Is it a DRM-win if the pirates cant crack it?But is it still a victory if you scare more people away than you win?

In my book they lost. The numbers so far among my friends that play games: We were 3 who planned on buy it, and one without money who planned to pirate it. Result: 1 sold, none pirated. My point here, what's looks like a 1-0 win to DRM, is actally a 1-2 loss, because they didn't gain any sales, but lost 2.

I always thought of a DRM-victory as a system that made you sell more, not less. This may change, maybe a lot of people that waits for a crack eventually buys the game, but when you see the amount of uproar, I doubt this can be a win when it comes to sales.

MalakvianPsycho
04-03-2010, 01:07 AM
Ubisoft is making a big mistake. I paid full price for AC1 and it was worth it cause I could actually play it.
Myself and thousands of others in rural areas are still limited to dial-up or satellite, neither of which lend themselves to this new failed DRM scheme.

I was planning on buying AC2, but now will NOT because of this DRM.

Moreover, I will never buy it or any other constant connect DRM even if I do get broadband some day. If Blizzard is stupid enough to make the same mistake with Diablo III and SC2 I will not be paying for those either.

Hopefully this sends a clear message to developers. You are only driving away paying customers.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
04-03-2010, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dimind1974:
But how do you define victory? Is it a DRM-win if the pirates cant crack it?But is it still a victory if you scare more people away than you win?

In my book they lost. The numbers so far among my friends that play games: We were 3 who planned on buy it, and one without money who planned to pirate it. Result: 1 sold, none pirated. My point here, what's looks like a 1-0 win to DRM, is actally a 1-2 loss, because they didn't gain any sales, but lost 2.

I always thought of a DRM-victory as a system that made you sell more, not less. This may change, maybe a lot of people that waits for a crack eventually buys the game, but when you see the amount of uproar, I doubt this can be a win when it comes to sales. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry..i cancelled out your ratio,i bought 4 at the ridiculously low easter price for birthday presents for nephews.

this means i have bought 5,to your 1..

again,sorry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

keibeck
04-03-2010, 09:03 PM
Crackarz made a virtual drm server which lets pirates play the game without the need to be online, so I guess the war on piracy is far from over.

Sheena8500
04-03-2010, 09:30 PM
The game is cracked. The drm server emulator work just fine. I tought it was over this time but meh, try harder. Pirates groups are smarter than you think :/

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
04-03-2010, 10:56 PM
suppose in a day or two all these pirates will be back whining about the fake server not working http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

nets full of this being a non working solution to playing a game so cheap a 12 yr olds pocket money can buy it..

swn32
04-03-2010, 11:41 PM
Im getting really tired of your ignorant comments. The emulator server is working fine. The values have been collected till sequence 6 within the past two days. People are testing it and reporting problems which are being corrected promptly. Soon they will have a fully working bug free solution.

And please stop making useless assumptions that everybody in the world has an always on internet connection. These hacker groups are giving those less fortunate people a solution when Ubisoft has clearly ignored them.

franko_faaip
04-03-2010, 11:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by swn32:
Im getting really tired of your ignorant comments. The emulator server is working fine. The values are being collected till sequence 6 within the past two days. People are testing it and reporting problems which are being corrected promptly. Soon they will have a fully working bug free solution.

And please stop making useless assumptions that everybody in the world has an always on internet connection. These hacker groups are giving those less fortunate people a solution when Ubisoft has clearly ignored them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't pay attention to that guy, he's just way happy to connect to ubi servers to play a single player game, he believes that this system allows pc games to continue developing, he's a "happy customer", he has to connect to the net to play his game and he's way happy about it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sheena8500
04-04-2010, 12:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
suppose in a day or two all these pirates will be back whining about the fake server not working http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

nets full of this being a non working solution to playing a game so cheap a 12 yr olds pocket money can buy it.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you don't understand in "drm server emulator work just fine" ?

sfin1994
04-04-2010, 12:22 AM
My faith in ubisoft was so strong before. Then they desided to screw over the pc communty and make as PLAY single player campian ONLINE, WTF?????? Ubisoft, until you come right, I will neva play or buy another ubisoft product agine.(pc gamers waited for 3 month later for AC2, and Splinter cell Conviction is my most anticipated game of the year, so if you want to f*ck over the pc community, fine , screw you to.

MalakvianPsycho
04-04-2010, 01:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
suppose in a day or two all these pirates will be back whining about the fake server not working... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correction, most of the people posting here are (or were till ubi screwed them over) paying customers and would happily pay for a game if they could actually PLAY IT.

I'm starting to suspect this person is a plant in the forums to make Ubisoft look good. How else can someone so blindly support a company that blatantly disregards its customers. Either that or like swn32 said ignorant of the fact that just because something isn't effecting you negatively that makes it ok.

Brings to mind those beatings in the parking lot where passersby turned their head and ignored someone being bludgeoned to death because it "didn't effect them"... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


P.S. Just imagine, Ubisoft wises up enough to release an offline patch and suddenly their sales spike while the Ubi-Execs scratch their heads. ROFL

sfin1994
04-04-2010, 03:19 AM
Thats wat im saying phsco, this is a lame conparison but if every person on earth had a gun and a license for it, except for you , and they denied you your gun because of that, then you will go out and buy one on the black market (illigaly).(license is the internet, gun is ac2, black market is the pirated version).

keibeck
04-04-2010, 03:55 AM
You don't need to have a pirated version to use the pirates' server emulator. You can buy the game and use the fake server. So now that the DRM has been fixed, why don't Ubisoft release a non-DRM patch so the legal players who actually buy the game can have the same comfort instead of such an obvious "crime does pay" situation we have going right now.

However, you could argue you don't want to support the idea that "DRM = good" by buying this from Ubisoft.


Nobody's going to stop pirates from cracking and playing singleplayer games. Multiplayer games are a different matter. If a game has a great multiplayer aspect, people will buy it to be able to play online. There are cracked servers for many games but the experience is different from playing on real servers. Different enough to make people buy the game in stores.

MetalX2010
04-04-2010, 09:29 AM
looks like the emulation server is true, I did think about that instantly when told about how DRM works.

anyway remember guys, everything.. I repeat! EVERY-SINGLE-THING in the world can be hacked or cracked.

for example the slot machines in vegas, cheaters always find a way to cheat in every new slot machine that prevents the occurance of any prior or current cheating method.

bottom line, piracy will never end! you can make it harder but never "prevent".

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
04-04-2010, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MalakvianPsycho:

Correction, most of the people posting here are "blah blah" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

names or figures please.

you claim to have knowledge/figures nobody else does.
so either post them or be seen as another moron thinking we are all idiot sheep who follow a bit of text blindly believing it.

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.

Lenin Russian Communist politician & revolutionary (1870 - 1924)

swn32
04-04-2010, 10:56 AM
I find it stupid how you ask for figures and names when you cant provide any yourself.

Go through all the DRM posts and see how many people had problems with the DRM. We are not your errand boys to go and collect all the legit complaint posts because you cant search for it yourself. We dont think your worth proving our point to cause you are an obvious troll.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
04-04-2010, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by swn32:
I find it stupid how you ask for figures and names when you cant provide any yourself.

Go through all the DRM posts and see how many people had problems with the DRM. We are not your errand boys to go and collect all the legit complaint posts because you cant search for it yourself. We dont think your worth proving our point to cause you are an obvious troll. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if your trying to turn this into an arguement its easier and more productive to just add me to ignore.

its not me saying i speak for everyone here,its your lot doing that.
which means i can then ask for figures and facts because i dont just read a lie and believe it off hand.

if you want me to believe you and your ilk talk for everyone here,you need to prove it.

again,i am not speaking for everyone,i am just asking myself,i wouldnt have the bare faced cheek to assume i can say we all want proof of your claims.

so again,if your going to "speak for everyone",i myself would like to know that you are actually speaking for all,and not just saying it to make a small childish complaint seem bigger than your own greivance.

Murcuseo
04-04-2010, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by keibeck:
Crackarz made a virtual drm server which lets pirates play the game without the need to be online, so I guess the war on piracy is far from over. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sheena8500:
The game is cracked. The drm server emulator work just fine. I tought it was over this time but meh, try harder. Pirates groups are smarter than you think :/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there any chance of you guys showing or telling us where you got your information from?

No offence but you can't expect us just to take your word for it... I've been looking on Google for an hour trying to find something about this virtual DRM but I can't see anything!

Links please...

swn32
04-04-2010, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:

if your trying to turn this into an arguement its easier and more productive to just add me to ignore.

its not me saying i speak for everyone here,its your lot doing that.
which means i can then ask for figures and facts because i dont just read a lie and believe it off hand.

if you want me to believe you and your ilk talk for everyone here,you need to prove it.

again,i am not speaking for everyone,i am just asking myself,i wouldnt have the bare faced cheek to assume i can say we all want proof of your claims.

so again,if your going to "speak for everyone",i myself would like to know that you are actually speaking for all,and not just saying it to make a small childish complaint seem bigger than your own greivance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not speaking for everyone. Im just speaking on befalf of the general opinion on this thread. You are the one who is branding every complainer as a pirate because of your ignorance.

Like i said, its not my job to educate every ignorant soul in this world. If you want proof, look all around this forum. Paying customers are dissatisfied.

Look at this (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4721051016/m/9761009738) thread for example, or this (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/1801042338) or this (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/5491047838). The general opinion is this DRM sucks. Now you maybe ignorant enough to go around branding every one of those posters as pirates to try and prove your point but the fact is most pirates i know dont go around begging the game company for a crack. They have their own forums where they discuss such stuff. I dont know which planet you are from because such ignorance is appalling.

Like other people said, just because you didnt face any problem doesnt mean no one has.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MalakvianPsycho:

Brings to mind those beatings in the parking lot where passersby turned their head and ignored someone being bludgeoned to death because it "didn't effect them"...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you talk about being childish when you are the one thinking the whole world revolves around you. And you my friend are the real sheep who cannot distinguish between right and wrong and let companies like Ubisoft toy around with you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robson19822009:

Is there any chance of you guys showing or telling us where you got your information from?

No offence but you can't expect us just to take your word for it... I've been looking on Google for an hour trying to find something about this virtual DRM but I can't see anything!

Links please...

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Such sites usually arent high up in google's page rankings, primarily because most links to those sites are coded and thus google cannot use that for page ranking. Again its against forum rules to post links to cracking websites, ill send you a pm instead.

Black_Widow9
04-04-2010, 12:14 PM
Since you guys cannot obviously stay on Topic...consider it locked. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif