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View Full Version : Oleg, what do you think of the P-51D?



XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 09:37 PM
Oleg,

While I anxiously await the chance to fly the P-51 I was wondering if you could give your opinion of this plane overall. Is it your favorite American plane? Also how do you rate it compared to other planes like the 109's or the La-7's?

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 09:37 PM
Oleg,

While I anxiously await the chance to fly the P-51 I was wondering if you could give your opinion of this plane overall. Is it your favorite American plane? Also how do you rate it compared to other planes like the 109's or the La-7's?

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 09:40 PM
We will soon find out. Got my fingers crossed for a fair and unbiased modeling job. I have faith in Oleg though he did fix alot of issues with the P-40 and P-47..took alot of whininh but he did fix them/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
S~

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ZG77_Nagual
10-24-2003, 09:53 PM
Awhile back oleg posted a sov test pilots opinion from ww2 - opinion was that it was very good and easy to fly.
The ki-84 will make sushi out of it unless you stick to the energy fight. Aerodynamics are the p51s forte.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 09:54 PM
i love the p-51 but the P-38 is the one im really waitng for http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Message Edited on 10/24/0308:54PM by zodicus

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 10:08 PM
Oleg had too say she turn under 7000m not so good as 109,
is too not faster sealevel and can not especially climb

her accelerate is too not good and one hit engine is down can you read olegs objectdata.

i dont not know how she fight against la-7 but under 3000m has she certain problem and more as germans plane

109 had chance with climb, but what make p51?

at low altitude.

accelerate, climb and sealevel speed are very important at low altitude

la-7,a9,dora all better and too k4 is better


Message Edited on 10/25/0301:10AM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 10:50 PM
yep, the Mustang should not be that much of a threat under at least 5000 m

it will be a GOOD plane overall, but remember the two major avantages of this plane were: great performances at high altitudes and incredible range.

These arent really important factors on the Eastern Front, especially in FB, so dont expect the P-51 to be all uber

and I also expect to see a lot of ''OMG OLEG WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO OUR BELOVED OH SO WONDERFUL MAJESTIC INVUNERABLE PLANE!!!!'' on the forums after the free add-on

:-P

__________________

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Message Edited on 10/24/0309:54PM by GunterAeroburst

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 10:52 PM
Maybe another good characteristic of the P-51 would be a great overall visibility but then again, is it really a factor in a sim with so many ''out of the plane'' views /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

__________________

THIS is the graph:

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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 10:54 PM
Well, it will be more agile than the P-47 but it'll loose the same versality of the T-bolt.

In any case, should be a good companion to the P-47, but it hinges on working as a team and not a lone wolf.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 11:07 PM
Yes I agree. I hope the P-51 fans don't act like the FW-190 fans. I personally will work with what I get and not complain. I don't like how the P-47D-27 has turned out but complaining about that is just redundant and pointless.

My personal favorite American plane is the P-38 which is why Gibbage is my 3D modelling hero. I will definitely be manning the 'Stang in the meantime, though.

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 11:26 PM
What Can you say...
P-51 = Cannon Fodder...

P-51--The greatest target Practice of them all....

--That Little flash you see in the corner of your eye...is me and my Brewster--

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 11:52 PM
If the P-51 was my favorite plane (which it is not) I would be more happy if it was not one of the best planes. Otherwise I would feel guilty about flying it and my aerial kills would mean nothing to me if I made them in an uber plane. I've always liked flying the Mig3ud, Il-2I, B-239, P-47, and some German planes if I'm on that side (they don't have enough bad fighter planes).

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 12:00 AM
All the P47 wining wasn't entirely pointless. The plane has been to a large degree fixed. She may not perform exactly like its supposed to but its alot closer. Biggest thing for me was figuring out how to score kills with it. Once that happened, I was taking out 109s and 190s in droves.

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 12:03 AM
I'll fly it with whatever an FM we'll get, I just hope the radiator exhaust will be remodeled.

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 12:11 AM
Mig Pilots have always my highest regards!
I salute Them! ...
They can fly!

--That Little flash you see in the corner of your eye...is me and my Brewster--

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 12:27 AM
Bucinda wrote:
- Yes I agree. I hope the P-51 fans don't act like the
- FW-190 fans. I personally will work with what I get
- and not complain. I don't like how the P-47D-27 has
- turned out but complaining about that is just
- redundant and pointless.


Im with you on that one. Actually I am now so looking forward to all the new planes. The Macchi will be interesting...as will the Frank & Zero. I just hope it comes soon...the wait is starting to get to me.

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Buzz_25th
10-25-2003, 01:09 AM
If you want to go by the object viewer. Oleg has the P-51 climbing at the same speed as the 109 G-10.

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 01:28 AM
I am not saying that bringing up the issues with the P-47 was pointless but at this point I think it is pretty clear what the issues are. There is a difference between presenting specific technical problems with data to back it up and people just whining because their favorite plane doesn't perform the way they want it to. Unfortunately I can see the latter happening with the P-51 rather quickly. It would be nice though if people didn't expect this plane to be more than it was.

To get back to my original question I am not really interested in how Oleg interprets the technical data of the P-51 as much as I am just curious about his opinion of this plane.

ZG77_Nagual
10-25-2003, 01:58 AM
It's going to be a bit controversial because - like the p39 - the mustang has great aerodynamics. This will make for good e retention, zoom climb and accel in a shallow dive - and seemingly better performance than it should have, in the respects, when flown in and energy conscious fashion

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 02:10 AM
-- Yes I agree. I hope the P-51 fans don't act like the FW-190 fans.

I have been thinking about that. The Fw190 visibility/gunsight issues got alot more attention than the severely crippled Fw190 flight model before The Patch. I am thinking it is the importance of raw vision to us humans/humanettes that explains this focus on Fw190 cockpit instead of the usual FM whinining.

Nah I'm probably making that up.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 03:52 AM
p47 d27 still has a roll slower then the real plane, as far as the p40 the only thing was dive bug removed. its roll rate should be faster then a p39 and the p40e and m's sealevel flight speed is significantly slower at 25% fuel then a fully fueled p40m and e in reality.

and if the mustang has the same .50 cals as the p40 boy is the stang in some serious trouble and wont stand a chance against 190s LA7s YAKS LAGGS.

It seems like somethings really wrong with the low caliber guns in this sim or armor levels are screwed up like super tail armor on most aircraft.

maybe in 1.2 alot of things will be corrected

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 12:00 PM
To an extent: i agree with you Leadspitter. However, from my experience with the plane (mostly the P-47 D-10, as the D-22 is only better for Jabo, and the D-27 is still a joke), the .50 cals are very VERY effective against most of the planes... EXCEPT the FW. The only plane that i have trouble damaging in general, is the FW-190. Frankly, i don't care what Oleg thinks... but .50's should go STRAIGHT through any fighter in the sim. The amount of hits it takes to do serious dmg to a FW w/ .50's is ludicrous.

At any rate: if all things are as they were, the P-47 should be an overall better A/C than the P-51, other than range. I will likely not be swayed to the P-51.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 12:09 PM
The P-51 will be like the P-47 when we get it. That is, it will need some FM corrections to be done.

Hero, I see below your nick that you have not posted much, so it is possible you did not see that the Fw190As have the "old" DM from Il-2. Supposidly this will be corrected in the new patch.


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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 12:33 PM
The P-51 will be great if used correctly. P-47 flyers will probably feel right at home. 190 flyers will most likely be equally good in the P-51 as they are in the Butcherbird. The P-51 just like the 190 will be most effective when flown in pairs, where the speed can be used to an advantage!

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 02:54 PM
Skalgrim wrote:
- Oleg had too say she turn under 7000m not so good as
- 109,
- is too not faster sealevel and can not especially
- climb
-
- her accelerate is too not good and one hit engine is
- down can you read olegs objectdata.
-
- i dont not know how she fight against la-7 but under
- 3000m has she certain problem and more as germans
- plane
-
- 109 had chance with climb, but what make p51?
-
- at low altitude.
-
- accelerate, climb and sealevel speed are very
- important at low altitude
-
- la-7,a9,dora all better and too k4 is better
-
-
-Well Oleg is wrong except for the single round to the engine kill. Its sound as if he is stating uncertain opinions of the Mustang not fact. Alot he is or was unsure about but hopefully by now he has done his homework. Facts and flight data for the Mustang have been posted in these forums more then enough times.



http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/articles/p-38_lightning/images/p-38_head_on.jpg


Message Edited on 10/25/0303:37PM by VMF-214_HaVoK

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 06:37 PM
Shes going to be a good airplane when used right.

She'll be very fast at all altitudes, will dive better than any german fighter, will be very easy to control at high speeds with a good roll rate, will have good visibility, a good zoom climb, and will retain energy in turns nicely.

She will make a lovely energy fighter and will be very competitive if flown by good pilots.

As for her engine dieing in 1 hit, folks, just because eric hartmann did that one time, it doesn't mean that a P-51s engine dies in 1 hit every single time. The P-51s engine was just as vulnerable to radiator hits as a 109s or spitfires. The P-51 honestly is bashed far to much for being vulnerable in my opinion. She had all the same problems that any other plane with a liquid cooled engine had.

You have to take what german pilots say into context. German flyers obviously thought a mustang was very easy to shoot down.. when compared to a P-47 or P-38.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 11:15 PM
Well.......I think any WWII Aircraft buff would agree that the P51 had alot of propagandabehind it. I have talked to P51 pilots, and they seemed to have loved the thing especially it's handling characteristics, and speed
although I have heard the 190's were not to be triffled with at lower altitudes because they had the edge with maneuverability. the P51D was pretty heavy, and I think it's main strength was high altitudes,and range.

I have heard on more than one occasion that the P51B was much better at dogfighting because it was lighter, it rolled better because of less maching guns in the wings
4x50 cal versus 6x 50 cals (D model) I have also heard pilots accounts of fuel sloshing around in the D models belly tank and causing them grief in maneuvering.All in all I gather that it's pretty darn good aircraft, and will be fun to fly I just hope people understand that it wasn't some kind of super fighter. Interesting version of the P51 is the H model which is supposed to weigh ALOT less and had superior handling of course she didnt make it into WWII to the best of my knowledge.

~S

P.S. Oleg can I have a F4U-1D or F4U-4 for Christmas??


TX-Raptor White4
TX-Squadron
"probably the only FB Corsair whiner"

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 11:36 PM
Just now I was playing a QMB in some G-2's against P-51's and A good burst from the MG17 set the P-51 engine on fire.
Also, one hit from the MG151/20 will kill and usually light up the engine.
And the P-51 was a good diver, wasn't it?

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 11:43 PM
-FiNaZZi wrote:

-the P-51 was a good diver, wasn't it?

It was slightly faster than the D-9 in a dive. The Fw 190D-9 and the P-51 should be a very close match.



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The_Blue_Devil
10-25-2003, 11:55 PM
I'll be honest..I welcome the Mustang for the opportunity to dog it out with the 109..however i think I'll stick with my Jug for the most part..I mean she is fragged in FM but I love her to death.

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XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 12:52 AM
-- the P51D was pretty heavy, and I think it's main
-- strength was high altitudes,and range.

I heard this too, and I am worried. You know the Triplane Aces will dogfight with P~51D against Yak~3s at low altitudes so they can get socially acceptable screen shots. I can't wait to see the whining when the "best" long range escort fighter of WW2 doesn't win enough on 50km x 50km onwhine maps, /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 02:17 AM
there has got to be a lot of difference between a P-51 with 25% fuel and one gassed up to go from Britain all the way to Berlin and back! A P-51 with 25% fuel will probably go farther than some planes with a full tank, so beware where the numbers supporting some opinions come from. There's no sloshing in a mustang not fueled for a long run and then it's probably going to have that tank empty before it's showtime.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 04:00 AM
LLv26_Morko wrote:
- What Can you say...
- P-51 = Cannon Fodder...
-
- P-51--The greatest target Practice of them all....
-
---That Little flash you see in the corner of your eye...is me and my Brewster--

Morko, why does it seem that your every post is purposely designed to ignite the maximum ammount of flames? Have you nothing better to say? Need I remind you where the Brewster Buffalo was manufactured?



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</img>.
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but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. "
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XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 05:50 PM
robban75 wrote:
- It was slightly faster than the D-9 in a dive. The
- Fw 190D-9 and the P-51 should be a very close match.

Actually it accelerated slightly faster than 190 in dive. Vibrations in dive appeared sooner than in 190. So i guess maximum divespeed of 190 was a tad higher or both were limited by mach-1.

ZG77_Nagual
10-26-2003, 06:35 PM
keep in mind - and Oleg posted this awhile back - there is a HUGE amount of data available for the mustang - not only old ww2 data - but current data from planes that have been maintained since then - and many pilots who flew them then and now. I'd venture to say there is more reliable data on this plane than on any other aircraft in the simm - and be sure that Oleg has it and is using it. Personally I expect a pretty impeccable flight model.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 06:51 PM
ladoga wrote:

- Actually it accelerated slightly faster than 190 in
- dive. Vibrations in dive appeared sooner than in
- 190. So i guess maximum divespeed of 190 was a tad
- higher or both were limited by mach-1.
-
-

Compressibilitty effects began to be felt in the P-51D at around mach .74. In the P-51B/C is was somewhat higher. But both planes could be dived in excess of mach .84, although I've never seen an "official" terminal mach speed.

Regards,

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:50 AM
Yes accuracy in the flight model would be very nice. I don't want uber and I don't want porked, just accurate. If the FM is accurate then all the whiners who aren't getting the uber plane they expected can shove it.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 11:09 AM
MiloMorai wrote:
- The P-51 will be like the P-47 when we get it. That
- is, it will need some FM corrections to be done.
-
- Hero, I see below your nick that you have not posted
- much, so it is possible you did not see that the
- Fw190As have the "old" DM from Il-2. Supposidly this
- will be corrected in the new patch.
-
-
-
<img
- src="http://www.thundercycle.com/photos/dropdead2.
- gif">
-
-
-
- "Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

Correct you are!! I did not see that post: thx for the info.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:31 PM
I think P51 will be wonderfull to fly in FB.. I love P-40 in FB; I only dislike her speed which is somewhat too low.. IF P-51 is about same as P40 (even slightly more manouvarable), then it will be a joy to fly.. P-51 will probably get her maximum speed right, so it will be a joy to fly with..

I've actually stopped to fly the W├╝rger, as it actually bothers me a lot, when I can't make any deflection shooting with the poor gunsight.. so I have to crap a 109 against the P-51 .. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



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