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View Full Version : *UPDATE* Trackir FPS loss Issue



VFS-22_SPaRX
02-23-2005, 07:29 PM
I have been continuing to work on this with Wayne and I just wanted to let you all know what I have found so far.

Video Cards. I have tested both ATI 9800pro and a Nvidia 5900. With both cards I get the FPS drop.

I have also upgraded my CPU to an AMD64 3400+ and got a new motherboard. It is not an Nforce motherboard. Still having the Framedrop. It is no where near as severe with this new CPU. Before with my 2800 Barton my FPS would be a consistant 43FPS. ( I run Vsync on and have an 85hz refreshrate). When my FPS would drop with the 2800, they would go down into the low to mid 20s. Now with the new 3400 CPU, they drop to only ~35FPS. But it is not a smooth 35 frames. It is pretty choppy. This is leading me to believe that it has something to do with TIR and IL2 fighting for CPU time.

I always run with either 2/4x AA and 4x AF. Wayne has asked me to know try it without either of them. So that is going to be my next round of testing. No AA... ewwwwwwwwwwwww. Man do I hate he jaggies.

But anyway, I could use some more info from those of you that are having this problem as well:

Are you running with AA and AF enabled when you get this FPS Drop?

Could you try playing without AA and AF enabled and report back if you aer still having the problem?


Unfortunatly, this is all I have to report now. I sure hope we find what is causing this issue soon. Just wanted to drop in and let you all know that this is still being worked on.

S~

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-24-2005, 07:32 AM
I wonder why this seems to be only an occassional glitch. I run a TIR 3 Pro w/vector on my machine with 4xAA, 4xAF at standard (1024x768) res and stay in the 50's most all the time...even over cities it only drops down into the high 30's. Which is why I run these settings. Playability comes first then eyecandy.

I ask only because I've heard at least as many say they don't have the problem as those that do and haven't noticed a definitive common denominator.

TB

Tgd_Voxman
02-24-2005, 08:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
But anyway, I could use some more info from those of you that are having this problem as well:

Are you running with AA and AF enabled when you get this FPS Drop?

Could you try playing without AA and AF enabled and report back if you aer still having the problem?

S~ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Sparx,

Yep, I'm still having this problem as well and I'm running with 4X enabled on both AA & AF.

I'll go ahead and try it without those settings and will let you know.

Xses_08
02-24-2005, 08:35 AM
I was running 1600x1200 with no AA but 4xAF.

Had the TIR frame drops.

WWSensei
02-24-2005, 08:52 AM
I run TIR3 Pro with Vector and the 4.x drivers. 6x AA and NO AF. Vsync on. Intel chipset mobo with a P4 3.04GHz and 1 Gig of memory. No FPS loss and have not experienced this problem.

Chivas
02-24-2005, 10:01 AM
I run AA 2xQ and no AF and don't experience any frame drop with perfect settings and water-3.

3800+ AMD 64
6800GT OC
2 gig Memory
Nvidia chipset motherboard


Sorry.....I do get the frame rate drop....I just didn't notice it as much because my systems already high frame rate. It gets alittle choppy and goes down to the mid 30's.

ckur
02-24-2005, 03:08 PM
Just finished a multiplayer session on virtualpilots_1 server, quit flying mainly because got annoyed by the frame drop and need to restart. I use 1600x1200x32 resolution refreshrate is 85, 2x AA, aplication decided AF (OFF ?). At first after take off had some 50-60 frames after about 30-45 minutes frames were down to around 30. 30 does not sound bad, but like SPaRX said it's choppy. I have latency configuration in use, but still it's choppy. When Tir is turned off the frames go back up.

Tomorrow I will try without AA and will report the results if any. Should one make notes of the memory use through taskmanager while having the drop?

My system is:
AMD 64 3200+, Abit K8V, Saphire Radeon 9800 Pro, 1.5 Gb Kingston (3x512), Tir 3 pro software version 4.0.022, Saitek X45 joystick, Sound blaster 5100, using mobo soundcard

LeadSpitter_
02-24-2005, 07:50 PM
did you test monitor refresh rates and tir3pro refresh rates?

VFS-22_SPaRX
02-24-2005, 08:37 PM
I think i may have found whats causing the frame drop, atleast in my case. Seems its the S3TC compression. Right now i am running with no compression, 2x AA, no AF and 1280x960 res. Since someone above posted that they were getting the framerate drop with 2x AA and No AF, i would assume that its not linked to AF. I turned off my S3TC compression tonight and ran through 3 maps with no framerate drop.

Those of you with the framedrop, are you running S3TC compressoin enabled? If so, please try disabling it and see if you still have the problem.

S~

AgentBif
02-24-2005, 08:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I always run with either 2/4x AA and 4x AF. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry for being noobish here guys, but what's AF?

LeadSpitter_
02-24-2005, 09:50 PM
interesting sparx, but s3tc you loose alot of quality with it off but not too bad.

So the ubi pointing its finger saying its natural point tir3 drivers causing the mem loss is false and its a memleak within the il2 game itself.

I tried what you said sparx but flew for a couple hours on a friends machin with tir3pro and still after time looses mem, so maybe its not only s3tc compression and that would be a video driver related memory loss problem usually or could be how the code is written in il2 itself, theres noway to really find out so everything is just assumtions.

GAU-8
02-25-2005, 02:01 AM
sparx,

i just had it happen to me for the first time OFFLINE...

i noticed it in a QMB using uberdemon software... only thing i did different was added more planes. it played fine at first, then it started the track-IR slide show .. and i confirm the GAME was still playing fine, just not the track -IR, it was close to about 55-65 aircraft. reloaded map again, didnt happen. tried ANOTHER map, and again, after setting the amount of aircraft i wanted, started up game, and in about 30 seconds, track-IR got all slide showey . when i RE-LOADED THAT map as well proplem did NOT come back ...

ckur
02-25-2005, 02:17 AM
Leadspitter, how do you test those? I have set monitor refresh rate to 85 from desktop settings and to see the framerate while in game I use fraps.

SPaRX, I have been using S3TC compression, should one try with the default Radeon settings? And you said you did not experince this with three maps, how long did you fly with each map? If you change a map does that "reset" the memory leak, so you wuold have to fly for another hour or so on that map before framedrop?

If you loose quality with S3TC that might be the answer to the thing why ohters see for example ships way before me.

AgentBif, AF => anistropic filtering

ckur

JaVA_Zeehond
02-25-2005, 04:42 AM
I have an XP2800 cpu, an nforce(2) motherboard, an ATI 9800pro, 1gig dualchannel ram and Trackir 3pro. All with newest drivers.
4x AA and 2x AF. (1024x768)


No stutter at all and the game is smooth all the time. Don't know about frame drops but I don't notice any on my machine.

WWSensei
02-25-2005, 05:19 AM
Sparx,

No, I don't use S3TC either so you may have something.

Chivas
02-25-2005, 11:15 AM
I use the default Nvidia setting with no S3TC with no memory loss.

Von_Rat
02-25-2005, 01:00 PM
i have the fps loss, and i don't run s3tc compression.

i was under the impression you lose quality by running compression, not gain it. what you do gain by running compression is performance. at least that my understanding.

Tgd_Voxman
02-25-2005, 01:06 PM
bump

VFS-22_SPaRX
02-25-2005, 01:51 PM
As i said, i need to do some more testing. I only got to play through 3 maps, so i would like to get through a few more before i draw any conclusions.


Maybe we should go this route. If you are gett the FPS loss, try running with these settings.

2xAA, 0x AF, no S3TC compression. See if you get the FPS loss still.

S~

Tgd_Voxman
02-26-2005, 09:20 AM
bump again...

Sorry Sparx, haven't had the time to go online and test with these new settings. Hopefully in a little while though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BM357_Hbent
02-26-2005, 10:03 AM
P4 3.2ghz CPU
Asus P4C800 Deluxe mobo
ATI X800 Pro

I run the game with 4x AA, no AF, S3TC enabled.

And I get the bloody framerate drops, of course.

I still switch Thread Priority to Normal in the Task Manager. I don't know if it helps one bit. I'm pretty much doing it out of habit, now. I'll try disabling S3TC.

ckur
02-26-2005, 10:27 AM
Hi folks!

Maybe some good news! Last night I played for 4-5 hours straight with no fps loss! I used default ati 9800 settings (PF setup menu/video settings) and set the priority to HIGH. What I also noticed that I got some microstutters or choppines, so its not as sooth as one would like, even though I had quite good framerate the whole time.

One thing that might be a factor in this is that there were some 60+ players on the server (Seeigel, test session on virtualpilots_1). But anyway I did not experience the fps loss as before. So all of you having the problem might wanna give it a go.

I will test more on custom settings and without that S3TC compression and post results and findings if any.

ckur

Lav69
02-26-2005, 12:12 PM
Yeah I dont use S3TC either and I dont have this problem. Maybe some of you shuold turn down your resolution as well. I run 1024x768, AA 2x, no AF. Athlon XP 3200, 1gig Corsair Dual Channel XMS PC3200, Radeon 9700pro.

I think some of you expect to much of your systems and need to reduce the eye candy a little IMO. Its a great strain to draw the distances most flight sims do. As well as all the ground objects.

Lav69
02-26-2005, 12:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ckur:
Hi folks!

Maybe some good news! Last night I played for 4-5 hours straight with no fps loss! I used default ati 9800 settings (PF setup menu/video settings) and set the priority to HIGH. What I also noticed that I got some microstutters or choppines, so its not as sooth as one would like, even though I had quite good framerate the whole time.

One thing that might be a factor in this is that there were some 60+ players on the server (Seeigel, test session on virtualpilots_1). But anyway I did not experience the fps loss as before. So all of you having the problem might wanna give it a go.

I will test more on custom settings and without that S3TC compression and post results and findings if any.

ckur <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lag can cause stutters. You should test offline.

ckur
02-26-2005, 01:10 PM
Yes, the stutters may come from lag. But the point was that I did not get the fps drop during on-line play, while it has normally happened to me. The fps drop is easy to notice by turning Tir on/off time to time and using fraps to monitor the framerate.

Tgd_Voxman
02-28-2005, 08:29 AM
UPDATE
Played the other night for a few hours and didn't notice the FPS stutters at all.

S3TC is off and was running 2AA no AF. This may be the solution...I'm gonna up the AF, and play a little more with the settings to get rid of the jaggies (I think that's the AA setting).

NaturalPoint-RO
09-16-2005, 05:05 PM
Bump...

I would like to know still how many are having this issue. My name is Rick here at NaturalPoint and am in charge of technical support after Wayne left the company. I am trying to gather all system specs I can to try and get this issue resolved.

If you dont post them here please post on our forums over at naturalpoint.com.

Thank you for your time.

Monty_Thrud
09-16-2005, 05:41 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

DaimonSyrius
09-16-2005, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by NaturalPoint-RO:
...to try and get this issue resolved.

Hello Rick and everyone,

I just posted at Natural Point's forums a few days ago to enquire about this. I was starting to wonder if there would be any reply, so I'm really glad to see that you're looking at it. Thumbs up for Natural Point support to customers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Allow me to copy what I posted over at NP forums, just to remind the issue to the readers here (thread about TIR and fps loss at Natural Point forums) (http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000115):


Hello,

I'm having the same problem as stated in preceding posts. Frame rates will drop by about 15-20 fps (from 40 to 20) after a while of playing online, and when pausing the TIR tracking or just covering the reflective dots, fps will immediately jump back up.

I'm using TIR 3 Pro with Vector Expansion, 4.1.026 drivers
Game is FB+AEP+PF 4.01m
System is P4 2.4GHz, 1Gb RAM, nVidia 6800 Ultra with 71.89 drivers, Win XP SP2.

Usually when a new mission is started (game engine seems to reload from scratch when loading a new online mission) the problem gets fixed for another 10 min, also if I disconnect from the game server and get back on it again, frame rates will be OK for a while, then they will drop again.

I haven't spotted any particular event in the game (explosions, shooting, etc) that will trigger the framerate drop. I only see it online, it happens the same when there are 30+ people flying or less than 10, hard action or no action, but it isn't a timed thing either, it seems to be something building up gradually.

Thinking about game events that could be linked to this, I feel that generally I notice it just after hitting 'Refly', that is, loading my plane again without loading a new mission. As I mentioned, when the server ends the mission and loads a new one, it seems to reset and start some kind of cycle again.

Thanks for looking at this,
S.

As an update to that, I have been trying the 4.1.027 beta driver for TIR, and fps loss remains the same.

Would you need to know any other system specs besides the ones I listed? Just ask, I'm looking forward to solve that glitch in the otherwise excellent performance of my TIR.

Thanks again, I hope you'll get back with good news soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LeadSpitter_
09-16-2005, 06:46 PM
Im wondering if you are locking refresh rates, if you dont in il2 and many other games they will revert back to 60hz.

Most monitors and lcds have a hz diag to show what the monitor is running at in game. Il2 being an old game reverts back to 60 even if your monitor and video refresh rates are set at 85 90 100 120 etc.

in both ati and nvidia control panels you can overwrite and lock refresh rates on desired resolution which wont revert back to game refresh rates and stay at 85 90 100 120 what ever your monitor supports as max.

DaimonSyrius
09-16-2005, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Im wondering if you are locking refresh rates, if you dont in il2 and many other games they will revert back to 60hz (...)

Hi LeadSpitter, thanks for advice, but it isn't that. I do force refresh rate and also have Vsync always off in nVidia control panel, I've set a profile there for IL-2 with all my tweaks, colour profile optimised for Crimea-green and what-not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I use 1280x1024 at 72 Hz, that's the max my LCD will do, and I know it runs at that rate because the monitor has a display showing the actual settings it's running on.

Anyway, the issue here is not of the "I get lowish fps" sort, but specifically that fps decay over a 15-30 min period when using TIR, particularly online. They drop by like 15 fps, then if TIR is paused by hotkey or just by occluding the reflective spots, the framerate recovers; re-enable TIR and there go the 15 fps down again. The problem is well documented, there is a thread with over 100 posts at NP site (the one I quoted) started by Sparx (over one year ago!), who also started this thread here.

Hopefully we'll sort it out *crosses fingers*

foxyboy1964
09-17-2005, 07:48 AM
Can anyone tell me if this issue only shows up online? I dont have Trackir but I want to get it, but I have been put off by the number of posts on this issue at Naturalpoints forum. I dont play online and have no plans to so if it doesnt show up offline I shouldnt have any problem.

System spec:
AMD XP 3200+
Sapphire Radeon 9550
ASUS A7V600-X mobo
1 Gig pc3200 RAM

Thanks.

CruiseTorpedo
09-18-2005, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
Can anyone tell me if this issue only shows up online? I dont have Trackir but I want to get it, but I have been put off by the number of posts on this issue at Naturalpoints forum. I dont play online and have no plans to so if it doesnt show up offline I shouldnt have any problem.

You should be fine buying the track ir now. I dont know if I've ever experienced this problem but if I did I didnt know / notice. TIR works great, much better than using pad lock or snap views.

foxyboy1964
09-18-2005, 06:30 PM
Thanks for the tip Cruise Torpedo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

DaimonSyrius
09-21-2005, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
Can anyone tell me if this issue only shows up online?

I'm seeing the fps loss online only (but I tend to do shorter simple offline sessions only, QMB mostly).

Even if you were going to play online, you're not bound to have this problem inevitably, I guess most people aren't having problems. But it certainly happens in some systems, as shown in the IL-2 forum at NaturalPoint's, and hasn't been solved yet.

Also, if your system is producing high framerates, say if you are getting 65 fps optimally, maybe you wouldn't even notice a temporary drop to 50 fps, unless you're actually looking at your fps numbers on screen. More so when this happens after a relatively long while in a mission, and gets reset when the mission ends and the next is loaded. One might think it's just a peak of lag, this happened to me until I accidentally found out that, once started, the fps loss would come and go linked to TIR being active/inactive.

TheGozr
09-21-2005, 09:58 AM
True, after siming for sometime the fps droped.
AMD 3700/1mb cache, 1GB mem, 9800 XT ATI. i have to reboot the game after some time. Something need to be "flushed".same with il2 memory flusing in the past.

About the 64 bit driver aswsell?
I heard the same phrase for quite a long time now.

NaturalPoint-RO AKA Rick if you need some testers or any help just say it. You can get a lots of help from this community.
Thank you a lots to give us this product and to be here and the opportunity to fix things that is good for both sides

http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/index.php

GOZR

Silenmtium
09-21-2005, 12:08 PM
Hey Guys, If it's working for you great, but you might be barking up the wrong tree. I have been using track ir pro for six months with 4AA/4AF with S3TC turned on the whole time and I have never had frame drops.
Silenmtium

JG52_Cyanide
09-23-2005, 07:15 AM
You might want to try to replicate the problem by playing online for a while and record an ntrk track during the whole flight. Don't remember where I saw it, but it might have something to do with recording all these "head movements" which in itself creates tons and tons of data to record.

I admit I actually haven't flown a lot myself after reading this tip, but didn't have the stutters when I didn't record.

~S~

~S~

VFA-25_Kosh
10-13-2005, 07:53 AM
I experience the FPS loss as well.

AMD 64 3200+, A8N-SLI Deluxe, 1GB PC-3200 (dual channel), 6800GT PCI-Ex, Windows XP Pro SP2

TrackIR 3 Pro, 4.1.27 Software

Newest Video drivers, newest MB drivers, newest BIOS.


I doubt very much that changing video settings has anything to do with the problem. Texture compression btw puts the load on the video card, no compression puts the load on the BUS.

How can you be trying to relate video settings to an FPS drop when the frame drop can be immediately remedied by pressing F9 (suspends tracking) ??
It is OBVIOUSLY somehow related to the transfer of information between the TrackIR and the game.
I am not saying that it is Natural Point's fault necessarily, but it is caused by interracting with their product and disabling their product seems to fix the problem. Let's hope that they will give it some serious consideration.

On the other hand, has anybody asked Oleg about this??

I posted on the Natural Point forums as well. We will see.

Dutch60
10-13-2005, 08:32 AM
Game: FB+AEP+PF

Proc+Vid: AMD FX-55 + 2x6800Ultra SLI System
Running in SLI SFR mode

Perfect Mode + nVidia Fix
1600x1200 32bits color VSync=On 4xAA 8xAF S3TC=Off

Average of 40 FPS

Using TrackIR 3 Pro + Vector Expansion

I HAVE NO FPS DROPS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VFA-25_Kosh
10-13-2005, 09:06 AM
Good for you; why are you posting then?? lol

VFA-25_Kosh
10-13-2005, 10:45 PM
bump

VFA-25_Kosh
10-15-2005, 08:08 PM
I added another Gig of RAM for an unrelated reason. It maybe coincidental but my FPS drops disappeared. I'm posting in case this is THE solution, I will keep you guys updated.

By the way, running a summer Moscow map, serving, and having some static planes on the map, consumed a total of 1.65 GBytes of RAM (XP included of course) Quite possibly 2Gigs makes a difference. The game runs a bit better as well. Less micro stutters.

Freelancer-1
10-15-2005, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
As i said, i need to do some more testing. I only got to play through 3 maps, so i would like to get through a few more before i draw any conclusions.


Maybe we should go this route. If you are gett the FPS loss, try running with these settings.

2xAA, 0x AF, no S3TC compression. See if you get the FPS loss still.

S~

Hi

I run the settings a little differently and have no framerate problems.

no AA, 4x aniso, no compression.

What??? no AA? Are you nuts!

I find if you have a decent monitor that will run at 1600x1200 resolution, you don't realy notice a huge difference with or without AA. But you do notice a difference with no anisotropic filtering.

In any case, the game looks fine and I see no FPS drop with the TIR on.

VFA-25_Kosh
10-18-2005, 04:36 AM
Well, I see the FPS drops routinely. I tried many configurations. I am posting my observations on the Natural Point forum for those interested.

It is obvious that I can restore the full FPS just by pressing F9, therefore my video settings are just fine when TrackIR is not engaged. There is a connection there of some sort, but I doubt it's the Video settings.

VFA-25_Kosh
10-18-2005, 12:30 PM
4.02m does not fix this problem by the way. In case anybody was wondering.

VFA-25_Kosh
11-01-2005, 12:51 PM
It is very possible that most people do not notice the drop because they either do not stay on the same map long enough, or their FPS is already low and they do not notice the additional drop.
It is hard to notice a drop from 40 to 30, but it is very easy to notice a drop from 60 to 22.

One needs to be displaying the FPS in the game and after some time pressing F9 occasionally to see if there are any changes.

TheGozr
11-01-2005, 02:08 PM
VFA-25_Kosh
I agree i always have to reboot game and track ir .

BaldieJr
11-01-2005, 02:16 PM
No drop for me. Thank goodness i'm poor and use tir2.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Diablo310th
11-01-2005, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by BaldieJr:
No drop for me. Thank goodness i'm poor and use tir2.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Baldie...if you hadn't gotten married you would be able to afford a TIR 3 Pro. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BaldieJr
11-01-2005, 03:20 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif **** sex! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

VFA-25_Kosh
11-02-2005, 12:09 PM
I posted this at the Natural Point forum last night.

"
Hello Rick!

I think I finally have a bit of a diagnostic breakthrough.

What I observed is that the fps slow down seems to be symptomatic of some buffer possibly getting filled.

I managed to capture the moment at which the fps drop and if I F9 at that time and wait a few seconds the fps go back up and stay there for a while and then drop again.

The phenomenon is very similar to a sink being filled faster than it can drain. When you stop the water for a while the sink level drops and you can sustain the flow of water again.

It is the same thing with the TrackIR. When the FPS drops I disable the TrackIR for a good while and resume full tracking also for a while. The longer I keep the TrackIR off the longer I can track after without the FPS loss.

Please forward this info to your techs and ask them to fix it. This problem is affecting a lot more people than are actually posting."


Let's hope they will see into it soon.

THE MORE PEOPLE COMPLAIN TO THEM, THE MORE THEY WILL PAY ATTENTION.

We did not pay good money for our hardware to have another expensive piece of hardware devalue the first one! TrackIR is an external product interfacing with the game that runs otherwise flawlessly, therefore Natural Point has the responsibility to solve the problem.

BaldieJr
11-02-2005, 12:22 PM
How do you know that its NP's problem? In which other games have you witnessed this behavior?

VFA-25_Kosh
11-03-2005, 12:31 AM
The game is irrelevant since it is the TrackIR that is THE 3rd party addon to the game and not the other way. 3rd party addons have the responsibility to interface properly with the existing products. Oleg's good will in trying to solve this problem might be greatly appreciated though.

In any case, I had a positive response from Rick at NP, and he forwarded my observations to their technicians. Let's hope for the best.

VFA-25_Kosh
11-11-2005, 01:06 AM
If anybody else is experiencing this problem, please post at NP. They need to hear from us.

http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=8

BaldieJr
11-11-2005, 07:46 AM
If the tir software is at fault then it would be an issue in all games that support tir.

If the tir device is at fault then it would be an issue in all games that support tir.

If the game is at fault then other games will not exhibit the same behavior.

So build a better case.

money_money
11-11-2005, 11:09 AM
I kind of noticed this problem, but since i installed the new beta drivers for TIR (4.1.028 beta) I dont seem to be getting any frame drop, but I may be wrong. Has any 1 else used the new TIR beta drivers?

<3 $

StellarRat
11-11-2005, 11:30 AM
After moving my TIR from one USB port to another I had noticeable frame drop and stutters after about five minutes of use, but they disappeared after I removed all TrackIR device entries from the registry and reinstalled the TIR software.

DaimonSyrius
11-11-2005, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by BaldieJr:
. If the tir software is at fault then it would be an issue in all games that support tir.
. If the tir device is at fault then it would be an issue in all games that support tir.
. If the game is at fault then other games will not exhibit the same behavior.

So build a better case.

Unless, of course, other games use other routines or dll's or something which may interact differently whith the OS, the hardware, TIR own routines and dll's.... or something. Not that I know what the problem is exactly or where's the key to it, but I'm having that problem, and would like to see it solved http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

On the other hand, and by similar logic,
. If the problem consistently and repeatbly appears to come and go with switching TIR tracking on/off (not even disconnecting the device, just using the command to stop tracking on-the-fly), then one might reasonably think that TIR is involved in the problem. That's why we ask NaturalPoint techs, they're the professional techie types able to kindly have a look at it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

@Kosh, I posted at NP's forum and here like 2 months ago, and was almost running out of hope of getting any signs of life from NP. But then 'Rick' posted there on NP's behalf to say "no news yet, but we're looking at it", so I'm still having patience, they generally seem nice and able people in the tech support field. And they acknowledge that this is something many people have reported and they're on it. They also came here to Ubi forums recently to ask that users having this issue would let them know.

@Baldie: if interested, just check this thread, Frame Rates Dropping in game (http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000115), it's the topmost in Natural Point's IL-2 Sturmovik forum, with well over 100 posts already, started over 1 year ago.

Anyone in doubt or just curious, have a look at that thread too, and please post there if needed.

Cheers,
S.

VFS-22_SPaRX
11-11-2005, 05:03 PM
S~ all.

All I can say for right now is this.

The problem is duely noted and being looked into. I will do everything I can to get this issue resolved. If you are having this issue, then please post in the thread at Naturalpoints forums. The more we can show having problems the higher the issues get put in the "To Do" list.

When I have more to report, I will be sure to let you all know.

S~

SPaRX

VFA-25_Kosh
11-12-2005, 05:59 AM
Well.

I bought a new HD. Partitioned, formatted, installed xp, fully patched, all new drivers for MB and Video.

New install of IL2.

TrackIR sotware version 27.

On my favourite winter Moscow map, like a CLOCK.

About 10 minutes into flying a drop by 25 fps.

It seems almost time related.


I am desparing here. I just SLI-ed my system, put another $300 Video card into the rig to double my frames just so that the TrackIR can HALF my fps for me and therefore TOTALLY devalue my new hardware.

My friend Blaise from the VFA-25 has the same problem and he posted at Natural Point too.



This issue has been dragging on for a year now judging by the post dates and I would like to see more action from the NP people or 1C, instead of "the problem is being looked into". We have limited life spans and so does our hardware.

JG27_Stacko
11-12-2005, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by BaldieJr:
How do you know that its NP's problem? In which other games have you witnessed this behavior?

WTF.. I dont play "other" games. I bought my $220AUS TrackIR3pro for Il2, u dumass. I congratulate the good people at NP for recognizing there is an issue. People (Joe User) need to test and respond accordingly.

I have the issue with fps loss. Most noticeable when i play through a map change, but also after about an hour or 2 on the one multi-player map

DaimonSyrius
11-12-2005, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by JG27_Stacko:
I have the issue with fps loss. Most noticeable when i play through a map change, but also after about an hour or 2 on the one multi-player map

Yup, that's it.

From my ignorance of the inner works that may be involved, it definitely looks to me as is some kind of buffer thing is slowly building up until it gets full (with FPS going down), and then it is reset/cleared/refreshed when a new map/mission is loaded.

For me, it appears to happen online particularly. I've had it offline occasionally, but then most of my offline flights are generally short QMB missions for gunnery practice or just to have a go in different planes. Whereas online, time from one *Loading Mission* to the next can get quite long indeed. When the FPS drop appears, it won't go away when returning to base and the arming screen and start a new plane. FPS may recover only when the map ends and a new one is loaded (and I'm guessing a 'significant something' is reset at that time) Has anyone noticed an association to longer maps/missions, online or offline?

Crossing fingers,
S.

BaldieJr
11-12-2005, 01:09 PM
None of you produce hard evidence to support your claims. NP has been blowing you lot off for a year because all you do is make claims without proofs.

I suggest you all call thier tech support line. Its been over a year since this started and not one thing has been done about it.

Why? Because you guys wont take proper channels. You'd rather call me names and whine I guess.

gates123
11-12-2005, 01:13 PM
I just got a brand new AMD rig. Still having fps loss issues with tir2. WTF Natural point!!!

exos_
11-12-2005, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by BaldieJr:
None of you produce hard evidence to support your claims. NP has been blowing you lot off for a year because all you do is make claims without proofs.

I suggest you all call thier tech support line. Its been over a year since this started and not one thing has been done about it.

Why? Because you guys wont take proper channels. You'd rather call me names and whine I guess.

Baldie, you're way out of line. You should step back a minute, take a deep breath and relax before you embaress yourself.

oops, too late.

Rick from Natural point stopped in the forums asking if he could give a link to their dev team a troubleshoot/workaround post I made.

I also gave him some links...this being one of them, that he chose to bump because they ARE working on this, and they recognize there is a problem.

They haven't "blown" anyone off.

Quite the contrary, they have been working with a few of us back and forth for some time to try and determine just what is causing this.

I'm not going to take the time here to get you up to speed...you don't deserve it. You have no desire to be a part of the solution to anything..you get too much satisfaction in being a part of the problem. Netspeed thread comes to mind.

BaldieJr
11-12-2005, 11:21 PM
This thread:
Posted Wed February 23 2005 21:29

The thread at NP's forums:
posted July 04, 2004 09:39 PM

Into the wayback machine....

posted October 27, 2005 09:14 AM
No new updates at this time folks. We are still working on it.

posted October 17, 2005 03:11 PM
This issue is still being looked into currently. I'll post more details as soon as I get them.

posted September 06, 2005 10:40 AM
Does this only happen with the merged installs as I tested at home this weekend with the stand alone of PF and never saw this issue occur on my internal test server. suggests actual troublshooting may have occured

posted August 16, 2005 01:34 PM
In the next few days I'll pop on a few servers at home and duplicate the problem as well as I will try it here at work when I notice a map change soon. suggests that actual troublshoot could occur soon

Time keeps on ticking ticking ticking.... into the, well, past...

posted February 04, 2005 01:02 AM
Thanks for sending this through. I have had one or two of our users looking at this because the game is actually built on java engine.

posted January 26, 2005 06:30 PM
Guys,

I am working very closely with VFS-22_SPaRX on this, so any findings that we make we will post in here.

Thats if I can stay in the air long enough to find out.... Some of you guys out there must live, eat and sleep IL2. reach around

posted January 03, 2005 11:46 PM
I'll get a copy of AEP and see if the behaves any differently. I only have the standalone version of FB.

Also, please let me know what patches you have applied so I can try to recreate the exact same situation.

posted January 03, 2005 09:41 PM
Based on the numbers you've provided, it doesn't look as if there is a memory leak in the TrackIR software etc etc etc

posted January 03, 2005 07:08 PM
I've been trying to reproduce this here and haven't been able to. I leave the game running all night and never see this problem. etc etc etc

posted December 02, 2004 01:15 PM
We are testing this now with our new software.

ETC ETC ETC

Its not getting fixed. Its an engineering oversight that np would rather not discuss.

Insulting me wont solve anything. Call tech support.

exos_
11-12-2005, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by BaldieJr:
ETC ETC ETC

Its not getting fixed. Its an engineering oversight that np would rather not discuss.

Insulting me wont solve anything. Call tech support.

You have no clue. Move along.

Natural Point is the one that bumped this thread.

Strange for someone not wanting to discuss it.

Still opting on being part of the problem

JG27_Stacko
11-13-2005, 12:09 AM
Ya get outta here Baldy. If the problem doesnt effect you then please leave this thread. This thread is for the people who actually have the problem, not for disbelievers and nay-sayers to come in and dispute a known problem.

No one wants to get insulting, but please respect what these forums are for. Why are you posting here? to dispute that there might be a problem? please leave, or maybe a some mods can come in here and clean this up.

VFA-25_Kosh
11-13-2005, 10:53 AM
Hey, at least we brought this thread too life, lol.

It seems like this issue has been stagnating for a long time. All of you guys know how much computer hardware can depreciate in a year and this issue has been affecting people for a LONG time now.

I'm sure that more priority at NP would produce more tangible results. An accurate diagnosis would at least allocate the fault approprietly; is it NP or 1C?? Maybe it is Microsoft actually?? lol Always suspect MS!

Baldy, do you have the same FPS problem as the rest?


Has EVERYBODY here with this problem posted at Natural Point?? If not, then please do it. It is more important to tell them directly than us in here.

DaimonSyrius
11-13-2005, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by BaldieJr:
ETC ETC ETC

Its not getting fixed. Its an engineering oversight that np would rather not discuss.

Insulting me wont solve anything. Call tech support.
Baldie,

Although I generally like the way your mind works in the humour side of things (and most things have at least one of such sides), and I enjoy your posts more often than not, I have to admit that I'm unable to follow the way your mind is working here.

Not in that I cannot understand what you're saying, I do understand the what parts, but I fail to see any sensible why, particularly about the insistence aspect of it.

I won't be making phone calls to NP's tech number (in Oregon, USA) from another continent, I hope you understand that. Not only because of the money, but also because my spoken English is even rustier than my written one.

Also, when checking NaturalPoint's instructions for support (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/06-support/support-contact-us.html) their first and foremost suggestion is to contact them online on their forums. So that's what we do, and there's a long (5+ pages) thread over there that has been running for a long (1+ year) time now. And here, in this Ubi GD forum, we try to keep a flag raised just as a pointer, for the benefit of anyone who might have this issue (hoping that may result in a benefit for all of us if a fix ever appears).

I realise that all this is tech issue and hence, it could be argued that the proper place for this thread in Ubi would be the Technical Support sub-forum. Nevertheless, I think it could be argued too that, since this is just a pointer to the place where tech support is (allegedly) taking place, "being looked at", visibility is what a pointer needs.

You insist in telling us that the matter hasn't been solved after one year; you have obviously read the thread at NP's carefully enough to quote a sequence of related posts scattered over a longish thread... so you know that they know, and you know that we know too... so what's the point in insisting?

I hope that this thread getting bumped once in a while is not annoying you, but even if this were the case... what would be the point in your own bumping it to the top reiteratively? It would amount to posting repeatedly on a thread to say: "I wish this thread wouldn't get bumped so much".

Because I won't be picking my phone to call the USA about this, I'm using my patience and hope; I'm hoping the NP people can kindly help us solve this. I'm using the online forums as well to communicate with them, of course. My reason to have hope is that I'm under the impression (from browsing the NP forums and reading about how they have dealt with other, different, users' problems) that they are knowledgeable and generally supportive, and that they might be willing (and importantly, technically capable) to help us, even if the FPS issue may not be originally caused by NaturalPoint's software or hardware (which I don't know, so I'm not blaming anyone).

That's my reason to post and to hope. What would be your reason to post more discouragement here?

Cheers,
S.

VFA-25_Kosh
11-13-2005, 03:13 PM
This is a simple matter.

Natural Point is not a benevolent organisation created for us to enhance our gaming pleasure, it is a business created to make money for themselves. They make money by selling their products. The amount of products sold depends on demand, quality, and marketing.

NP has limited resources and many products to work on. Unless NP is convinced that the problem in question is larger than 10 people they are going to do exactly ZERO in trying to solve it because their manpower will not be financially justified.

Generally if a product doesn't perform as advertised it is either repaired or returned for a full refund.

The same will be true with me unless it gets fixed in some way.


There is no such thing as "patiently hoping" that someone is going to do something for us if they don't believe that it is worth spending their money on.

That is why we are applying pressure, to let them know that this issue IS important and affects a lot more people than are actually posting.
This problem may affect their products' RENOWN in the long term.

I personally have a son I would like to equip with the TrackIR but I am not currently doing it. I am also an XO of the VFA-25 and it is hard for me to whole-heartedly recommend this product to our guys and new recruits. So you can see that this affects a lot more than just me.

TooCooL34
11-13-2005, 03:35 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
I've been using TrackIR2 for over 2 years and I didn't believe this post and thought weird frame rate loss would be IL-2 problem, or my machine.
But today in some campaign mission, I noticed big drop in same mission. From avg 70 to 30(or even less!).
It reminded me of this post so I alt-tab out and turned TrackIR software OFF and came back..then see what?
FPS CAME BACK TO 70 AVERAGE!!!
I've been a big fan of NP since the release of TrackIR original but I've been fooled over 3 years! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
This Mad FPS LOSS happens in any spot, any time, multiplay, singleplay, etc etc and I always got deep concern about it. My upgrades were all for removing this annoying fps loss! (currently AMD64 3200+, 1G ram, 6800GT etc etc)
I'm launching a boycott against NP until they give out a solution or proper words.
"We're looking at it"? "No noticeable performance loss"? HAH!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Thank you Kosh for letting us know this problem.

VFA-25_Kosh
11-13-2005, 11:19 PM
I can't stress this enough: YOU MUST GO TO THE NP FORUMS AND COMPLAIN TO THEM!!!

It is vitally important that they hear from as many of us as possible.


http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=8

DaimonSyrius
11-14-2005, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by VFA-25_Kosh:
There is no such thing as "patiently hoping"

On the contrary, hope exists and even it is mentioned in Literature as an important tool in catching snarks as could be our case here (see Lewis Carroll's The Hunting Of The Snark) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We're on the same boat of course, Kosh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
When I said 'communicate with them' I meant putting pressure, since any complaint made by a number of users should be a concern for a smart company, as you have pointed out.

If my TIR hardware were physically falling apart, I'd be pressing them all over the place, angrily complaining on their forums and e-mail if they wouldn't respond. Actually, from what I understand, they generally seem to be responsive and supportive towards users problerms, as I said. But our FPS case here is less clear-cut, we don't know (yet) where exactly the fault lies, so that's why I'm still putting it mildly, talking about my hope or patience for the time being, seeing that, no matter where the fault lies, they (NP techs) could help because they have the knowledge and the means (which I lack).

In any case, I'll *bump* here and reiterate the call Kosh and myself and others have made here: any of you having this issue, or doubting if you actually have it, please go to this thread Frame Rates Dropping in game (http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000115) at NaturalPoint's forums for explanations of what the issue is in more detail, and please post there if affected http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Cheers,
S.

TooCooL34
11-14-2005, 05:12 AM
Originally posted by VFA-25_Kosh:
I can't stress this enough: YOU MUST GO TO THE NP FORUMS AND COMPLAIN TO THEM!!!

It is vitally important that they hear from as many of us as possible.


http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=8
Thank you, I've posted mine.

F19_Orheim
11-14-2005, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by TooCooL34:
I'm launching a boycott against NP until they give out a solution or proper words.


Hi mate. Love my Track IR, had it for 3 years (version 1)...). Just curious.... How will you boycott NP? By not using the device?? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Sorry mate, can't do that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Sorry you guys have troubles with it though, hopefully NP will, with your input, find an answer

Stoyanov
11-14-2005, 05:45 AM
If the problem looks time related, mby this problem can be related to overheating. My TIR gets quite hot but i dont experience any fps loss..

TooCooL34
11-14-2005, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Just curious.... How will you boycott NP? By not using the device?? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Sorry mate, can't do that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Don't worry, I withdrew my boycott thanks to so many advocates of TIR. Mind including you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=001725;p=0
My plan to buying new Tir4 just stopeed and I will comment this problem when someone ask about Tir.

VFA-25_Kosh
11-14-2005, 05:46 PM
I just noticed that PAUSING the game (single player mission) also restores the FPS with TIR STILL tracking.

Something frees up when the game is paused. Interesting.


Single mission, K-4 defend the Oder, gives me the fps drop pretty fast, is it all the clouds and turbulence??
Give it a try, lol.

VFA-25_Kosh
12-15-2005, 07:01 AM
For all those desperate and looking for a SOLUTION.
In order NOT to experience an FPS drop, RESTART IL2 every time you want to change a map.

The drop NEVER occurs on the first map of a freshly loaded game. As soon as the next map is loaded without restarting the game, the FPS drop begins to develop. I know it doesn't help the score keeping in Warclouds, but it maintains the FPS. Interesting dilemma, lol.

TooCooL34
12-15-2005, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by VFA-25_Kosh:
For all those desperate and looking for a SOLUTION.
In order NOT to experience an FPS drop, RESTART IL2 every time you want to change a map.

The drop NEVER occurs on the first map of a freshly loaded game. As soon as the next map is loaded without restarting the game, the FPS drop begins to develop. I know it doesn't help the score keeping in Warclouds, but it maintains the FPS. Interesting dilemma, lol.
That's exactly what I'm doing to walk around.
It's sad everytime new map loaded I gotta go out and reconnect.

Still, NP's looking at it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stubby
12-15-2005, 07:20 AM
Solution: Hatswitch or gerry rig a web camera. Then put your TiR gear on Ebay.

TooCooL34
12-15-2005, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by stubby:
Solution: Hatswitch or gerry rig a web camera. Then put your TiR gear on Ebay.
So, when my car(which holds some kind of monopoly) never go above 30mph from 2nd run in a day, should I sell my car and move onto bicycle? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Moreover, I won't sell flawed product to anyone else.

stubby
12-15-2005, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by TooCooL34:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
Solution: Hatswitch or gerry rig a web camera. Then put your TiR gear on Ebay.
So, when my car(which holds some kind of monopoly) never go above 30mph from 2nd run in a day, should I sell my car and move onto bicycle? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Moreover, I won't sell flawed product to anyone else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, a video game peripheral and a car are in the same league http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Since you won't sell your flawed public (I appluad your heroic stance), take the flawed product and beat it upon your head until your forget you wasted your money.

VFA-25_Kosh
12-20-2005, 05:11 AM
Good news from Natural Point.

Oleg located the problem in the game's code and it will be rectified by a patch in mid-January.

My hat off to the Natural Point crew.

DaimonSyrius
12-20-2005, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by VFA-25_Kosh:
Good news from Natural Point.

Oleg located the problem in the game's code and it will be rectified by a patch in mid-January.

My hat off to the Natural Point crew.

Excellent news !
Thanks for the heads-up Kosh, now we can start counting weeks in pairs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,
S.

OAC_Kosh
02-11-2006, 07:40 PM
Oh what a relief!

After over a year of torture the TrackIR bug has been fixed in 4.03m!

Thanks.